Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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The Order of Business is No. 1, Social Welfare (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2015 - Committee Stage, to be taken at 4.45 p.m.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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Can time be set aside in the coming weeks for a debate on the Government’s plans for the national drugs and alcohol policy? Last week my colleague in the other House, Deputy Niall Collins, and I published our proposals in this area. There is quite a bit on which all parties can agree. The absence of a Minister of State with responsibility for drugs policy is a deficiency and has taken away the focus required in dealing with substance and alcohol misuse. I am chairing the north Dublin regional drugs and alcohol task force and aware of the need to properly resource this initiative. There have been drastic reductions in the numbers of gardaí in drugs squads across the country. I am not saying this as a criticism but calling for a refocusing to recognise that the priority afforded to this issue has waned somewhat.

The types of drug being abused have also changed. Taking Dublin as an example, the number on methadone has remained static in the past ten to 15 years, while in many areas the number abusing heroin has actually reduced. However, synthetic drugs are now being used such as synthetic cannabis which is causing desperate damage, particularly to young people who are developing physically and mentally. It is unfortunate that some Members of the other House and people abroad have the view that cannabis is actually safe - it is not. The chemical make-up of the synthetic cannabis being sold is and has proved to be very dangerous. I have met young adults who are in residential detox programmes as a result.

I would welcome an opportunity to debate a national drugs policy with the Minister for Health, Deputy Leo Varadkar. The fact that he is charged with responsibility for this issue presents a problem because it requires the specific focus of a Minister of State. Other parties will examine Fianna Fáil’s recent proposals and bring forward their own. Will the Leader check with the Minister for Health and schedule a specific debate before the summer recess on actual proposals for a national drugs and alcohol policy?Alternatively, if that cannot happen, perhaps we would consider public consultation. Ideally, I would prefer if the Minister were to come into the House in the coming weeks.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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I am sure all colleagues will wish to join me in offering sincere condolences to the families of all the many people who were so tragically drowned in the past few days in the seas off the north coast of Africa, particularly off the coast of Libya, and the very distressing reports that it seems 950 people were drowned off one boat in which 250 women and 50 children had been locked in the hold and could not escape. It is an appalling human tragedy. That was only one of the tragedies, as there have been quite a number of others. It is important that we have concerted action on this at EU level. A summit is being held on Thursday. I ask that we request the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade to come into the House in the coming weeks to address us on the measures in this respect that are proposed to be taken at EU level and whether we will see a strengthening of search and rescue services, a reinstatement of the type of Mare NostrumOperation that the Italian navy had been carrying out last year and perhaps an increase in the number of those cases settled. In particular, we should address in this House what Ireland's response to this human tragedy will be. There is a concern that a small number of EU countries are bearing a huge burden in terms of trying to deal with the terrible human tragedy of drownings and of human trafficking and that many of the northern European countries, including ourselves, are not so directly concerned. We should be doing more on this and, in particular, taking in more refugees from war-torn countries such as Syria, Libya and so forth.

In this context, we should also address the issue of EU immigration law, the idea of a fortress Europe and, in particular, the Dublin Convention, which has caused a huge problem and the title of which, unfortunately, has the name of our capital city. The difficulty arising from the Dublin Convention has been a cause of many of the problems in dealing with the issue of immigration at EU level and the fact that the first country in which somebody arrives in the EU is the country that takes ownership of the issue. We need to address all these issues with the Minister.

I wish to echo Senator O'Brien's comments on the drugs and alcohol strategy. It would be a good move to have a debate on that in this House. We have had some debate on it at the justice committee but clearly this is more an issue about health than about justice. It would be good to have the Minister, Deputy Varadkar, in attendance to address that issue and also to address the possibility of a junior Minister being appointed with direct responsibility for this area. There is concern that the drugs and alcohol strategy has not been sufficiently prioritised given that there is not a designated junior Minister for this area. I would very much welcome such a debate and I ask that it be arranged in the next few weeks.

Sean Barrett (Independent)
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I welcome reports today that the Minister, Deputy White, is to propose at Cabinet tomorrow that the broadcasting charge should not proceed. That charge was to replace the television licence by extending it to people who did not have a television. It seemed to me to be a strange part of public finances. We asked the then Minister, Deputy Pat Rabbitte, in the debate on it at the time if the dog licence would apply to people who did not have a dog. It is a strange principle in public finances and I am glad that it appears that the Minister, Deputy White, intends to propose that it be postponed, at least until after the election.

