Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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The Order of Business is No. 1, motion of referral to the joint committeeof the fourth programme of law reform prepared by the Law Reform Commission, to be taken without debate on the conclusion of the Order of Business - the motion on the Order Paper incorrectly refers to Dáil Éireann but the correct motion has been circulated on a supplementary Order Paper; No. 2, motion regarding the Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Act 2013 (Commencement) Order 2013, to be taken without debate at the conclusion of No. 1; No. 3, statements on the EU directive on combating the sexual abuse and sexual exploitation of children and child pornography, to be taken at the conclusion of No. 2 and to conclude not later than 1.15 p.m., with the contributions of group spokespersons not to exceed eight minutes, those of all other Senators not to exceed five minutes, and the Minister to be called upon to reply to the debate not later than 1.10 p.m.; and No. 4, statements on turf cutting, to be taken at 2 p.m. and to conclude not later than 4 p.m., with the contributions of group spokespersons not to exceed eight minutes, those of all other Senators not to exceed five minutes, and the Minister to be called upon to reply to the debate not later than 3.50 p.m.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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Following on from the amendment I proposed to the Order of Business yesterday in respect of the cuts to disability services in the HSE north-east region, I gave the example of the €1 million cut to the funding of St. Michael's House which serves 1,500 children and young people with severe disabilities.

The Minister for Health has made no statement on this whatsoever. Respite care is cut and people are being sent home. No additional clients are being taken on by any of these services and the cut was announced in August, backdated to September. Will the Leader inquire of the Minister for Health whether he is due in the House in the next couple of weeks? Thereby I could raise these matters directly with him and he could make the first public comment on these cuts to services for children with severe physical disabilities on which he signed off. I would appreciate it if the Leader could inquire of the Minister's office whether he is due in the Seanad. If not, I intend to propose amendments to the Order of Business every day next week until he decides to grace us with his presence.

No. 2 on the Order of Business relates to the Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Act 2013 and will be taken without debate. I do not believe it is appropriate to allow it to go through without debate. A debate would afford an opportunity for people to ask questions of the Government with regard to the banking inquiry that was announced yesterday, an inquiry that I and my colleagues in Fianna Fáil very much welcome. However, we called for an independent inquiry. From what I understand from media reports, this inquiry will stop at the night of the guarantee, it will not deal predominantly with Anglo Irish Bank, it will not deal with contracts for difference and the Quinn shares in Anglo Irish Bank and it will not deal with the involvement of the European Central Bank and Mr. Trichet following the night of the guarantee. What is more, it will not deal with the Fine Gael-led Government's dealings with the ECB in 2011 or the strong-arm approach of the ECB towards the Government in respect of its plans to burn bank bondholders. If this is true it is very much Hamletwithout the prince.

The timing is relevant. How and when will the inquiry be established? How quickly will it run? What will be the composition of the committee? All these need to be discussed. The people want the truth, and rightly so. As a citizen, I want the truth as well. If we want a political witch trial, we can have that too. My party has said that we will co-operate fully and look forward to any inquiry the Government sets up. I put it to the Leader that it is imperfect, that most independent commentators have said that an independent inquiry along the lines of the Leveson inquiry that can be done quickly and that would have expertise available is preferable.

I have another question for the Leader. Will the current members of the Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, if that is where the inquiry is to sit, have the expertise to question Allied Irish Banks, Bank of Ireland and others involved? Will they have the legal advice with regard to not straying into Anglo Irish Bank territory? If the Government really wanted the truth and if it cannot deal with Anglo Irish Bank, why does it not wait until those cases are discharged? It makes no sense. The inquiry will see AIB and Bank of Ireland coming in, stating they did not ask for a guarantee and dumping all over Anglo Irish Bank. The inquiry will have no interaction with the ECB and there will be no look at the 12 month review of the guarantee which, I believe, is particularly important. On that basis I am asking the Leader to permit a debate today on No. 2 in order that we can discuss these items. That would be the appropriate thing to do.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Is that an amendment the Senator is proposing, or is he simply opposing?

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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I am asking the Leader. I propose an amendment, that No. 2 be taken with debate, that time be allowed today in order that we can tease these things out and in order that I do not have to read about it in the newspapers or hear about it on the radio. This is still a House of the Oireachtas, regardless of what the Government wishes to do. What is ironic about the banking inquiry and what the Government is looking to set up is that it proves and will prove, probably, that there were not enough checks and balances in our regulators. This is the same Government that wishes to remove checks and balances in the Oireachtas.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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I was going simply to welcome the announcement of the setting up of the bank inquiry. Everyone wishes to see an inquiry into the events, particularly leading up to the night of the bank guarantee. That is rightly the preliminary focus and it should be the first focus of the inquiry when it is set up. However, in respect of the issue about No. 2, I do not believe it is appropriate that we should have a debate. It is appropriate that we would have a debate about the shape of the inquiry but I do not believe we should be hanging it on the hook of the commencement order for the Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Act 2013. I do not see the point of that.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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Why not?

