Seanad debates
Thursday, 5 March 2015
Order of Business
10:30 am
Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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The Order of Business is No.1, Workplace Relations Bill 2014 - Committee Stage (resumed), to be taken on the conclusion of the Order of Business.
Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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I read in newspaper reports last weekend that the expert panel - I use that term loosely - which was looking into the airport pension scheme will meet again to have another look at what might be done to improve the position for the deferred members, in particular, of that scheme. I have been raising this issue in this House for some time, as well as the fact that existing staff will not sign any waivers. While the aforementioned meeting has been reported in the media, there has been no official announcement on this. I have written to the Minister and ask the Leader to use his good offices to encourage the Minister to use the Seanad in the next week or two to provide an update on the situation.
I wish to raise a very serious issue which came to light in recent years but which has been put into sharp focus in recent days, namely, the decision by the Government that the Dublin Fire Brigade ambulance service will be put under the effective control of the HSE. Issues have been raised with regard to the HSE ambulance service although I must emphasise that these issues do not relate to the staff. I know many of the HSE ambulance service staff in Dublin and they are very dedicated people who do an excellent job. The Dublin Fire Brigade ambulance service that is provided in the city and county of Dublin is second to none. If anything, we should be considering rolling out that model across the rest of the country because most of our major towns have fire stations and all of our firefighters are trained to paramedic level, with many trained to advanced paramedic level.
My major concern and that of my party is the fact that the local authority does not want to pay for the Dublin Fire Brigade ambulance service and is throwing that service to the HSE which cannot manage its own ambulance service. This will be to the detriment of people of Dublin. The Government should be looking at the option of a combined emergency service, and this will be part of Fianna Fáil policy in the run-up to the next general election. Such a combined service will ensure that all of our emergency resources are working together. The situation at present appears to be one of the HSE winning a turf war.
The Minister for Health said on 3 March last that he is a big supporter of the Dublin Fire Brigade ambulance service. If he was a real supporter he would have been true to the assurances he gave that nothing would happen without prior consultation with those who would be affected, namely, the Dublin Fire Brigade ambulance staff themselves. There was no consultation whatsoever. The Government is using last year's HIQA report as an excuse to bring about very significant changes which have not been thought through. This situation is extremely serious for the city and county of Dublin. If anything, we should be looking to replicate what is being provided by the Dublin Fire Brigade ambulance service in the other fire brigades all over the country in order to improve response times.
I ask that the Leader invite the Minister for Health to the House to discuss this matter and I will table an amendment to today's Order of Business to the effect-----
Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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When does the Senator wish to have a debate?
Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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Today, preferably.
Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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We had a debate arranged with the Minister on Tuesday last.
Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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He did not come to the House, as I understand it.
Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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We should invite him in again. Perhaps this time he will come to the House and he might even relent. I propose an amendment to the Order of Business calling on the Minister for Health to come to the House to state Government policy on the ambulance service and to explain why there was no consultation with those affected. This change should not be allowed to proceed and the Government can step in and ensure that it does not. I ask that the Minister come to the House for half an hour today to make a statement and take questions from interested parties.
Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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I welcome yesterday's news of a further drop in unemployment figures. The unemployment rate is now down to 10.1%, a dramatic fall over a number of years from the crisis peak of 15.1% when Fianna Fáil presided over the economic crash. This sustained fall in unemployment is very welcome. We have had a number of debates in this House on job creation but I ask that we have a further debate on the issue before the end of the session to review the progress of the Action Plan for Jobs and to look at the Government's target of achieving full employment by 2018, which no longer seems as over ambitious as it was accused of being originally. Certainly, the fall to 10.1% is very welcome and today there were more positive announcements concerning an investment by Microsoft and the opening of a new state-of-the-art facility by Glanbia in Kilkenny. It is wonderful to see the great progress being made on job creation and the falls in unemployment.
I also welcome the publication and passage of the Public Health (Standardised Packaging of Tobacco) Bill through this and the other House. This makes Ireland a leader in tackling the harm associated with tobacco. I commend the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Reilly and all the Members who supported that Bill. It received a large amount of support from across the political divide.
I ask the Leader to arrange a debate on mental health in the context of the review of mental health legislation that has been carried out by the expert group commissioned by the Minister of State at the Department of Health, Deputy Kathleen Lynch. The group reported today with 160 recommendations for changes to mental health law. I note that the Minister of State has said that she accepts the recommendations and hopes to see them brought forward through legislation amending the Mental Health Act later this year.We might have a debate on that issue again in this House. We have debated mental health and mental health legislation many times, but it would be good to have a debate in this House informed by the recommendations of this report, in particular by the recommendation that a human rights-based approach be taken.
I wish all colleagues a happy International Women's Day on 8 March. I commend all the events that are happening throughout the country for International Women's Day. I launched Trinity women's week on Monday to mark a programme of events for International Women's Day and around gender issues in Trinity College. I know that other institutions throughout the country are doing the same.
Sean Barrett (Independent)
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I raised the issue of requirements in subjects to enter universities two days ago and I have some updates on those. There are proposals to remove mathematics and languages as entry requirements, and my correspondence indicates these are gathering pace. Discussions are taking place in the University of Limerick and in UCC this week. It is reported that UCD is totally in favour of the proposals and that TCD has dissented. The Minister, Deputy Jan O'Sullivan, said in this House that the report of the expert skills group indicated to her that we needed more language skills in Ireland and not less. I do not believe she is being kept in the loop on these kinds of proposals. We are members of a multilingual European Union and we should not be cutting back on languages. Mathematics is the basis of all our investment in the science, technology, engineering and mathematics, STEM, subjects. These proposals should be passed for consideration to the education committee chaired by Deputy Joanna Tuffy and the Minister should certainly be advised of them because they seem to contradict what we are seeking to accomplish in the development of this country.
On a related aspect of the development of this country, I praise the Labour Party on its decision in Kenmare, or Killarney - I named the wrong town in Kerry-----
Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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Both are very good towns, by the way.
