Seanad debates

Wednesday, 20 February 2013

Future of Further Education and Training: Statements

 

12:00 pm

Photo of Diarmuid WilsonDiarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
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It is my great pleasure to welcome a former Member of the House and now Minister of State at the Department of Education and Skills, Deputy Ciarán Cannon.

Photo of Ciarán CannonCiarán Cannon (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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I am pleased to have the opportunity to address the House on the various Government initiatives being taken in the area of training and skills and further education and how this will impact on employment prospects for those we hope to support.

I am sure that the Members will all agree that the many challenges presented by the current economic and unemployment crisis require a positive, concerted and coherent response from all interested parties. Government, training and education providers, and employers must all work together, domestically and internationally, locally and regionally to meet these significant challenges head-on.

The training and upskilling of the country's workforce through a variety of further education and training programmes is a vital element of this country's recovery from the current downturn. It will also play a vital part in securing the future competitive advantage of all enterprises and in enhancing future growth in productivity in this country.

In the programme for Government we undertook to introduce a more focused, targeted approach regarding the State's engagement with and support of the unemployed to keep them close to the labour market, provide education and training opportunities and to get them back into the workforce.

The Government is tackling unemployment generally through the twin strategies of the Action Plan for Jobs and Pathways to Work. In 2012, the Government launched its Action Plan for Jobs, which is an ambitious jobs plan that aims to create the environment which will encourage the establishment of 100,000 new positions by 2016 and a further 100,000 by 2020. A further iteration of the action plan is currently being finalised for 2013 and it will shortly be published.

My Department played a key role in the successful implementation of this plan with a number of initiatives that were monitored on a regular basis to track progress. As part of this programme, the Government provided ¤20 million to establish a new Labour Market Education & Training Fund. The fund launched late last year is known as Momentum. It is being managed by FÁS. Momentum has been designed to provide targeted interventions to tackle the skills shortages in particular sectors of the Irish economy where vacancies have been identified. FÁS has carried out extensive research at national and regional level to establish where are the skills shortages. In responding to those skills shortages we will provide 6,500 training places for the long-term unemployed. Some of the places have been targeted specifically at young unemployed people. Momentum will be co-financed by the European Social Fund.

Skillnets, which is an industry-led, State-funded support body, also introduced a pilot management training initiative under the Action Plan for Jobs 2012. The new initiative is being branded as "Management Works" and has a budget of up to ¤1.2 million. This pilot project is being implemented, including the roll-out of a range of training and development programmes available to help private sector small and medium enterprises to improve their performance through seeking to build their managerial capability, which will allow them to improve trading both nationally and internationally.

The action plan also contained a commitment to initiate a review of the Irish apprenticeship training model, with a view to providing an updated model of training that delivers the necessary skilled workforce to service the needs of a rapidly changing economy and ensures an appropriate balance between supply and demand. This review is currently under way in the Department of Education and Skills and has been undertaken in two phases.

The first stage was the preparation of a background issues paper which provides, a factual description of the current system, including the governance arrangements, trends and forecasts in relation to recruitment, identifying strengths and weaknesses of the current model and identifying the range of possible options for change, as well as information on models of apprenticeship in other countries.

In 2013 it is proposed that the second phase of the review will involve consultation with all key stakeholders on the options for change. The arrangements for this phase of the review are currently being finalised. Our track record of apprenticeship provision is very strong but we need to examine the model and, perhaps, reconstruct it to meet the challenges of an ever changing and innovative jobs market.

I was fortunate to meet at a recent event the global vice president of one of the world's biggest software companies. The company employs 45,000 people worldwide, 2,000 of whom are based in Cork. He told me that 85% of the company's revenue is now derived from products developed within the company over the last 18 months. He said that any company which does not constantly innovate new products and services will be left behind. Our apprenticeship model must be able to respond to demand and rapid change in the labour market to ensure the interventions we make through the apprenticeship model are meaningful for those partaking in it. The model must allow us to be ever more competitive in a rapidly changing global economy.

The action plan for jobs saw the implementation of many of the recommendations of the joint Government-industry ICT action plan. The ICT skills conversion programme supports the delivery in partnership with industry of intensive, level 8 ICT conversion programmes to build the domestic supply of high level ICT skills graduates. More than 700 places were provided in the first phase of programmes from March 2012 and graduates will become available in the first half of 2013. There are positive initial indications in respect of employment outcomes for the first phase participants. A full evaluation of the first phase will be carried out in 2013. One of the reasons the ICT conversion programme has been so successful in creating long-term sustainable careers is significant co-operation with the major ICT firms based in Ireland on the design of the programme curricula. There has also been a significant work-placement element within the graduate skills conversion programme. The Springboard and ICT skills programmes are two new competitive funding streams that have been introduced since 2011 to address the specific skills needs of enterprise and to support jobseekers to re-skill in areas where employment opportunities are emerging as the economy recovers. To date, more than 10,000 unemployed or previously self-employed people have been provided with places under Springboard and a further 5,000 places are expected to be delivered in 2013. Collaboration with industry is, again, very much to the forefront in the Springboard model.

To complement the action plan for jobs, the Government launched the pathways-to-work initiative which provides for a more realistic, targeted approach to help and support unemployed individuals, especially the long-term unemployed and young people, to stay close to the labour market. The Government has also introduced a new integrated employment and support service entitled "Intreo" which is being managed under the aegis of the Department of Social Protection. The services and supports involved were previously provided by three distinct State services and the innovative integration of these supports has facilitated the development of a co-ordinated structure which provides unemployed people, particularly the long-term unemployed, with options and assistance in finding jobs or referrals to appropriate education and training. Intreo provides a valuable and innovative one-stop-shop service in every region. In addition, FÁS training services will facilitate unemployed individuals through a range of training programmes that provide industrially and occupationally specific skills as well as preparatory type training to enable a diverse range of unemployed individuals referred to FÁS through Intreo to gain a recognised qualification, access job opportunities or progress to further and higher education or training.

It is argued that the further education and training sector has grown in an uncoordinated way without strategic direction over many years. VECs deliver further education while FÁS delivers training. The current separation of further education and training is an obstacle to the delivery of a 21st-century service to jobseekers and learners. We have a further education and training sector that is fragmented and in which a great deal of duplication takes place. A lot of the same kinds of further education and training opportunities are delivered by VECs and FÁS, often in the same towns. The Government decided in July 2011 to merge the further education and training services into a single cohesive unit under the strategic direction of a new further education and training authority called SOLAS. FÁS will be dissolved as part of this process. SOLAS will be a new organisation with a new mandate which will merge further education and training. This represents possibly the most significant change in further education in over 70 years and the most significant change in the training sector since the establishment of FÁS over 25 years ago.

