Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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I welcome the Minister to the House. This is a very important Bill. In her very fine address, the Minister evoked the memory of the late Veronica Guerin whose story demonstrated the need to create the Criminal Assets Bureau, CAB. It is important when looking at CAB, crime and assets that we remember the work of Barry Galvin in that time. As the Minister said in her speech, the model is one that is now used across the world. We must ensure, arising from the Bill, that gangland crime is not condoned or accepted in any shape or form. The glamorisation of gangland crime on television forms in the impressionable minds of some an aspiration in the way television programmes about the Mafia did in the past. The reality on the ground is that people die and lives are ruined. People are affected. It is not like television where one can switch it off or change the channel. This is real life and it has implications and an import for people's lives. This morning, someone was seriously injured on foot of whatever motivation. People are killed. It is critical that we resource gardaí and work with the Commissioner in the delivery of policing. That is why it is important that those in organised crime are hunted down and brought before the courts and that their assets are taken from them.

The Minister has been very proactive in her response and is on the side of the person in the community whether, as I said on the Order of Business, he or she is in north County Dublin, south Dublin, Cork city or whatever other part of the country. The Minister referred in her speech to CAB's powers and we need to ensure the lacuna there is addressed. As we move towards the budgetary Estimate in the autumn, it is clear to many of us that if we are to deliver a new type of policing, the Garda must be provided not only with the physical human resource of increased gardaí but also new equipment and that we must also address issues around pay and conditions. As such, the Minister has been pioneering and instrumental in the last Dáil and Seanad in seeking to recruit more gardaí and to reopen Templemore and in placing a greater emphasis on the need for properly resourced patrol cars. It is important we ensure the work of gardaí is supported and that we pay tribute to them on the huge amount of work they do. They put their lives at risk. Those of us who serve on policing forums nationally recognise the availability and decency of gardaí. We can never concede to the men of violence who operate in some parts of our country. They have no place in our society, represent a minority and it is time we stood up to them. I heard some people speak today about witness intimidation. We cannot allow that to continue and should also be on the side of those who stand for law and order.

Paul Daly (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Minister and congratulate her on her appointment as Tánaiste. I welcome the swift process by which she has brought the Bill before the House. It is unfortunate that we need to enact this in the general social context and it is unfortunate that the situation is unchanged after 20 years and that the original Act is unfit for purpose. Hence, the need for changes. My party colleagues and I welcome the changes but I would like to set out some caveats. I listened to the debate today with interest, as a Senator from a rural area. While we have a serious problem in parts of our cities with gangland crime, there has been no mention of rural Ireland. The saying is that from the smallest acorn grows the largest oak tree. It is very important that we have the resources in place to enforce the new legislation in rural areas and in our rural communities. Gangs like the ones we see operating in the city centre are in their infancy in rural Ireland and it is there that we need to act almost as stringently. We find ourselves fire-fighting in the city currently as things have got ahead of us. Hence, the need for rushed legislation. Prevention is far better than cure, as the saying goes, and we need to have the Garda resources and personnel to enforce the amended legislation at a very early stage.

With that in mind and with regard to the section 38 amendment, I take on board very much what Senator Ruane said. It was an angle from which I had not looked at the matter. However, looking again from the rural side, €1,000 is still too high. If an 18 year old at a social function or outside a school disco has €400 to €600 in his pocket, we all know where it came from. I take on board what Senator Ruane said. It was a good and well-made point but from my perspective, €1,000 is still way too high.

At the other end of the scale is the need for the harmonisation of EU law. The main offenders are, unfortunately, living on mainland Europe and they are untouchable. Until we have harmonisation of EU law whereby assets can be seized in other European countries from Irish criminals based there, we will continue to have a major problem.We will still only be getting the mules, the gofers and the henchmen. We will not be getting to the top of the tree. We need to start working on that. We need to have harmonisation and to have the European police forces working in sync with our new legislation.

