Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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The Order of Business is Nos. 1, 2, 3 and non-Government motion No. 26.12 on the Order Paper. No. 1, National Vetting Bureau (Children and Vulnerable Persons) Bill 2012 [Dáil] - Committee and Remaining Stages, to be taken on the conclusion of the Order of Business and to conclude no later than 1.45 p.m.; No. 2, motion re the State Airports Act 2004 (Shannon Appointed Day) Order 2012, to be taken at 2.30 p.m. and to conclude no later than 3.30 p.m. with the contribution of group spokespersons not to exceed five minutes and all other Senators not to exceed three minutes, and the Minister to be called upon to reply not later than 3.25 p.m.; No. 3, Credit Union Bill 2012 [Dáil] - Report Stage, to be taken at 3.30 p.m. and to conclude no later than 5 p.m.

Private Members' business, No. 26, motion 12, shall be taken at 5 p.m. and shall conclude not later than 7 p.m.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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First, I insist that the Deputy Leader arranges time for the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Fitzgerald, to come into this House to explain the advice received and the decision taken by the Government to spend more than ¤1 million of taxpayers' money on the children's rights referendum. The Supreme Court judgment, about which Members learned more yesterday, was absolutely scathing in that regard. If the Deputy Leader does not arrange for the Minister, Deputy Fitzgerald, to come into this House next week, my group and I will oppose each section of each item of business next week because the Government cannot be allowed to get away with this.

Yesterday, unlike any Government representative, I went outside Leinster House to meet people who were losing ¤325 in respite care grants and, in common with many Members, I met Paddy Doyle and a group of people there. However, it was indicated to me yesterday that no Government representatives even went out to meet the protesters. While ¤1 million might not be much to Senator Colm Burke and his Fine Gael colleagues, it would pay for a lot of respite care grants. Consequently, ¤1 million wasted by the Government must be accounted for and, furthermore, I call into question the advice the Attorney General gave to the Government in this regard. I cannot understand how such a glaring mistake was made on the children's rights referendum and I will insist that the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Fitzgerald, comes into this House next week. I am putting Senator Bacik on notice that if she does not arrange for this, Fianna Fáil will oppose each session of business next week. The Minister is answerable to this House and she must come in to account for how the Government took this decision. I ask the Deputy Leader to do this and I am sure time can be arranged in this regard.

To return to the issue of the respite care grant, I understand the Social Welfare Bill will be before the Seanad next week. My group, as well as other groupings, I am sure, including Sinn Féin and the Independent Members, will table amendments to it. Members will have an opportunity next week to rectify what it appears as though the Dáil will ram through this week with a massive majority of 56 seats. Members of this House have an opportunity to rectify the issues with the respite care grant, children's benefit and the back to school clothing and footwear allowance. Labour Party and Fine Gael Members will have an opportunity to show that the Seanad has relevance and teeth next week. I ask them to take soundings from the people over the weekend, that is, from their neighbours and constituents, about how they view cuts to respite care grants and other choices that could have been made by the Government. There will be an opportunity next week to make amendments to the Social Welfare Bill and to send it back to the Government.

I reiterate that I find it incredible how no Government Senators or Deputies went out to meet the protesters outside the gates of Leinster House yesterday. Perhaps Senator Gilroy did-----

John Gilroy (Labour)
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Yes, I did.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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If so, fair play to him as very few did. How many Government Members even bothered to go outside to listen to people's concerns? I will not even bother to go over all the promises that were made prior to the last election. As the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Rabbitte, stated on television a few days ago, they were only election promises and so they stood for nothing. However, I reiterate that next week, Members have an opportunity to rectify the mistakes the Government has made in the Social Welfare Bill. I urge Members opposite to use their power to reverse the cuts to the respite care grant, to child benefit and to the back to school clothing and footwear allowance.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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I thank Senator O'Brien for his timely warnings about next week, which are much appreciated. The point is noted and Members on the side will be on guard.

Diarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
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Inform Senator Brennan.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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I thank Senator Wilson for that, too.

Diarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
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The Senators opposite can win votes in this House.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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We will. Continuing questions arise daily about banking and bankers. While I acknowledge that requests have been made for a debate on banking, I repeat those calls because there must be confidence in the regulatory system and, clearly, there is not. I note the comments made yesterday by Mr. Appleby, who had long experience of dealing with those institutions and the people who populate them, as well as by Mr. Elderfield, and Members must take them on board. In addition, the Oireachtas must deal with the inquiry on this matter that is hanging around, as it were. I know it will not be possible to do this next week but I repeat that call, which has come from many Members on both sides of the House, for a debate on banking early during the new session next year.