An action plan for the establishment of SOLAS was developed by a cross-departmental group which also included representatives from the further education sector and the private sector. The plan was approved by the Cabinet committee on Pathways to Work and is available on the Department's website. There is great potential in the sector which has not been unlocked to date because of the lack of an overarching vision and strategic delivery. This is a time of great challenge for Ireland. A world-class further education and training sector will help us get back on our feet and back to work through upskilling for the jobs and society of tomorrow. SOLAS will bring a strategic direction to the sector and enable and empower the new education and training boards to deliver an integrated further education and training sector for our people. The creation of SOLAS is part of a wider range of Government reforms in the areas of further education and training and the activation of the unemployed. The Department of Social Protection is currently developing and rolling out the new national employment and entitlement service, Intreo. As part of the process, responsibility for FÁS employment services and FÁS employment programmes which involve over 700 staff was transferred to the Department of Social Protection on 1 January 2012. This reform provides a single point of contact for the establishment of entitlements and the activation of the unemployed.

There are currently 33 vocational educational committees delivering education including further education. Legislation is now well advanced for the 33 VECs to be replaced by 16 education and training boards, or ETBs. Following the creation of the new training boards and the establishment of SOLAS, FÁS training centres and related staff will be transferred on a gradual basis to the appropriate ETB dependant on geographic location and readiness for transfer. FETAC, HETAC, the National Qualifications Authority of Ireland and the Irish Universities Quality Board have recently been amalgamated into Qualification and Quality Ireland, QQI, the new integrated body for quality and qualifications in Ireland. A theme running through these reforms is integration. Integrated services will be the most efficient, from a value-for-money point of view, and the most effective, from an outcomes and quality point of view. Taking into account the relationships and dependencies that exist between each of these elements, the implementation of this wider reform process will prove extremely challenging and will require a dedication of purpose and a well planned programme of change. As we carry out this fundamental restructuring of our VEC and training sectors, rationalising 33 VECs into 16 ETBs while transferring FÁS's training role to the latter, we must not forget those who are currently being supported through the system and to whom we are trying to provide the best training and further education opportunities. They cannot be neglected during the process of transition. It is not unlike trying to re-engineer an aeroplane while keeping it in the sky. That is how difficult this will be. My interaction with people in VECs and FÁS nationally indicates that they are enthused by the prospect of the merger and the possibilities it offers. I have every confidence that they will quickly make this work well.

SOLAS will be tasked with ensuring the provision of 21st-century, high-quality FET programmes which provide value-for-money and are integrated, flexible and responsive to the needs of learners and the requirements of a changed and changing economy. We will put in place structures to assess quickly how effective the further education and training opportunities will be. We will put in place software-based reporting mechanisms which allow people to provide almost instantaneous feedback to SOLAS and ETBs at regional level on the effectiveness of interventions and courses and on the supports they receive to re-engage with the labour market. That vital data will be sourced from each learner and held at both regional and national level to inform the design of courses and the provision of other supports for learners.

The repository of that data will be held at regional and national level and we will use the data to design course provision and other supports for learners.

The development of the strategy will involve consultation with the key stakeholders such as the ETBs and other providers of further education and training. There is significant capacity in the private sector, providing excellent further education and training opportunities. We will also consult the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Intreo, employers, Enterprise Ireland, the HEA and other bodies we consider appropriate.

SOLAS will not deliver programmes once the restructuring is complete. Its key function will be to provide for strategic oversight and funding for the main deliverers, the ETBs, and, where appropriate, the private sector. It will, however, maintain the delivery of FÁS services pending the completion of the transfer of the FÁS training division to the ETBs. SOLAS will develop and facilitate the development of new and existing further education and training programmes to meet the changing needs of employers and the labour market. It will also monitor the outputs and outcomes of these programmes to ensure they are relevant and delivered in an efficient and effective manner.

The Further Education and Training Bill 2013 was published recently. Its main provisions are the establishment of SOLAS and the dissolution of FÁS. It will also provide for the transfer of FÁS staff and property to SOLAS and, where appropriate, the onward transfer of staff to the appropriate ETB. This legislation will be discussed in greater detail when it is presented to the House in the coming months. I hope to bring it through both Houses by the end of May or early June. The Government is determined that the establishment of SOLAS, combined with the establishment of the education and training board structures, with a modern Irish apprenticeship system, will provide that framework for the positive future management and development of the further education and training sector.

To complement these policy initiatives and despite reducing resources, the Government will fund up to 430,000 part-time and full-time education and training places across the range of provision in the higher education, further education and training sectors in 2013. Places on certain programmes have been prioritised specifically for those who have been unemployed for 12 months or more. Since 2009 Ireland has obtained significant funds from the European Globalisation Adjustment Fund for training and up-skilling in respect of specific large-scale redundancies. A typical EGF funded programme includes a mix of supports and allowances to assist the affected workers in re-skilling and up-skilling to maximise their opportunities of finding suitable alternative employment.

Ireland has made seven successful applications for EGF support. Six of these programmes have been completed, with one programme in respect of redundant workers from the Talk-Talk call centre facility in Waterford, operating. It is worth pointing out that from the six completed programmes to date more than 9,300 clients have benefited from EGF supports.

One of the priorities while Ireland is hosting the Presidency of the Council of the European Union will be the progression of discussions and agreement on the youth guarantee. The Commission's proposal is for a Council recommendation that each member state ensure no person under 25 years of age will remain unemployed, whether after job loss or on leaving formal education, for more than four continuous months without a good quality offer of employment, continued education, an apprenticeship or a traineeship.

While there is no easy solution to reducing the number who are unemployed, I reassure the House that the Government is taking all necessary steps to ensure we have a labour force with the skills needed to avail of future job opportunities as and when they arise. When the full extent of the reforms and new initiatives I have outlined is assessed, it is clear that the Government has a clear and structured framework for dealing with the skills agenda.

I again thank Senators for inviting me to discuss this very important topic. I look forward to hearing their views and contributions.

12:15 pm

Photo of Paschal MooneyPaschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Minister of State and thank him for his comprehensive presentation of the Government's policy in this regard. Fianna Fáil supports the proposed Bill that will formally change the name of FÁS to SOLAS and welcomes the extended role it will play in providing for oversight and direction for the further education sector. Like FÁS, SOLAS will play a crucial role in meeting the skills requirements of the economy in the years to come.