Sean Barrett (Independent)
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Both are excellent. The Labour Party took a stand against the British Airways IAG takeover of Aer Lingus. Its members are looking after the interests of the workers. We in this House have an interest in the development of this country. Aer Lingus, in generating 11 million passengers for a population of 4 million people, is doing four times better than British Airways in generating 38 million passengers for a population of 64 million people. If fellow Senators are interested in developing this country, we do not want a situation to develop where future Ministers with responsibility for tourism and industry have to telephone Heathrow to get flights into this country. Aer Lingus, as a development agency, outperforms British Airways by a factor of four. I ask the Senators to bear that in mind when this decision comes before their parties.
Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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I seriously commend Commissioner Hogan on his commitment that by the year end we will have new legislation to eliminate the unfair treatment of suppliers to supermarkets. As we know, the producers of food have been squeezed dry by the multiples and the large supermarkets over the years. This is a serious game changer. It is very significant news.
Diarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
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Does it include the bottles of water?
Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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I do not want to use crude language but we have talked about scata bullán before. The previous Commissioner failed to deal with this matter. Commissioner Hogan deserves great credit for his speech and what he has now promised for the producers. He said that this would happen before the end of the year. He said that there has been a considerable reduction in the proportion of the margin and profitability going to the producer. His proposal is that he is prepared to fine retailers up to 1% of turnover for unfair practices. We must greatly welcome this news. I commend him on it and on the other good work that he is doing. I wish him very well today with Glanbia and with the other matters he is dealing with in Kilkenny and Waterford.
Diarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
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I hope he is better with the milk than he was with the water.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I second the amendment to the Order of Business proposed by the Leader of the Opposition, Senator Darragh O'Brien, to invite the Minister to come into the House today. If he has time between selling insurance for private companies, he might have an opportunity to drop into to us to report on the important issue that was raised.
I draw to the Cathaoirleach's attention that it has been a precedent in this House that we do not refer to Members, whether they are present or not present or whether they have contributed or not contributed to debates. I had to leave to go to another appointment yesterday. Senator John Kelly referred to the fact that I was not present for the debate on the plain packaging of cigarettes Bill on Tuesday, 3 March, which was brought forward by the Minister, Deputy Reilly. The fact is that this Bill was scheduled to be taken at 3.30 p.m. last Thursday, 26 February, when I would have been present and would have participated in that debate and I had my research done. However, the Bill was pulled and was rescheduled for Tuesday, 3 March, when I was with the Joint Committee on European Union Affairs in London engaged on official business on the future of Europe and Britain's position in that regard. I returned to Dublin and was in the House at 5.30 p.m. and, following a very short discussion, the Bill was completed. I am not a very sensitive person about these things and I do not really care very much about them, but I ask the Cathaoirleach, who is a very fair person, if he will deal with that.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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The Cathaoirleach dealt with it at the time.
Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator Mooney made his case.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I thank Senator Mooney for doing that.
Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Kelly is making himself heard.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I am not a sensitive soul but there is a certain standard in this House to which we must adhere.
Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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I said that the comments were out of order, so the issue was dealt with.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Cathaoirleach very much for that.
Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Has the Senator a question for the Leader?
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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Will the Leader consider arranging for the Tánaiste, Deputy Burton, to come into the House to address another cutback? As and from 30 March the closure of community welfare services in Keadue, Ballinlough and Rooskey will take place. They are being transferred from Keadue to Boyle, from Ballinlough to Castlerea and from Rooskey to Dromod in County Leitrim. It represents a further withdrawal of services from rural Ireland.
Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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The Senator could raise that matter by way of a Commencement matter.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I cannot understand why Deputy Frank Feighan and Senator Kelly are standing idly by when this Government is pulling the heart out of rural Ireland. The presence of a community welfare officer is vital.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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The Government is withdrawing a service.
Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Kelly would know about it.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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A person who has to go to the community welfare officer is not in a position to travel from Keadue-----
Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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The Senator is way over time.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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-----to Boyle, from Ballinlough to Castlerea, or from Rooskey to Dromod. Let us be honest about it. The Senators opposite had their Ard-Fheis in Castlebar and they talked about rural Ireland and about the withdrawal of services. The bus service has been withdrawn.
Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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The Senator is way over time.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I am, but the Cathaoirleach is a man of the west.
Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Is the Senator looking for a debate on this? We are not having this debate today.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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The Cathaoirleach must ensure that this House-----
Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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I have a clerk as well here.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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Very well. The Oireachtas Members are being walked on by this Government. The Government party Members have no clout. The Senator opposite was in Tulsk and he knows what rural Ireland is like, so he should know what is happening in rural Ireland. Community welfare officers are being pulled out of-----
Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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I must call Senator Mullins.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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-----Keadue, Ballinlough and Rooskey.
Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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The Senator is repeating himself. I call Senator Mullins.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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It is a disgrace. I want the Minister to come into the House. I might table a Commencement matter on this issue next week.
Michael Mullins (Fine Gael)
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I welcome very much the fact that the Minister, Deputy Charles Flanagan, had discussions yesterday with the assistant Egyptian Foreign Minister on the ongoing detention of an Irish citizen, Ibrahim Halawa. This young man, as we know, was only 17 years of age when he was detained during a peaceful protest in Egypt and he has been detained for over a year. As we know from correspondence many of us have had from his family, he is obviously in great distress. His family are anxiously trying to get him home in order that he can continue his studies. I hope that this will be a first positive move in securing his immediate release.