Jillian van Turnhout (Independent)
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I will begin with some positive news and will acknowledge the role this House has played. The 116000 missing children hotline now is operational and I believe this House played a strong role in this regard. If Members recall, they came together as a House in October 2011 for what I believe to have been an excellent debate with the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs. Moreover, Members, including Senators Quinn and Daly and many others, have continued to push to have this hotline in operation. While it now is in operation, unfortunately it only is doing so for 18 hours a day until March 2013, after which the ISPCC will be able to operate it for 24 hours per day. Ireland now is the 20th country in the European Union to have this hotline in place.

I encourage all Members to participate actively in the debate on the Private Members' motion that is being put forward by my Independent group on the value of youth work. All Members will have received a copy of the report and quite a number of youth organisations intend to come in to hear the debate. Members need only look around the areas in which they live to be able to see youth work in action. I hope all Members will participate actively in this debate.

On the Order of Business, I have a concern that Members are taking Committee and Remaining Stages of the National Vetting Bureau (Children and Vulnerable Persons) Bill today. Members will recall that when they debated Second Stage on 27 November last, the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Shatter, unfortunately was not available. Three Ministers of State attended that debate and I raised a number of questions that I do not consider to have been addressed. I acknowledge the Minister, Deputy Shatter, is very good about coming into this House. However, I have tabled an amendment and I am concerned that Members are trying to take Committee and Remaining Stages together today. I am expressing that concern now and I will see how my amendment is treated at the time before deciding on whether to proceed any further.

David Norris (Independent)
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I refer to the communication I mentioned to the Cathaoirleach yesterday. It is addressed "To the Governors and the subject people of the island of Ireland". Sirs, it is nigh three hundred years since my last epistle. I then had lifted my pen to warn the people of the calamity about to befall the nation from the imposition of a debased currency on the citizenry to their grave disadvantage and peril. I little thought that the employment of a goose's quill would again become necessary after such an interval. It has of late come under my observation that a new punishment has been devised upon the population to their infinite despair and misery by our imperial rulers - to wit, the wanton destruction of 3,000 million of their bank notes- a nice amount and by act of providence as if in warning an exact image of that sum recently diverted from their purse by the Government's proposed budget. Mr. Woods produced at least a currency, though of negligible value. He did not attempt, as is now proposed, to turn real money into a phantasm, a task one had thought only to be engaged in by the academicians of the flying island of Laputa.

It might be thought by some ignorant persons that this matter does not touch the ordering of business but surely it is indeed a central point for this august Chamber, namely, the ordering of the business and the welfare, not just of the Parliament but of the land itself. It is a right universally acknowledged to be expedient, both as a moral necessity and a physical practicality, that those about to be subject to the operation of the thumbscrew and the rack be present on the occasion of their degradation. We, it seems, are to be deprived even of this. I am brought to mind of old Mr. Aesop and his fable of the Ant and the Grasshopper.

In the current case, a reversal of the fable is encountered for it is manifest that the Grasshopper, acting in infamy, hath commenced to devour ourselves, the Ants. We see in our land a dereliction of buildings and businesses and an impoverishment of the citizenry-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator Norris, are you getting to the point?

David Norris (Independent)
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I am. The question is coming and is addressed to the Cathaoirleach. I refer to an impoverishment of the citizenry, the establishment of soup kitchens for the destitute, eviction of those in arrears of debt, rack-renting for those with the temerity to improve their properties and the recreation of the memories of hedge schools for our children.

And all this to pay for the Grasshopper's party, to which but a select and unrepresentative group was invited at the first instance. It is now proposed to reimburse the Grasshopper by charging to the great mass of the uninvited and the disenfranchised the expense of his frolickings. The grasshopper clique, it transpires, has issued the providers of the entertainment with promissory notes, which we the humble citizenry are presently to be enforced to discharge. Nor is there to be an end to the affront, as with a nonchalance unparalleled since the epoch of the Emperor Nero, the Grasshopper intends-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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A question for the Deputy Leader.

David Norris (Independent)
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----- to render the real money bled from the plain people useless by destruction; this to be done in the course of a further extravagance taking the form of a pyrotechnic display during which the furnaces of the Central Bank will be employed to the withering of our substance.

