Martin Conway (Fine Gael)
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I welcome the Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Costello to the House to discuss this sensitive matter. I am pleased the Minister of State, Deputy Costello is dealing with it because he is a Minister of State associated with the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade. I have been contacted in recent weeks concerning a case, the details of which have been supplied. I do not intend to put the names of the two children in question on the record of the House at this stage, although I understand the names are in the public domain.

I understand the two children have been removed from the jurisdiction illegally by their mother, although the father of one of the children has custody of that child. A series of legal issues pertain. Certainly, the law has been broken on several fronts. I understand the children were removed in spite of the fact that there are court orders. I understand correct documentation was not used to get the children out of the country.

I appreciate the distress this has caused the two fathers in question in this case, as does everyone in the House. It seems they have made little or no progress in attempts to get the children returned. At this stage they are in a desperate state of mind and need accelerated intervention from the Government and the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade. I understand they have been in contact with the Irish Consulate in Zambia and senior officials in the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade. This has probably got to the stage where we need those at the top of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade to intervene directly with the Government and senior officials in Zambia to get these children home. They are both Irish citizens with Irish passports. This sad and sorry episode must be brought to a senior level at this stage to try to bring it to a speedy conclusion and return the children safely to their families.

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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I can confirm that the relevant Irish Embassy and the consular assistance section of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade in Dublin are aware of this case. It involves two children of different fathers. All possible consular assistance is being provided to the respective fathers.

On 4 April 2013 the consular assistance section was contacted by the father of the older child who reported the possible abduction of his son by the child's mother. He was advised to report this to the Garda and he confirmed that this was his intention. The limits of consular assistance in such situations were outlined to him. It was explained that the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade has no power to remove a child from a foreign jurisdiction. He was informed that if the child's mother was unwilling to allow the child to return to Ireland, then the matter would have to be resolved through the local courts. He was also informed that the country to which the mother was understood to have taken his son is not a party to the Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction.

The convention is an agreement to ensure the return of a child who has been removed from the country where he or she normally lives to another country without the consent of one of the parents. Under the terms of the convention, children abducted in this manner are returned to their country of habitual residence in order that the courts there can decide on issues regarding custody and guardianship.

On 12 April 2013, the father of the older child contacted officials at our embassy and informed them that he understood that the mother had also taken a second younger son of a different father out of the country. He stated that the father of the younger son had reported this to the Garda and that both fathers were co-ordinating their efforts for the safe return of the two children to Ireland. On the same date, Garda officers confirmed to the consular assistance section that they had been informed of both cases by the fathers and that they were following up through Interpol channels.

The Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade understands that at the time of the abduction the father of the older child had, and continues to have, a court order granting him custody, with visitation rights granted to the mother. The court order stipulates that the child "not be removed out of the jurisdiction of the court without leave of the court".

A court hearing relating to custody of the younger child had already been scheduled at the time of the abduction. It is also our understanding that the father of the younger child was subsequently granted guardianship shortly after the abduction. On 17 April, the father of the older child contacted the Irish Embassy to further discuss the abduction of his son. Both fathers subsequently provided the embassy with details of the mother's family situation in the country to which the mother is understood to have taken the children. Initially the fathers were hoping to ensure the safe return of their sons through negotiation but this has not, as yet, met with success. Our embassy and the consular assistance section have advised that they engaged the services of a local lawyer and the embassy has provided a list of reputable lawyers. In May, the head of the consular division offered to meet with the father of the older child to discuss the matter further and this offer is still available to both fathers.

I can assure the Senator that all possible consular assistance will continue to be provided in this very difficult case and that my officials will continue to liaise with the fathers of the children named by the Senator.

Martin Conway (Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister of State for his detailed response on this very sensitive and serious issue. My perspective on it is that two Irish citizens have been abducted in spite of the fact one father has guardianship and the other has custody. I understand the situation in regard to the Hague Convention and so forth and that it is tricky. I know the offer of assistance from a senior official has been made but if there is no success with the local lawyer, with whom I understand they have engaged, and other personnel in the country to which the children have been taken, will the Minister of State, through his good offices, arrange a meeting in Dublin between the most senior official in the Department and the two fathers when they return to see if assistance can be provided to deal with this situation? I fear it will be a long and difficult road and that the two fathers in question will need every assistance they can get from the Government.

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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I thank the Senator for those supplementary remarks. It is difficult to effect an easy resolution because the country is not party to the Hague Convention and the difficulty dealing with the abducting spouse. A situation of this nature can only be dealt with properly through the courts and that is why the consular assistance service has made available a list of suitable lawyers, which has not yet been taken up to the parents involved. The offer of a meeting with the two fathers has been made. When the fathers return to Ireland, I would be more than happy to arrange for them to meet the most appropriate official here.