In yesterday's edition of TheIrish Times Brian Mooney published a comprehensive analysis of the key areas of the new structures in further education. He makes the point that they need to serve learners and employers, not trainers and agencies. A couple of key questions arise from this analysis. The Minister of State has touched on some of them, for example, "There is still enormous duplication of courses regionally, both within the PLC sector and between it and the parallel FÁS training system. There are currently 180,000 further education and 75,000 training places provided in FÁS training centres ... Do the teaching staff within the further education and FÁS training services have the skills to educate and train people to the high standards required by multinational and domestic employers, particularly in ICT, foreign language skills, international business, engineering and technology?" He makes a valid point because while the job announcements made in the past couple of months are very welcome, it is obvious that a significant number of staff are being sourced overseas, primarily because people with the skills required, particularly in the IT sector and language skills, do not seem to be available here. It is a worrying trend that while jobs are being created here, they do not seem to be making a significant dent in the overall unemployment figures. This is a shifting model and people are rotating in and out regularly, but the unemployment rate of 14.6% remains stubbornly high for several years. Obviously, this is an issue of great concern to the Government. Will those who are educated and trained meet the needs of those who are creating jobs?

There also seems to be a trend to award a growing share of the budget to private sector colleges and trainers. Other questions arise in this regard. For example, the Minister of State talks about integration which will have to happen between FÁS trainers and the vocational teaching sector, but FÁS trainers enjoy higher pay scales than teachers and do not enjoy anything like the same holidays. Does the Minister of State have a view as to how these two groups of public servants could be integrated into a single service under the management of the proposed ETBs because obviously there is a need for 24-7, year round involvement?

Other questions arise in spite of what the Minister of State has outlined. There has been a significant number of budget cuts in the sector. For example, the pupil-teacher ratio is rising from 17:1 to 19:1, which will result in the loss of 200 whole-time equivalent teaching posts, which must have some impact on training. The training allowances for further education and training scheme participants are reduced, with the result that participants in VTOS, Youthreach, FÁS and further training programmes who move from jobseeker's payments will no longer have their new payments increased to a maximum of ¤188 per week in cases in which their jobseeker's allowance is lower. This is a disincentive. The allocation to the VECs has been reduced by ¤13 million in the budgetary proposals. The ¤300 cost of education allowance payable to back-to-education allowance participants is to be discontinued. These cuts are bound to impact on the Government's very genuine aspirations that the Minister of State outlined and these questions need to be addressed.

On apprenticeships, Mr. Brian Mooney writes: "During the boom we developed a system of apprenticeship training that was convoluted, expensive and served the needs of FÁS rather than of employers and trainees." It is interesting to note that during a time of high employment, the Celtic tiger years, the FÁS budget was in excess of ¤1 billion per year, an extraordinary amount of money. The collapse of the construction sector created enormous difficulties, particularly for "some students, caught in the middle of their four-year apprenticeship cycle here, to complete their training in the UK." This was facilitated by FÁS. It is interesting that Mr. Mooney draws attention to the fact that "The move revealed an anomaly in our training model; these students were brought to full qualification in just four months in the UK."

A lengthy Irish apprenticeship model was designed, as he put it, to provide years of employment for FÁS trainers, which was wasteful and made no sense whatever. The Minister of State has outlined this under various headings, and there are so many that one could do a thesis on what each heading will achieve. The Minister of State has so many headings in his presentation that he should be complimented on having an understanding of them all.

I hope these questions will be addressed, and as the Minister of State has correctly indicated, the integration of the vocational and training sector under the new education and training boards, ETBs, is a challenge. We will discuss that when the Education and Training Boards Bill comes before the House. That will create a new environment that will challenge all the providers.

The Minister of State indicated that SOLAS will not deliver the programmes and its key function will be to provide strategic oversight and funding to the main deliverers - the ETBs - and where appropriate, the private sector. In the mid-1990s, the National Economic and Social Forum considered a report published about local employment offices, with the idea being that gaps in jobs would be identified in regions, with those who were unemployed being interviewed, profiled and put into either training programmes or jobs. Is that an element of the Minister of State's proposals and will there be an integrated approach going to the core of the unemployed?

There will be difficulties in the regions, where there is an increasing imbalance. Most of the job announcements we have seen over the past couple of years have tended to come in clusters along the east coast, Cork and Limerick. As I come from the west and north west, like the Minister of State, I am concerned about this difficulty. The Government cannot be blamed for this. I spoke with somebody in the IDA recently about the regional imbalance and the lack of visits by the organisation to various counties in the north west and western seaboard as distinct from visits to the eastern counties. It seems that companies considering Ireland make a decision to go where there are population clusters and do not go where they will not be able to avail of skills. Nevertheless, there are a number of multinational companies in my own part of the world, including Bank of America MBNA, which is located in Carrick-on-Shannon and provides over 1,000 jobs. There has never been a difficulty in filling those jobs. Abbott in Sligo is a pharmaceutical company and there is no difficulty in filling jobs. Fruit of the Loom was originally in Donegal and commercial considerations saw it fail rather than a lack of labour availability.

Does the Government have any input in this area? Astonishingly, the person from the IDA told me that some companies take the view when considering the global market for job locations that if it is out of Dublin, it is out of Ireland. That was the term used. In other words, if the company is unable to locate in Dublin's conurbation, it will not locate in Ireland at all. That is astonishing when we consider that we are selling the country's advantages, including a very impressive corporation tax rate and a highly-educated, English-speaking labour force. It seems that when companies consider Ireland, they do not appear to countenance the provinces or regions.

I know the Government cannot force companies to provide jobs to those regions overnight by magic and multinationals have people to make their decisions. Nevertheless, there must be a meeting of minds and the Government must try to grasp the particular difficulty that exists. Increasingly, there will be a drift in the population to the east coast, and that is already happening. One can see it in demographic analyses and political landscapes that are changing, particularly in light of the new proposed council structures. The Minister of State may have a view in that regard.

I appreciate that when the Government officials sit down with industrialists or those thinking of locating in Ireland, we welcome the jobs, no matter where they are. I do not want to give the impression that I begrudge jobs being placed in Louth, Dublin, Cork or Limerick. The regional imbalance is creating enormous social difficulties and will affect the fabric of our society in the west and north west.

12:25 pm

Photo of Diarmuid WilsonDiarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
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We will go from the west and north west to the north east.

Photo of Jim D'ArcyJim D'Arcy (Fine Gael)
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Ar dtús, ba mhaith liom fáilte a chur roimh an Aire Stáit agus buíochas a ghabháil leis as an léiriú maith a thug sé ar chursaí oideachais agus traenála. I am sure we all read Mr. Brian Mooney's excellent article in The Irish Times yesterday, which considered an Seirbhísí Oideachais Leanúnaigh agus Scileanna, or SOLAS. He asked if SOLAS is the new FÁS, can it make a difference? He indicated that the challenges facing SOLAS and the new education and training boards are enormous. Senator Mooney referred to the fact that ¤1 billion per year was spent during the boom on courses by FÁS, and that was a time of full employment. Unfortunately, a great percentage of that money went on flights, accommodation and fine wines for board members. We cannot let that happen again.