Is it not appropriate that though not invited, and indeed not even cognisant of the original party, the people of Ireland should at the minimum be present as witnesses to the prime cause of their distress? I therefore respectfully request information concerning the day and the hour of this obscenity and that this information be made public to that people so that in their hordes they may attend, and by their silent witness reprove our masters. Signed, J.S. Drapier of Dublin this day, the 12th day of the 12th month in the year of Our Lord, 2012.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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Hear, hear.

John Gilroy (Labour)
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Could Senator Norris repeat that?

David Norris (Independent)
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Yes.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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That was completely out of order.

Aideen Hayden (Labour)
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Perhaps you could shed some light, a Chathaoirligh, on what Senator Norris graced us with. Perhaps for the first time I am totally at a loss. Normally, Senator Norris is erudite-----

Marie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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History is repeating itself.

Aideen Hayden (Labour)
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In any event, I am a little lost. The matter I wish to raise with the Deputy Leader relates to the Bill on the local property tax, all Stages of which, as Members know, will be debated in this House next week. During statements on the budget I raised the fact that the charge will be levied on local authority and social housing. That is a ridiculous provision. One is talking about having one branch of the local authority write a cheque to give to another branch of the local authority. In the case of voluntary housing providers, when surcharged on social housing units on the basis of the differential rent system, which means that it is on the basis of the tenant?s ability to pay, the housing associations cannot recoup this money through charging higher rents to tenants. Therefore, it will bring voluntary housing providers to their knees. I ask the Deputy Leader to raise this matter with the Minister for Finance before it is too late, and prior to us being forced to put this provision through the House next week.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Hayden is not forced to do anything.

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
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It is a free vote.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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I ask the Leader to organise a debate on uniting Ireland. The census results from the North are available today. The figures belie the underlying issue because, as we see, many in the North, both Catholic and Protestant, do not regard themselves as either British or Irish but as Northern Irish. One cannot unite a territory without uniting people. In the past 40 years, as the population divide between both sides of the community in Northern Ireland has narrowed to a gap of 54,000, if the gap widens further in the next 40 years on the Catholic side, what issues face us in the Republic under Articles 2 and 3 and how should we prepare for such an event? Will the Leader organise a debate on uniting Ireland, not a united Ireland? I speak about uniting people not territory.

Michael Comiskey (Fine Gael)
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I welcome the recent announcement by Fáilte Ireland on the development of the Wild Atlantic Way. It is a great opportunity for us on the west coast to develop the tourism industry. People will have an opportunity to make submissions on their ideas to Fáilte Ireland until next Friday. The Wild Atlantic Way will go through the north west, from Donegal down through Bundoran to Leitrim, which has only two miles of coastline, and to Sligo. We have beautiful scenery such as Glencar Waterfall, Yeats?s grave, which is close to the road, and Seán Mac Diarmada?s cottage. I tabled a motion on the Adjournment relating to the last one and I look forward to a debate on the matter. The cottage is in the same condition as when he left it. We could develop a significant tourism industry in the entire area in line with what has been done in Killarney and Westport. I often wondered why the north west had fallen behind to such an extent. This is a great opportunity for the development of tourism in the region.

Marie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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There has been much controversy this morning about the ¤26 million taken from the carer?s respite grant. The controversy, which should never have happened, will not go away. As an Independent Senator who has, as some describe it, been parachuted in by the Taoiseach, I cannot stand over it. It is profoundly wrong. I respectfully suggest to the Fine Gael and Labour Senators and Deputies that they stop trying to justify it on television and radio. They are finding language, timbre and tones to justify it but it is not working. They cannot pretend that it is a good thing. They would be better off to admit that it is not a good thing and to try to find a solution as a matter of urgency.

The Minister for Finance commenced his Budget Statement with the sentence: ?As budget day is a good day for taking stock of where we are, let us do so.? He went on to tell us that Bank of Ireland, the ESB, Bord Gáis and AIB had made large profits. Part of the large profits are ¤3.7 billion belonging to us, all in AIB, and ¤3.57 billion in Bank of Ireland. I would like both Ministers with responsibility for financial matters to come to the House. I seek that they would free up ¤13 million from each of the two banks to provide the ¤26 million from June. In one way the Minister is suggesting that we have a great deal of money, that the banks are making profits and are back in the markets. The director of Bord Gáis was on a radio programme at the weekend telling us how marvellous Bord Gáis is and how people were running to buy its bonds. Could both Ministers please come to the House and tell me why ¤13 million of our money could not be released from AIB and Bank of Ireland to pay for the cut to the respite care grant? Fine Gael and Labour must stop pretending that it is all right and stop trying to find language to justify the cut because it is not justifiable.