I was present this morning for the launch of the Alcohol Health Alliance, which is a coming together of the Royal College of Physicians of Ireland and Alcohol Action Ireland to support the enactment of the public health (alcohol) Bill. This alliance is being chaired by Professor Frank Murray. As we all know, abuse of alcohol in this country is a national crisis with almost half of Irish drinkers engaging regularly in an episode of heavy drinking. The number of deaths due to liver disease has doubled in the past 20 years.Alcohol abuse is now associated with the occupation of approximately 1,500 beds each night in Irish hospitals, and 25% of all injuries presented to accident and emergencies in our acute hospitals are alcohol related. Significant legislation is due to come before this House shortly and I ask the Leader if we could get an indication as to when the Bill will come into the Oireachtas for discussion because it is critical that it be enacted during the lifetime of this Government.
Marie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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I mentioned in the House previously the banking inquiry that is taking place downstairs. It is going great. People from all over the world are coming before it to talk about what happened the banks, why it happened and what we should have done differently, but the banks are still doing what they have always done. They have reverted to type. They are not only throwing people out of their homes but they are also imprisoning them within their homes in so far as the people are subsisting and not actually living.
One has to pay now to go into a bank. One has to pay for cash and for one's cheque. One has no return on one's savings, and a crippling interest rate. I will forget about the case in Vico Road because that is a different situation; it is a more opulent situation. I am not arguing for that; they can argue for themselves. I am arguing for genuine workers and families in homes the mortgage on which they cannot afford to pay, or they cannot afford the mortgage the bank is demanding they pay back. Between crèche fees, food and life fees they cannot afford the mortgage. They are being put out of their homes every day of the week, and the banks continue to hike up the interest rates. That is very serious because downstairs this major banking inquiry is taking place, and still the banks are reverting to type.
Bank of Ireland announced a €900 million profit last week. I understand that a bank has to make a profit to fulfil its mandate but what will happen that €900 million? That profit is our money. It is our universal social charge and our interest hikes. I would like the Minister for Finance to come into this House and tell me the manners he is putting on the banks for the working people of Ireland.
I was in Tulsk last week and I saw what is happening rural Ireland, but one of the most important developments is that young couples had paid €160,000 for a semi-detached house in the middle of Tulsk, with no trees and very few amenities. The same houses next door were being sold for €49,000. The banks should be brought to heel over that and told they can wipe out the first €100,000 and let the people start paying at €49,000. Something must be done about that.
I received a letter from a woman, Cait O'Beirne, in Cork. There were 60 repossessions in the Cork Circuit Court. These have nothing to do with the house in Vico Road, which everybody is running to with cameras. There were 30 people in Cork Circuit Court and do the Senators know who they were? They were people representing the banks because the poor unfortunates were scared out of their wits and did not have the bottle to attend. They did not know what to do, and they did not have the language of the banking repossessions. I have had enough of that. I ask that the Minister come into the House and tell me exactly what manners he is putting on the banks that all of us have mortgages in because we are running to feed ourselves and pay all the bills. Can I have an answer to that question immediately? This is about the fifth time I have asked for that.
John Gilroy (Labour)
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In light of recent calls for a Minister of State to be appointed with responsibility for the implementation of the drugs task force recommendations, I ask the Leader if we could have a debate on the use of illegal drugs. A recent report in The Lancetindicated that the increasing prevalence of high potency cannabis use among young people in particular is putting people at a much greater risk of developing major mental health problems, despite what I would call some irresponsible public commentators saying publicly that there is no health risk associated with the use of cannabis. The literature is clear on the matter. The Leader might arrange for a debate in the House at his convenience.
Feargal Quinn (Independent)
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I was a little concerned about Senator Paul Coghlan's reference to Commissioner Hogan, who was taking steps at European level to limit the amount of competition between the producers and the supermarkets. Competition has been of huge benefit to this country, and to the marketplace as a whole. When I first went into business we were not allowed to cut the price of anything. If we cut the official price we were refused supplies. We need an open market, and we need competition. I disagree with Commissioner Hogan who is planning to introduce at European level a restriction on competition between suppliers and supermarkets.
The question of competition is a reminder of how well our economy is doing now. We are showing signs of getting the unemployment rate down, but there was an interesting development yesterday. The British House of Commons is now allowing Stormont to set its own corporation tax. That will be more competition for us on this side of the Border. It is great competition. We are all the one island and it will do no harm to have that competition but it is a reminder that we should not become complacent. We have to continue to ensure we will be competitive in the future.
I refer to Senator Barrett's point about the suggestion that we take the pressure off teaching languages, which seems to me to be outrageously wrong. We need languages if we want to export, and to take languages off the curriculum would be a huge error. We must make sure that we do not do that. Whatever about mathematics, that seems outrageous. We cannot concentrate on everything but we should not on any grounds take the pressure off teaching languages. The necessity to do that, if our economy is to continue, is very high.
Terry Brennan (Fine Gael)
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I, too, wish to acknowledge the reduction in the live register figures. Thankfully, the number of people signing on for social welfare has continued to fall 39 consecutive months in a row. That is great news. Unemployment figures are down from a high of 15.1% in February 2012 to 10.1% currently, and the figure is about to reduce to below 10% for the first time in many years.
I have no doubt that the Government's Action Plan for Jobs is working. That must be recognised and appreciated. There are decreases in all eight regions of the country, and the fastest decrease is in the mid-west region. In excess of 141,000 people left the live register in the past 12 months. That is a true indication that the Government's plans for job creation are working, and long may those efforts continue. I congratulate the Minister, Deputy Bruton, and his team on that magnificent achievement.
Paschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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Our colleague in the other House, Deputy Willie Penrose, published a Bill recently to reduce the time to discharge bankruptcy from three years to one year. Last weekend at the Labour Party conference, and subsequently, the leader of the Labour Party and Tánaiste, Deputy Joan Burton, endorsed this initiative by her colleague. Speaking with Deputy Penrose it is obvious that this has struck a chord with people across the country, not just with those we might perceive to be wealthy people but people in dire financial circumstances who are unable in many cases to pay their bills. If we link that with a statistic that was brought to my attention in recent days that this Government has levied some 45 tax increases since it first came to power in 2011, it is no wonder the response to Deputy Penrose's initiative has been so overwhelming.