There is the question of whether the teaching staff in the system have the necessary skills. How will we fuse trainers in the old FÁS with the teachers in the further education colleges, where there are different conditions of employment and holidays? In institutes of technology and colleges, there is ¤500 million of investment sitting idle for months every year, including at night and on Sundays, when they are closed completely. We should use these facilities for accelerated training programmes, whether aimed at the employed or unemployed. It is just as important to upskill people while they are employed as when they are unemployed. Most people have three different careers in their work life so when they have employment, we should keep reskilling them through courses and training. That would be plenty for SOLAS and the further education system to do under the new education boards.

With this new structure, we must align our skills with employment. Senator Mooney referred obliquely but kindly to the fact that the first generation of people brought in by PayPal, for example, may be brought in because language skills may not be the best in local recruits. I have discussed the issue in my local area and I hope to move on it. We should be educating our young people in Dundalk and its environs in language skills to suit the market for which PayPal is catering. The next generation of workers would be exclusively local as a result, meaning that they would come from the north east and raise the employment levels to where they should be.

The further education colleges, of which we have two fine institutions in Louth, O'Fiaich Institute of Further Education in Dundalk and Drogheda Institute of Further Education, can play their part with SOLAS. This is practical, not theoretical. I have spoken with the head of PayPal and she believes this will work, which will mean her company will stay in the area a little longer. I am glad to tell Senator Mooney that the recently announced 400 new jobs with eBay in Dundalk will be sourced locally.

We need to open colleges at off-peak times for everyone. We need them buzzing with education and training. The old ways - where one did a bit of training here and there, where one was meant to be trained for a week but was only trained for a day, where one went in at 10 a.m. and home at 3 p.m., where one did not learn any computer skills but learned how to brush the floor - are gone. This is a unique opportunity for us to give our people - not only our young people but people of all ages, as well as those beyond retirement age - new skills so they can contribute to the new Ireland and the new economy.

The Minister of State said the Further Education and Training Bill 2013 will be coming through to the House in the coming months. Will he be more specific as to when it will be before the House? I thank the Minister of State for attending the House for this important debate.

12:35 pm

Photo of Katherine ZapponeKatherine Zappone (Independent)
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I welcome the Minister of the State to the House for this debate on the future of further education and training. I compliment him for the wide-ranging initiatives in which he, the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Quinn, and the Government have engaged.

I come to this debate as a professional educator - as a theorist and practitioner of further education, adult and community education and training. I also founded a voluntary organisation that has operated in this field over the past 25 years, An Cosán. It has designed and delivered education and training from basic literacy to third level degrees, inclusive of training and ongoing professional development and the establishment of a social franchise in early years education that now employs over 100 people, most of whom we trained ourselves. We have worked side by side with the public sector, FÁS and the vocational education committees and in collaboration with the voluntary sector, ably represented by AONTAS and NALA.

Although our time is short for today's debate, it is a genuine opportunity to have an exchange of views prior to the taking of the Further Education and Training Bill 2013 in the Seanad. I hope our points and questions may influence the Government's presentation of the Bill to the House.

I commend the Minister of State and the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Quinn, on the scale of the transformation process in further education. They have set in train a move towards a vision of integration and co­operation at national, regional and local level. This is central to a vision that could really work and enable SOLAS to be a beacon of light for the future. The Ministers have stated they are developing a whole-of-government approach, insisting on co­ordination among the three primary Departments - Education and Skills, Social Protection and Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation. This is a great goal. They also have laid out how SOLAS will drive co-ordination and integration at national, regional and local level, another great goal.

What is not as explicit in the Further Education and Training Bill - and it needs to be - is the co­ordination and co-operation that must happen between the three primary sectors of further education and training, namely the public sector, the voluntary and NGO sector and the private sector. The Bill refers consistently to the design and delivery of training by public and other bodies. Will the Minister of State please consider including in the Bill a name for the sector in the future that is consonant with the make-up of the sector as it is in the present? I am deeply concerned, as are many others, that with the establishment of SOLAS and the enactment of the Further Education and Training Bill 2013, the public sector will swamp and swallow the vibrant, effective and long-standing voluntary sector, inclusive of adult and community education. This must not happen. A prime ingredient of Ireland's recovery from this deep recession is the effective education, training and placement of those without jobs, especially the long-term unemployed, as well as those living and working within social contexts of disadvantage. The voluntary sector of adult and community education carries a wealth of know-how that works in theory and in practice. The future of further education and training ought to ensure there is a prime place for such know-how.

Our vision of integration within this sector must ensure the design and delivery of every programme is learner-centred and always provides integration of education with training. How can this happen? It can happen through a pedagogy and curriculum that focuses on the interaction between students, teachers and the wider society. The curriculum is not simply the set of learning outcomes but, rather, engagement with information, knowledge and thinking. This is fundamental to all education but, in particular, further education, as it serves people who may have been failed by their previous schooling. At the end of every programme we need critical and creative thinkers and skilled and capable employees. A learner's charter, named in the Bill, would also contribute to this.

The strategies of SOLAS and of the education and training boards ought to ensure, especially through the quality control of programmes and support of the ongoing professional development of educators and trainers that is envisaged, that our future workforce will be engaged citizens, supporting the development of the person, our communities and our country.

Photo of Mary MoranMary Moran (Labour)
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I welcome the Minister of State to the House.

The education system has a key role to pay in fostering and developing the skills and innovation base to support economic recovery, as well as the development and expansion of the enterprise sector. We have a significant problem with youth unemployment, with 82,000, or 14%, of our 15 to 24 year olds currently unemployed. I welcome the Minister's comments on the Government's commitment to the youth guarantee. In the past, many of those who left school early went on to complete apprenticeships or got jobs in the retail or service sectors. These opportunities, however, dried up almost completely with the onset of the recession. Many of these young people are now choosing to stay on or return to education to give themselves the best chance of securing employment as the economy recovers.

Further education and training has been provided over the years by a range of agencies, with an investment total of some ¤900 million annually at present. There are approximately 9,000 staff employed in centres offering over 270,000 places to learners on full-time, part-time, formal and informal courses. The aim of these courses has been to meet the needs of early school leavers, to provide second-chance education for people who did not complete the leaving certificate and to provide vocational preparation and training for labour market entrants and re-entrants. In 2012, for example, there were 32,688 places on post-leaving certificate courses for learners over 16 years of age who had completed the leaving certificate, or equivalent, or who are adults returning to education. There are also part-time programmes such as the back to education initiative, the advantages of which are important for those who avail of them and which I have experienced as an educator.