John Gilroy (Labour)
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I commend Senator Darragh O?Brien and his party leader in the other House on coming up with an innovative solution to our political ills, namely, to abolish the party Whip by exhorting Labour and Fine Gael backbenchers in the Dáil and Seanad to defy their parties by voting against the Whip.

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
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They are the ones who were complaining.

John Gilroy (Labour)
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I commend them on that.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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They will not be thrown in prison.

John Gilroy (Labour)
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I wish to ask the Deputy Leader and the House if this is a genuine call for political reform or just cynical exploitation of the legitimate fears of the carers for political gain, which would be uncharacteristic of Fianna Fáil.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Does Senator Gilroy have a question for the Leader?

John Gilroy (Labour)
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That is the question for the Deputy Leader. I seek a debate on the matter.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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The four Labour Deputies who voted against the Whip are out of the party. What is Senator Gilroy talking about?

Feargal Quinn (Independent)
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A few months ago I proposed that we should copy what the French are doing with defibrillators. They have introduced legislation that any company employing more than 50 people should have a defibrillator on the premises with staff trained to use it. A report this week by the Health Research Board shows that if a defibrillator was available in GPs' surgeries, thousands of lives would be saved. If one has a cardiac arrest away from hospital, the chance of survival is only one in 20. A defibrillator costs approximately ¤40,000. If we could provide them in every GP's surgery with people trained to use them, the number of lives saved would be substantial. Such a step could be easily taken. Encouragement must be provided along the lines recommended by the Health Research Board. We could move on the issue immediately.

Michael Mullins (Fine Gael)
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I wish to raise a disturbing report from the Consumers' Association of Ireland indicating that thousands of families are being put at risk by illegally installed gas boilers by non-certified technicians. The report states that 27,000 boilers were sold last year but that only 17,400 were installed by registered installers.

My question concerns the property tax. The belief that private property was an instrument of oppression was a core part of Sinn Féin's manifesto.

Trevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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What about the property portfolio of the Government front bench?

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator Jimmy Harte, without interruption.

Jimmy Harte (Labour)
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Senator Landy has left the House but-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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We do not refer to people who have left the House.

Jimmy Harte (Labour)
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I compliment Senator Landy. We heard that Stormont is oppressive and must be closed down and that Sinn Féin would never enter Stormont but members are sitting there in their big fat seats.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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We are living in the Republic of Ireland.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Has the Senator a question for the Leader?

Jimmy Harte (Labour)
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The principle behind the property tax is a fair tax on people who can afford to pay it.

Brian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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It is a home tax.

Jimmy Harte (Labour)
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We debate the principle behind and the figures relating to it because the principle has already been established in the Six Counties and it works there. I wish to discuss the principle next week. I am sure Sinn Féin will have changed its mind on private property by the time that comes around.

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
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I second the excellent amendment my colleague, Senator White, put forward. I remind the Fine Gael and Labour Senators about the various tweets and statements they made over the past week. My colleague in Meath East, Deputy Regina Doherty, said she was sickened by the cut. Senator Healy Eames said she was not at all happy, while Deputy Simon Harris said that the Minister would have a problem if it was not reversed. These people must act in accordance with what they have said about this cruel cut.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Has the Senator a question for the Leader?

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
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My question relates to a different matter. I am seconding the motion. I propose that the Leader offers a full debate on the judgment of Miss Justice Elizabeth Dunne in July 2011 before we start hearing rhetoric blaming the previous Government.

I understand that a new deal with IMF has been done by this Government which will reverse the impact of the Dunne judgment and allow repossessions to happen en masse. The Dunne judgment relates to an interpretation of the Land Law and Conveyancing Act 2009 which effectively slows up many repossessions. That judgment should not be interfered with and should be legislated for very quickly to protect people. We should also look again at the family home Bill that Senator MacSharry, the rest of my Fianna Fáil colleagues and I put forward and which all the Independent Senators supported. We will not accept a new IMF deal negotiated by this Government. What has the Government got in return from agreeing to repossessions? Have the people of Ireland achieved anything from this, why did it have to be agreed by this Government and why is the IMF interfering in what is effectively an interpretation of Irish statute law? What business is it of the IMF? We were constantly criticised by this Government for the deal done in November 2010 but this is a new deal negotiated by this Government. I do not know the reasons for it and we need a full debate in the Seanad to find out the reasons for this new IMF deal on repossessions.

