Seanad debates

Wednesday, 18 October 2017

10:30 am

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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The Order of Business is No. 1, statements on child care to be taken at 12.45 p.m. and to conclude no later than 1.45 p.m. with the time allocated to group spokespersons not to exceed eight minutes, Members may share time and the Minister to be given no less than five minutes to reply to the debate; No. 2, Private Members' business, Coroners (Amendment) Bill 2016 - Second Stage, to be taken at 1.45 p.m. with the time allocated to this business not to exceed two hours; No. 3, statements on flood prevention measures, to be taken at 3.45 p.m. and to conclude no later than 5.15 p.m. with the time allocated to group spokespersons not to exceed eight minutes and the time allocated to all other Senators not to exceed five minutes with the Minister to be given no less than five minutes to reply to the debate; and No. 4, Private Members' business, Civil Law (Missing Persons) Bill 2016 - Committee Stage, to be taken at 5.15 p.m. with the time allocated to this business not to exceed two hours.

Photo of Catherine ArdaghCatherine Ardagh (Fianna Fail)
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Yesterday was International Day for the Eradication of Poverty. Ireland has some of the most staggering poverty statistics with 59% of lone parent households currently experiencing severe deprivation. There are some 3,000 children living in emergency accommodation and lone parents continue to struggle to make ends meet on the one-parent family payment and family income supplement. It is shameful that in this day and age our children are the most vulnerable in our society and I call on the Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection to come to the House to outline exactly what she will do to rectify this. I would like to hear how this will be funded and the detailed plan for implementation and delivery of a strategy to eradicate poverty and deprivation our society.

The second issue I would like to raise is the floods yesterday and the dangers anticipated in respect of Storm Brian, which is on the way at the weekend. Currently, 130,000 customers are still without electricity. The ESB has been doing stellar work ensuring people are reconnected but there is a great deal more work to do. A total of 48,000 customers are without water while 110,000 customers are without telephone or broadband and other communications services. I heard on the radio earlier about people whose businesses have been damaged, especially fishermen in the south west and west whose lobster and crab pots have been destroyed. I look forward to the debate on flood protection measures later with the Minister of State at the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Kevin "Boxer" Moran but I also call on the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine to come to the House at some stage to outline what he will do to support fishermen along our coast.

Photo of Michael McDowellMichael McDowell (Independent)
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I draw the House's attention to the report of the Seanad Public Consultation Committee on children's mental health, which was launched earlier. In particular, I congratulate the members of the committee, including the Leas-Chathaoirleach who served as Chairman, and not least my colleague, Senator Joan Freeman, who was rapporteur of the committee, for all the hard work they put into focusing public attention on the issues raised so concisely and graphically in the report. This is an example of the important work that can be done by parliamentarians across the board on a non-party or cross-party basis to achieve progress on matters which concern minorities that are vulnerable in our society. I wanted to record my gratitude to the committee members for the hard work they put into it and I hope it will receive further consideration from the Government. We have had a number of debates on cognate issues in recent times, both legislative and on foot of motions, but the report should focus our minds on the matters it raises. The interesting aspect is that the basic framework for providing mental health services is still A Vision for Change. I pay tribute to my former Progressive Democrats colleague, Mr. Tim O'Malley, who as Minister of State piloted that programme through and took a fair amount of stick in doing so. He stuck with the project and he has always asked me never to let go of the vision set out in the document.

The report, and Senator Freeman's involvement, also underline the importance of co-operation in this House. Yesterday on the Order of Business, two Senators indicated that the group of which I am a member is not a group of Independents at all. The Chair ruled that this is a matter for the Committee on Procedure and Privileges and their gripe was not a matter for debate in the House. I fully accept that proposition but every member of the group to which I belong is absolutely free to vote in any direction or not to vote at all on any issue or to state what they believe one way or the other on any issue. They are wholly independent and nobody puts pressure on anybody else to support a particular position. There is no sense in which their independence of mind and their independence as legislators and as spokespersons on various issues is in any way affected by the fact that they are a member of the group. It is false to say they are not real Independents and to say that people who are not members of any group are more independent is equally false. The nub of the question is that to co-operate in this House and not to have a free-for-all where Members jump and down and demand to be heard, there are rules of order and procedure.The members of the Independent group in this House co-operate solely for the purpose of exercising their rights as Independent Members. For other Members of this House who have been in that group and who have left for reasons that have nothing to do with policy or-----

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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It should never be about personality.

Photo of Michael McDowellMichael McDowell (Independent)
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-----their independence - I will finish on this point - to say they are more independent than the people in my group is totally wrong.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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Senator-----

Photo of Michael McDowellMichael McDowell (Independent)
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May I finish? They are less effective because-----

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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We cannot question other Members' motives.

Photo of Michael McDowellMichael McDowell (Independent)
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-----they have refused to co-operate. When they come into this House and say they are the only real Independents here, they are misdescribing the situation. It must be put on the record-----

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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The Senator knows I cannot allow that. Senator, please.

Photo of Michael McDowellMichael McDowell (Independent)
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Since they describe themselves as real Independents, the suggestion being that others are phoney Independents-----

Photo of Michael McDowellMichael McDowell (Independent)
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If real independence means-----

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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No, we cannot comment on people who are absent.

Photo of Michael McDowellMichael McDowell (Independent)
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I certainly can.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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The Senator knows this better than the Chair.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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He has not named anyone just yet.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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Senator McDowell has gone past injury time at this stage.

Photo of Michael McDowellMichael McDowell (Independent)
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I do not want to get into comment on the fact that they are yet again absent.

(Interruptions).

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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That is very unfair.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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Order, please.

Photo of Michael McDowellMichael McDowell (Independent)
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If real independence-----

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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As Leader, I say Senator McDowell should withdraw the remark about their not being here.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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Senator McDowell is hogging the floor. He is out of order.

Photo of Michael McDowellMichael McDowell (Independent)
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If real independence-----

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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I am surprised at him.

Photo of Michael McDowellMichael McDowell (Independent)
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May I finish the sentence, please?