Up to now, one of the largest providers of further education and training has been FÁS. Last year, FÁS provided 81,500 market-led and client-focused training interventions for unemployed people, with a total investment of ¤420 million in current expenditure. One of the excellent initiatives the Government has rolled out is the Momentum programme, which will provide 6,500 places for the long-term unemployed. The programme started in December. However, this sector of our education system has been crying out for change.

The Government has embarked upon a major programme of reform to ensure our education and training programmes are fit for purpose. There is little doubt that there has been duplication of courses across the spectrum and there are areas of provision that need complete reform if we are to ensure that taxpayers are to get the best possible value for money. We have to embrace change. We all know the FÁS brand been somewhat tarnished in recent years. I welcome the new training and education authority, SOLAS, which will be responsible for commissioning and funding the delivery of the service from the 16 new education and training boards, which, in turn, will replace the 33 existing VECs. The boards will be responsible for the planning and delivery of all vocational training and further education in their regions. SOLAS will also have the freedom to commission private sector providers as it deems appropriate. Further education and training will no longer be an indistinct sector with no real identity; rather, it will be more akin to the higher education sector, with SOLAS having many parallels with the Higher Education Authority. A core part of its role will be to ensure the referral of jobseekers to appropriate courses, and therefore the inclusion of a guidance service will be important.

Questions have been raised in the past about the quality and relevance of courses at this level. With so many providers and programmes, it has been difficult indeed to ensure that the learner gets the best possible teaching and training. SOLAS will have a role in auditing and quality-assuring the programmes that are delivered and it will have the task of ensuring that teachers and trainers undergo continuous professional development as well. We have discussed the importance of continuous professional development previously.

As in all areas of education, the learner should be at the core of the process. Having spent time in Youthreach courses, I am mindful that if trainees are not interested in what they are doing and if the courses supplied for them are merely gap-fillers or are run because the teacher was available in a given subject, then problems arise. The key to ensuring students remain on courses and interested is to make the courses trainee-centred.

I have no doubt there are challenges ahead, not least those surrounding the differing terms and conditions of employment of teachers in further education services and those of FÁS trainers, to which we have referred already. I know the area of holidays is an issue, because courses run by FÁS, Youthreach and SOLAS are to be run year-round, whereas in the schools the term is shorter. Integrating the two systems will not be easy.

We keep coming back to the recent job announcements in the digital economy sector, such as those at eBay and PayPal, based in my home town. They have brought a great sense of hope to those seeking employment but they have also brought into focus the urgent need for our workforce to have skills in information and communications technology, foreign languages, international business, engineering and technology. This is something we are all pushing for. Senator Jim D'Arcy referred to this issue earlier and I am aware from speaking with Louise Phelan that this is an issue. Senator D'Arcy was right to suggest that we need to ensure this is addressed for the next generation, and we need to put the emphasis on teaching foreign languages, especially Chinese, which is causing a problem at the moment. SOLAS will work with those experts who can forecast future skills needs in order that courses can be developed to respond to the needs of the economy.

As I stated earlier, the further education and training sector of the education system has been crying out for reform. There is no doubt that excellent work is being done by passionate and dedicated people in VECs, FÁS training units, colleges of further education and so on. The changes proposed in the Further Education and Training Bill will put learners at the heart of the process and ensure they are empowered to access the courses they need and that they can progress through the system and achieve their goals. I commend the Minister of State, Deputy Cannon, and the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Quinn, on the great work that has been done and on their implementation of the greatest change to further education that has taken place in more than 70 years and the greatest change in the training sector since FÁS was established more than 25 years ago.

12:45 pm

Photo of Feargal QuinnFeargal Quinn (Independent)
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The Minister of State is welcome back to the House, having spent several years here previously. I have had a most interesting week. I am following two Dundalk speakers. I found myself in the Dundalk Institute of Technology two days ago. One thing that surprised me about the group I met and the class I lectured to was that they were studying entrepreneurship. It was not a full course but a module that is part of every course, which everyone does when they study business in Dundalk Institute of Technology. I found it fascinating to meet those involved because they were Chinese or African and strangers in Dundalk. Clearly, entrepreneurship is something that is very important. It is not only a question of learning skills that one can use but of learning how to learn. This seemed to be the most important thing coming across from the course.

Another visit took place in this building the following day at the Joint Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, of which I am a member. We had a visit from the Open Ireland. The main speaker was Sean O'Sullivan, a fascinating man I had not met before. He set up a business in Cork and was one of the inventors of the term "cloud computing" some years ago. He was one of the "Dragons' Den" people. His main point was that the jobs that will exist in ten years' time do not exist now. Therefore, the question is how we can train people for that. He provided a good example. One of his colleagues at the meeting explained that if a person decides to be a doctor, he does not study to be a surgeon or dermatologist at the initial stage. He studies for six years to be a doctor and then he decides what area in which to specialise. In other words, in the case of information and communications technology, a person needs to get a broad understanding, mostly about how to learn, and then decide what he will study afterwards. It is fascinating, because we have a great deal to learn about children's education as well.

The Springboard initiative was mentioned earlier. I served on the board of one of the committees of Springboard for two years. The initiative is clearly doing a great deal. Reference was made to the fact that 10,000 people have gone through Springboard courses. These are courses run for people who have already received education but whose education is not suitable for jobs now. Many of them are architects and engineers but they need to study something else now. A further 5,000 will go though the programme this year.

I made another visit almost two years ago to Tralee. I met Jerry Kenneally, who sold his business and then built up a new business and decided he wanted to live in Ireland. He decided entrepreneurship was the important element. He put his money into teaching transition year youngsters of 15 and 16 years of age about entrepreneurship. For the programme to work, those involved had to train teachers to teach entrepreneurship. They get 600 pupils from throughout Kerry, who come to Tralee for one session at the beginning of the school term. I was sitting with a young woman at the session who explained that the previous year she had done the course in entrepreneurship. One of the challenges for the students is to see a problem and then solve it. She had found a problem and then solved it. She now employs one person, her father, a great achievement for a 15 year old. She is now in fifth year and she exports to 22 countries and sells a product for ¤17.99 on her Internet site. At 15 years of age, this girl saw a challenge as something she could take on. I discovered young people who were learning many other things as well.

It is interesting that, as Sean O'Sullivan said, many of the jobs that will exist in five years' time do not exist at the moment. How do we give citizens the skills they need to succeed in their personal and professional lives? How do we prepare them for the future given that, according to a recent estimate, 65% of children entering a primary school this year will end up working in careers that have not been invented yet?