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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The motion before us, which the Leader has proposed to be taken without debate is simply the commencement order. It simply notes and approves the commencement order of the Act. I do not believe we should be looking to delay the commencement order.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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We can debate it until 9 p.m.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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I agree, however, that a debate about the nature of the banking inquiry would be useful and perhaps we might have that soon. I understand that, as yet, it has not been decided precisely which entity will take it, whether it would be the Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform or a sub-committee of that committee. I agree that it is important that the joint committee or sub-committee members would be resourced adequately and would get the expertise available to enable a thorough investigation. I believe the focus is correct. It is appropriate that the initial focus would be on the agreement to make or decide upon the bank guarantee. That is the right focus because so much stems from that. There is also the added difficulty that to focus on Anglo Irish Bank has the potential to jeopardise three trials which are pending.

It is timely that we saw yesterday the publication of the Director of Public Prosecutions annual report in whose foreword she specifically warns the media of the need for vigilance and that they do not jeopardise trials with adverse pretrial publicity. She referred to the risk of the delay of trials, even indefinitely, and pointed out that this risk increases as the trial date approaches and publicity surrounds it. Were there to be an inquiry focusing on Anglo Irish Bank in the immediate run-up to the trials of senior figures in Anglo Irish Bank, it could have a serious effect on the progress of those trials.

I have said it before in the House and I will say it again, that while everyone wishes to see a thorough inquiry carried out, the priority for everyone is to see the criminal justice process being brought to bear where appropriate and necessary. People want to see a resolution of the criminal justice process and we should not be doing anything that might delay or jeopardise the criminal justice process, where it is appropriate and has been initiated, as it has in respect of particular people in Anglo Irish Bank. We need to be careful. It is not that Anglo Irish Bank will not or should not be investigated by an Oireachtas inquiry; it should be.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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It will not be in this inquiry.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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However, the timing of that investigation is critical. It is quite right to look at postponing that particular focus or tranche of the investigation or inquiry until after the criminal trial.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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It is not right at all. That would leave out a sizeable part.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator Bacik, without interruption.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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No, let me finish.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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That is why we need to debate this.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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It is very important.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator Bacik, without interruption, please.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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I agree with Senator O'Brien that we need to debate this but I do not believe we need to debate the commencement order. I am keen to see this Act commenced quickly, as do most.

Yesterday, Senator Mac Conghail paid an eloquent tribute to Seamus Heaney and I add my voice to that. His untimely death brought about a major national outpouring of grief and it touched many people who had been moved by his poetry. I express my sympathy to his family.

Jillian van Turnhout (Independent)
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I support Senator O'Brien in his call for No. 2 to be discussed. It is something we should do to ensure any inquiry is as we intend it and as we would expect. Perhaps it cannot be facilitated today but if there were a commitment, I would be supportive of it.

I commend the French Senate, which yesterday banned beauty pageants for children under 16 years. In fact, it will impose prison sentences. This is about protecting childhood. Beauty pageants prematurely force children into roles of seduction that seriously harm their development. I am most disappointed to note that this weekend for the first time in Ireland there will be such a beauty pageant. It is not a welcome development. I wish to send a clear message that it should be cancelled and that we should not be having these types of beauty pageants in our country. We should be protecting childhood.

I thank the Leader for putting on the agenda for discussion today the EU directive on combatting the sexual abuse and exploitation of children and child pornography. As colleagues are aware, in February 2012 the Independent group put forward a comprehensive motion that dealt with the directive, but nothing has happened since. I welcome that it is on the agenda today. I have published in advance a report on effective strategies to tackle online child abuse material. We should remember that a child abuse image is a crime scene. It is a digital record of some of the most heinous crimes against children. This is about protecting real children from real abuse in the real world. I have copies of the report if colleagues would like to see it in advance of our discussion at 11.45 a.m. We should send a clear message to the Government that we need to ensure we have filtering in place to block online child abuse material. I thank the Leader for placing this matter on the agenda. However, we must do more than just discuss it.

Sean Barrett (Independent)
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Two matters arise on foot of yesterday's Order of Business. The first relates to the appearance of a 20-page property supplement in one of the daily newspapers. As I informed the Leader yesterday, there is a need to ensure banking reform. We have tabled two items on the Order Paper, Nos. 26 and 29, which deal with that matter. The same accountants, bankers and auctioneers who created the property bubble in the past are going to construct another one. There is a need to consider the position of Ireland after the bailout and to introduce measures to prevent a recurrence of the crash.