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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No, you may not.

Photo of Michael McDowellMichael McDowell (Independent)
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If real independence-----

Photo of Kieran O'DonnellKieran O'Donnell (Fine Gael)
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Name the person you want-----

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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Hold on. Order, please.

Photo of Michael McDowellMichael McDowell (Independent)
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If real independence-----

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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The Senator is destroying the nice, kind comments he made to us earlier, which are much appreciated, by the way, about the public consultation committee and the mental health services report, which is so important. I am sure the Leader, in his own time, will arrange a suitable debate with the Minister of State, Deputy Jim Daly.

Photo of Michael McDowellMichael McDowell (Independent)
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If real independence-----

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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I am done with independence. I will leave that to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges, CPP. Senator McDowell has made his point over and over again.

Photo of Michael McDowellMichael McDowell (Independent)
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May I finish my sentence before-----

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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Please, Senator.

Photo of Michael McDowellMichael McDowell (Independent)
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If real independence involves helplessness and ineffectuality, let them have it.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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I hope they will all vote for Seanad reform.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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Over and out.

Photo of Rose Conway WalshRose Conway Walsh (Sinn Fein)
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I commend the Leas-Chathaoirleach on his work as Chair of the Seanad Public Consultation Committee on children's mental health services, as well as Senator Freeman and all the other members of that committee on producing its report. I thank in particular the parents who were courageous enough to come forward to tell the committee about their experiences, which I think has informed the report in a very positive way. However, like A Vision for Change, it is all in the implementation and how effectively the recommendations within this report will be implemented. I look forward to a full discussion and debate on this in the Seanad in the near future.

Turning to the main business I wish to raise, I was glad to see that the Taoiseach attended several engagements in Derry last week and I welcome his comments about Brexit and the devastating consequences it will have on the Border communities and indeed the entire island of Ireland. I particularly welcome his focus on the internal strife in the Tory party. This is the Tory party that is advising my leader's party on how it should communicate. The shambolic attitude of the British Government to the Border-----

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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The one-page memo is out-----

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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Order, please. I call Senator Conway-Walsh, without interruption.

Photo of Rose Conway WalshRose Conway Walsh (Sinn Fein)
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Is that the one page that cost €5 million to put out?

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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Where is Sinn Féin's money coming from?

Photo of Rose Conway WalshRose Conway Walsh (Sinn Fein)
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I am talking about the Tories. Their attitude can be summed up as "we do not know and we do not care". However, I am concerned about the remarks the Taoiseach made about the Good Friday Agreement and the provision of a Border poll. The Taoiseach said he would be uncomfortable with a situation in which there was a vote of 50% plus one in favour of Irish unity but it is simply not up to him to decide. The agreement is explicit in recognising "the legitimacy of whatever choice is freely exercised by a majority of the people of Northern Ireland with regard to its status, whether they prefer to continue to support the Union with Great Britain or a sovereign united Ireland". The Good Friday Agreement is a legally binding international agreement. It was hard fought for and involved all democratic political parties in the North along with the two Governments and international partners. The Taoiseach cannot now cite the agreement when arguing against the excesses of Brexit and then cherry-pick the parts with which he is uncomfortable. In the same interview the Taoiseach rightly called for the extension of marriage equality to the North. If there were a referendum on this issue, would he accept a 50%-plus-one result? He also referred to the fact that the majority of the North voted to remain within the EU. Was this majority good enough for him in this case? The Good Friday Agreement contains many provisions that were unpalatable to republicans. In spite of this, Sinn Féin honoured and worked on all aspects of it. It is unacceptable now that the Taoiseach, as a representative of one of the co-guarantors of the Good Friday Agreement, should seek to undermine one of its core principles. It was not too long ago that the only contribution about the North from politicians and commentators in this jurisdiction was to quote the principle of consent ad nauseam. Now when the prospect of a united Ireland is raised they cite stability and getting everybody on board. The Taoiseach's comments have caused uncertainty and are really unhelpful. The Irish Government needs to defend the Good Friday Agreement in its entirety and work to achieve any outcome that is democratically expressed by the people.

Photo of Aodhán Ó RíordáinAodhán Ó Ríordáin (Labour)
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I wish to raise the recent ballot taken by special needs assistants, SNAs, to take industrial action. Of SNAs who voted, 97% voted in favour of industrial action because of the ongoing uncertainty caused by late allocation made by the Department of Education and Skills. This is particularly irritating to the SNAs because an Oireachtas education committee report started by me and then completed and published by the former Senator Mary Moran outlined quite a number of issues that SNAs are raising. We had quite an extensive consultation with SNAs themselves about the work practices and the uncertainty they face. Once again, the Department has failed to deal with the issues raised in that report, and this late allocation issue still undermines the certainty that special needs assistants feel in the workplace. A number of teacher unions are not signing up to the most recent pay agreement, the Union of Students in Ireland is taking to the streets over the proposal for a student loan scheme and now, another branch of our education work force is threatening industrial action. I therefore ask again for a debate on education matters in this House with the Minister at the earliest opportunity.

Another issue I would like to raise, if I may, on a cheerier note is the push for marriage equality in Northern Ireland and in Australia, which, as was said to President Higgins on his visit there, is the most Irish country in the world outside of Ireland. A postal survey on this issue is taking place in Australia at present. The final date for posting of those ballots is, I believe, 27 October. In order to raise awareness of the ongoing push for marriage equality in Northern Ireland and in Australia, a football match will take place this Sunday in Tolka Park at 2 p.m. between politicians and Dublin Devils Football Club, a gay men's football team. It is open to all to come along and cheer on whichever team they wish to cheer on. It is a fund-raiser for marriage equality in Northern Ireland and will also raise awareness among Australian citizens in Ireland who wish to post their ballots back. As we still celebrate the fact that we in this Republic were the first country in the world to vote openly for marriage equality, we have an opportunity and an obligation to do what we can for other jurisdictions, other parts of this country and other countries in the world. We must encourage them to do what they can to bring in marriage equality where they are.

