Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Ann Phelan.

Gerard Craughwell (Independent)
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I also welcome the Minister of State and thank the Cathaoirleach for scheduling this important and sensitive topic for discussion.

What we are talking about is the low rate of representational payment to city and county councillors. I began the discussion last week when I raised with the Minister for Social Protection the important issue of councillors' PRSI contributions. Councillors receive a representational payment of €16,950, from which the Government deducts PRSI for which councillors receive no benefit, a pension levy for which councillors receive no pension and USC, although the payment is not considered to be a salary. To add insult to injury, the representational payment made to councillors no longer compensates them for the responsibility they take on and the extent of the work they do.

Taking the average payment made to councillors, to say we are treating local elected representatives in a shabby way is an understatement. I am a trade unionist and have always sought fair play for those I represent. In this House I represent city and county councillors. The Local Government Reform Act 2014 was described by the then Minister, former Deputy Phil Hogan, as representing the most radical reform of local government in over 100 years.It introduced sweeping changes to Irish local government.

In one year the landscape of local government has undergone historic change with the amalgamation of some city and county councils, the creation of new municipal districts, new regional assemblies, the setting up of local community development committees and the creation of enterprise and development strategic policy committees, SPCs, in all councils. Constituencies are now very large with fewer councillors to do the work.

The pace of change has been fast and effective. Speaking in January, the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Alan Kelly, hailed local government as the engine behind recovery and said that by the end of 2015 local economic and community plans will have been formulated by all 31 local authorities. If local government is the engine behind recovery who are the real drivers of this engine? Who does the Minister of State believe translated this ambitious legislation into a working reality?

Our local government administrative structure is well-resourced and well-staffed with some very highly paid senior positions and we commend its work. The elected members, however, have been the real drivers of change as that was what the legislation envisaged. The former Minister, Phil Hogan, said, "The strength of the new municipalities will be founded not on corporate status, but on the role of their elected members". All over Ireland city and county councillors have embraced the immense challenges of reform with hard work, energy and commitment but how have they been treated in return?

To establish the exact position, as I am not given to hearsay and speculation, I undertook an empirical survey of every councillor in the country and here is a little of what they had to say: One councillor said, "I work 50 hours a week as a newly-elected councillor. This includes attending events. I receive €600 a month net after deductions". Another said, "I have to take a significant amount of time off work for meetings which are all held in the morning. This means that I have had to take 12 days' special leave from my annual holidays. In addition I have had to take unpaid leave to make up 24 to 30 meetings a month. It is simply unsustainable; I am lucky with my employer [but] how many employers would be so patient? I believe that we are closing out working class people from challenging for public office". Another said, "If Government is serious about attracting more women and particularly younger women who want to represent their communities as councillors then Government needs to start paying a living wage and ensure that councillors are entitled to a contributory pension. I have a BA an LLB and a first in an MA hence I'm well educated and I am sure that if I wanted to I [could] get paid more in the private sector". Another woman said, "As a woman in politics I have to fund my child care cost from council salary". This is something that we in the trade union movement fund for women who are members of the national executive.

One councillor said:

I am struggling to find enough hours to do everything. I cannot afford not to work in a full-time job as I have a mortgage and three young children. If the council remuneration is not increased to a decent, fair level the council chambers will fill with those people who can afford not to work or those with pensions. Representation will not be balanced, in a time of gender quotas, Government are ensuring that the squeezed middle, as the Government likes to call us, will not be represented going into the future. A lot of my fellow councillors are thinking about resigning.

I am coming to an end now and ask the Cathaoirleach to indulge me for a moment. Some 33% of councillors said they work more than 40 hours per week and 64% claim to work between 11 and 40 hours. Some 2% had over 30 years service and 67% had less than ten years. More then 50% of those surveyed had less than €10,000 to show for their service. The greatest insult of all is that when they get their phone bill and separate their personal calls from their council calls. Surely to God we could fund their telephone calls.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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The Senator is way over his time.

Gerard Craughwell (Independent)
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I will finish on this. Will the Minister of State commit today to assembling a group to review the pay, terms and conditions of councillors and to review in particular the PRSI tax? It is time for change and for fair play for local representatives. I know other Members of this House already made the position clear some time ago.

Ann Phelan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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I thank Senator Craughwell for raising this important issue and assure him that Senators Kelly, Whelan and Landy, and some Fine Gael Senators have raised this issue previously, not only with me but also with the Minister of State at the Department of Social Protection, Deputy Kevin Humphreys, and with the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Alan Kelly.