The second matter which arises relates to the request from the House that the Referendum Commission investigate the position with regard to the figure of €20 million which has been advertised as the cost of running the Seanad. I would challenge that figure in any public debate and perhaps - as the current edition of Phoenix magazine suggests - the Taoiseach might come out of hiding to discuss the matter. In the document it is currently circulating to every household throughout the country, the Referendum Commission fails to mention voters in the Six Counties or those from overseas. Does the commission not believe the latter to be important? Is it of the view that those in every household throughout the country should not know about them? I understand that the chairperson of the Referendum Commission will be appearing on "Morning Ireland" on Monday next and I am of the view that she should provide answers to the questions I have posed and respond to the Oireachtas immediately, particularly as there is very little time remaining in respect of this matter.

In his book, Reforming Political Institutions: Ireland In Comparative Perspective, which was published yesterday, Professor John Coakley states that the bold commitment of the Fine Gael-Labour coalition to getting rid of the Seanad as one of three urgent parliamentary reform issues implicitly ignored the painstaking deliberations - extending over the past 16 years - of earlier parliamentary evaluations of the composition and role of the second Chamber and sidelined the Convention on the Constitution. Professor Coakley also notes that in light of the long discussion of the merits of second chambers inside and outside Ireland, the fate of Seanad Éireann surely deserved more sustained and balanced consideration before the Dáil began to discuss practical arrangements for consigning it to history. By our estimates there are 87 countries throughout the world which have bicameral systems of parliament. All of the G10 have such systems and 17 of the G20 have them. Some 27 countries with greater GDPs than Ireland have such systems and 58 with lower GDPs have them. Why is it that everyone sees this matter differently to the Taoiseach and why will he not debate it? In the United States, on which we rely for foreign direct investment to an overwhelming degree, 49 of the 50 states have bicameral systems. The exception in this regard is Nebraska, which only contains 0.6% of the population of the country. It can be stated, therefore, that 99.4% of the population of the US disagree with the Taoiseach. I hope they inform him of that fact when he visits the country on St. Patrick's Day next year.

On the leaving certificate, we have discussed subjects such as mathematics and history. Dr. Kevin Denny indicated yesterday that 14 of the 17 questions on this year's leaving certificate economics paper were faulty. According to an article in the Irish Independent he said "the most serious problems were with a question on trade/competitiveness/slowdown in the euro-growth areas, which dealt with a cornerstone of economics, the law of comparative advantage". If this is what is happening in schools, it is no wonder we have difficulties with economic policy in society in general. I informed the Minister for Education and Skills last evening that he must consult people such as Dr. Denny who are directly involved in the classroom. That to which I refer is happening all too frequently. There is no point in Ministers uttering clichés about Europe's youngest young people and the world's most advanced education system when they will not address the serious problems relating to subjects such as economics, mathematics and history.

Caít Keane (Fine Gael)
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I support Senator van Turnhout who brought to the attention of the House that the French Senate has banned the exploitation of children via beauty pageants. This House should take the lead by ensuring that such pageants should not be tolerated in Ireland. I will be travelling to Brussels tomorrow to meet Commissioner Malmström and discuss with her and Lord Anthony Steyn from the UK the issues of human trafficking, child trafficking and sexual abuse. This is a huge issue and it is not discussed often enough. I support Senator van Turnhout in the comments she made about it and I compliment her on the report she published.

I wish to bring to the attention of the House the fact that a Galway-based charity is developing an app to try to map every location in Ireland at which defibrillators are located. The charity to which I refer is Helping Hearts, which is seeking support from the public, the media and everyone in politics in order to publicise this matter via Facebook, Twitter, etc. We are all aware of the value of defibrillators. Every Government Department and local authority has a role to play in the context of funding the provision of defibrillators. No one knows where these defibrillators are currently located but with the help of the mobile phone new app being developed by Helping Hearts, people will be able to locate the nearest one and help those who are in trouble. I congratulate Helping Hearts and encourage everyone to give this charity a helping hand in publicising the app to which I refer, which will provide a badly-needed service.

Labhrás Ó Murchú (Fianna Fail)
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Once again Senator Barrett has put forward some very interesting statistics with regard to the forthcoming referendum. I am of the views that those statistics are factual in nature. If one compares them to the dearth of information being made available by those who support the abolition of the Seanad, it is quite clear that - as I said yesterday - there was a need for either a White Paper or a Green Paper to be brought forward in order to guide and assist us in this debate. I hope, even at this late stage, that some effort will be made to ensure honesty in respect of this matter. The figure of €20 million is now out of court and the argument that there will be fewer politicians and other matters should have been addressed previously.