Photo of John O'MahonyJohn O'Mahony (Fine Gael)
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I wish to raise a number of sporting issues. First, I welcome the announcement by the Olympic Council of Ireland yesterday of its termination of its deal with THG Sports, which was the ticket distributor that was in such controversy at the Olympic Games in Rio de Janeiro. It had done a deal with the former president, Pat Hickey, up to and including 2026.I compliment the newly-elected president of the Olympic Council of Ireland, OCI, Ms Sarah Keane, on the many difficulties she has dealt with since taking office. The new arrangement, announced yesterday, was brokered through mediation by former Supreme Court judge, Mr. Justice Finnegan, whom I also compliment. The agreement is confidential and we do not know if there was a financial settlement and so on. However, it is important that it is confirmed to both Houses by the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Ross, that no Government funding has been committed in respect of the financial settlement. In light of the progress that has been made by the Olympic Council of Ireland and the success of our athletes, it is important that athletes are not in any way impacted by the wrongdoings of others and that Government funding is restored. Perhaps the Leader will clarify the matter.

On a related matter, we were all caught up ten days ago with Ireland's fantastic win against Wales and subsequent qualification for the play-offs. Yesterday, Ireland was drawn against Denmark. It was interesting to note that within three minutes of the draw being made the cost of return flights from Copenhagen increased from €208 to more than €500. I know the market dictates and so on but I understand all flights are sold out. I call on the airline companies involved to put on additional flights at reasonable cost. I understand hotel prices in Denmark have also rocketed. We are not in control of that but we must do all we can to ensure loyal fans can attend the match.

Photo of Keith SwanickKeith Swanick (Fianna Fail)
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I congratulate all involved in the report on children's mental health, particularly the parents who bravely recounted their stories to the committee. Tomorrow, 19 October, marks the 18th anniversary of the release of the Guildford Four by the Court of Appeal in London. Their release in 1989 after 15 years imprisonment brought an end to what was considered one of the biggest miscarriages of justice.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Keith SwanickKeith Swanick (Fianna Fail)
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The Birmingham Six soon followed and the campaign for their freedom was vindicated. Due in part to their innocence, compelling evidence about prison conditions began to be discussed. The depiction by Daniel Day Lewis of Gerry Conlon in the film "In the Name of the Father" illustrated this for us all.

According to the Irish Penal Reform Trust there are 60 people currently in prison who are slopping out, without in-cell sanitation. There are approximately 3,750 people in prison custody, often in dangerously crowded cells. The work of the Irish Prison Service is very challenging and prison officers are routinely subjected to acts of barbarism against them. I witnessed this when I worked as a locum doctor in Mountjoy Prison, one of 14 institutions in the Irish Prison Service.

It is time for a frank debate about the Irish prison system, including the Dóchas Centre, Limerick, Portlaoise and Castlerea prisons, Loughan House and all the other institutions and the fact that the majority of Irish prisoners have never sat a State examination, over half of them left school before the age of 15 and the scandal of slopping out.

Photo of Victor BoyhanVictor Boyhan (Independent)
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It is a regular occasion for me to raise the issue of driving tests. This issue was the subject of a Commencement matter this morning.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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The matter has been discussed already.

Photo of Victor BoyhanVictor Boyhan (Independent)
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I am not happy and I ask that the Leader facilitate the presence in the House of the Minister, Deputy Ross, for a debate on the issue.

Photo of Marie Louise O'DonnellMarie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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On a point of order, the issue has been already discussed as a Commencement matter.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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I will handle the matter.

Photo of Marie Louise O'DonnellMarie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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I beg your pardon.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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Thank you, Senator.

Photo of Victor BoyhanVictor Boyhan (Independent)
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I am asking that the Minister-----

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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Is the Senator asking the Leader if he will arrange a debate on the matter?

Photo of Victor BoyhanVictor Boyhan (Independent)
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I am asking that the Minister, Deputy Ross, come to this House for a debate on the matter during which I can tease out the matter in greater detail.

Photo of Marie Louise O'DonnellMarie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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The Minister was in the House. I listened to him speak for 20 minutes on the monitor in my office.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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The Leader will respond in due course. I call Senator Noone.

Photo of Catherine NooneCatherine Noone (Fine Gael)
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With regard to the sugar tax, which I welcome, it is my understanding that the approximately €50 million per annum which it is estimated will be generated from this tax will not be ring-fenced, which I do not understand. As I have stated on numerous occasions, one in four Irish children and one in three adults are now deemed to be either overweight or obese. I do not propose to repeat the statistics which I have regularly offered the House in this regard. The Lancetstudy of 2010 found that the incidence of diabetes has also significantly increased. I had a briefing on the issue last week and I thank the Members who attended. I intend to provide pre-diabetes testing in January on an appointment basis so that people do not have to wait lengthy periods on the day for a test. There was a lot of interest in the previous round of testing. I have the permission of the Superintendent to hold another round of testing in the medical room in January.

On the last occasion, we heard presentations from Dr. Grace O'Malley from Temple Street hospital and Dr. Heneghan, a bariatric surgeon from St. Vincent's Hospital who also works in the obesity department in St. Columcille's Hospital. It was apparent to me from those presentations that we are not treating obesity like the disease it is. There is no other disease treated in this country in the manner in which obesity is treated. Notwithstanding that it is a preventible disease in many instances, once people have it, it is nonetheless a disease and there is no direct treatment programme for it across the health services. Senator Norris has referred to obesity as "fatness".

Photo of Catherine NooneCatherine Noone (Fine Gael)
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People who are obese are fat but obesity is still an illness and we must treat it as such. Obesity is at odds with any other disease when it comes to how we treat it. It is that type of attitude that highlights the difficulty in treating this area.

I find it incomprehensible that the Department of Finance does not intend to ring-fence moneys accruing from the sugar tax. Clearly, it is a costing issue and a finance issue as to the reason bariatric treatment cannot be provided to morbidly obese people. We heard a great deal of evidence in that regard. The plastic bag levy was implemented and the proceeds of it were used for environmental initiatives and something similar should be done in respect of this tax. This is a very important issue.