We need to learn cognitive and non-cognitive skills.

In addition to the specialised technical skills, it is crucial that we teach children how to learn in order that they can easily pick up new skills. I served a five year term as chairman of the applied leaving certificate programme and my experience prompts me to ask some broad questions about education. Do all students learn in the same way? Should we ignore international research on multiple forms of intelligence? Do students learn best in isolation? Is one main method of written assessment dependable? There must be better ways of teaching. Could a strong policy be developed to reflect the importance of lifelong learning? Could we number our school years from birth rather than primary school to underline the importance of preschool years in a child's development? The education cycle begins at birth. It is interesting to see how my two recent grandchildren learn while they are a few months old. One of the most interesting messages on education is advocated by the World Bank which argues that education should focus on basic cognitive skills such as reading, writing and communication until children are 17 or 18 years old and that vocational training should wait. We are well aware of the large number of children in this country who left school to enter trades and lacked the skills to adapt when the economy changed. Focusing on basic skills will allow for a flexible workforce. Poland was able to use such an asset in the aftermath of the economic and financial crisis. A number of experts point to Poland's flexible workforce as the reason for its continued economic growth. Ireland can learn a lesson from this example.

I am delighted that the Minister of State spoke about the youth guarantee. The Joint Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation has pointed out that we do not have to invent something new because New Zealand, Austria and Sweden have already introduced a youth guarantee. Therefore, we know how to do it.

One of the elements I would like to stitch into this discussion is the importance of entrepreneurship in order that people would be expected to do it themselves rather than always expecting somebody else to do it for them. I was delighted to hear Senator D'Arcy speak about the lack of use of facilities, particularly in institutes of technology, which lie vacant all summer and over many weekends. There must be better ways of doing this. I know the Minister of State's heart is in the right place. Let us make sure we support him any way we can.

12:55 pm

Photo of Caít KeaneCaít Keane (Fine Gael)
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This subject is close to my heart. As I studied multiple intelligences for my masters degree, I followed Senator Feargal Quinn's comments with interest. I commend the Minister of State and the Government for their reforming agenda for further education and training which aims to future proof the sector in order that it can deliver a 21st education and training programme.

What is traditionally assessed as intelligence suits the socially dominant group which has largely defined the nature of legitimate knowledge in education. Often the cultural values and beliefs in education and societal structures mirror the values of dominant groups. The exception is adult education and I hope this will be preserved. What is involved in adult education today should be brought to primary level. Our education system has left many adults behind and continues to fail many citizens. We must address the urgent social need behind the fact that not every citizen learns in the same way by catering for a wider spectrum of intelligence and, therefore, a larger population cohort. We should have equal regard for other forms of intelligence. While it is important that we value linguistic, logistical and mathematical intelligence, we must teach in a way that encompasses all of the intelligence of a person, with equal regard for dancers, designers, entrepreneurs, artists and musicians.

The VEC delivers further education programmes, whereas FÁS provides training. Both should be encompassed within a multiple intelligence sphere which recognises no difference between training and education. We should assist students in critical and creative thinking competencies and encourage intellectual empowerment. Perhaps if we had more critical thinkers when the Magdalen laundries were operating, they would have asked more questions about what was happening. I hope this aspect of adult education will continue to be nurtured.

Senator Katherine Zappone spoke about the community and voluntary sector. An Cosán could be a model for the new SOLAS and adult education programmes. I am working with architects to find out whether university training of architects is better than vocational training. Accredited prior learning, APL, in education has to be developed further. We have an ideal opportunity with the education boards coming under SOLAS to consider how APL, that is, what an individual brings through lifelong learning, can be accredited. Architecture is one area we could consider in this regard, although it might take some time to put a system in place. Training on the job and learning by doing are just as good as learning from books. I ask the Minister of State to ensure a methodology is put in place for all sectors of education for APL. There is an opportunity in the context of the draft building regulations to develop such a system through the vocational and community sector.

I have more to say, but the Leas-Chathaoirleach has indicated my time is up. I commend the Minister of State, Deputy Ciarán Cannon, and the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Ruairí Quinn, for the job they are doing.

Photo of Brian Ó DomhnaillBrian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the opportunity to speak on the issue of further education and training. This is a particularly important subject in the current climate of high unemployment among those who have skills in an industry which is no longer creating jobs. Many left college or school to work in construction. They fell out of education because a more handsome living could be made in a sector which was creating employment and opportunities at the time. Many of these individuals now find themselves in limbo and the vast majority are young men. Unfortunately, many of them are either unemployed at home, trying to enroll in a course of choice or working abroad. That is the sad aftermath of the Celtic tiger and the construction industry boom.

I concur with Senator Feargal Quinn on taking a holistic approach to education. It is important not only to focus on the participant but also to be forward thinking in regard to where we are going as a country in the next 20 to 30 years. We have to ask ourselves what types of jobs will be available in ten or 20 years time. I was often critical of the educational element of FÁS as providing courses as knee-jerk reactions. Long after the construction sector had collapsed, courses in stone work, brick laying and plastering were being offered to young men. There was no change in the organisation.

As a country and on behalf of the people, we and the Government must look at what is coming down the tracks and how we should plan for that. Senator Quinn was right that we must start at preschool and primary school level and carry on into secondary school level. We must look at issues like language. Irish people are applying for jobs now, but many of them are not being called for interview because they do not have the correct language skills on their CVs. We must look at that. We must also look at IT skills, communication skills and all that revolves around these. We are now living in a multimedia society and 54% of web browsing is now done from a mobile phone. The idea of sitting behind a computer desk is changing. This area will continue to evolve and job opportunities will arise through the new technology in the years ahead. SOLAS should contain some kind of technology hub, particularly as it is responsible for the policy element of driving this agenda. The education and training boards come under the second piece of legislation and they will drive training and education. However, we must have a forward-thinking policy unit within SOLAS to look at what is coming down the tracks, to adapt to that and to plan ahead for five, ten, 15, 20 and even 30 years.

Career guidance is a vitally important area. Many children at secondary level and many young adults out of work need support in the area of career guidance. Unfortunately, career guidance hours have been cut drastically in second level. I believe it has never been more important to have career guidance at second level as it is now, because people heading for third level need that help now. They need help from professional career guidance teachers. The reduction in the number of hours for career guidance should be reversed.

I have many other points I wish to make, but I may forward them to the Minister. For example, the Pathways to Work document published by the Government focuses on the labour activation measures and does not take into consideration, for example, the accessibility and quality of job placements, guidance and counselling services, the relevance and quality of training and the education programmes available. Soft skills relate more to what can be provided through guidance and counselling services and these are important to young people. They need to be equipped with these skills.