Most people will agree that there is a need for a banking inquiry. I am disappointed that people have put forward the idea that the inquiry will be used in order to damage one political party or another. The main focus of the inquiry should be to obtain answers in respect of what caused the banking debacle which almost brought the country to economic ruin. The debacle to which I refer has also caused people to suffer. I refer to those who lost investments, whose pensions have been affected and who have been obliged to close down their businesses. If the proposed inquiry is not used for the purpose to which I refer, then we will only be rubbing salt into the wounds of those thousands of people who have suffered. Deputy Ross made a number of comments on this matter this morning. When the Deputy was a Member of this House, he was the most focused and informed among us in respect of this issue and he wrote extensively on it in the Sunday Independent. The Deputy raised the alarm with regard to the inquiry earlier this morning when he stated that by not involving the former Anglo Irish Bank in it, all that will happen is that people will be provided with an opportunity to grandstand. The inquiry is going to be about posturing and the people will not accept that. I hope that a great deal of consideration has been given by the Government, its advisers and anyone else who has a role to play to the form the inquiry is going to take. I hope the matter has been well thought out. If, as it likely, the inquiry runs into a cul-de-sac or if it is placed on the long finger - there are some who have suggested that it will not commence its deliberations for 12 months - I can inform that Leader that this is not what the people are seeking. What they want are real answers and a forensic examination of everything relating to and everybody involved with this issue. I stand open to contradiction but, having listened to Deputy Ross - who seems to be so well informed - I am somewhat concerned that the inquiry is not going to lead to where it should lead, that it is not going to provide the necessary answers and that it is not going to bring solace to the many thousands who have suffered as a result of the banking debacle.

Aideen Hayden (Labour)
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Yesterday the Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, noted that in circumstances where repossession could possibly occur, the mortgage-to-rent option would in many cases be open to people who are facing the prospect of losing their homes.

I am very concerned by that comment given that by August 2013, only 60 of the 1,332 distressed borrowers who had applied for the mortgage-to-rent scheme had been successful. There is every reason to believe the banks are standing in the way of the success of the scheme as they effectively control whether someone can access it. I ask the Leader to invite the Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, to the House to outline how he envisages the position of distressed borrowers will be addressed and engage with Senators on the reasons progress on the mortgage-to-rent scheme has been so slow.

The Minister lauded split mortgages as a potential solution for many distressed borrowers. I would like to question him on the low uptake of the split mortgage option. In my experience, one of the reasons for this has been the lack of clarity about what distressed borrowers are being offered under split mortgage arrangements. Specifically, banks are permitted to engage continuously with the borrower, for example, where he or she secures a little extra overtime or perhaps receives a few bob from a deceased relative. The strategy being adopted by the banks is that they are entitled to take everything when someone secures a little extra income. It is not surprising, therefore, that borrowers are not prepared to engage with the split mortgage option.

I note the Insolvency Service of Ireland is drawing up guidelines on split mortgages in respect of the service it provides under the insolvency arrangements. I understand this document is due for publication very shortly. I call for a debate on the resolutions banks are offering customers. The guidelines the Insolvency Service of Ireland published on reasonable living expenses have been very helpful for those who are engaging with banks on a first level basis.

Trevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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Ba mhaith liom i dtosach báire tagairt beag a dhéanamh don chlár reachtaíochta a fuair muid inné ón bPríomh Aoire. Táim cinnte go raibh cuid mhaith rudaí in easnamh, ach thug mé faoi deara go raibh dhá Bhille in easnamh, Billí a bhí geallta dúinn don fhómhar seo, ceann amháin a bhain le Acht na dTeangacha Oifigiúla agus ceann a bhain le cúrsaí inimirce.

I refer to two Bills which were promised by the autumn. While they feature on the list of proposed legislation produced yesterday, they have not yet been produced. The official languages Bill has been pushed back to next year as the heads have not yet been agreed. I seek clarification on the reasons the Bill has not yet been produced, as promised. A consultation process lasting for more than 18 months was carried out. I ask that the Minister publish the submissions and subsequent report, as promised.

I am also concerned about the promised immigration, residence and protection Bill, which comes within the remit of the Department of Justice and Equality. The Minister indicated the previous Bill was not fit for purpose and would be redrafted. He also stated it would be produced in the autumn but there is no sign of it. The only Bill referred to in the list is the old Immigration, Residence and Protection Bill from 2010, which he intends to completely rewrite. This is very important legislation.