Photo of Fintan WarfieldFintan Warfield (Sinn Fein)
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Last night, the Seanad progressed legislation recognising the rights of the deaf community. It came to the attention of many of us after the debate -and to my attention online - that the Oireachtas could not facilitate access to the full broadcast of that debate. This opens up the wider conversation of why the Oireachtas and this Parliament does not face outwards and why broadcasts of the Oireachtas and Parliament cannot be accessed by all of our communities. The Irish Deaf Society thanked a Ms Catherine White who live-streamed a live interpretation of yesterday's proceedings on the Recognition of Irish Sign Language for the Deaf Community Bill 2016. It is hugely problematic and deeply upsetting that the deaf community could not access all debates relevant to their lives. I would welcome a comment from the Leader on what we can do in this Chamber to ensure that the Oireachtas broadcast of debates here is fully accessible and whether this is a matter for the Committee on Procedure and Privileges?

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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That is a matter for the broadcasting unit rather than the Leader. However, the Leader may respond.

Photo of Marie Louise O'DonnellMarie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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I would like to point out that I was not and do not question anybody's independence of thought. I am also not questioning the order and form generally outside of the bobbing up and down and the repetition. I am questioning the Order of Business and its form and regulation. I am requesting that those who-----

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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I understand the Senator has already written to the CPP about that. It will be dealt with.

Photo of Marie Louise O'DonnellMarie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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I know, but I just want to make myself clear. I took the Leas-Chathaoirleach's advice and wrote to the CPP about it. I feel that those who are not part of a group should be afforded the same time as others, on a first come, first served basis, rather than always being at the bottom of the queue.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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It will be dealt with by the CPP.

Photo of Marie Louise O'DonnellMarie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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I am not part of a group. I do not suggest a Senator in a group is not independent of thought, cognition or feeling, but if one is not in a group, one has to go to the bottom of a queue on the Order of Business.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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The Senator will notice that I took her because there was no one here from the Civil Engagement group.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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Big mistake. The Leas-Chathaoirleach should have taken me.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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Neither Senator Norris nor Senator Marie-Louise O'Donnell has ever had to wait at the bottom of the queue when I have been in the Chair.

Photo of Marie Louise O'DonnellMarie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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I know that and I thank the Leas-Chathaoirleach.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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I am sure that goes for the Cathaoirleach as well.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Marie Louise O'DonnellMarie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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Unlike Senator McDowell, I did not have the advantage of Jesuit training in thinking, nor did I gain the confidence the Jesuits have instilled in many people throughout Ireland. I am a Loreto girl and I understand a lack of balance.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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The Senator is well over time.

Photo of Marie Louise O'DonnellMarie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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I have experienced this as a woman and I would never question the independence of the Independent group. I am just questioning the format.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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I ask the Senator to wind up as she is well over time.

Photo of Marie Louise O'DonnellMarie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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I remind the Leader to call on the Minister for Rural and Community Development, Deputy Ring, to come into the House to give us an update on the German and Kiwi banking models for our post office system. There has been a report and it is a very important issue. I say to all Independents, "May you well sail in your ship".

Photo of Kieran O'DonnellKieran O'Donnell (Fine Gael)
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I wish to raise the fallout of Hurricane Ophelia and insurance for people. The media have suggested that house and car premiums may go up for ordinary citizens. Insurance companies cannot use Hurricane Ophelia as a back door to raising insurance premiums. They factor heavy loadings for storms and other impacts into the prices they charge, so they cannot rip people off because of Ophelia. They also have to reinsure people. Ophelia was completely unexpected and they cannot refuse to reinsure people. We should have a debate on this in order that insurance companies are given a warning that they cannot rip people off.

Photo of Kevin HumphreysKevin Humphreys (Labour)
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I wish to raise the issue of the thousands of people who have been affected by the tracker mortgages issue. In 2008, the Central Bank notified the lending institutions about treating their customers fairly in relation to tracker mortgages. It raised the issue again in 2009 and 2010 and its website refers to concerns following an examination of tracker mortgages. In October 2012, Bank of Ireland wrote to hundreds of customers stating, "as a valued mortgage customer, we want to share some interesting findings from research we carried out recently with homeowners, like you, who have a mortgage on a tracker rate". The data was gathered by RED C in August 2012 and the letter was sent to hundreds of Bank of Ireland customers. At the time, I sought the RED C survey and its first page stated why it had commissioned the survey and its objectives, which were to encourage people with tracker mortgages to move off their product, ultimately to improve the overall profitability of the Bank of Ireland group.

That is clearly what has happened. It is not new information and I raised it at the finance committee. It has now been close to ten years and many people have not yet got their money back but have lost their homes. The figure is a minimum of €63 million and it could be up to €500 million. Nobody is clear how much was defrauded from ordinary Irish citizens. On many occasions banks and other lending institutions lied through their teeth to committees. The Central Bank held informal discussions with An Garda Síochána in April and I would like the Leader to ask the Minister for Finance to clarify whether the Garda Síochána can start an investigation without a formal complaint. The Central Bank is not about to put in a formal complaint but, given the amount of evidence and the amount of fraud that has been carried out, I want to know why. If necessary, all parties in the House should come together on this issue as they have all raised the issue regularly.

Photo of Jennifer Murnane O'ConnorJennifer Murnane O'Connor (Fianna Fail)
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I wish to raise the national planning framework up to 2040. The last chance for submissions is 12 noon on Friday, 23 November. It is crucial for Senators, Deputies and the public to make submissions. The plan envisages that the number of people aged over 65 will more than double and half the jobs people work in now will not exist. There is a ten-year national investment plan and that is crucial. In County Carlow, we need proper transport and road infrastructure as well as links to Dublin, so we need investment, jobs and to work more with the IDA. There is a proposal for a national land development agency to work with local authorities and legislation for an independent office for planning regulation, so every local authority and citizen should make a submission to this plan.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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In the discussion yesterday on the Recognition of Irish Sign Language for the Deaf Community Bill 2016, I said I had been advised by the Bills Office to withdraw amendments but I would like to correct that statement. It was actually the people who tabled the amendments who asked me to withdraw mine, and so I did.