On broadcasting matters, next Saturday, and Senator Labhrás Ó Murchú should be making this contribution rather than me as he is much better qualified to do so, Donncha Ó Dúlaing will step down after more than 50 years in Irish broadcasting. We think of all his great works for charity, the Choctaw Indians and every county in this country. He ranks with the great tradition of broadcasters like Ciarán Mac Mathúna and Seán Óg Ó Ceallacháin. I wish him well and thank him for his career and for introducing so many people to what was for him the magic of the era of Jack Lynch and Christy Ring. His has been a notable career in broadcasting and I am proud to acknowledge that.

Imelda Henry (Fine Gael)
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I take this opportunity to welcome the announcement today from Clarence House and from the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Charles Flanagan, that Prince Charles and his wife, Camilla, will visit Northern Ireland and Ireland, and that they will visit the west. It is expected they will visit Sligo. That would be very warmly welcomed by the people of County Sligo. As a member of the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly for the last number of years, I mentioned on a few occasions to the British ambassador that Lord Mountbatten had never been commemorated in the County Sligo or in Mullaghmore. We are very hopeful in County Sligo that Prince Charles will visit SligoWe are looking forward to the visit and the positive impact it will have not just on Sligo but on the west and in terms of relations between Britain and Ireland.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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I propose an amendment to the Order of Business that No. 68, motion 15 be taken today. Will the Leader organise a debate with the Minister on this issue, which would be in parallel with Government policy about getting social protection for the self-employed? Obviously, in terms of those paying the pension levy, these people will not receive a pension but it might be something the Government would put together as part of its proposal on social protection payments for the self-employed, which is currently not the case. If the Leader is willing to organise a debate, we will look at pressing the amendment.

Will the Leader also organise a debate on the ongoing issue in the Mediterranean? It is a farce that the European Union High Representative is wringing her hands and crying crocodile tears over the loss of life in the Mediterranean when she has been well aware of the situation for the past year. She knows the EU has withdrawn its support for the Italian Government's rescue missions. She knows also that the consequences of that, in the famous words of Lord Trevelyan when he closed the soup kitchens in Ireland, are that the situation shall be left to the operation of natural causes. If the rescue missions in the Mediterranean for those escaping the horrors of the civil war in Libya and throughout Africa are scaled down or suspended, people will die. This EU action is entirely media related. It is entirely to do with the fact that the scale in terms of the number of deaths is enormous on this occasion but, in reality, hundreds of people have died in recent months and years because of the EU's withdrawal of the rescue missions. The EU High Representative has a case to answer in this regard. Her current action is only a response to her previous inaction. I ask that she and the Minister for Foreign Affairs be invited to come before the foreign affairs committee to discuss what we can do to put pressure on our EU colleagues to ensure this horrendous situation does not continue.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator, will you clarify the amendment you have proposed?

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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It is 15 on the Order Paper.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Is it a Bill or a motion?

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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It is non-Government motion 15.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Is the Senator proposing that it be taken today?

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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That it be taken today, yes.

Michael Mullins (Fine Gael)
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I join Senator Bacik and others in extending our sympathy and expressing our grave concern about the appalling loss of life in the Mediterranean over the weekend and recently. We all share the view that is shared throughout the European Union and with our southern partners that a joint solution must be found to such a large humanitarian crisis. The issue of human safety and the involvement of organised crime must be addressed. These unfortunate people are leaving their home countries because of appalling conflict and famine. This is a major issue that the entire international community must address. All of us in the House would want to ensure our Government plays its part in providing resources for these displaced people and while significant sums of money have been donated already to the humanitarian crisis in Syria, what we are facing now is much more serious. I would welcome a debate with the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade on this humanitarian crisis, which is probably the worst we have seen in our lifetimes. I support the call for that debate.

Will the Leader organise a debate as soon as possible on the banking issue?Last week I spoke about variable mortgage rates. However, we also need to examine the whole issue of banking charges and particularly bank charges as they apply to small business, especially small cash businesses. I have recently discussed this issue with small operators who have cash businesses. They tell me they cannot afford to lodge their cash through the banks. They are charged 60 cent per €100 to do so and they are, therefore, finding alternative ways. If it was not for the credit union movement, many of these businesses would have to close. I spoke to a small shopkeeper this morning who told me that because of the co-operation and the support of the credit union he has been able to halve his banking charges.