The House will hold important debates this week and next week. Last year at budget time, we agreed to hold a series of structured debates on budgetary issues prior to the budget. I am disappointed this process did not commence this week and hope it will begin next week. While Senators may jump up and down discussing the possible abolition of the Seanad, what I am hearing on the ground is that people are much more worried about how the budget will impact on them. I note from the pre-budget submission of the Irish National Organisation of the Unemployed, which was published yesterday, that the organisation is very concerned about the budget. We are receiving a large number of presentations on the budget from various lobby groups and it is not good enough to have so little debate on the issue in the Houses. We need to hold specific debates on all elements of the budget, as promised before the summer recess. If the Seanad is to show it is of any value, it must debate these urgent issues, commencing now and continuing to budget day and beyond.

Michael Comiskey (Fine Gael)
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I call on the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government to examine the new rules governing off-road declarations for vehicles. The new system is causing great anguish and has resulted in long queues forming in county council offices. We heard on a radio programme this morning, for example, that Kerry County Council offices are not able to deal with the queues of people seeking to tax vehicles. Currently, one can have a garda sign an RF100A form if a vehicle was off the road, after which the owner could have the vehicle taxed, but this will no longer be possible from 1 October. Senators are receiving many telephone calls from farmers who have had tractors on their land which they may only take onto the roads once or twice each year. In many cases they do not have a tax book for the vehicle or may have lost it. It would be useful to extend the deadline by one month to give people a chance to address this issue. I have also heard of cases where local authority offices have closed promptly at 4 p.m., leaving people who have been queuing to have their motor tax affairs sorted to return the following day.

Young people who have emigrated and may have a vehicle at home should be given an opportunity to tax their vehicle for one month, rather than the minimum period of three months. This would allow them to tax their vehicle when home on holidays for several weeks. It is bad enough that they have to emigrate. We should not take money out of their pockets when they return home and wish to use their vehicles for a short period. I ask for a debate with the Minister on the issues I have raised.

Paschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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I second the amendment to the Order of Business proposed by Senator Darragh O'Brien. I concur with the Senator's comments on the commencement order. I also share the views expressed by Senator Bacik on the need to ensure no action is taken that would interfere with the criminal proceedings taken against individuals in the banking sector. When one discusses this issue with members of the public one finds that they speak not of what occurred on the night of the banking guarantee but what happened afterwards, especially in the banks. The views expressed in this regard are sustainable and valid.

I am concerned by today's media reports which indicate the Government is already engaging in spin with regard to the terms of the banking inquiry. It seems the inquiry's remit will not extend beyond the night the bank guarantee was introduced and it will not take into account the findings of two reports, the Regling-Nyberg and Honohan reports, which have already been published. Both reports, which are based on interviews with economists and others, conclude there is no smoking gun or information that is not already in the public domain, whether published in book form or broadcast in the media. The question one must ask, therefore, is whether the Government is indulging in a political witch-hunt? Is the purpose of the inquiry to attack Fianna Fáil rather than finding out the truth? It is notable, for example, that the media are reporting that the inquiry will start in the months immediately preceding the local and European elections.

We must have an open and transparent debate on what will be the precise terms of reference of the inquiry, what it will investigate and who will be called before it. It is vital that the immediate aftermath of the banking guarantee is also investigated. As previous speakers noted, people suffered as a result of the banking collapse. Notwithstanding the political decisions that were taken, the pertinent issue is the collapse of the banks. What happened in the banks and what were they doing? On the night of the banking guarantee and the days preceding it, the banks lied through their teeth to the Government of the day in respect of what they were seeking. Anglo Irish Bank, in particular, published public relations documents a week or two weeks before the bank guarantee in which it encouraged people to buy shares in what was already a discredited bank.

Jimmy Harte (Labour)
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I agree with most previous speakers on the tone of the debate on the forthcoming referendum. I refer in particular to posters stating that fewer politicians will be good for the country and will save €20 million. If we do not have respect for ourselves, we cannot expect members of the public to have respect for us. The posters in question should be removed as they are an insult to every current and former Member of Seanad and Dáil Éireann and all those who serve on county and town councils. The implication of the message they portray is that fewer politicians will result in greater democracy. The Arab spring was the result of people seeking to rid their countries of dictators and increase democracy. The West, including Ireland, is encouraging greater democracy in these countries. However, we seem to be doing the opposite in the referendum campaign.

We seem to be putting out a narrative that we are getting rid of more politicians. The end-game there is that only one politician would be left in the country, which would be dangerous.