On the question of independence, I am fully independent but Senator McDowell orchestrated my exit from the group of independent university Senators, which I founded 30 years ago with former Senator Joe O'Toole. Senator McDowell brought rejects from Fianna Fáil and Government nominees into his group so how independent is that?

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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We should not get into that. The independence of Senator Norris was never questioned.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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I am not sure how many parties Senator McDowell has been in during his career. I suppose that when one founds the Progressive Democrats and they collapse, it projects one, willy-nilly, into a form of independence. I have not been held back on the Order of Business and have been allowed to introduce legislation. I am a completely independent Independent. Senator McDowell graciously referred to my absence from the House but he is a little bit new to the House and does not realise that one does not refer to the absence of another Member. I gather he was told this but, for his information, I play a full and active role in this House. I had a Commencement matter today and went from that matter, which I shared with Senator Buttimer, to a briefing about the Canadian trade association.I was fulfilling my parliamentary-----

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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You certainly are.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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I certainly am an independent Independent. I question the independence of the Independent Group but I do wish them well.

Photo of Maria ByrneMaria Byrne (Fine Gael)
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I wish to speak about two initiatives to do with education. One is the announcement on Monday by the Minister, Deputy Richard Bruton, and the Minister of State, Deputy Mary Mitchell-O'Connor, of a €20 million investment in Limerick Institute of Technology in terms of STEM. It is an investment in a science and IT building that is much needed and will facilitate between 600 and 1,000 students. It will be built by 2021. This is a very welcome addition to the campus.

The other issue I wish to raise is the swimming pool on the grounds of the University of Limerick. It is the only Olympic-sized pool in Ireland. There is a currently a problem with its floor and all competitions, for Munster and Ireland, have been cancelled for the foreseeable future. Replacing the part in question will cost €20,000 and they also have to replace 11 other parts, which will cost huge money. I ask the Leader to ask the Minister of State with responsibility for sport to intervene and to see if he can come up with funding for the floor to be fixed so the pool can be put back into working order as soon as possible.

Photo of Gerard CraughwellGerard Craughwell (Independent)
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When I came to this House in 2014, I had a steep learning curve.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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Is the Senator gone off it now?

Photo of Gerard CraughwellGerard Craughwell (Independent)
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Certainly not.

Photo of Rónán MullenRónán Mullen (Independent)
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I thought Senator Craughwell was looking for nominations for the councils.

Photo of Gerard CraughwellGerard Craughwell (Independent)
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Good people like the Leas-Chathaoirleach steered me in the right direction. I was rather shocked to hear this morning's discussion about speaking time, membership groups and so on. One learns very quickly in this House to be a member of a group or to sit in the gods up there.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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The Senator can imagine how the Chair felt. That is a matter for the Committee on Procedure and Privileges, as I have said ad nauseam.

Photo of Gerard CraughwellGerard Craughwell (Independent)
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Of course it is. I really respect the Leas-Chathaoirleach's ruling on this because he has always acted based on the rules of the House and allowed those of us who are Independent in groups to be treated as group members similar to our colleagues in political parties, whom I deeply respect. I also respect my colleagues who are Independents and have decided not to join a group for technical purposes.

Photo of Marie Louise O'DonnellMarie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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Independent Independents.

Photo of Gerard CraughwellGerard Craughwell (Independent)
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I recognise their right to remain outside a group but, alas and alack, when we make a decision, we must live by the rules.

Photo of Marie Louise O'DonnellMarie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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The Senator sounds like the badger in The Wind in the Willows.

Photo of Gerard CraughwellGerard Craughwell (Independent)
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I have sat here on one occasion for two and a half hours of a debate and, as I got to my feet, I was told, "Sorry, Senator, we are out of time". Such is the price one pays for being an Independent without the support of colleagues. We in the Independent Group are truly independent. We do not really have a Whip and we never agree on anything.

Photo of Marie Louise O'DonnellMarie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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He does; he pays a Whip.

Photo of Gerard CraughwellGerard Craughwell (Independent)
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It is purely a technical issue.

Photo of Marie Louise O'DonnellMarie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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What is he talking about?

Photo of Frank FeighanFrank Feighan (Fine Gael)
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In reply to Senator Craughwell, I think he is the only Independent Member of this House ever to have been elected by the Government party. In the by-election in 2014, more Fine Gael members voted for Senator Craughwell than voted for our own candidate. I wish him well in his future endeavours.

We were in Liverpool for the 55th plenary of the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly. Without doubt, this is one of the most important assemblies. It brings politicians from North and South and from Wales, Scotland, England and the Crown Dependencies. We talked about very serious issues such as Brexit and co-operation. I said that when they voted for Brexit in their referendum, the British people never thought about the island of Ireland. Effectively, the British people have shot themselves in our foot. The Border and the island of Ireland will be the Achilles heel of any deal that is done in Ireland, the UK or Europe. It is a huge issue and I do not know how we can get around it. We are losing great allies in Europe.

At the assembly were Chloe Smith MP and Robin Walker MP from the Conservative Party, and Councillor Malcolm Kennedy from Liverpool. He stated that Liverpool was probably the most sectarian city in the islands but in the 1960s, for some reason, they got over it. It was a dead-pan delivery but it was a great reflection on the people of Liverpool. They had Orange marches and nationalist marches and there were huge tensions and riots. Today, although that past is commemorated, they do not have the same violence that went on before.

We also had Eoin O'Neill, the president of the British Irish Chamber of Commerce, and Professor Peter Shirlow, director of the Institute of Irish Studies in Liverpool university. We had a debate about a Border poll and 50 plus one. I think Professor Shirlow is going to share the results of his study with us. They will not make good reading for all of us who want to unite the people of Ireland and want one Ireland. They suggest that a Border poll would be defeated. If we get the details, we should bring the matter to this House to debate it. It was a very detailed survey. I would be concerned that a Border poll could be counterproductive, although people have every right to call for it. Most people at the assembly were alarmed by the results of the study. They could be eye-opening.