Colm Burke (Fine Gael)
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There are hard and unpopular decisions in respect of this Budget but in health alone, the number of people benefiting from medical cards has gone from over 1.2 million to over 1.8 million. Between medical cards and GP-only medical cards, the figure will be over 2 million by the end of 2013 and funding must be provided for that. It is about trying to get a balance. In fairness, people have medical cards because incomes have decreased and we must deal with that reality.

Both social welfare and health care will take over ¤34 billion of the entire budget, which is over 60%. That is a significant slice of the budget. It is about trying to secure fairness for everyone across the board. We will not keep everyone happy given the decisions that must be taken. I have no difficulty with having a debate on this matter. We must dismantle a number of things. A simple issue relates to drugs. In 2000, drugs cost the Department of Health and Children ¤556 million. By 2010, the bill was ¤1.9 billion. We will not dismantle that over time. The Minister has already announced a cut of over ¤400 million in that area. That figure of ¤1.9 billion per annum for drugs is what the previous Government left us with without anyone being answerable for it.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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Will the Senator talk about the Taoiseach being lobbied over this? The Senator would be better off sitting down. He is trying to justify the cut in the respite care grant. Did he go outside yesterday and meet anyone? No, he did not.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator Colm Burke, without interruption.

Colm Burke (Fine Gael)
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The Senator was talking about ¤1 million-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

Colm Burke (Fine Gael)
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I have no difficulty having a debate on any issue relating to the budget but let us be constructive in dealing with it and deal with each issue about which people have concerns. Let us look at the overall budget and what we are trying to do in respect of achieving balance and fairness.

The Commission for Energy Regulation states that the number of disconnections more than doubled last year as a result of a crackdown on dodgy installations. This is a matter of major concern. While I accept that people are under financial pressure, opting for an illegal installation of a gas boiler could have tragic consequences. Tougher regulation is needed to protect consumers from this life threatening health and safety issue.

Most consumers are unaware that an approved list of installers is available from the Registered Gas Installers of Ireland. It is illegal for unapproved fitters to install a gas boiler. Lives are being lost every year as a result of carbon monoxide poisoning in the home related to domestic heating and other fossil fuel installations. The serious lack of regulatory enforcement allows illegal installers to continue to put lives at risk without worrying that they will be caught.

We all know the serious consequences of carbon monoxide poisoning. Illegal installation of gas boilers is one aspect of the black economy, which is an issue raised previously in the House. I call for a debate on health and safety, especially the enforcement of regulations on the installation of gas and other fossil fuel systems in homes.

David Cullinane (Sinn Fein)
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I propose an amendment to the Order of Business, namely, that the House discuss No. 26 on the Order Paper, which is a Sinn Féin motion calling for a vote of no confidence in the Government. I ask the Deputy Leader to make time available today or tomorrow to discuss the motion.

Budget 2013 is an assault on families ? as unfair as any we have seen in recent years. By continuing to protect the wealthy, it proves that as long as Fine Gael ideology dominates the Government, ordinary people will suffer.

The comment by the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Pat Rabbitte, in respect of the election commitments given by his Department were nothing short of appalling.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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Hear, hear.

David Cullinane (Sinn Fein)
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Election commitments mean something to the people who vote for political parties. When politicians state at election time that they will act in a certain manner, for example, protect child benefit or maintain college fees at their current level, people expect them to honour those commitments. The Deputy Leader stated yesterday that this is a coalition and compromise is required.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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That is the nature of coalition.

David Cullinane (Sinn Fein)
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Why then did the Labour Party make child benefit and college fees red line issues? By doing so, it indicated to the electorate that these were issues on which it would not buckle and would not sacrifice in any discussions or negotiations on the formation of a Government. The party failed completely and betrayed those who voted for it on the basis of the position it adopted on these issues. It is important that the House debate the election manifestos of the parties in government. For this reason, I move the amendment to the Order of Business to discuss the Sinn Féin motion either today or tomorrow. It is important to give Senators an opportunity to have their say on the broken promises of the Government.

Denis Landy (Labour)
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Senator Cullinane can speak with some authority on compromise given his party's record on compromise in Northern Ireland.