I welcome the amendments and I hope the Minister can get them through as soon as possible. I stress that when they are in situ, resources will be needed and the legislation will need to be enforced.

Victor Boyhan (Independent)
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I welcome the Minister and thank her for giving of her time. Every time I look at the television monitor, I see her speaking in one of the Chambers. She is an exceptionally busy Tánaiste and Minister.

I have read these proposals and the amendments, which I think are measured, balanced and appropriate. This is a balancing act and the measure has to be appropriate but the Minister is tough on crime and I salute her for that. She is known to be tough on crime, which is important because that is what the people want. Crime comes in many guises, as Senator Craughwell said, and it is always difficult to keep ahead of the pace, given there are so many ways of dodging justice and the law. The Garda and those who work against criminal activity want to be supported in their work. It needs to be supported from the top down - from the Minister down - and I have no doubt about the Minister's commitment. Therefore, this measure is particularly appropriate.

It is worth noting that there are safeguards, as there must be with any legislation. The ability to apply to the courts to have an authorisation removed or amended and to make a case is appropriate, which is what I mean by an appropriate and a fair response. It is not just a catch-all situation because people have recourse to the law. Communities across this city, county and country are ravaged by crime and criminal activity, be it with regard to drugs, smuggling, prostitution or a whole range of crimes. Many people are hooked into crime who do not give their full consent or who are not even fully aware how they are hooked into criminal activity.

This is a good measure which, as I said, is fair and appropriate. I will be fully supporting the Minister in this regard.

Frances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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I thank all Senators for their contributions to the debate, which I found very interesting. I have no doubt we will discuss this further on Committee Stage. I thank Senators for the broad support for these measures that is clearly evident. As I said, 20 years ago the Dáil and Seanad were united in regard to the establishment of CAB following the very tragic death of Veronica and it is appropriate to see that support here today, notwithstanding the various points that have been made by Senators regarding possible amendments. I will address some of the points that have been made.

On a general point, international co-operation was mentioned a number of times and is certainly very important. A lot of international work is going on, to which I want to refer briefly. Garda liaison officers are based in London, Paris, the Hague, Madrid and Lisbon and the Garda works very closely with both Interpol and Europol. I have visited Europol and have seen the work it is doing. At the recent Justice and Home Affairs Ministers meeting, one of the key focuses in terms of tackling, not just international criminal activity, but also terrorism was to do further work on the interoperability of the various databases that are being used by criminal justice agencies across Europe, a point referred to by various Senators. It is very important we make progress on that. It costs money, however, and there is a €200 million investment programme in An Garda Síochána in regard to those debates, which is also important. At the last Justice and Home Affairs Ministers meeting, I met with the Justice Ministers of Belgium, the Netherlands, Spain and the UK to discuss dealing with the international face of gangland crime. The point made by Senators in regard to dealing with these issues is very relevant.

The issue of resources was raised. Thankfully, with the improved economic situation we have been able to dedicate more resources to An Garda Síochána. We have had extra recruitment and I hope to be in a position, depending on the budget processes later this year, to accelerate recruitment for Templemore in September in order that we have above and beyond the 600 gardaí we are already training in the course of this year. Further money is also going into Garda vehicles and the other support systems gardaí need. Of course, all of that is the backdrop to this legislation and is the kind of resourcing that is needed. There was a period when resources were not being put in because of the economic situation, and I believe we are playing catch-up in a number of areas.

I want to pay tribute to the work of An Garda Síochána. The front-line work in confronting these gangs requires courage and serious commitment, which we are seeing. I was asked about the armed response unit in Dublin. Recruitment is under way, huge interest has been expressed by Garda members in this regard and they are currently being assessed and trained. Several hundred gardaí applied so there is huge interest in the armed support unit, even though it was said at the time there would not be.