I ask the Leader to outline the position of the Fine Gael Party on this matter. The Fine Gael Minister is in government. Towards that end I ask that there would be a debate here, even if it was only statements, to give some indication of the way the Government is thinking because it is obvious from the debate in this House at the time with the then Minister, Deputy Alan Shatter, that the three year rule was not feasible, nor was it practical.As pointed out to him by me and others, which he refused to countenance, one can go across the Border and if one fulfils the conditions of bankruptcy, one can be discharged after one year. One can take the ferry to England and do the same, as some have done, but not everybody can afford to do that or to stay within those jurisdictions for the required time. I believe this is one way, as stated in the newspapers again today by respected commentators who are familiar with the mortgage distress area - one positive way - of resolving the issue of those who are unable to pay their debts. It would also engage the banks because they would have no choice as they would be faced with a bankrupt and they would get no money. There is a two-edge sword to this issue, in a positive sense, and therefore it is vitally important that we understand the Government's thinking on it. Given that the Labour Party now supports the initiative, what is the position of the Fine Gael Ministers? Towards that end, there is a need for a debate which would allow all Members to discuss the entire mortgage crisis issue.
Aideen Hayden (Labour)
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I again add my voice to the call for a debate not just on the banking sector but on the issue of mortgage arrears, a debate I have called for on number of occasions. As shareholders in AIB, most of us are probably delighted it had a €1.1 billion pre-tax profits in 2014 as opposed to a €1.7 billion loss in 2013. However, a closer examination of the figures reveals that €188 million is a write-back from amounts it had previously set aside for expected bad debts. That basically means that the rest of the money is operating profits. I very much share the concerns of Senator Marie-Louise O'Donnell that these profits are being made by exorbitant bank charges, interest rates on variable rate loans that are unsustainable and unacceptable, and, dare I say, a certain amount of a fall in the level of arrears that has been brought about by nothing but pure terror being imposed on people who are in mortgage arrears.
Marie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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Hear, hear.
Aideen Hayden (Labour)
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I am calling for a debate on the Insolvency Service of Ireland and why its output and outcome have been so miserable
Marie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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Abysmal is the word.
Aideen Hayden (Labour)
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Abysmal and miserable.
Aideen Hayden (Labour)
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We should have that debate as a matter of urgency. As a member of the Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, it is clear there is a tsunami of repossessions coming and people in mortgage arrears are not being properly represented. There is no level playing field when it comes to the relationship between somebody in mortgage arrears and their bank. That is an issue the Government will have to address. I want that debate as a matter of urgency. I also call for the Tánaiste and Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Joan Burton, to come to the House to address the State scheme which supposedly gives advice to people in mortgage arrears. It is a joke, to say the least, that people get advice when they have actually been made an offer and they have no choice but either to accept or reject it. That is not genuine advice. It does nothing to help people in mortgage distress and is a total waste of money. I am seeking two debates, one on the Insolvency Service of Ireland and the second on the facilities being made available to people in mortgage distress.
Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
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I suggest to some in the Labour Party and Fine Gael that they replay the record of their statements in the House. Last night, a very good Bill, the Family Home Mortgage Settlement Arrangement Bill 2014, was introduced in the other House by Deputy Michael McGrath, on which I commend him, which would have removed the bank veto.
John Gilroy (Labour)
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It was unconstitutional.
Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
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That Bill would have solved some of the problems which were identified in this House at the time the then Minister, Deputy Alan Shatter, was ramming through the insolvency legislation. It was obvious at the time that its provisions would neuter any effectiveness the Bill should have had. In Wexford 13.09% of people with mortgages are in default. The level of arrears ranges from 10.2% to 19% across every county. It is an appalling scenario. I agree with Senator Aideen Hayden who said there is a tsunami of repossessions coming but what in the name of God is the Government doing about it? It is in government, not in opposition, but what is it doing about it? It has the power to change it. It has the power to give a balance so that people are not removed from their houses.
Marie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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The Senator is right.
Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Does Senator Walsh have a question for the Leader?
Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
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I am asking for a debate on the issue. I hope Deputy Willie Penrose will bring forward a Bill, or if not, the Opposition will do so, to reduce the terms for bankruptcy from three years to one year. In normal circumstances I would not support such a Bill but we are not in normal circumstances.
Martin Conway (Fine Gael)
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Extraordinary circumstances.
Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Conway is right that we are in extraordinary circumstances. As a consequence of all of this we now have people who are suffering enormously and who have no hope for the future, neither for them nor their families. There is an opportunity for us to set this right.
Aideen Hayden (Labour)
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What did the Government of which the Senator was a member do for people in mortgage arrears when it was in Government? Nothing.
Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
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It is easy to talk. What we need is action. We have introduced the action.
Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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Why did the Senator vote for the Land and Conveyancing Law Reform Bill?
Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
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We had introduced the Bill.
Marie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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It was the greatest lesson in capitulation to the banks I have ever seen.
Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
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The code of conduct on mortgage arrears was voted through in this House-----
Marie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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That Government kicked the can and capitulated to the banks.
Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
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-----and actually ensured it was easier for the banks to repossess.
Michael Mullins (Fine Gael)
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I thank Senator Walsh.
Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
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Rather than cry crocodile tears-----
Marie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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The party of which the Senator is a member bankrupted every one of us in the country. He should sit down.
Lorraine Higgins (Labour)
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Why is there a mortgage crisis?
Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
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-----the Government should be honest with people and take action on the issue. The Minister with responsibility in this area is in the other House ramming through legislation which will have serious ramifications for children.
Michael Mullins (Fine Gael)
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I call Senator Martin Conway.
Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
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She is ramming it through in the same way as the insolvency Bill and the water services Bill were rammed through.
Michael Mullins (Fine Gael)
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The Senator has exceeded his time. Senator Walsh, please.
Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
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We have seen the consequences for people of doing that.
Michael Mullins (Fine Gael)
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I call Senator Martin Conway.
Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
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Believe me, there are political consequences which the Government will be exposed to in the next 12 months for its failure to act in these areas.
Martin Conway (Fine Gael)
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It is very difficult in many ways to disagree with Senator Jim Walsh but we will let the history books judge the performance of the previous Government because I do not particularly want to get into revisionism and all that goes with it. We have a serious problem with repossessions. What Senator Marie-Louise O'Donnell and others have said is absolutely correct. It needs to be dealt with. We should not skirt around the edges but deal with it head on and upfront, and the banks need to be dealt with head on and upfront. There is too much pandering to the banks by everyone in society. Whatever length of time is left in this Government, it has to deal with the banks and ensure that people are left with their homes, not with €7 million worth of homes, as we saw on television last night. I commend Mr. Vincent Browne because what he did last night was a fantastic example of public service broadcasting. Of course, it was TV3 that exposed exactly what is going on and exposed the leadership of the so-called phoney, stupid New Land League. How anybody can go on national television and justify the actions of an organisation such as the New Land League is beyond me. The Land League goes back to Michael Davitt, who must be turning in his grave at what is going on.
Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Gilroy was a Fianna Fáil man once.
Martin Conway (Fine Gael)
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Of course, we know Mr. Beades' seed, breed and pedigree and where his loyalties lay in the past. He has some neck to go on national television and display the arrogance he has shown in recent days.
Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
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On a point of order-----
Michael Mullins (Fine Gael)
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Senator Conway, please.
Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
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It is important that we do not abuse the privilege we have in this House.
Michael Mullins (Fine Gael)
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I was about to interrupt the Senator.
Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
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My understanding is that we do not name people who are not here to defend themselves.
Martin Conway (Fine Gael)
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This gentleman is well able to go on national television and talk crap.
Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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That people are in debt and in mortgage debt is not new. It has been going for a number of years. I have been working closely with David Hall in this area on behalf of about 80 families. There has been some improvement for some people.The banks have started to do some good restructures. The number of people in grave difficulty who are close to repossession has been estimated to be between 26,000 and 30,000 families. That is sheer devastation. I support the call made on all sides of this House for us to get together and come up with new solutions to help these people stay in their own homes by whatever means. Let me remind everyone that there are no other houses for them and the State cannot give them houses. We have heard the story about mortgage to rent and rental approaches. Why have they not worked? New solutions need to be found.
I wish to raise another issue. I support the concern expressed by Senator Barrett about the removal of maths and languages as entry requirements in third level colleges. That is a strange move.
Marie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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Such a joke.
Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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Academic council meetings are likely to take place in UCC and UL in the next few days where these proposals may be pushed through. This matter is of huge concern. I wish to state that children with dyslexia are exempt from the language requirement. I do not know the reasoning behind the proposal to remove the requirement for maths and languages but I ask Senators to let me tell them the reason it should not happen. First, 70% of the people hired by the likes of Google are from abroad because Ireland does not have enough graduates with languages. We are not even able to give our own people jobs because we do such a bad job of teaching languages. I had a conference-----
Marie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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On a point of order, how come there is such inequality in regard to the time given to speakers?
Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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Sorry, Senator; I am about to make my argument, so please give me a break.
Marie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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Some of us only got the statutory one minute.
Michael Mullins (Fine Gael)
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Senator Healy Eames's time is up. Is the Senator calling for a debate?
Marie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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Other Senators did not get time to read a paper on entrance requirements for universities.
Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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May I sum up?
Michael Mullins (Fine Gael)
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Senator Healy Eames, please, without interruption.
Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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Qualifications in languages and maths are of concern because, as a country, we rely on those skills to keep up with the best.
Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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That fact has been known for years and the situation has not changed. I ask the Leader to make a written proposal to the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Education and Social Protection, which is chaired by Deputy Joanna Tuffy, for immediate discussion. I also ask him to send a note stating his huge concern about the matter to the Minister for Education and Skills. It appears the Minister does not know about this matter.
Marie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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The Minister is not even listening to teachers, so she is hardly going to listen to the Senator.
Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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I would appreciate if Senators would not interrupt me when I am on my feet.
Lorraine Higgins (Labour)
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I wish to raise an issue to do with applying legislative time limits to decisions by An Bord Pleanála in order to expedite the planning process. Apple's investment in Athenry, County Galway, is a fantastic news story and it is one that I, as an Athenry native, am thrilled with. However, I am concerned that the current planning process could end up delaying the development due to the lack of aforementioned time limits when it come to decisions by An Bord Pleanála. This means that the decision-making process could be delayed, causing a problem that those rejoicing in the much-desired investment in Athenry could do without, especially in regard to the development of employment opportunities that are badly needed in Athenry and the greater area. For this reason, I call for the introduction of targeted timeframes for planning decisions as soon as possible.
It is important that people have an opportunity to submit their appeals and that they are properly considered. However, we must also ensure that planning applications do not become stuck through endless appeal processes and delays. Such a situation affects not just Apple but all developments in general. Planning decisions must be taken prudently and with the best interest of Irish citizens at their heart. Target times would bring greater clarity to the system and would streamline the process overall. Such improvements would make for a better planning process in Ireland. At a time when new housing is badly required, building is being delayed because of the length of time involved in getting planning permission through the process. This situation has unarguably added to the housing crisis. It has also stopped construction workers from getting back to work and thus allowing us, as a country, to make further gains along the road to recovery. I ask the Leader of the House to allocate time for a debate with the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government in order to discuss time limits for An Bord Pleanála appeals.
Paul Bradford (Independent)
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I generally support the comments made by colleagues on the housing matter in terms of bankruptcy and the heavily indebted citizens all across the country, but we must ask ourselves why. The answer to the "why" question is the property crash and the policies that brought about that market. The crash did not happen by chance. Policy went in the wrong direction. We put the construction industry in a league of its own, and it was about profit, not housing or looking after the needs of the Irish people. I am concerned that we could see a repeat of this. We read again today about private meetings - and they are not secret meetings - taking place between property developers and the Minister. That scenario is a replica of what we saw in the Celtic tiger era, when one group in society almost set the Government's policy agenda.