Photo of Rónán MullenRónán Mullen (Independent)
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It is horrible to think that among the many people who travel to countries like the Philippines, Thailand and various countries in eastern Asia are Irish sex abusers. It is time that we heeded the call of Nobel Prize nominee and Columban priest, Fr. Shay Cullen. I am sure most of us are aware of him and his great work. He is calling for legislation to allow the passports of convicted sex offenders to be revoked to prevent them from perpetrating their evil activity abroad. He has pointed to cases in which people who faced charges in their home countries for sex abuse were able to travel to the Philippines, where they perpetrated further evil. He speaks with real authority, as the founder and director of Preda, a charity that works to rescue children from child abuse in the Philippines and to prevent this evil from occurring in the first place by targeting abusers and seeking to bring them to justice. Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan has been working with Fr. Cullen and I believe legislation will soon be unveiled that will impose travel limitations on Irish citizens who have been convicted of a sex crime. One can debate whether the requirement would be that they were convicted of a sex crime against a child or of sex crimes generally. However, the principle is a good one and I would like to hear from the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade what position the Government will take on this legislation.

I apologise if this issue has already been raised in the House. Maybe the Leader has already responded to it, but I certainly think it is an issue we should discuss with the Minister, Deputy Coveney in the House. It is vital that we support and debate it. I do not believe there would be a constitutional obstacle here but, even if there were, it could be rectified by putting the appropriate question to the people if necessary. That seems to be increasingly common these days anyway. Earlier this year, Australia became the first country worldwide to introduce legislation of this kind. We know that Britain has official counter-terror orders that can restrict overseas travel for certain people. We are not dealing with something that is absolutely without precedent but we are dealing with the best case for restricting people's travel. The purpose is to prevent them from going abroad and using, among other things, their disproportionate wealth - although that is only a factor in this evil - to abuse children. Ireland should take a lead on this and it would be great if the Seanad took a lead on it.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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I thank the 18 Senators who contributed to the Order of Business. I will begin with the remarks of Senator Ardagh. I am hopeful that the Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection will be coming before the House soon.As the Senator knows, the Minister is very committed to eradicating poverty from our society. From the perspective of the Minister and the Government, the most important way to eradicate poverty is to create jobs and to give people an income, be they single parents, lone parents or families. This is why it is important to recognise that under the current Government and its predecessor, the number of people in work has increased. It is also about breaking down barriers that are preventing people from getting a fair chance. This is what the Government is about; creating a just and fair republic of opportunity for all our citizens. Senator Ardagh is aware that the Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection, Deputy Regina Doherty, has previously stated that tackling child poverty is a key goal of her tenure in the Department. We all accept that a disproportionate number of people are affected by poverty. The Senator made reference to child poverty today and it is an area where we need to see a continuation of the work of the Government. A whole-of-government approach is required. As Senator Ardagh knows, 2015 was the first year since 2008 that Ireland saw a reduction in the number of children who are in consistent poverty. When compared with 2014, in 2015 there was a 13,000 or approximately 9% decrease in the number of children in consistent poverty. We all accept the figure is still too high. When the figures for 2016-17 are published, they will show that there has been a significant movement of people out of poverty. It is important that we invest in all children, whatever part of society they come from. This is why the previous Government created a Minister for Children and Youth Affairs at Cabinet. It is why we are committed to breaking the cycle of poverty as per the European Commission report. I very much look forward to working with all Members of the House in tackling the issue of poverty, and especially childhood poverty.

Many Senators, yesterday and today, raised issues in respect of Storm Ophelia. I join Senator Ardagh in commending the crews of the ESB who, in very rough, difficult terrain and in very difficult circumstances, have reconnected many places that lost power during the storm. I believe that as of 8 a.m. this morning, approximately 70% of those who lost power had their electricity supply restored. Some people remain without power and it will take time. I appeal to people's patience with regard to the restoration of power to homes and premises.

Senators Ardagh and Kieran O'Donnell made reference to insurance companies. It is important that the insurance companies work with people to ensure they are not ripped off. They are, and they should not be allowed to rip off people who are at their most vulnerable following the storm. I join with the Senators' sentiments in that regard.

I would be very happy to have the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy Creed, come to the House to discuss the issues of fisheries. As Senators have rightly said, many of the fishermen who fish off our coasts have been affected most severely by Storm Ophelia. I would be happy to have that debate after the storm review by the Government. I also mentioned a review yesterday with regard to Senator Craughwell and the Minister of State with responsibility for Defence, Deputy Kehoe. I would be happy to have that debate.

Senator McDowell paid tribute to the Leas-Chathaoirleach in his role as Chairman of the Seanad Public Consultation Committee, and to Senator Freeman, on the publication of the report of the Seanad Public Consultation Committee on children's' mental health services. I was pleased to be part of the committee and to be at the launch today. In his contribution Senator McDowell spoke of the importance of cross-party consensus and about not being just political. We should not be political in the Seanad Public Consultation Committee. We should work together to benefit the young children, in this case. In his speech at the launch this morning the Leas-Chathaoirleach's remarks were apt, especially when he spoke about the humbling experience of listening to the testimony of the parents involved. It was a very harrowing but important part of the work done by the committee. I compliment the Leas-Chathaoirleach on his steering of the committee and for his Chairmanship. It is about achieving consensus and Senator McDowell was right to reference a previous Minister, Tim O'Malley. If we consider A Vision for Change, in one sense it still stands as the bible or the blueprint for how we can go forward. This requires, as the report states and to which the Minister of State, Deputy Jim Daly, is committed, investment in community facilities and community outreach in order that we can have people living in the community among us as part of their families. It is also about changing the mindset and breaking down the barriers around mental health. The report has many fine recommendations but it requires a whole-of-Government approach and a whole-of-agency approach with joined up thinking, which perhaps we have not seen. This is why the Seanad Public Consultation Committee, Oireachtas committees or Senator Marie-Louise McDonnell's very fine piece of work on end-of-life care challenge the norm and challenge the perceptions of officialdom. We must continue to push the mindsets to bring change that can benefit all our citizens. I commend Senator Freeman and the Leas-Chathaoirleach on the work that was done on the report launched today. I very much look forward to that all-party approach continuing in the area of mental health. It is through consensus that we can achieve better results and outcomes.