We need to have a major debate in this House on the banking system, including banking charges. This man tells me that if he comes under any further pressure from the banks or Revenue, which is putting him under severe pressure, he will have to close shop and put six people out of work. We do not want that to happen. I would like an extensive debate in this House with the Minister for Finance or the Minister of State in the Department in respect of the banks and their behaviour in dealing with small business in this country.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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There were more than 4,500 acres destroyed recently within the national park in Killarney. That is apart from the commonage in the foothills of Mangerton and other areas coming close to the park. This destruction was particularly severe in the Ladies' View and Derrycunnihy area. The air corps had to be called in with a bambi bucket to take water from the lakes to quench the fires. We have had 54 gorse fires this year alone as against five last year. Some 50 of those were in the past two weeks. Services are being overstretched. I am not saying there are not some already in place but this clearly points to the need to find more than fire breaks to protect the national park. It is a danger to the environment and birdlife, although the deer are managing to escape it. However, I am particularly concerned about the native red deer species.Many of them are straying all over the place. They are leaving the park and invading farmland, doing untold damage to land and crops.

In addition, there is a herd of almost equal number of sika deer, which is a Japanese imported species. A number of years ago one of the Arabian Sheiks sent his own plane and I think we gave him up to 100 sika deer. I wish he or some of his cousins would come to our aid again. The State must seriously consider - I do not want to say crudely getting rid of them - selling off to other estates in Ireland in the first instance or within the British Isles the sika deer. The State should encourage selling off or getting rid of the sika herd to make room exclusively for the native herd within the national park, which I believe could more than easily be accommodated there.

The situation is very serious and our foremost national park needs every protection possible. It is scandalous to think that these fires were apparently set deliberately. Hopefully the people would do it only within the permitted time in future and alert the fire services as to when they intend to do their burning.

Labhrás Ó Murchú (Fianna Fail)
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I second the amendment to the Order of Business proposed by Senator Daly. This is a very important motion and there is some urgency about it. I compliment him on his vigilance in this regard. Perhaps the Leader might be able to accept the amendment because it is of interest to us all.

I join Senator Barrett in sending best wishes to Donncha Ó Dúlaing. He has had an exceptionally illustrious career in broadcasting and is stepping down after 50 years. He was truly the king of the highways and byways. He came from the old school of journalism and broadcasting which was very positive and encouraging. I doubt if there is a parish in Ireland he did not visit. He sought out people who had a special story but very often did not get the spotlight, whether they were poets, craftspeople, musicians, writers or whatever. His was an exceptionally friendly voice coming into the homes of Ireland every week. He represented a very strong connection with emigrants abroad. He has done the nation considerable good. A few years ago he came into the Houses of the Oireachtas to make a programme, interviewing various people here at Christmas time. Guím gach rath air.

I ask the Leader to get us an update on the imminent implementation of the planned new postal code system. Yesterday I received representations from a major American company that does business in Ireland, particularly in the context of deliveries throughout the entire island. The understanding is that the code will not be in sequence, which I find very difficult to understand. Let us think of the emergency services and what it would mean if they do not have the code numbers in sequence. Even An Post will face a similar situation. All delivery companies will also have it.

While this has been outsourced to another company, I hope it is not too late to stop and reflect on it. I believe it is a mistake and the people who approached me were exceptionally surprised to be more or less told it would not be in sequence. I would like to know the reason for that. While I am not sure who the appropriate Minister is, it would be worth having a debate because we are representing all the counties in Ireland and we understand the situation on the ground. It would give us an opportunity to give an input into that debate.

Colm Burke (Fine Gael)
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I join my colleagues who have raised the issue of the crisis in the Mediterranean.The sinking of the Titanic occurred 103 years ago yesterday. A great number of people lost their lives in that tragedy. Many more people are now losing their lives in the crossing from North Africa to Europe.

We have questions to answer on issues such as the arms trade. Many of these conflicts are fuelled by the people who are selling arms and ammunition produced in the US and Europe. We should ensure this arms trade is curtailed or eliminated because we are now suffering its consequences, with conflict continuing to grow in many regions and a major crisis on our hands. As someone who served on the foreign affairs committee and the sub-committee on human rights in the European Parliament, I am aware of the huge issues involved which we cannot ignore. We must play our part in delivering an immediate solution on behalf of the people concerned. For $6,000 it is possible to purchase a boat which can transport up to 600 passengers, each of whom is charged $1,000. Somebody is making a lot of money out of this human tragedy. It is important that we debate the issue with the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade to clearly identify how we are going to deal with this issue from a European perspective.

