Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Jan O'Sullivan, to the House.

David Cullinane (Sinn Fein)
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Last night, I attended a public meeting in Dungarvan, County Waterford, that was attended by approximately 500 parents and teachers from schools across Waterford city and county. I note the Irish National Teachers Organisation, INTO, has organised similar meetings throughout the State. A strong sense of solidarity was evident at the meeting, at which parents showed solidarity with teachers, and there was solidarity between small and large schools as well as between urban and rural schools. All were united in their anger towards the cuts experienced in education, not just over the past two years but over the past six years and six budgets. The figures presented to the meeting revealed one of the lowest levels of investment in education in terms of the ratio between education expenditure and gross domestic product, GDP, as well as that the State has the second highest class sizes in the European Union. Moreover, the fact that 121,353 children in the State are in class sizes of more than 30, including one in four children in schools in Waterford city and county, came as no surprise to the parents in the audience who came to voice their anger and frustration at Government policies.

It also was interesting that only one of the four Deputies representing Waterford turned up to the public meeting, namely, Deputy Ciara Conway of the Labour Party. I commended her on her courage in attending the meeting to face teachers and to listen to the pupils. However, she said a number of interesting things. She asked the teachers and the parents to lobby the Government for the introduction of a wealth tax and for the introduction of higher rates of tax on high income earners who earn more than €100,000. This is the same argument Sinn Féin will make to the Government when presenting its alternative budget. There was a strong sense in the room last night among teachers and parents that while there is no easy way to solve the economic crisis we face, there is a fairer way and asking children to pay the price through cutbacks in education is not the way to do this at a time when there are options, such as those outlined by Deputy Conway to the meeting yesterday, that could be considered by the Government and which would be supported by my party were they to be introduced.

It is appalling that in 21st century Ireland, a country that promised to cherish all the children of the nation equally, so many children are in so-called "super-classes". All the research and data show that educational outcomes are affected by class size. I spoke to many of the teachers afterwards and they spoke of the diverse range of pupils now in the classrooms, from new immigrants to people with special needs or intellectual disabilities. The teachers must manage such diversity in their classrooms in very difficult circumstances in which the school population is growing at a time when an embargo prevents the employment of new teachers. This means bigger class sizes, which is having an impact on the educational outcomes of children. The meeting heard from the parents of children with special needs, including one parent whose child has an intellectual disability and has been obliged to leave mainstream education because of the cutbacks in the school. The meeting heard simple demands from the INTO, which has proposed marrying general allocation hours with resource hours to make it easier for schools to manage. This is a simple demand made of the Government that is not being met. While it is not all about money, obviously the cutbacks are having an impact and the most frustrating points to emerge from the meeting yesterday were the lack of engagement from those Oireachtas Members who were not present and the lack of belief that the Government is listening. It is disappointing that the Minister himself is not responding to this Adjournment matter today.

All I can do is to take to the Minister of State the strong concerns and high level of anger that were articulated by both parents and teachers at last night's meeting in Waterford. I appeal to her that education would not be cut again in the forthcoming budget and that the alternative options for increased taxation that were supported by her colleague from Waterford, Deputy Conway, at last night's meeting would be considered. I appeal to the Government to put in place the fairer choices and options that are open to it and to not cut funding to education, including primary and secondary school education for children, in the forthcoming budget.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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On behalf of my colleague, the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Quinn, who unfortunately cannot be present, I thank Senator Cullinane for giving me the opportunity to outline to this House the position regarding staffing in primary schools. The criteria used for the allocation of teachers to schools are published annually on the Department's website. The key factor for determining the level of staffing resources provided at individual school level is the national staffing schedule for the relevant school year and the specific pupil enrolment in the school in question on 30 September of the previous year. The staffing schedule sets out in a fair and transparent manner the pupil thresholds for the allocation of mainstream classroom posts for all schools and treats all similar types of schools equally, irrespective of location.

It currently operates on the basis of a general average of one classroom teacher for every 28 pupils, with lower thresholds for DEIS band 1 schools. These arrangements include the provision whereby schools experiencing rapid increases in enrolment can apply for additional permanent mainstream posts on developing grounds, using projected enrolment based on that for 30 September of the coming school year. The staffing schedule also includes an appeals mechanism for schools to submit an appeal under certain criteria to an independent appeals board. Details of the criteria for appeal are contained in the staffing schedule, circular 0013/2013. This Government protected front-line services in schools to the greatest extent possible in the 2013 budget and consequently there was no reduction in teacher numbers in primary schools for the 2013-14 school year. The DEIS scheme for disadvantaged schools is also fully protected with no overall changes to staffing levels or funding as a result of that budget.