Senator Conway-Walsh spoke about how good it was to see the Taoiseach attending engagements in Derry. Senators Conway-Walsh and Feighan made reference to the Border poll. As a co-guarantor, the Government is committed to the Good Friday Agreement. We must all take cognisance of Senator Feighan's remarks. Those of us who want to see a united Ireland must recognise that it cannot happen in one dimension, it has to take time. Perhaps this will require a change of mindsets by everybody. I was disappointed to see in the newspapers this morning and in the news last night that it would appear the DUP and Sinn Féin are not close to agreement on going back into government in the North of our country, where I believe we should have a government especially when we are entering into a very critical phase of the Brexit negotiations. The citizens of our country, North and South, require a government to be a party to these negotiations and to advocate on their behalf. These are the people who elected Sinn Féin to go into Stormont to work on their behalf. Senator Feighan's words this morning were important as they related to the outcome. None of us want to have a rushed outcome or the wrong result - if I can use that phrase. Others have a different viewpoint to me; I am only giving a personal viewpoint. It needs to be done by consensus and by working with people. The best way to demonstrate the ability to do that is for the parties to go back into government in the North. Senator Conway-Walsh may take that back to her party leadership, if they are serious about going into government in the North.

Senator Aodhán Ó Ríordáin made reference to special needs assistants. I spoke about this issue yesterday as it was raised in the Order of Business. In the budget allocation the Government has announced 1,090 new special needs assistant posts. This brings to nearly 3,000 the number of positions that the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Bruton, has created. It is a source of worry and discontent that the vote was taken last weekend. As a teacher myself, the model of distribution of special needs assistants is based upon the needs of students and the whole school cohort. I accept that perhaps there could be a more timely resolution to the outcome with regard to the allocations of SNAs for the school year ahead. It is important that a model of delivery for SNA allocations to schools could be done earlier rather than later. I accept the frustration that many special needs assistants face but the Minister, Deputy Bruton is ensuring that we have a model that delivers for the pupil who needs the special needs assistant.

I join Senator Ó Ríordáin in welcoming the fundraising event to be held next Sunday for marriage equality in the North. An important game of football will be held. I will not be able to go unfortunately as I will be at the opening of Páirc Uí Chaoimh. I wish all those involved in the fundraiser well. The Senator spoke of Australia. It is wonderful that we have an Irishman, Mr. Tiernan Brady, leading the Australian marriage equality campaign and working with the Australian people on that.

Photo of Lorraine Clifford LeeLorraine Clifford Lee (Fianna Fail)
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A Fianna Fáil candidate.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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That is the cross he has to carry in life.

Photo of Frank FeighanFrank Feighan (Fine Gael)
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And he is from our constituency.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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It is, however, important that he does bring that vote home. It is a pity the Fianna Fáil party did not join with him in the marriage equality referendum when it happened in Ireland-----

Photo of Lorraine Clifford LeeLorraine Clifford Lee (Fianna Fail)
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That is the lie that Senator Buttimer likes to make.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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Order please Senators.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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-----because there was only a few-----

Photo of Lorraine Clifford LeeLorraine Clifford Lee (Fianna Fail)
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We all did plenty-----

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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Only a few of them went out campaigning.

Photo of Lorraine Clifford LeeLorraine Clifford Lee (Fianna Fail)
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Our leader was actually to the forefront of the marriage equality campaign. I do not believe that the then Taoiseach, Deputy Enda Kenny, was anywhere to be seen on that campaign.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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Order please. Allow the Leader to respond please.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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I congratulate Senator Clifford-Lee on her performance last Saturday night. It was good to see her up on the stage, but she can come off that stage now. The reality was that the Fianna Fáil Party-----

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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We are in this House now Leader.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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-----did not do a lot in the marriage equality referendum. I can tell her that.

Photo of Lorraine Clifford LeeLorraine Clifford Lee (Fianna Fail)
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We will come off the stage and get the seats Jerry, do not worry about that.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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Senator O'Mahony raised some very important issues in sport. On the matter of ticketing and the Olympic Council of Ireland, OCI, I join with the Senator in welcoming the severing of that link. I praise the new president of the OCI for the stellar work that is being done on behalf of the OCI. On the Senator's other point, we once again witnessed the age-old chestnut of price-gouging by airline companies in respect of flights immediately after the announcement of the date of the Denmark match. That is deplorable and unacceptable. I call on all the airlines to ensure that extra flights are put on. They are discommoding Irish people who want to travel and who will support them in other ventures and in other ways. It is unfair that they are making more profit on the backs of people who want to support our national team. Senator O'Mahony's point is well made.

Senator Swanick referred to issues relating to Irish prisons and the anniversary of the release of the Guildford Four. We all remember the days when people were wrongly incarcerated and we welcome their acquittal. On the point the Senator made in terms of investment in the Irish Prison Service, I remind him that the previous Government, when there was no money in the country, opened a new prison in Cork. In the context of the recent budget, the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Flanagan, was able to secure additional funds of €157 million for capital investment in the Prison Service. Of this, €120 million will be used to modernise Limerick Prison. Capital funding allowing for the improvement of facilities in Portlaoise Prison, Shelton Abbey, Loughan House, the Dóchas Centre, Cloverhill Prison and Wheatfield Prison will also be provided. In tandem with that, this funding will ensure that the master plan for Mountjoy Prison will be brought to fruition.

We all agree with the Senator on the need for education in prisons in order that people who are incarcerated have the opportunity to educate themselves or to be educated. As a former director of adult education, I worked with the Prison Service to bring certain courses to Cork Prison. Education is of benefit to the prisoner. We all welcome that. We equally welcome the fact that there has been capital investment to end the practice of slopping out, which we all agree is inhumane and should not be allowed to continue.