I touched on the need for a root and branch review of the courses currently available. There are 270,00 people undertaking courses at the present time within FÁS, community schemes and private operations across the range of further training and education, FTE, courses. Many of these courses are very good, but many of the individuals undertaking them do not want to be on those courses. The courses they want to be on are full or are not available. There will be new opportunities with the new structures being put in place, but these must be adaptable and forward-thinking. The courses of relevance to people who want to participate in them must be made available. Private providers must be adaptive also. If funding is being made available by the educational training boards to private providers, those providers have an obligation to provide adaptive, foward-thinking courses. Perhaps I will send on details of some of the points I wished to make to the Minister.

1:05 pm

Photo of Aideen HaydenAideen Hayden (Labour)
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I welcome the Minister of State to the House. When I started looking at the literature on this area, I was quite surprised by the extent and importance of the further education and training sector. It is worth ¤900 million per year and there are approximately 270,000 places in it in both part-time and full-time equivalent courses. There are four full-time further education courses and five part-time courses. In total, there are nine programmes and in the region of 192,741 participants. Therefore, this is an important sector of our economy. One of the things that most surprised me about this sector, apart from the range of programmes and the numbers participating, was the value for money. It was quite surprising to see that in 2012, provision under Youthreach was ¤70 million for 3,700 places and that under the vocational training opportunity scheme, VTOS, ¤80 million was spent in 2012 for 6,000 places. This represents good value for money.

Today, we must accept the reality that many of these courses grew, like layers of an onion, one on top of the other. We must all accept that FÁS has become a damaged brand and that it is necessary, in order to maintain confidence in the area of training, for FÁS to move on to another existence. During the Celtic tiger years unemployment remained stubbornly high, despite the fact the economy never had it so good. Therefore, there is an issue in terms of the effectiveness and reach of our further education and training programmes. If they did not achieve that reach when times were good, we must look strategically at how they can achieve that reach when times are not so good.

I fully accept what other speakers have said, in particular Senator Quinn, with regard to the challenges facing modern society. I was struck by something I read in the book The Empty Raincoat by Charles Handy a number of years ago. He said that in the future people would have to deal with the idea of a portfolio of careers. He suggested the job for life was gone, as was the idea that one could stay in one occupation, even with different employers. He said we would all have to be a lot more adaptable.

I want to address some remarks to the Minister of State in regard to the further education part of this debate. While people constantly applaud this country on its high overall skills profile in the context of school leavers who participate in higher education, which is something of which we can be proud, these figures mask an underlying difficulty. The CSO indicates that 52% of the population over 18 has not achieved more than secondary school education. Also, our universities and ITs have a weaker adult education profile than, for example, their UK counterparts. Further education has a critical role to play in addressing this problem. The further education sector in Ireland is more fragmented and marginal than it is in the UK. The areas covered under further education in this country come under a number of umbrellas, whereas in the UK there are specialist further education colleges. As a result, our sector is weaker and less able to compete and engage with employers.

My final point relates to the move to integrate FÁS and the VECs under the umbrella of SOLAS. This is welcome, but rather than running the whole provision through a centralised agency, with little local accountability, consideration should be given to the structure of SOLAS. It should be structured through the establishment of local autonomous bodies with their own locally appointed boards. This is critical for real engagement with local employers and communities.

Photo of Kathryn ReillyKathryn Reilly (Sinn Fein)
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I join colleagues in welcoming the Minister of State to the Seanad for this important debate on the future of further education and training. We all know that investment in education and training is vital for the economy and society. It is even more important during a time of recession to address people's skills deficits and to improve their employability so as to empower them to move from forms of employment, such as construction, into new areas of job growth. This must be our priority. We need to ensure that every cent of additional money provided to us by external sources, such as the EU, is used for its intended purpose of ensuring that additional benefit is brought to those in need of support.

Some Senators mentioned earlier that they had concerns and I share their concern regarding the reduction of overall expenditure for the further education sector and the difficulties that have been experienced as a result.

Although the CE scheme does not fall under the Minister of State's portfolio, it should be noted that it provides a vital bridge for many people, especially those in areas of high unemployment and social disadvantage. While there was a partial reversal of the cuts made in budget 2012, the net reduction in expenditure has created real problems. The same can be said for the PLC courses. A cut of ¤13.2 million was announced for the VEC sector. The increase in the pupil?teacher ratio from 17:1 to 19:1 not only affects teaching jobs but also the training provided. It is a cut that is impossible to justify. It does not acknowledge that the education system is not a one-size-fits-all system. The courses in question provide an important educational platform for those who want to advance to university or institutes of technology.

The leaving certificate examination is considered the minimum qualification, yet the majority of adults in the State do not have the certificate. Therefore, the importance of the further education sector cannot be overstated. Many learners who benefit from PLC courses are mature students returning to formal education after a considerable period. This means they need additional and specific supports in making the transition back to full-time education, particularly in order to enhance literacy and numeracy skills, which are essential to employment prospects. Not only will the change to the pupil-teacher ratio at PLC level result in the loss of teaching jobs, it will also bring a forced end to many specialised courses regarded as essential for the reskilling of adult learners.

In his speech, the Minister of State referred to the European globalisation adjustment fund. I am concerned about the mismanagement associated with the fund. The Minister of State has been hands-on in respect of it but serious questions arose over how it was managed. I would be interested in receiving an update from the Minister of State on the total proportion of the fund due to be returned from the State, that is, from all the now-closed projects, including the programme for redundant construction workers. I would like the Minister of State to comment on the money that has been spent, be it in respect of Waterford Crystal, SR Technics or redundant construction workers. It was used to subsidise pre-existing supports for the workers rather than to provide tailor-made additional interventions, as the rules of the fund require.

Let me touch on a matter that the Minister of State mentioned in his speech regarding the guarantee. The Tánaiste made great play last week of the agreement, worth ¤6 billion, in respect of the European youth unemployment fund on the conclusion of the budget negotiations. Can the Minister of State outline what investment the Government intends to make to match the small EU allocation? Can he commit that the money will be additional rather than taken out of existing programme funding?

1:15 pm

Photo of Martin ConwayMartin Conway (Fine Gael)
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Much of what I wanted to say has already been articulated. I commend the Minister of State on how he is dealing with the SOLAS issue, etc.