The budget for education, including the number of teaching posts we can afford to fund in schools, is a matter the Minister for Education and Skills will have to consider with colleagues in Cabinet in the context of the forthcoming budget. The context for any discussion about class sizes is that the Department Education and Skills , like all Departments, is operating within a budgetary programme that is designed to return the Government finances to a sustainable basis. The decisions in regard to such matters will be announced at budget time. The Minister's focus is on ensuring we have school places and teachers for the thousands of additional pupils entering our schools each year. There is no scope to give any consideration to the provision of additional teachers in order to reduce class sizes - anybody who suggests otherwise is not operating in the real world. While difficult choices had to be made to identify savings across the Department's budget, the Government will endeavour to protect front-line education services as best as possible. However, this must be done within the context of bringing our overall public expenditure into line with what we can afford as a country. The challenge will be to ensure that the resources which can be provided are used to maximum effect to achieve the best possible outcome for pupils.

Government decisions on reductions in resources in any area are not taken lightly nor are they taken in isolation from the likely impact. The key challenge is to do this while also improving outcomes. We all have to achieve more with less. Within the schools sector we know from international research that although class size is a factor, the quality of teaching is a far more significant factor in determining outcomes. We therefore have to focus on the drivers of good performance. We need to have the right people becoming teachers. We need the right training for them in college and we need to support them with the right professional development throughout their career. To this end we are making significant changes to both the structure and format of initial teacher education so that our colleges and teachers are comparable with the best in the world.

At school level we need to foster and develop a culture of self-evaluation. In addition to supporting school self-evaluation, our school inspection system will continue to provide robust external evaluation of schools and promote improvement in quality and standards in teaching and learning. This, along with targeted initiatives such as those for improving literacy and numeracy, will help to restore and improve our education system and improve the way it compares with our international competitors.

To reiterate, the Department of Education and Skills treats schools fairly and objectively in allocating resources to them. This is done in a transparent manner using published criteria. Teaching resources are allocated to schools on a school year basis. Unlike most other areas of the public service, teaching vacancies are being filled in accordance with published Department criteria. Within the constraints of the employment control framework schools are permitted to fill teaching vacancies that arise within their approved staffing allocations. The day-to-day management of how teaching resources are used in schools is done at local school level.

David Cullinane (Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Minister of State for taking the Adjournment matter but I strongly object to the comment that those who suggest consideration be given to providing additional teachers in order to reduce class sizes do not live in the real world. That is an appalling statement. It is a just demand made by parents and teachers that we should at least meet the international average and the average across the European Union. To say that parents and teachers who simply want acceptable class sizes in this State do not live in the real is appalling. For them, the real world seems to be where no end of money is available to put into banks to pay back the sins of developers, bankers and speculators, but putting money into education cannot happen. Raising taxation for those with the deepest pockets cannot happen. Increasing the universal social charge for higher earners cannot happen. That is the real world for those parents and teachers. It is the Government which is not living in the real world.

Those politicians who have been in these Houses for far too long, who do not understand what it is like for all the people suffering, are the ones who do not live in the real world. The real world is where those children in supersize classes, not getting the education they deserve, are being asked to pay the price for the sins of others. That is the real world I live in, along with the pupils and teachers of schools all across Waterford city and county.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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I was not talking about the pupils, teachers or parents but about people in political life who know very well the political realities whereby a deal agreed by the former Government with the troika is one to which we must adhere, at least until the end of this year, with regard to how much we cut from public expenditure. Unfortunately, we have to do that whether we like it or not. There is a growing number of children coming into the education system and we must also cater for them.

The other reality is that we spend €1 billion more per month than we take in. I accept that both the Deputy's party and mine would like to take more in taxes from people who are better off, as was also expressed by Deputy Conway last night. However, the reality is that €1 billion per month must be bridged. With a growing school population, reducing class sizes cannot be done, at least at this time. We all want to do it eventually when the country is in a better place, when we create more jobs and are back in control of our own destiny in respect of the economy. Unfortunately, that is the real world in which we live and that is the reason for that statement.