Last weekend I attended a conference of junior doctors. We want them to stay in this country but I was appalled to hear that junior doctors in one of the major hospitals in this country do not have Internet access in the doctors' residence. The hospital library is only open at certain hours during the day even though these individuals are supposed to be studying alongside their work. These are some of the reasons why they are leaving the country. We are not offering them structured contracts or suitable working conditions. I want to raise these issues with the Minister for Health because they will have to be addressed if we are to keep these people working in the health system in Ireland. I ask the Leader to raise the issue with the Minister so that we can discuss it in our next debate with him.

David Cullinane (Sinn Fein)
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Since our last sitting, SIPTU members in Bus Éireann and Dublin Bus have served notice to strike because of a refusal on the part of management of both companies to discuss the trade union members' concerns about tendering 10% of all contracts for bus services. Bizarrely, while it is proposed to privatise 10% of bus routes across the State, 100% of bus routes in Waterford city are to be privatised. It appears that the city is being used as a guinea pig in this experiment. These workers have not decided to go on strike lightly. Nobody wants to be on strike but now they have taken that decision the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport needs to set out his position. Has he met the unions and has he addressed their concerns?

Dublin Bus and Bus Éireann provide an essential service to the people of this State. It is clear to anybody who understands public transport that service providers have to be as efficient as possible. Ideally they will make a profit but they must also provide essential services, particularly in certain areas, which may not make profits. Many people living in rural areas, including in parts of Waterford, Carlow and Kilkenny, see this as part of a wider attack on rural Ireland, whereby services are cut because they do not make economic sense according to a Government logic which ignores the social and economic cost of removing them.Will the Leader arrange for the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport to come to the House to discuss this issue ahead of any planned strike action? Such a debate would allow the Minister an opportunity to give his view on the genuine concerns of members of Bus Éireann and Dublin Bus and afford us an opportunity to question him about his plans in this area.

Gerard Craughwell (Independent)
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I respectfully ask my colleagues to defer their request to amend the Order of Business for two reasons. First, I have submitted a substantial amendment in this regard and, second, the Leader has committed, in only the past few minutes, to bringing the representative groups to meet the Minister. We should give him time to arrange that engagement and perhaps have the debate just before the meeting takes place.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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With respect, our views on this issue are well known and we are all in agreement with the motion.

Gerard Craughwell (Independent)
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Six houses in Millfield Manor, Newbridge were burned down recently in an arson attack. The owners of the remaining properties in the estate have serious concerns about the safety of their houses and apartments. In particular, the complete collapse of the six houses has led to concern about the soundness of their construction. Residents are concerned, too, about the impact of the fire on their insurance cover. They are asking whether their houses comply with fire safety regulations and have questions about the planning authority and the responsibilities of the Government and NAMA. There is also the issue of the unfinished properties in the estate which are attracting anti-social behaviour. I will forward the list of queries to the Leader by e-mail and ask that he raise them with the responsible Minister and come back to me with answers. I only received this information today and would not ordinarily bring it in this direction. However, it is a matter of some urgency and there is a meeting of concerned residents taking place tomorrow night.

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
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I join colleagues in paying tribute to Donncha Ó Dúlaing. One of my good friends, Kathleen Goff, used to send requests to his programme regularly on my behalf and mention my name until the producers wised up to the fact that I was a local politician. Before that, I was delighted to hear my name mentioned on the programme on a regular basis. Mr. Ó Dúlaing is a fantastic broadcaster and a great person. I had an opportunity to meet him when he came to County Meath on one of his sponsored walks.