I have called in this House previously, as have many of my colleagues, particularly Senator Hayden, for an urgent debate on housing policy. We should have a housing policy debate and not a construction industry policy debate. The purpose of the construction industry should not be to turn millionaires into billionaires; it should be to provide decent accommodation for every stratum of Irish society. Housing was provided in the much tougher times of the 1930s, the 1940s, the 1950s and also in the 1970s and 1980s. That is what our agenda should be. If people want to lobby then let us arrange a public forum on housing which would allow us to hear from developers, auctioneers and the people who are trying to buy houses.
I remember the comments the former Taoiseach Bertie Ahern made when people were critical of property people and developers. He said that people had no entitlement to criticise. It was that sort of blinkered thinking which ruined this country and brought about much of the banking crisis. We do not want to go back to that situation. The Minister of State, Deputy Coffey, has indicated that he will make himself available for a debate. Therefore, I ask the Leader to arrange an urgent debate on housing policy which will be led by the interests of people looking for housing, not by property speculators and developers.
John Kelly (Labour)
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I wish to raise the issue of double standards in the House. If a Member is absent from the House, can I not mention his name?
John Kelly (Labour)
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I refer to Senator Leyden's absence yesterday. In that case, am I not allowed to mention his name?
Marie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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Why would anybody want to?
Michael Mullins (Fine Gael)
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I understand there is precedent that an absent Member's name is not mentioned.
John Kelly (Labour)
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That is interesting. Yesterday, when I was absent from the House, Senator Leyden came in and mentioned my name. When I came in here to refute what he said-----
Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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Take it outside.
John Kelly (Labour)
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-----I was ruled out of order. Again this morning, Senator Leyden came in here, in my absence, and raised my name. I ask the Acting Chairman to explain the matter.
Michael Mullins (Fine Gael)
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This is not a matter for the Order of Business.
John Kelly (Labour)
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My query is about standards in this House.
Michael Mullins (Fine Gael)
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Does the Senator have a question?
Marie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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It is about stupidity.
Paschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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Pistols at dawn.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I would prefer a sword fight.
Michael Mullins (Fine Gael)
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I cannot allow constituency rivalries to take over business this morning.
John Kelly (Labour)
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Senator Leyden has a habit of coming in here to make his speech and then running out the door. Perhaps he is auditioning for a television drama.
Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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On a point of order, the Senator has abused his position by what he has said. Unless he has something to say that is relevant to the Order of Business then he should sit down.
Michael Mullins (Fine Gael)
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That is not a point of order.
Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Kelly keeps referring-----
Michael Mullins (Fine Gael)
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I will make a ruling.
Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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The Acting Chairman must extend protection to Members around here.
Marie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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One does not have to outline what is relevant and what is not relevant.
John Kelly (Labour)
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I have a right to get clarity on this issue for the future, because every time I am absent Senator Leyden mentions my name and every time I mention his name I am ruled out of order.
Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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The Senators should stop upsetting each other.
Michael Mullins (Fine Gael)
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We are dealing with today's Order of Business. I ask the Senator to stick to the Order of Business, please.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I did not refer to Senator Kelly.
John Kelly (Labour)
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I still have not got clarity from the House as to what happens in the future should Senator Leyden mention my name again.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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What will happen is that the Senator will be ruled out of order.
Marie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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I shall address my comment to the Visitors' Gallery. The visitors have seen an example of why we should have more women in politics.
Catherine Noone (Fine Gael)
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Take it outside.
Michael Mullins (Fine Gael)
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I ask all Senators to resume their seats.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I did not mention the fact that Senator Kelly was not here this morning.
Michael Mullins (Fine Gael)
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I shall not allow this matter to be an issue on the Order of Business.
Michael Mullins (Fine Gael)
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The ruling is quite clear that it is not in order to refer to the absence of a Senator.
John Kelly (Labour)
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Maybe I am being unfair on the Acting Chairman, because it was the Cathaoirleach who was in the Chair when all of this happened. I will raise the matter with him on another day.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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What about the closure of community welfare offices in Keadue, Ballinlough and Rooskey?
Marie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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What the people seated in the Visitors' Gallery have just heard is even more reason there should be more women in politics.
Michael Mullins (Fine Gael)
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Senator Kelly, have you a matter for today's Order of Business?
John Kelly (Labour)
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Senator Leyden raised the closure of CWO offices in Keadue, Ballinlough and Rooskey. It is regrettable. I do not believe the way forward is to close satellite clinics or community welfare offices. We have received categoric assurances from the Department of Social Protection and the Minister that where somebody feels discommoded and cannot travel to a clinic, the community welfare officer will call out to his or her house. Nobody will be left without a service.
Rónán Mullen (Independent)
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I do not know what to make of the exchanges that have just taken place. I am very glad to hear the reassurance from Senator O'Donnell that the female Senators in this House never heckle.
We should all welcome the new dairy processing facility in Belview Port announced by Glanbia. It will create 75 direct jobs in Kilkenny and we might say that the cats have got the cream yet again. The really good news is the 1,600 spin-off jobs around the country. It is excellent news for rural Ireland in particular. It is a reminder, yet again, of how much a driver of progress and positivity agriculture is in rural Ireland. It is worth €10 billion in terms of Irish exports. An uplift in dairy production will be required to provide the raw material for the facility. It is very reassuring for those involved in agriculture in Ireland and for all of those who are keen to see stimulation of the economy in those parts of Ireland, such as smaller towns and villages that have not yet benefitted from whatever good news there has been in recent times.