Our discussion today follows the debate last week in this House on the issue of PRSI contributions by councillors and the lack of benefits accruing to them. In response in the House, the Minister of State at the Department of Social Protection, Deputy Humphreys, indicated he will work with interested parties to see if a fair resolution can be reached in this area. Perhaps it is to that the Senator is referring when he suggests he would like to see a working group set up. The Minister of State has indicated he is willing to work with all interested people. I understand very well the issue the Senator is referring to because I came up through the local authority system.

On the issue of salaries, Senators are already aware of the extraordinary number of hours elected councillors contribute in carrying out their wide range of functions in order to provide the optimum level of service possible to the public. Being an elected member of a local authority is not a job of limited hours. Councillors are continually called on by their constituents. The ending of the dual mandate had an additional impact, increasing pressure to provide services to constituents on local authority issues. Indeed, elected councillors may be financially disadvantaged in representing citizens, particularly where this necessitates them taking time off from their full-time employment.

A range of financial supports is in place to assist councillors in their work. These supports include the annual representational payment of over €16,000 which is set at 25% of a Senator's salary. Annual expense allowances, retirement gratuity, mobile phone allowance and an allowance for chairmen are also provided. The representational payment represents a recognition of the work councillors choose to undertake when they stand for election and, subsequently, serve their community. This payment is not and never was meant to be a salary. Elected councillors have a commitment to their role that extends beyond the financial; councillors know that the annual representational payment is not fully commensurate with their workload, yet they continue to undertake their functions with an admirable degree of dedication.

The House is aware that significant changes have recently been made to local government structures by the provisions of the Local Government Reform Act 2014. My colleague, the Minister, has indicated that he intends to have a review carried out on the operation of the new structures and arrangements generally. This appraisal will be undertaken by a broadly representative advisory group and a working group for engagement with the Association of Irish Local Government.The review will provide a sound evidence base upon which to consider any further changes to the operation of the local government system in Ireland. The ultimate objective of that system must be to improve the quality of life of individuals and the welfare of local communities while delivering the best possible value for money. To this end, it is of primary importance to ensure that the new systems in place, such as the provisions for enhanced policy making and stronger oversight powers for the elected council as a whole, are being operated effectively and as intended.

I have no doubt that the workload of local authority members in the context of the new structures and the associated financial arrangements will arise for consideration in the course of the review. I assure the House that full account will be taken of all views expressed on this and other matters as the work proceeds. I thank the Senator again for raising these very important issues. We are well aware of the matter and it will be considered in the review of local government reforms in the round.

Gerard Craughwell (Independent)
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I thank the Minister of State for her reply. She mentioned that the representational allowance is not a salary but why are we charging PRSI, a pension levy and a universal social charge on it? If it is not a salary and there is no master-servant relationship, why is it not a straightforward allowance without any attachments? I appreciate where the Minister of State is coming from with respect to oversight powers of councillors but I have some serious doubts about it. We have disempowered our councillors and we are taking more away from them.

I have asked the following question before and a simple "Yes" or "No" response will do. Will the Minister of State consider putting together a working group to address this issue? The PRSI group is being dealt with by the Department of Social Protection. I am referring here to wages, salary, representational allowance or whatever we want to call it. Will she put together a working group that will examine this issue and produce a reasonable standard of payment for these councillors? They deserve the right to live and they should not have to fund their work from their own pockets.

Ann Phelan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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In the course of the review, full account will be taken of all the views expressed on the matter. The Minister of State, Deputy Kevin Humphreys, has indicated that he will work with all interested parties. Local government has its representative bodies and we should work with them. In line with the review of local government, Putting People First, it is not about setting up new structures. I suggest that Senators work with representative bodies that are already there.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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Will the Minister meet the representative bodies?

Ann Phelan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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I will ask the Minister to meet the representative bodies. It is a very important issue. As the review is taking place, it is where the issue should be raised.

Gerard Craughwell (Independent)
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I thank the Leader for that intervention. The representatives in the Local Authority Members Association want to meet the Minister.

Ann Phelan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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I will make that suggestion and perhaps the Minister will reply to the House about that.

Gerard Craughwell (Independent)
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That can be done through Senator Cummins.

Ann Phelan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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Yes.

Gerard Craughwell (Independent)
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I appreciate that.