I ask the Leader to invite the Minister for Justice and Equality to come to the House to explain why on 30 August the Insolvency Service of Ireland advised people it would charge them €500 to apply for a personal insolvency certificate. This did not come through the Houses of the Oireachtas. I spoke to a personal insolvency practitioner yesterday, who advised me that before the process can start the client must pay €500 to the Insolvency Service of Ireland, which is separate from the fees, VAT and any other costs. I have a copy of the document if Members wish to view it. It was signed by the Minister on 30 August. Many people considering personal insolvency are unaware that they must give a cheque for €500 to the Insolvency Service of Ireland before they can progress to the next stage. The Minister should come to the House to explain why this has happened. Deputy Spring will also raise the matter today in the Dáil. It was done during August when we were all away. It was also done under the radar because there have been no media reports on it. This €500 is in addition to the other costs. It was not advised to us or discussed in any forum.

Terry Brennan (Fine Gael)
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At the risk of being accused of being personal or parochial, as a former ESB employee, I am very concerned over how my former colleagues are being treated by this and the previous Government with regard to their defined-benefit pension scheme. Like all ESB employees, I paid almost 7% of gross wages for 40 years to the scheme. Sadly many of my colleagues have not reached retirement age having contributed that amount of their salaries for many years.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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That matter might be suitable as a matter on the Adjournment.

Terry Brennan (Fine Gael)
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It is not suitable.

We are told by the Government that there are increasing funding difficulties with pension schemes owing to people living longer and the financial downturn. It is no fault of any of those who contributed for many years. A contribution of 7% was and still is a significant amount to pay towards a retirement scheme. I call on the Leader to have an urgent debate with the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Rabbitte.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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With the greatest respect to the leader of the Opposition, Senator Darragh O'Brien, I would say that we are ad idem on the banking inquiry. Everybody wants to get to the unvarnished truth and nothing must be excluded. As we all agree, no one in these Houses would wish to prejudice cases that are in the pipeline. I do not believe representatives of that bank were present on the night of the bank guarantee - it was primarily the two pillar banks. If it is to proceed prior to those cases being concluded, obviously it cannot deal with them. However, nothing is agreed yet and this is only a commencement order. With respect, we do not need a debate on what is before us today on the Order Paper which is just a commencement order.

No one wishes that anything be excluded and of course we all want to get at the full truth. To hell with spin - excuse my French. We do not need to go down that road. We can debate this fully when we know more, but there is no final decision at the moment and we are somewhat in the dark. I would urge caution and we should whisht for a while. We can proceed as soon as we know and then have the debate.

Catherine Noone (Fine Gael)
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I support Senator van Turnhout on the issue of child pageants. We should follow the lead of the French Senate on this; they are hideous competitions and should not be encouraged.

This morning the Irish Cancer Society has highlighted research into the attitude of teenagers towards smoking. There are some interesting findings especially on plain packaging, for which we intend to legislate. The research found that cigarette brands encourage teens to start smoking, which is no great surprise. However, it also found that non-smokers would be discouraged from even trying them and current smokers would quit if cigarettes were in plain packets. The research highlighted that young people are the primary target for marketing by the tobacco industry, which, according to the HSE's national office of tobacco control, needs to recruit 50 new smokers a day to replace those who die or those who manage to quit.

More than any other tobacco control measure to date the removal of branding from cigarettes would threaten the business model that has enabled tobacco companies to increase profitability by recruiting new young smokers. The research follows the recent introduction of plain olive-coloured packaging in Australia. It is not completely plain, because it also contains horrendous pictures of the illnesses that can ensue from smoking. Introduced in January, it has been shown to be very effective especially with younger people. While this has worked, some in the tobacco industry have raised concern about the potential for a higher incidence of counterfeiting. We need to stand up to the tobacco industry which manages to lobby under all sorts of headings to persuade us that certain measures, which we might try to introduce and which would ultimately decrease their profits, are a bad idea. We need to be really strong when the legislation comes before the Houses.

If done properly as has been done in Australia, plain packaging can also incorporate greater security and anti-counterfeiting measures. Yesterday we had a very good debate on the report of the Seanad Public Consultation Committee. One of its key recommendations was plain packaging for cigarettes and now is the time to push ahead with it. We need to stand up to the tobacco industry and the various headings under which it lobbies.

Michael Mullins (Fine Gael)
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I ask the Leader to organise a debate on mental health services with the Minister of State, Deputy Kathleen Lynch, with particular reference to the implementation of A Vision for Change. Members will be aware of the great concern in east County Galway and Ballinasloe in particular following the HSE's recent decision to close 22 acute beds in St. Brigid's Hospital in Ballinasloe. Last night all the public representatives from Galway and Roscommon had an open and frank discussion with the Minister of State and HSE management in Galway and Roscommon and nationally. I call on the Minister of State to ensure that HSE management in Galway and Roscommon now enter into an extensive period of discussion with all stakeholders - employees, unions, service users and their families, public representatives, and community leaders - to ensure that all community-based mental health services are put in place before any acute beds are taken out of the system.