I am torn between admiration and horror in regard to the news about the money Sinn Féin has managed to raise in the United States. I would say, "Good luck to them" in one breath, but when it tells us that none of the money was spent south of the Border and it was all spent in the North I have to say, "Pull the other one." It is not just North of the Border that Sinn Féin has so many people working full-time for the party. I will not quibble at any organisation's fundraising ability, but it is time for us to consider whether we have the mechanisms in place in this country to allow us to scrutinise properly from where political funding comes and is spent. We have a laughable situation whereby all donations under €600 to an individual politician simply do not have to be disclosed. That is not a transparent system of fundraising. We pretend to have accountability in these matters, but in reality there is no accountability.
Michael Mullins (Fine Gael)
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Do you have a question for the Leader?
Rónán Mullen (Independent)
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My question is whether he would consider it timely that we would have a further discussion on transparency and accountability on the funding of political activities, in terms of the provenance of the funding, the expenditure that takes place, where it takes place and whether it takes place in accordance with regulations.
Catherine Noone (Fine Gael)
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I was deeply disappointed this week to discover that the EU has dithered and delayed on the abolition of roaming charges within the European Union. For the past year and a half people across Europe have been led up the garden path when it comes to roaming and have been told that the abolition of EU roaming charges was imminent, had passed through the Parliament and was about to be enacted. We now find the measure is likely to be delayed by three years, until the end of 2018, as a consequence of a European Council decision which has extended the deadline by which telecoms companies are obliged to end roaming charges.
Europe has let its citizens down through its dithering, indecision and willingness to give in to special interests. I am an advocate of the European project as a mechanism through which all of our lives can be made better and I am bitterly disappointed with this retrograde step. Great work was done during the past decade to make roaming cheaper and break down the invisible telecommunications borders which exist across Europe. We all know roaming is a significant money maker for telecommunications companies. Europe set about tackling that, yet now it appears it is not such an urgent issue after all. People can simply continue to pay through the nose for another three years as a consequence of the Council's dithering and indecision.
I am glad that my colleague in the European Parliament, Mr. Brian Hayes, MEP, plans on raising this important issue in seeking a reversal of the decision of the Council. What exactly is the Council hoping will change in the next three years? What is the difference between doing away with roaming charges in 2015 or leaving them in place until 2018? It seems to me there is little difference, apart from allowing the telecommunications companies to continue to rake in money hand over fist for an extra 36 months. I call on those who made this decision to reconsider it in the interests of European citizens.
Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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The Members were very unruly throughout the Order of Business today. It does nothing for the decorum and dignity of the House to have such occurrences. People should reconsider, when they come into the House, whether they do things properly. It would be better if they did not come in if they are going to involve themselves in the type of activity we have seen here today.
Senator O'Brien raised the question of the Dublin ambulance service, something which was raised in the past two days on the Order of Business. It is subject to a HIQA report. Patient safety is of paramount importance and must be addressed. There must be consultation and negotiation. I have been in contact with the Minister's office. He is willing to come here at 5 p.m., but cannot be here any earlier. He is booked up. He cannot give a guarantee he is available next week. I leave it to the Senator to decide if he wants to be here for 5 p.m. when the Minister will be available. We will have to decide whether the House wants to wait until 5 p.m. for the Minister.
Senators Bacik and Brennan and several others referred to the unemployment figures. The latest live register figures show a continuing fall in the numbers of people signing on, marking 39 consecutive months of decrease. The Minister, Deputy Bruton, has highlighted other positive trends including, on a seasonally adjusted basis, the fact that 4,300 people left the live register in a month. The standardised unemployment rate is at 10.1%, a decrease of 0.2% in a month, and is down from a high of 15.1% in February 2012 when the Government launched and began implementing the Action Plan for Jobs.
The annual decreases occurred in all eight regions, as Senator Brennan has outlined, with the fastest decrease occurring in the mid-west region. Some 141,151 people left the live register to take up work during the past 12 months. The exit rate from the live register into work is running at 40%, up from 33% in 2012. Every person who leaves the live register to take up employment saves the Exchequer approximately €20,000 per annum in reduced social welfare expenditure and increased tax revenue, and helps to create a reinforcing cycle of positive economic benefits. Seeing our economy thriving as it is at the moment is something that is to be welcomed by all. The benefits are filtering down to people in the regions and throughout rural Ireland.
Senators Bacik and Mullen referred to the wonderful news from Glanbia, namely, the opening of a plant in Belview Port in Kilkenny. It will create over 1,600 spin off jobs, as Senator Mullen mentioned. It is a great investment in rural Ireland, about which we have been speaking on the Order of Business today. There were some negative but many positive points about the activities in rural Ireland, which need to be highlighted. I compliment Glanbia on its development. It will be very important for the dairy industry in the country and the economy in general.
Senator Bacik mentioned the review group report on the Mental Health Act 2001.The Minister of State, Deputy Lynch, has published the expert group report on the Mental Health Act 2001, which review is in line with the commitment in the programme for Government to initiate consultation with service users, carers and other stakeholders on mental health and human rights standards. We might have a debate on that issue in early course.
Senator Barrett, Senator Healy Eames and other Senators raised the issue of the removal of languages as entry requirements in third level colleges. We need to upgrade our language and maths curricula. As stated by Senator Healy Eames, this issue should be discussed by the education committee as a matter of urgency. I hope that members will raise it with the chairman of that committee, Deputy Tuffy, whom I am sure will facilitate that debate. There is a need for greater emphasis on language and maths skills.
Senator Coghlan spoke about the unfair treatment of suppliers by multiples. Senator Quinn had a different viewpoint from Senator Coghlan in that regard and outlined that he would not be in agreement with any plans to limit competition. Senator Quinn also raised the issue of the corporate tax rate in Northern Ireland and the need for us to be vigilant in that regard. I agree with him that competition is of paramount importance. I agree also with the Senator's commentary on the language skills issue.