I propose an amendment to the Order of Business that motion 14 which proposes that Seanad Éireann support a one-year bankruptcy term and an end to the bank's veto in the personal insolvency process be taken today. This is an issue, unfortunately, that is apparently being debated behind closed doors. A majority of the Oireachtas - certainly, a majority of the Seanad - would support the motion which is about introducing a level of fairness in the personal insolvency process. There are two parts to it, namely, a proposal to reduce the bankruptcy discharge period to one year, thereby helping to prevent bankruptcy tourism, and, second, a proposal to end the ability of the banks to veto proposals. The Government has given indications of late that it may abolish or restrict that veto. However, the former Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Alan Shatter, denied that there was any such veto contained in the legislation. We are not allowed to use the word "lie", but that is what he told us and the Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance said the same. We pointed out at the time that the banks would have a veto, but it is only now that the Government is acknowledging it. There were complete and utter untruths told in both Houses by senior Ministers and we must show them for what they were. Seanad Éireann should be very strong in seeking a one-year bankruptcy term and an end to the banks' veto, the existence of which the Government has finally acknowledged. It thought it would get away with putting it in the legislation, but that has not happened because the banks are running riot and preventing people from securing fair deal. Let us pass the motion and thereby send a strong message to the Government and the banks, a message which reflects the majority view in both Houses.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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To clarify, is the Senator referring to No. 68, non-Government motion 14, on the Order Paper?

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
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Yes.

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
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I support what my friend and relation and colleague, Senator Michael Mullins, had to say about the banks in respect of small businesses. I certainly think that the banks are not playing their part in helping small businesses survive and thrive in our communities. Senator Mullins mentioned the charges involved. Recently when a person who was involved in a very important local community festival went to lodge money that person was hit by charges. A business owner in Portumna told me about the difficulty when ATM machines are not kept properly supplied. This affects business some evenings in rural towns because not everybody is in a position to operate a credit card system or whatever it is. The banks need to buck up and play their part in the revival of rural economies in particular.

The Garda Síochána has earned the respect of the people of Ireland by being a fair and impartial keeper of the peace since the foundation of the forces in 1922. That is why I am particularly concerned about numerous photographs which have emerged of An Garda Síochána sitting at stands surrounded by "Yes" campaign pro-gay marriage posters in recent weeks and days in the context of people being registered to vote, which is good in itself, but doing so under a clearly partisan political banner which is completely unacceptable. I am astonished that the Minister for Justice and Equality has not yet expressed her concern, so far as I know, about this. These photographs were taken in a number of universities and colleges in recent weeks. The presence of uniformed gardaí at such a location registering voters as they are being given pro "Yes" side information, clearly associates the Garda with one side in the referendum campaign. This opens the Garda to the perception of endorsing a particular political campaign. I am astonished at the lack of judgment and the lapse of judgment of a retired Supreme Court judge, who is quite entitled to take a position in the referendum, but to participate in a photocall involving the Garda in a registration campaign, again organised under the banner of one side of the argument, is remarkable.

The Government is currently being sued in the Supreme Court for using State resources improperly in the children's referendum. Here, again, it appears we are looking at the dubious use of State resources. The involvement of members of the Garda Síochána in clearly political campaigns risks undermining the impartiality and respect that members of the force enjoy and, in addition, influencing the voting public to vote in a certain manner.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Is the Senator seeking a debate on the issue?

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
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Yes. If this was the Iona Institute under whose banner the Garda had appeared to register voters we would not be enjoying the sunshine today because the sky would be in the process of falling in the national media. It is really important that Senators in these days are heard on this point. It is our duty to comment on events of major public concern.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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The Senator is way over time. I call Senator John Gilroy.

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
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It would be appropriate for the Minister to communicate to this House and through this House what exactly she thinks of what has been going on.

John Gilroy (Labour)
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Senator Rónán Mullen is making a mountain out of a molehill. The photograph in question is a single photograph and the Garda Commissioner has expressed an opinion on it already; to try to generate further publicity out of it is disingenuous.

While we welcome Senator Thomas Byrne's contribution and his welcome for Deputy Willie Penrose's Bill, which we hope will come on to the Statute Book as soon as possible, it is naked political opportunism to seek to divide the House on a Bill on which we all agree and is cynicism at its worst.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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One can support it.

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
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One can support it.

John Gilroy (Labour)
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While he purports to portray his comments as support for the Bill it is nakedly obvious that it only cynical positioning ahead of the next election.

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
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I am down in the courts all the time.

John Gilroy (Labour)
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Perhaps we could have a debate on our insolvency mechanisms and enable Deputy Penrose's Bill to have a smoother transition through both Houses?

Diarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
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I second my colleague Senator Thomas Byrne's amendment to the Order of Business. In doing so I commend Deputy Willie Penrose who is attempting to get legislation passed through the Lower House in order to provide for a one year bankruptcy provision. Any of us dealing on a daily basis with people in difficulties - I have some experience of it myself which is no news to this House - will be aware that the banks are not the easiest to deal with if they think they have anything to hang over someone.I would be supportive of the amendment to the Order of Business and of Deputy Penrose in his attempt to get this legislation through the Lower House. I hope recent reports that some members of the larger party are trying to prevent him from doing this are not correct.