There has been considerable concern in the community mainly because of an information deficit. The HSE is doing a particularly poor job in communicating its very ambitious plans to implement A Vision for Change. At last night's meeting there was total unanimity over the need to implement all aspects of A Vision for Change. I want a frank discussion with the Minister of State on the progress we are making on the implementation of A Vision for Change, particularly in Galway and Roscommon.

On a sporting note, I wish you, a Chathaoirligh, and the Mayo footballers well at the weekend. I hope they emulate the wonderful achievement of the Galway camogie team last weekend-----

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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I wish to disassociate myself from those remarks.

Michael Mullins (Fine Gael)
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----- when two fine young ladies, namely, Lorraine Ryan and Sinead Keane-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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This is not relevant to the Order of Business.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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It will not be relevant next week either, when the Dubs win.

Michael Mullins (Fine Gael)
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----- under manager Tony Ward brought two trophies to the west and gave us a great lift. I hope the Mayo people do the same on Sunday.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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While this is not relevant to the Order of Business, all tickets that can be given to the Cathaoirleach will be greatly appreciated.

Jim D'Arcy (Fine Gael)
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Senator Mullins has referred to mental health issues and I welcome the putting in place by Fine Gael of counselling services for Deputies and Senators who may be experiencing difficulties in their professional or personal lives in the wake of the tragic death last year of the Minister of State, Shane McEntee. This is a welcome development that should be extended to everyone in the Houses. It is particularly welcome in a week in which the Dundalk football manager, Stephen Kenny, has become patron of the SOSAD organisation, involving those whose sons and daughters have committed suicide. Its founder, Peter Moroney, stated he was absolutely thrilled when the Dundalk manager accepted an invitation to become patron of the body. He pointed out that suicide is a leading cause of death among young people and increasingly is being reported among the elderly, who often are dealing with issues of loneliness and isolation.

However, to revert to Deputies and Senators, I refer to the protests that took place yesterday. I went out only to be abused by a person from Dundalk who I knew by sight. Had I met him in Haggardstown, I would have done a John Prescott on him; no problem. However, Members are under pressure and in that context, I ask all Members to support the See the Light political walk in aid of mental health wellness and Aware, which is being organised by Oireachtas staff and by Miriam McLoughlin, from Dublin to Navan next weekend, that is, on 27 and 28 September. Incidentally, I have to hand a sponsorship card if anyone wishes to give me a few bob for it. While I acknowledge such debates have taken place previously, such issues are coming on-stream and good mental health is now part of daily parlance, albeit more needs to be done, and I would welcome a debate on mental health.

Michael D'Arcy (Fine Gael)
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I wish to raise the issue of the VAT rate within the hospitality sector and it is particularly relevant to so do before the budget. Figures that are being quoted suggest that an additional 9,000 jobs have been created in the hospitality sector. While they cannot all be due to the benefits the sector has experienced following the reduction of its VAT rate, some of them certainly are. There is a concern that jobs would be lost in that sector were the rate to revert to 13.5% in this budget and Members should take the opportunity next week to have that conversation with the Minister for Finance.

In a brief point on mental health services being reconfigured in other areas, I can only give Members the experience of County Wexford on foot of the reconfiguration of its mental health services and the closure of St. Senan's hospital, which was the mental health acute admissions unit which, with the A Vision for Change strategy, has been excellent. Moreover, I advise Deputies, Senators and councillors to take on board the A Vision for Change viewpoint regarding the new areas that can be introduced and the reconfiguring of the services into the community. In this context, the services now being provided in Wexford are superior to what had been in place prior to the changes. There always will be concerns and if issues are being communicated poorly by the Health Service Executive, it should deal with that. However, I can only give an honest appraisal of what I have seen in the constituency in which I live.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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Senator Darragh O'Brien has raised the question of disability services in the north east. As the Minister is not due to come into the House in the next two weeks to the best of my knowledge, I suggest the Senator should table an Adjournment motion on the matter to get an adequate response. As for No. 2 on the agenda, it is a replacement order for the one that was moved yesterday and which contained only a typographical error. Consequently, I am surprised-----

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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While the Government did not announce the banking inquiry the night before last, it did so yesterday.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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While I am surprised that it was not raised at that time, I certainly will accede to the request to have a debate on the matter. I have arranged it for next Tuesday evening at 7 p.m.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Leader.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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I note Senator Bacik's points on the banking inquiry and the criminal justice process. Senator van Turnhout and a number of other Members - I believe Senators Keane and Noone also raised the point - spoke on the subject of beauty pageants for children, which must be noted. The European Union directive in respect of child abuse and related matters will be debated in the Chamber later today and I compliment Senator van Turnhout on the excellent report she has prepared. It would be helpful for everyone involved to have to hand a copy of Senator van Turnhout's report in this regard. I note Senator Barrett's points regarding the Seanad referendum. In particular, I note the points made to the Minister yesterday on consulting with people in the classroom and I hope the Minister will take up the points made during the aforementioned debate.