David Cullinane (Sinn Fein)
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We are proud of it.

Denis Landy (Labour)
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I support the view expressed by Senator Aideen Hayden on the proposal on property tax. This matter needs to be addressed. However, I must draw a distinction in this regard in that I am probably a traditionalist because I refer to local authority houses as "council houses". Social housing, on the other hand, is provided by Respond! and other voluntary organisations.

On the issue of misleading advertising, especially in large stores and supermarkets, it is unfair to expose shoppers to signage that suggests one thing but means another. For example, one supermarket displayed a saving on a product in much larger lettering than the actual price. The display featured the word "save" in tiny letters followed by "40 cent" in large lettering, thus leading the unsuspecting shopper to believe the item in question cost 40 cent. The actual price may feature in even smaller lettering.

Another ploy is to have a price of ¤1 placed in front of an item, for example, toothpaste, followed in small lettering by the word "per 25g", whereas the products on the shelf behind the price sign are in 100g sizes. This, too, misleads unsuspecting shoppers. Sterling prices are often displayed in large letters, while the euro price is given a lesser position on the pricing label. This lulls consumers into believing the larger price is the correct one. These examples may not involve breaches of the law but they create confusion and costs for unsuspecting shoppers, especially older people and those with special needs or poor eyesight. As my contribution is not as long as that of Senator Norris, I ask the Cathaoirleach to indulge me for another moment.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator Norris spoke in Leaders' time.

Denis Landy (Labour)
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People with poor eyesight are most at risk from this practice. Busy parents who must look out for children are also an easy target because they are often too busy to return to the queues at customer service desks to complain. They may not notice the cost when paying at the checkout but will notice it when returning home. I ask the Deputy Leader to request that the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Richard Bruton, investigate and remedy this problem in the interests of consumers.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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I raise again the cuts in the respite care grant and move an amendment to the Order of Business requesting that the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Joan Burton, come to the Seanad this evening to apologise. The Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Ruairí Quinn, is a man of principle who had the guts to apologise for cuts in funding to DEIS schools. I will not forget what he did when he saw people protesting about those cuts. I am rarely personal in my contributions but I find it hard to take that the Labour Party leader in the House, Senator Ivana Bacik, can support cuts in the respite care grant.

David Cullinane (Sinn Fein)
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Hear, hear.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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These were introduced for the sake of saving ¤26 million. Does the Government not have any imagination. It may be that too many Ministers are former teachers and trade union officials and do not have a clue about how to be innovative and make savings of ¤26 million elsewhere in their budgets. Yesterday, I attended a protest by carers for the second time. Senators should go outside to another protest by carers which will be held at 1 p.m. tomorrow. I will stick with the protest until the cut in respite care grants is withdrawn. The mantra of carers and those for whom they care is that the cut must be reversed. Why do people enter politics if not to stand up for the weak and vulnerable? People who are ill and receiving care are being forced to humiliate themselves and come out to protest in their wheelchairs.

Colm Burke (Fine Gael)
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The Senator supported large investors when her party was in power.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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The truth is hard to take. I do not know how Labour Party Senators can sit here. They should join the Fine Gael Party once and for all because there is no longer any difference between the two parties.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Is the Senator proposing an amendment to discuss the reversal of the cut in the respite care grant?

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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Yes, I am calling for the Minister to come to the House to discuss the cut. Incidentally, I thank the Cathaoirleach for his support yesterday.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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I have great sympathy with Senator White's argument. I have asked the Minister for Social Protection to examine the figures with a view to reversing the cut in the respite care grant and will do so again next week. However, I remind Fianna Fáil Senators that we are in this unbelievably tough position because of its-----

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
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That is a tired argument.

We played a significant role in the Good Friday Agreement as well as in underpinning it.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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Hear, hear.

Labhrás Ó Murchú (Fianna Fail)
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To remain on the sidelines because it might be politically correct or for any other reason will not help the peace process or cohesion among traditions on the island. We will be seen as being somewhat hypocritical at a time when we should be steadfast.

I appeal to the Deputy Leader. The Government is focused on this issue, but more needs to be done. We will know the full story this evening, but it will not be good. We cannot leave the matter on the shelf over the weekend and forget about it forever. That is not the way forward.

Diarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
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When will the Education and Training Boards Bill 2012 be before the House? I assume it will be after Christmas.

