Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I would like to make the point that we are not opposing the holding of the election on 23 May. We are making a point about the reduction in the number of seats. Of course we are not against the independent commission, of which our esteemed Clerk is a member. We are against the principle of the reduction in the number of seats from 12 to 11, which the Government should have vetoed.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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This is a Second Stage speech.

Diarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Leyden without interruption.

Catherine Noone (Fine Gael)
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The Senator is wasting our time.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator is lucky to have a place to waste her time in. She would have been outside the door only for Fianna Fáil.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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This is not a point of order. The Senator had his say on Second Stage.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I am not making any point of order.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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We can all speak on Fifth Stage.

Diarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Leyden is quite entitled to speak without interruption.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I am being interrupted.

Diarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
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Please continue. Do not be inviting interruptions.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I am making the point that Fianna Fáil, as the party that brought this country into Europe, is the most pro-European party in Ireland.

John Whelan (Labour)
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This is outrageous nonsense.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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Jack Lynch and Paddy Hillery went out to Europe and negotiated it. I was the Minister of State in charge of the Single European Act.

Martin Conway (Fine Gael)
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We should not forget that.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I was negotiating that on behalf of the Government. Nobody can ever point a finger at Fianna Fáil. The point I am making is that if Fianna Fáil was in power now, we would have vetoed the reduction from 12 to 11.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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The Senator cannot believe he is out of power.

Diarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Leyden without interruption.

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
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This is a serious point.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I was a replacement candidate for Europe. I contested the convention-----

John Whelan (Labour)
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The Senator is in a time warp.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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-----for the election in 1999. I polled very well.

Catherine Noone (Fine Gael)
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That is completely irrelevant.

Diarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
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The Chair will decide what is relevant and irrelevant.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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Exactly.

Catherine Noone (Fine Gael)
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The Chair needs to up his game then.

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
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On a point of order, Senator Leyden is making a point of the utmost seriousness about the Government's failure to use its veto when it was proposed the reduce the number of MEPs representing this country. The Government should listen to the point he is making.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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That is the point. I have heard comments being made about our stand in this regard. We are emphasising that Fianna Fáil was the party that negotiated this country's entry into the EU. We are very proud of that. We should not run away from that situation at all. I will wish the Minister well if he is appointed as a Commissioner. I think he would make a good, able and strong Commissioner.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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This is ridiculous.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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He would be a strong voice on behalf of Ireland. I wish him well in that regard. We accept that the election will take place on 23 May, but we are opposed to the reduction in the number of MEPs from 12 to 11. That is all.