Senator Keane spoke on defibrillators and the development of a new app on locations for defibrillators. I join with the Senator in congratulating Helping Hearts on this excellent initiative. Senator Ó Murchú made reference to the banking inquiry and as I have indicated, Members will have a debate on No. 2 next week. Like him, however, I hope there will not be any grandstanding or posturing on a banking inquiry and that such activity will not be tolerated. Senator Hayden spoke on the lack of progress with regard to the mortgage-to-rent scheme and the low take-up of split mortgages. The insolvency arrangements report mentioned by the Senator will be published soon and I will try to get the Minister for Finance to come in to discuss that report on its publication.

Senator Ó Clochartaigh raised the delays in respect of the official languages Bill and the reason it is not being introduced in the autumn session. He also inquired as to the status of the promised immigration, residence and protection Bill. While I will find out the reason for the delays in respect of both Bills for the Senators, I point out the Government has published 30 legislative items on the A list alone for the autumn session. This is a highly significant volume of legislation for the session and it is very important that one gets the correct legislation and that it is proper before it comes before either of the Houses. However, I will find out the status of the two Bills mentioned.

Senator Comiskey raised the issue of off-road taxation of vehicles. Members debated the Bill on that matter several months ago. There is always a last-minute rush with regard to people getting their taxation in order. I am unsure whether there is a plan to extend the deadline on these vehicles but I certainly will take up the matter with the Minister. Again, I note Senator Mooney's comments on the banking inquiry and Members will have a debate on that legislation next week. Senator Harte referred to fees for the personal insolvency service and again, I suggest the Senator might table an Adjournment motion on the subject to get the reasons from the Minister. Senator Brennan mentioned the ESB and defined benefit pensions.

There have been many problems with defined benefit pensions. Many people have commented on the problems of the Waterford Crystal workers' scheme where people who had paid into it for 30 and 40 years found they could get only about 20% of their pension. That will be rectified. The workers won their case in the European courts and the courts must now decide the actual percentage they will receive. I hope they will get their benefits sooner rather than later, some percentage of them even before going to court. As to the ESB situation, I am not sure whether the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Rabbitte, is the Minister concerned - it may be the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Burton. I will get the details from the Senator after the Order of Business.

I noted Senator Coghlan's points on the banking inquiry to the effect that we must not prejudice cases that may come before the courts.

Senator Noone spoke about the marketing campaign of the tobacco industry; we all know the strength of that lobby. She made relevant points about having plain packaging on tobacco products. There was an excellent debate in the Chamber yesterday on the Seanad Public Consultation Committee's report and I hope the Government will take on board the action plan that committee has set out in its report. I was glad the Minister of State, Deputy Alex White, commented very favourably on the report and that he indicated action would be taken on several of the recommendations made by the Seanad committee.

Senator Mullins and others spoke about mental health services and the Vision for Change programme. I agree with the Senator that the HSE should have greater consultation with communities before it implements any actions in that regard. I also noted Senator Michael D'Arcy's comments on mental health services in Wexford, which have improved significantly. However, there is a need for further debate. The Minister of State, Deputy Kathleen Lynch, has been very helpful, and has attended the House on many occasions. I am sure she will come to the House again to discuss the question of progress on A Vision for Change and I will try to arrange that debate.

Senator Jim D'Arcy made a number of points on counselling services for Members and the SOSAD Foundation set up in Dundalk. He asked people to support the See the Light walk, which is also for a very good cause. The Senator also mentioned the reduced VAT rate of 9% which the hospitality sector enjoys and the creation of more than 9,000 jobs. It will be very difficult for the Minister for Finance to decide whether this rate will remain in the budget. The cost to the taxpayer of reducing that VAT rate to 9% is more than €300 million annually so obviously the Minister must weigh up the benefits and see whether the rate can be retained.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator Darragh O'Brien has proposed an amendment to the Order of Business. "That No. 2 be debated today." Is the amendment being pressed?

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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No. I thank the Leader for acceding to the request for a debate next Tuesday, so I withdraw the amendment.