Senator Mooney referred to a proposed Private Members' Bill which seeks to reduce bankruptcy from three years to one year. I am sure it will be debated in the other House and also in this House. There has already been far-reaching and substantial reform of our bankruptcy law, including by way of the Personal Insolvency Act 2012, which reduced the period of automatic discharge from bankruptcy from 12 years to three years. That legislation came into effect in December 2013. There have been drastic changes in this area. During debate on that legislation, the Minister mentioned that if there is a need for further review of it, that will happen.
Paschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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He has set his face against it.
Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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Let us not forget that the period in respect of automatic discharge from bankruptcy was reduced only two years ago from 12 years to three years.
Paschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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I am aware of that.
Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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It takes time for measures to bed in. It is unfair to engage in knee-jerk reactions to legislation which only came into effect in December 2013.
Paschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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It is not impacting on the people who need it.
Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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Senators Hayden and O'Donnell raised the issue of profits in the banking sector. Senator O'Donnell also mentioned that she is not a great fan of the banks in terms of what they are currently doing and called for a debate on the banking sector. I have asked the Minister for Finance to come to the House for a debate on that issue, although I have not yet been successful. However, I continue to make that request of him.
Senator Hayden also asked that the Tánaiste and Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Burton, come to the House for a debate on mortgage arrears and distress, which issue was also referred to by several members.
Senator Walsh referred to the Private Members' Bill introduced in the Dáil this week by Fianna Fáil, which was deemed to be unconstitutional.
Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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That was a big surprise.
Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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As I mentioned yesterday, mortgage arrears are putting a great deal of pressure on many families. The Government is determined to ensure that as the recovery deepens, nobody will be left behind. We are making headway in terms of improving the situation. The most recent figures show a significant improvement in arrears, particularly in respect of family homes. The Central Bank figures underline this progressive trend, with the number of family homes in arrears having fallen for the past five quarters. Figures from the Department of Finance for the six main banks show that the number of cases of arrears in excess of 90 days, when compared with the situation at the start of 2014, have fallen by over 17,500. In August 2013, some 2,500 split mortgages had been put in place by the six main banks. The current figure in this regard is 20,500. During the same period, permanent restructures put in place by the six main banks in respect of family homes increased from 41,000 to 91,000. However, the same progress is not being made in respect of those who are in arrears of over two years. For this reason, the Government has undertaken to review the arrangements put in place to ensure there is a viable route forward for anybody who wants help. The Government has been working with the banks, which have been meeting the targets set for them by the Central Bank under the MARP process.
We will have to consider whether the current approach is the one that will really help to move forward the most difficult cases. It is not right that people should live with extreme mental pressure in respect of debts they cannot pay. As mentioned by many Members today, this is damaging the mental health of families and individuals throughout the country. It is a matter of serious concern to Government, which has thus far been responsible for the most radical overhaul of debt management in this State. As mentioned earlier, we have rewritten laws on bankruptcy in an effort to move away from the previously draconian-Victorian approach taken to this issue heretofore. The Government has put in place a range of options to help ordinary people who find they cannot pay their debts, including their mortgages.
The Insolvency Service of Ireland is in place to help people in a practical and understanding way. We know that people who have gone through the process have experienced great relief. The ISI has been proactive in encouraging people to use its services. Following suspension of application fees, the number of people availing of personal insolvency arrangements increased. These arrangements are a solution to the mortgage problem and more people should be availing of them. The first step is to make people aware of what is possible and this will be a focus of Government.
The issue of bankruptcy was mentioned a great deal today. In 2014, there were 448 bankruptcy adjudications, 95% of which were sought by debtors. It is wrong to say that no progress is being made in relation to mortgage arrears and insolvency. There is more to be done and progress to be made, but the Government is aware of the problems that exist and is doing its best to rectify them.
Senator Conway spoke about the New Land League, on which issue I do not propose to comment. Senator Higgins spoke about the large number of jobs that will be created during development of new Apple facility in Athenry and of her concerns regarding delays in the planning process in this regard. Senator Bradford called for a housing policy debate. I will ask the Minister of State, Deputy Coffey, who is responsible for planning and housing to come to the House in the next couple of weeks to address those issues.
Senator Mullen spoke about Glanbia and also referred to Sinn Féin's fund-raising machine inside and outside of this country and the need for greater scrutiny in this regard. I will try to arrange a debate on that issue in the next session.
Senator Noone raised the issue of roaming charges and the delay in abolition of these changes. There is no question but that what is happening is a retrograde step. The delay is unacceptable. We were promised by Europe that these charges would be abolished in many instances but this will not now happen for another three years. On EU affairs, it was agreed by this House that we would deal with more European affairs matters.We have had a number of meetings of the sub-committees at which all parties were represented and we have decided that, for the rest of the year, we will concentrate on three areas in the work programme, namely, energy, youth employment and agriculture. We are bringing over people such as Commissioners and Directors General of the European institutions so I hope we have a strong input from Members in the House. There is no point in these people coming here if there are only five, six or seven people in the House. If we want this we will have to be proactive ourselves so I urge all Members to get involved and to prepare their questions, some of which we can even give to the relevant people before they come over here.
Michael Mullins (Fine Gael)
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Before I put the amendment, can the Leader clarify the situation?
Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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I will leave it to the Member who proposed the amendment to the Order of Business. Does he want to come here at 5 p.m. when the Minister is here? The Minister is available after 5 p.m.
Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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I was waiting for the Leader to finish before deciding. I withdraw the amendment. I accept that the Minister for Health, Deputy Leo Varadkar, will be here at 5 p.m. today and I will certainly be here.
Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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We hope to finish our business at 2 p.m. but we will reconvene at 5 p.m. at the request of Senator Darragh O'Brien.
Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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At the request of the House.
Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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The Minister has agreed to come in at 5 p.m and that is the only time he can come in. We will suspend from when we finish the Workplace Relations Bill 2014. The Minister for Health will come here to discuss ambulance and emergency services for 30 minutes.
Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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That is fine.
Michael Mullins (Fine Gael)
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Is the amendment proposed by the Leader agreed? Agreed.