I also support Senator Daly's amendment to the Order of Business. That issue has been ongoing in this House since I was elected to it.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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The Senator raised it himself last week.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator Wilson, without interruption.

Diarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
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The pay, conditions and pensions of county and city councillors have been issues in this House for as long as I have been a Member. In recent months, Senators Brennan, Paul Coghlan and Cummins, as well as members of my own party and Senator Craughwell, have been involved in trying to progress this matter. I am seeking an all-party approach to the issue. We all know how the system works. The Government will ultimately decide whether it will concede to giving better pay, conditions and pension rights to our county and city councillors. While we can all jump up and down, as it were, at every given opportunity, it will achieve nothing for the people we are attempting to assist in good faith.

As Senator Craughwell has done, I am asking the Leader if we could have an all-party approach to this issue. Perhaps in that way we can get to help the people about whom we are all concerned. It is not just at election time that some of us become concerned about the people who ultimately elect us to this House. We are concerned about them all the time. The way to advance this, however, is to work together with the Minister of the day. We can achieve something if we do that.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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Senator Darragh O'Brien raised the question of alcohol and substance abuse, including drugs in particular. I note his points concerning the new synthetic drugs. I would emphasise, as he did, that cannabis is certainly not safe. Those advocating the legalisation of cannabis should see some of the people who have been affected by their addiction to cannabis and the dangerous synthetic drugs that are currently on the streets. I will endeavour to have the Minister for Health, Deputy Varadkar, attend the House as soon as possible for a discussion on that matter.

Senator Bacik and others referred to the migrants who were drowned in the Mediterranean. This is a dreadful tragedy and there is a need for a unified, EU-wide approach. We saw some of that yesterday, and one hopes EU leaders will get together on Thursday to address this major humanitarian issue. Sharing responsibilities is an important part of that. Senator Daly mentioned having it discussed at the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade, but that is a matter for that committee. I am sure it will be addressed there by the Minister, but I will also try to get the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade to attend this House to provide us with an update on the matter.

Senators Barrett, Ó Murchú and others raised the forthcoming retirement of Donncha Ó Dúlaing who has had a notable career in broadcasting. As Senator Ó Murchú said, his connections with people abroad was an important part of his programme. I am sure we all wish him well. Senator Barrett alluded to the fact that the broadcasting charge is not to go ahead at this time. Senator Imelda Henry welcomed the proposed visit of Prince Charles and his wife, Camilla. She also noted the possibility that the couple might visit Sligo, including Mullaghmore, the scene many years ago of the dreadful murder of Lord Mountbatten, his grandson, Lady Brabourne and young Paul Maxwell. When people recall that dreadful tragedy, Lord Mountbatten is the only victim mentioned. It should not be forgotten that three others were callously killed on that day. I am sure all Senators will welcome the visit of Prince Charles and his wife following the successful visit of the Queen and the President's successful visit to the United Kingdom.

Senator Mark Daly proposed an amendment to the Order of Business, that non-Government motion No. 15 be taken before No. 1. The motion deals with the issue of PRSI and benefits for councillors. Senator Gerard P. Craughwell raised a similar issue in the Commencement debate last week and the matter has been commented on by many Senators on this side of the House and Senator Diarmuid Wilson and others on the Opposition side. I will respond to the point made by Senator Diarmuid Wilson. I have no problem in accepting the motion which should be passed unanimously. I, therefore, accept Senator Mark Daly's proposal that non-Government motion 15 be taken without debate before No. 1.

Senator Michael Mullins and his cousin, Senator Rónán Mullen, called for a debate on banking charges for small businesses. As Senator Michael Mullins noted, credit unions are helping many small businesses. I take Senator Feargal Quinn's point that competition is key in the banking sector. More competition is the only thing that will stir the banks into taking action on charges.

Senator Feargal Quinn also called for a debate on the environment and referred to the good news today on the cleanliness of the country's beaches. He also spoke about the work done by local people, who take pride in their beaches and communities, including through Tidy Towns committees. Voluntary effort is delivering very good results in this regard. I also take on board the Senator's point about the poisoning of birds of prey which are protected species. These are dreadful acts.