To go back to the details of the Bill, a number of Senators spoke about the ring-fencing of funds and said they would like to put down amendments. I want to make a number of points for consideration before Committee Stage. It is very unusual to ring-fence money for particular projects or communities as it tends to go into the general Exchequer fund, which is the normal way of dealing with it. There was previous consultation with the Department of Finance on this point. While I am not saying I would not be prepared to examine this to see what we might be able to do, it raises a number of practical difficulties, not least because of the variation in assets that are seized from one year to another. Communities might be depending on the assets they get one year and, although they would want sustainable funding, they might not get it the next year. There are practical issues that need to be considered if we were to ring-fence the funds in this way, primarily around the variable and uncertain nature of the value of the assets seized by the bureau in any given year. In addition, potential delays through the possibility of legal challenge to court disposal orders could be problematic in terms of the provision of ongoing funding to community programmes. We can tease out these practical difficulties when we are considering the detail of the Bill. There is also an administrative cost. As I said, it is very unusual from the point of view of collecting Exchequer money to ring-fence it for a particular issue. It usually goes into the general fund and is then used as decided according to Government priorities at budget time.

A number of points were made about reasonable grounds, in particular by Senator Ruane. In legislation, the legal concept of "reasonable grounds" is well understood, and it obviously means what is objectively reasonable. I would make the point that it will eventually be a matter for the High Court to decide on that.

The goods seized can be a combination of goods, not just one item. Safeguards are built in. Senator Boyhan talked about the balances in the Bill and these have been very carefully considered. With the CAB legislation, we have had to be very careful as there have been constitutional challenges, although the legislation has always been upheld.

Senator Craughwell referred to an amendment in regard to the issue of gambling and illegal proceeds. Gambling and money laundering legislation is due to deal with an EU directive, which might be a more appropriate place for that amendment. We can discuss the issue further with the Senator.

I thank Senator Clifford-Lee for her support for the Bill. She spoke about supporting communities, in particular children who have been affected, and about the two recent incidents. I can only join with her in condemning those incidents. This is why we have had to bring forward this kind of legislation to deal with the kind of violence that, unfortunately, we have seen in Lusk today and in other areas in recent days.As both incidents are under investigation, I cannot make any comment on the connections or otherwise to earlier murders. We do know, however, that there are gangs which are intent on having a cycle of revenge and retaliation. To tackle them, we need all of the resources of the State, both practical and financial, that we give to the Garda, as well as stronger legislation.

The CAB has what it calls "asset profilers" around the country. Senator Paul Daly spoke about rural areas. I am very conscious of the need to support communities across the country in their efforts to deal with crime. We have, for example, doubled the funding for Macra na Feirme for the local text messaging scheme. Community involvement is very important in dealing with local criminal activity. Equally, the asset profilers in the CAB are very often members of An Garda Síochána who have good information on the situations about which the Senator talked where there is drug dealing. They report back to the CAB and, where possible, there is an investigation and a prosecution. This has been very helpful across the country in terms of the success of the CAB.

What I am presenting in the legislation is very much in line with the idea of having a mini-CAB which is more local. Communities have stated to us that they want to see people who are dealing in drugs locally, perhaps in smaller amounts than the bigger international players, interrupted. This is very important from the point of view of maintaining the morale of the community. Where people are flaunting assets, we must be in a position to deal with them.

Senator Ivana Bacik spoke about an amendment she might bring forward. We would have to look at it very carefully. As she is well aware, the reason for inserting the period of 21 days is to allow the CAB to gather evidence to see if it can pursue its intention to confiscate the assets. We will certainly examine any amendment she will bring forward, but it might be problematic.

I will conclude on that note. I thank all of the Senators who contributed to the debate and expressed their support for these measures. I am very pleased that there is support across the House for this legislation.

Ned O'Sullivan (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Tánaiste. It was remiss of me not to welcome her earlier, but I certainly thank her for her attendance both today and always.

Ned O'Sullivan (Fianna Fail)
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When is it proposed to take Committee Stage?

Martin Conway (Fine Gael)
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On Thursday.