I was at an international conference in Austria over the weekend that dealt specifically with unemployment among the disabled throughout the world, particularly in Europe. Graduates with disabilities face a serious problem in getting a fair crack of the whip at interviews. Last week, we noted the results of the epilepsy society's survey indicating that one in two employers would not give a job to somebody with epilepsy. This is absolutely appalling in this day and age. Furthermore, one in five members of the public felt people with epilepsy are being stigmatised because of their condition. This is just one example. If the same survey was carried out in regard to other disabilities, I have no doubt the figures would reflect exactly the same trend. This is a pan-European problem. There is absolutely no reason this country cannot become a model of best practice in dealing with the problem and ensuring people with disabilities are given the same opportunities once they have proven they have the ability and skillset to do a job. By ensuring this, a disability would not hinder one at interview or in securing the job.

There is no point in Ireland seeking a model of international best practice because it does not exist, except in the United States. Therefore, we need to set the standard for international best practice. The vast majority of people in this nation believe in equality, yet their view is not manifesting itself considering what I have said is the practice on the ground, that is, the breaching of basic human rights, namely, the rights to work, pay one's taxes and contribute to society.

The Minister of State's Department has a critical role to play in that people with disabilities who are capable of acquiring the necessary skillset have the opportunity to do so. We need to see very focused tailor-made programmes to deal with this epidemic. That is all it can be described as. Many people with disabilities are in so-called sheltered employment or internships. All this is doing is making the figures look good. One would be frightened by the real unemployment statistics pertaining to the disabled.

Photo of Ciarán CannonCiarán Cannon (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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As a former Member of this House, I was often concerned about Ministers who, on having delivered their opening address and listened intently to the debate, delivered a closing address without addressing any of the issues raised during the contributions. I will try as best I can not to allow that to happen in this instance, bearing in mind that I have but five minutes. A number of common themes and trends arose in the discussion. If I do not mention individual contributions, I hope Senators will not feel slighted.

One reason the process of reform is under way to bring together the further education and training sectors is to be able to leverage the very significant existing skillsets that exist in both sectors. There is no question but that decades of experience and thousands of hours of teaching and training expertise have not been used to their best effect in the past. The word "duplication" was mentioned time and again. It is very much the case that there has been duplication. It is a waste of valuable State resources and people's time.

We must convince people that our intervention to get them back into the learning process will be very worthwhile. It should not be a case of simply crunching the numbers and not really caring about the overall outcome of the process. It is a matter of bringing together the various strands.

Senator Zappone mentioned the community sector. I have visited at least 30 to 40 community and education projects across the country. Significant expertise at community level is, more often than not, offered voluntarily owing to the goodwill and passion of people who have skills and want to impart them to others. It is a matter of bringing together the various strands, including the further education sector, the work FÁS has been doing, the community sector and the private sector, which is also doing exceptional work.

Most of the recent 6,500 places offered through the MOMENTUM programme had been provided by the private sector. In the past, that sector had flexibility. In a recent piece in one of the national newspapers, I compared FÁS with a behemoth of an ocean liner and stated the new structure we are trying to create will comprise the ETBs, which will move powerboat-like to various areas whose skills shortages need to be addressed urgently. The private sector has been very good at this in the past because it has small, tightly-controlled units capable of moving quickly to address particular skills shortages. We will bring together all the various strands, and the best of every one of them will come together to make the system work better for the people we want to support.

Senator Hayden stated we need flexibility at regional level. We certainly will have it. This is why I said in my contribution that SOLAS, as an entity, will not be providing any training or further education opportunities. Rather, it will be charged with ensuring that all 16 ETBs across the country will have the skills, resources and support necessary to deliver training and education locally.

Some significant national research will be taking place. Senator Ó Domhnaill stated we need to look forward ten to 20 years. SOLAS will be doing so and will have a dedicated research unit, as FÁS does at present, to do the kind of work required and determine where skills shortages are emerging.

Senator Quinn mentioned that the careers 65% of children entering primary school now will have do not even exist. I saw an article in a magazine stating that there are now 300,000 people in the US employed writing Apps for iPhones and iPads. I read in another magazine that by 2025, half of the careers which will exist then do not exist now. We must be able to respond to that constantly emerging, innovating jobs market.

SOLAS will do that research at national level but the ETBs will also be required to do research at regional level and to drill right down in a very granular fashion to establish where the skills shortages are occurring. For example, in Galway where I live, there is a huge emerging medical devices cluster. In fairness, FÁS and the VECs are working to respond to those skills shortages, even before SOLAS has come into being. We see similar things happening in the pharmaceutical and food sciences area in Cork and in the financial services area in Dublin. We need to be that speed boat-like model that can move quickly to respond to skills shortages as they occur and not be running behind the curve. We should be ahead of the curve all the time.

Senator Quinn spoke very eloquently about the whole subject of entrepreneurship, and I agree with him wholeheartedly. In addition to teaching the subject of entrepreneurship to our children and young adults, we need to somehow interweave the concept of entrepreneurship across all of our education provision. Last week I spoke to a very successful businessman based in County Galway who said that when he was doing his leaving certificate, he had to respond to a questionnaire on what career one wished to pursue when one left school. He put down that he wanted to be a businessman but the teacher handed it back to him and said that was not a career. That kind of mindset needs to be changed, although I think it is changing.

The skills one needs to become a successful entrepreneur - critical thinking, team working, analytical skills, being able to see opportunities where others do not and learning to learn, which Senator Quinn and others mentioned - need to be very much part of all our education provision right from junior infants to PhD level. We are trying hard to do that.

It was mentioned that students are coming from all over the world to study entrepreneurship in Dundalk IT. They are going to other institutions as well. I was in DCU last week saying "Goodbye" to 15 Malaysian teachers who had come from the Malaysian education system to study entrepreneurship in Ireland. We are leading the way globally in this area and are doing exceptionally good work in many areas, but we need to do a lot more.

SOLAS is about bringing together all of our expertise and our wonderful history of education in the different sectors and using that expertise to provide people with a clear, unambiguous and seamless transition all the way through the education system, so that they can see a definitive path for themselves from the moment they enter it until they hopefully re-emerge at the very end and take up sustainable, long-term, satisfying and rewarding careers.

I agree with Senator D'Arcy who said that as well as those who are unemployed, those who are employed need to be equally careful about keeping their skills up to date and we need to be able to facilitate that through the process. We will talk a lot more about this when the ETB and SOLAS legislation comes back to the House.

As a small island nation off the coast of Europe, we sometimes tend to think we need to look elsewhere for inspiration on how to do things properly. Scandinavia, Austria and Germany are often mentioned as being a wonderful models but I genuinely think if we pull together all the strands and all the talent and passion, which I have seen in this sector over the past two years, and really make them gel and work well, we can become the model others look to for inspiration. We have much important work to do and I look forward to working with Members to make it happen.

Sitting suspended at 2.05 p.m. and resumed at 4 p.m.