Senator Paul Coghlan referred to the gorse fires in Killarney National Park and the serious devastation caused. As he noted, the emergency services are overstretched. He also expressed concern for native red deer. I note the points he made about sika deer.

Senator Labhrás Ó Murchú called for an update on the new postal code system. Senator Sean D. Barrett has raised this matter on several occasions and it has been debated at length by the Joint Committee on Transport and Communications. I note the point made by Senator Labhrás Ó Murchú about the codes not being in sequence and will bring the matter to the attention of the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Alex White. I will try to have the Minister come before the House to provide an update, but, as I stated, the matter has been comprehensively debated by the joint committee.

Senator Colm Burke mentioned the crisis in the Mediterranean Sea, to which I alluded, and stressed that we all had to play our part in finding a solution to this human tragedy. He also noted that junior doctors in some hospitals did not have access to the Internet or library facilities.I suggest the Senator might raise that matter as a Commencement debate and get the answer from the Minister.

Senator Cullinane raised the question of Bus Éireann. I gave a very comprehensive reply last week on this matter. I think it was the longest reply I have given on any issue. The NTA has determined the tendering for about 10% of the market presents little if any risk to Dublin Bus or Bus Éireann's overall operations while giving the opportunity to test market pricing, offer opportunities to improve efficiency and customer service, as well as the possibility, subject to the outcome of the competition of bringing new operators into the market and enabling benchmarking. I refer Senator Cullinane to the comprehensive reply I gave to those matters as raised by other Senators last week.

Senator Craughwell asked about the Newbridge house fires. He asked quite a number of questions which, if he sends them to the Minister, I am sure the Minister will respond to. If not, perhaps he would consider it as a Commencement debate.

Senator Byrne proposed an amendment to the Order of Business: "That No. 14 on the Order Paper be taken before No. 1." I am generous but not as generous as that. I do not propose to accept that amendment.

Senator Mullen raised an issue related to the Garda Síochána. The representative association is entitled to represent its members as it sees fit. The representative association is similar to a trade union-----

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
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That is a different point.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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I suggest that the case of individual gardaí is a different matter.

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
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It is about the GRA.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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With regard to the campaign for registration I think we should all be out encouraging registration so that everybody would vote in the referendum-----

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
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That is the point. I hope now that the Leader will take a dim view of the gardaí taking sides.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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Senator Gilroy asked for a debate on insolvency. We are trying to arrange that debate with the Minister for Finance. Senator Wilson called for an all-party approach to the issue of councillors' pay. I agree completely with him. The Minister of State, Deputy Ann Phelan, was in the House half an hour ago when she took a Commencement matter on the issue of councillors' pay. I stressed that the Minister would meet the representative associations which is key. I agree with Senator Wilson's sentiments that we should have a united approach and I think this House has a united approach on this issue. Even Sinn Féin at the LAMA conference agreed with the united approach on this issue. What has upset councillors is the circular issued only a couple of weeks ago with regard to subsistence payments. If a councillor goes to a conference and a meal is provided, the councillor is docked about seven hours subsistence, amounting to about €35. This is a crazy situation and I am sure it does not pertain to the officials in the Department or any other officials when they attend conferences. This matter will need to be addressed as part of those negotiations. I welcome the fact that the Minister of State, Deputy Ann Phelan, stated that she would ask the Minister, Deputy Kelly, to meet the representative associations because that would be a first step. Anything that Senators can do to help in facilitating those talks and in reaching a resolution, would be welcome. I agree with Senator Wilson on that matter.

Gerard Craughwell (Independent)
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The Leader has agreed to take No. 68, motion 15 on the Order Paper without debate. I have a substantial amendment to motion 15.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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I am aware that there is an amendment in the office. Unfortunately, it was delivered too late for today's Order Paper.

Gerard Craughwell (Independent)
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I would be quite happy-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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As it is not included in today's Order Paper there is nothing I can do about it.

Gerard Craughwell (Independent)
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I would be quite happy to have it taken without debate if that is possible.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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It is too late for today's Order Paper.

Senator Mark Daly has proposed an amendment to the Order of Business: "That No. 68, motion 15, be taken today." The Leader has indicated that he is accepting the amendment and that the motion be taken before No. 1, without debate.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator Byrne has proposed an amendment to the Order of Business: "That No. 68, motion 14, be taken today." Is the amendment being pressed?

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
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Yes.