Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Cathaoirleach for selecting this Fianna Fáil Commencement Matter. We had asked for the Minister for Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government, Deputy Coveney, to come to the House, but I thank the Minister for State, Deputy English, for coming in. We had asked that the Minister would outline what he is doing, or what he is going to do, to improve the terms and conditions for our local authority members. The number of local authority areas has gone from 114 to 31. There are now 678 fewer local authority members, with the loss of town councillors and the reduction in some counties of county councillors. We now only have 949 local authority members, which is one of the worst voter to local authority member ratios anywhere in Europe.

I wish to share time with my colleagues who have come in to support this matter.

Robbie Gallagher (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy English, to the House. As Senator Daly has outlined, this issue has been floating around for a while, and some would say for too long. I appeal to the Minister of State, and the Minister to grasp the nettle. We have all recognised that the workload and travel has increased significantly for councillors. Effectively it has become a full-time job. Unless we look after these hard-working councillors, who we are very fortunate to have, we will find it very difficult to get anybody to enter local government. It is time the issue was dealt with. It is the least they deserve. I acknowledge the support from councillors and from Senators in this House on this matter. I also acknowledge the work done by the Association of Irish Local Government and the Local Authority Members Association in trying to push this forward. I ask the Minster of State that this issue be addressed once and for all.

Aidan Davitt (Fianna Fail)
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Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit. This insult to councillors, which is the only way I can describe it, has gone on long enough. There is never a wrong time to do the right thing. I feel strongly about this. I call on the Minister of State to see that the Government stops playing with councillors. We are getting drip feeds in the newspapers every couple of months about expenses and we hear the words, "If I was in power" and "What I would do if I was in charge" said but the time for those games is gone. Half of the councillors rely on this as their sole wage. It is below the minimum wage.I implore the Minister of State to draw a line in the sand on this and improve their pay and conditions. I am delighted to be able to support my fellow Senators. We have been working hard on this with the AILG and LAMA, no more than the Leas-Chathaoirleach, and we would really appreciate the Minister of State grabbing this nettle. We want to see some dividends.

Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Senators for raising this issue as it is an extremely important area of work and I am glad we have a chance to discuss it today. It certainly reflects the views of the councillors the Minister, Deputy Coveney, and I have met at various meetings in recent months with regard to Rebuilding Ireland and on other occasions. Very strong views were expressed. The Minister, Deputy Coveney, had hoped to be here and apologises he could not make it. He is chairing at a meeting on Ireland 2040 and could not leave it in time to get here. He wants to be part of this discussion and recognises the importance of dealing with the matter and has made commitments to do so. It is something which he holds very close to his heart.

Effective local government structures are an essential part of our democracy. In turn, effective local government cannot be achieved without the hard work and commitment of elected members who give of their own time in service to their community. As has been said this morning, for many it has become a full-time job because it is so busy. Many people dedicated their lives to it. A range of financial supports is already in place to assist councillors in their vital work. These include a representational payment, fixed annual expenses allowances, travel and subsistence allowances, a mobile phone allowance, a retirement gratuity and conference and training provisions.

The reforms introduced by the previous Government in 2014 addressed widely acknowledged weaknesses in the previous system, including the problems of divided administration between town and county authorities for key functions. Under the new municipal district system there is full integration of local authority resources across each county and elimination of duplication both in administrative and electoral terms.

As part of an operational review of the local government reforms, the Department conducted a survey last year of elected members, with the support of the Association of Irish Local Government. More than 500 elected members participated in the survey. The results indicate the revised structures are generally operating well but will need more time to bed down fully. Particular concerns were expressed, however, about increased work demands and the increased size of electoral areas. Apart from the submissions, we have also heard this in conversations with Senators and councillors throughout the country and it is a given at this stage. In this regard, A Programme for a Partnership Government includes a commitment to review the supports provided to councillors, in consultation with representative bodies, to enable councillors to continue their important and valued work.

Shortly after assuming office, the Minister, Deputy Coveney, met representatives of the Association of Irish Local Government and the Local Authority Members Association. The Minister has since attended the autumn seminars of both associations and is aware there is a strong view among the membership that positive consideration be given to their proposals for improvement in the range of supports available. The Minister intends to give further consideration to the issue, in consultation with the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, and to reach a conclusion as soon as possible in the context of wider public service pay policy and taking all relevant factors into account.

I wish to take the opportunity to refer to proposed amendments in the area of social welfare benefits. Section 10 of the Social Welfare Bill, which is before Seanad Éireann, provides that elected members will, in future, be brought into social insurance cover as self-employed people, in so far as entitlement to the wider range of benefits is concerned. This is an improvement on the current situation whereby elected members pay 4% PRSI but no benefits accrue from these contributions. I again thank the Senators for raising the matter. The Minister intends to, and will, give careful consideration to the issues raised by the representative associations and individual councillors and reach a conclusion in this regard in the very near future.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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All we had outlined was what the Minister, Deputy Varadkar, has done. What we did not get is what the Minister, Deputy Coveney, will do, other than that he will look at the matter. We had a similar response yesterday on votes for the Irish overseas. The Minister is looking at a lot of things but he does not seem to be getting around to making a decision on anything. AILG and LAMA have made these proposals. The Minister, Deputy Varadkar, has acted under the Social Welfare Bill, as is his prerogative and right, but the Minister, Deputy Coveney, has failed to act and apparently has not spoken to and has not sought anything from the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, which is the process in the Government.

What we are hearing again is the Minister might do something soon, but he has not actually come to any conclusion and has not even spoken to the Minister of Public Expenditure and Reform to ask for anything on behalf of local authority members. We will lose local authority members throughout the country as they will not seek re-election because the workload has increased. In some cases, their areas are now as big as what used to be three seat Dáil constituencies. Their responsibilities have also increased because there are no longer town councillors to share the workload in some areas.

What we clearly see here is the Minister, Deputy Varadkar, has done something, which is welcome, on the PRSI issue, but we will be back here next year asking the Minister, Deputy Coveney, whether he has met the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform and the councillors' groups, AILG and LAMA, and whether he has decided to do anything other than continue to look at the issue. I heard he might do something in June 2017. This simply is not good enough. It is not acceptable.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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The Senator has made his point.

Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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The Senator seems to be hearing a lot of things but I ask him to listen to what I am saying. There is a very clear commitment from the Minister, Deputy Coveney, to deal with this. He said this very clearly and I am repeating it here today. He recognises the difficulty and wants to put the issue to bed, which we will do in the very near future. He is committed to dealing with the issue. To say he has not had discussions or meetings is factually incorrect. I have attended meetings with him and had discussions with him. I assure the Senator, factually from the horses mouth, that he is working on it.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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I know but he is unable to make a decision.

Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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I would rather if the Senator did not make up-----

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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All we hear is "soon".

Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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I want to be clear with the Senator. I would rather he did not make up stuff. I am telling him the Minister is working on it. I have been there with him at the meetings. He is working on it and it will be resolved very soon.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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Is there a time line on "soon"?