On Senator Boyhan's point, I would be happy to have the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Ross, come to the House. The Senator spoke on a Commencement matter this morning in respect of the situation regarding driving tests. This is a very serious issue which is having a profound impact on many young people in particular. The Minister of State, Deputy Brendan Griffin, gave the Senator a comprehensive reply earlier. I will not go back through it but this is a matter which requires urgent attention and I will be happy to have the Minister come the House in that regard.

Senator Noone raised the issue of diabetes. She has been very strong in her advocacy regarding obesity and the sugar tax. What she did last week was of huge importance in the promotion of the need for healthy lifestyles. I will try to have the Minister of State at the Department of Health, Deputy Catherine Byrne, come to the House in the coming weeks.

Senator Warfield raised the issue of the deaf community. It was a very profound day yesterday when the Recognition of Irish Sign Language for the Deaf Community Bill 2016 was passed by the Seanad. As Leader of the House and on behalf of the Fine Gael group, I was very pleased that the Government of which we are members played its role in ensuring that the Bill passed through the House. I commend all Members of the House for their work in support of the Bill. It was a very important day. The remarks the Senator made are really a matter for the broadcasting section, but I would be happy to raise it at the Committee on Procedure and Privileges on the Senator's behalf. We might have a conversation about that before next week's meeting. It is an important issue. Members of the deaf community should be able to access all services across the Houses. That is important.

Senators Marie-Louise O'Donnell, McDowell, Craughwell and Norris all mentioned the independence of Independent Members. All I can say to those on the Independent benches who are feeling very aggrieved is that I have membership cards for the Fine Gael Party. Senator McDowell can come home, he is more than welcome and we would love to have him back. Senator Craughwell was also a member of the party at one time. He can also come back and is more than welcome. Senators Mullen and Boyhan are welcome.

Photo of Aodhán Ó RíordáinAodhán Ó Ríordáin (Labour)
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Can we have a saucer of milk for the Leader?

Photo of Michael McDowellMichael McDowell (Independent)
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Senator Marie-Louise O'Donnell is in the party.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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I am not sure if Senator Lawless is still a card-carrying member but he is welcome back.

Photo of Aodhán Ó RíordáinAodhán Ó Ríordáin (Labour)
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Were they trustworthy?

Photo of Michael McDowellMichael McDowell (Independent)
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Senator Marie Louise O'Donnell is in the party.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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Senator Marie-Louise O'Donnell knows that she is welcome. There is a special place for her here.

Photo of Michael McDowellMichael McDowell (Independent)
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She is a card-carrying member.

Photo of Aodhán Ó RíordáinAodhán Ó Ríordáin (Labour)
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Did the Leader trust them?

Photo of Rónán MullenRónán Mullen (Independent)
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Would Fine Gael allow free votes?

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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Senator Ó Ríordáin is really a Fine Gaeler at heart.

Photo of Aodhán Ó RíordáinAodhán Ó Ríordáin (Labour)
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That is one thing I am not. I am only a Blueshirt when it comes to the Dubs.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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Senator Ó Ríordáin could be a Fine Gaeler of the "just society" persuasion.

It is important to recognise the Loreto girl who did her school proud this morning in rallying the cause, whether she had Jesuit training or not. The issue of post offices is one to which we need to return because it is very pressing in nature. I would be happy to have the Minister for Rural and Community Development, Deputy Ring, come before the House to discuss that matter. Senator Marie-Louise O'Donnell raised the issue previously. I will defer to the Leas-Chathaoirleach in respect of the ruling about the independence of Independent Members.

Senator Kieran O'Donnell referred to insurance. Senator Humphreys raised the issue of tracker mortgages. He is absolutely correct. I would be very interested to hear of the outcome of the meeting of the Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Reform and Taoiseach this week. The banks have ripped people off in this regard and the Senator is absolutely correct in that it is about profitability. The Taoiseach has made the point repeatedly, as has the Minister for Finance, Deputy Donohoe, that the banks must allow people to be given redress and compensation. It is important that we have that debate again. I will endeavour to have the Minister come to the House but the matter is before the Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Reform and Taoiseach, so I might let it finish its work before I invite the Minister to the House.

Senator Murnane-O'Connor spoke about the national planning framework, Ireland 2040 - Our Plan. It is a very important plan and the Senator is correct that all members of society should engage with it before the closing date for submissions.

Senator Byrne referenced two issues relating to third-level institutions in Limerick. I join her in welcoming the 11 projects announced this week by the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Bruton, and the Minister of State at his Department, Deputy Mitchell O'Connor. The investment of more than €200 million in capital projects in our institutes of technology is to be welcomed.

Photo of Maria ByrneMaria Byrne (Fine Gael)
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I also mentioned the swimming pool.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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In terms of the swimming pool issue, the Senator might get a reply more quickly by means of a Commencement matter. It might be better for her to table such a matter but I will also take it up with the Minister on the Senator's behalf.

On Senator Feighan's point, I commend the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly on its work. I know the Leas-Chathaoirleach is a member. It is a very important committee. On the remarks of the Senator and of Senator Conway-Walsh, we had a debate last week on Northern Ireland with the Minister, Deputy Coveney, but it is an issue which we may need to debate further and I will be happy to try to facilitate that.

Senator Mullen raised the issue of restricting travel for those known to be sex offenders. That is an issue on which we should listen to the voice of Fr. Shay Cullen, who has been a champion of the rights of victims. We must take note of anything he says. There is merit in his suggestion, which the Senator put forward this morning, and I would be happy to have the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Coveney, come to the House in that regard. I am not sure what is the Government's response to the Senator's point. I have not seen anything on the issue in terms of communication from Government, but it is a debate which we need to have, while having regard to the constitutionality of any proposed measures. Anything which can be done to prevent offences being perpetrated on vulnerable young people should be considered. There can be no place in society for evil. We should certainly take note of what Fr. Cullen has suggested.

Order of Business agreed to.