I agree with Senator Quinn regarding defibrillators and their importance. I was present at the death of a person who might have been saved had a defibrillator been present in the building in which he suffered his heart attack. I call on the Deputy Leader to impress upon the Government the importance of having defibrillators in every public building. I assume that there is a defibrillator in this building,-----

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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There is.

Diarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
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-----but where is it and how many of us know how to use it?

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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That is a good point.

Diarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
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Perhaps we should consider this issue.

Yesterday, Senator Eamonn Coghlan raised a point regarding the sports capital grant. In welcoming the allocation of grant moneys throughout the Twenty-six Counties, I agree with the Senator, in that more emphasis should be placed on minority sports.

I will also put the Government on notice concerning an issue that Senator O'Donnell and her colleagues have raised in the House a number of times. Funding for the sports capital grant comes from the national lottery. Fianna Fáil will oppose any attempt by the Government to sell the national lottery licence.

Senators:

Hear, hear.

John Crown (Independent)
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Several colleagues have alluded to the issue already but I want the Leader to seek clarification from the Minister for Health regarding reports of contacts between high-level members of the pharmaceutical sector and the Government in terms of developing policy on drug prices and what the State is prepared to pay.

By way of information for those Senators who are not aware, although they may have heard some figures, I have been dealing with the drug companies for many years in different ways and I know a fair bit about the sector and how it works. Its Irish exports amount to approximately ¤40 billion and Ireland spends less than ¤2 billion per year on drugs. We have such a large manufacturing and export presence because of the 12.5% corporation tax rate, the presence of people who can do the necessary jobs, our membership of the EU, the fact that we speak English and a degree of political stability. It has nothing to do with the size of the domestic market for the sale or purchase of drugs.

Ireland is a very small market. Traditionally, we have had a relatively liberal approval and purchasing regime. It is not the wild west, as someone outrageously described it recently, but a system that is roughly in line with the one that applies in most countries in western Europe that have social democratic-based health systems. It is not in line with the UK's system, which historically has had the most restrictive access to new drugs and the inferior outcome statistics to go with it.

We are dealing with a difficult situation. The pharma manufacturing and export sector is important to our real economy, we have a critical need to decrease costs in our health service and we need to try to maintain ease of access for patients with cystic fibrosis and cancer to drugs that are otherwise difficult to provide. It will be a challenge all round.

Through the office of the Leader, I wish to bring to the attention of the Minister for Health and the Taoiseach, who apparently became involved in this situation, my belief that there is zero linkage between where companies decide to put their factories and what we decide to spend on drugs. They are separate issues. If an attempt was made to represent the situation in any other way by the pharma sector, the Taoiseach should be warned that it was a bit of a stunt.

Martin Conway (Fine Gael)
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I acknowledge and welcome the fact that this is world human rights week. Monday was the UN's day for recognising human rights. Even in a time of recession, we must reflect on whether we as a nation are doing enough to respect and implement the human rights and dignity of our citizens throughout the world.

I welcome the recent announcement by the Minister for Justice and Equality that the new capacity legislation, which will upgrade our mental health legislation, will be published next year. Following its implementation, Ireland will be in a position to sign up to the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities.

Our international record for fighting for human rights is unblemished. For decades, our missionaries have gone to all parts of the Third World and worked tirelessly to try to alleviate poverty in a most hands-on fashion. Our Defence Forces have an unblemished record and their reputation is second to none in terms of the peacekeeping duties they have carried out in Lebanon and other conflict areas.

Given our reputation and the fact that we will take over the Presidency of the EU on 1 January, it is an opportune time to put human rights centre stage and to use our unique six-month position in Europe to promote world human rights and to ensure that the human rights agenda is kept where it should be, namely, to the fore, in all political activity internationally.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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Senator Darragh O'Brien asked for the Minister for Children, Deputy Fitzgerald, to attend the Seanad next week to deal with the aftermath of the Supreme Court judgment in the case taken by Mr. Mark McCrystal on the children's referendum. Otherwise, the Senator will oppose every section of business next week.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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Yes.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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I agree with the Senator that it would be helpful to have the Minister attend, but I cannot accede to it being next week. I immediately sought a response from the Minister during the Order of Business. I am told that the Government is studying the conclusions of the court, but is conscious that the High Court is hearing a petition under the provisions of the Referendum Act 1994. That petition stands adjourned until mid-January in 2013 and the Minister correctly believes that it would be inappropriate to make comment on the case next week.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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That is fair. What about January?

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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The Senator will understand that it would be premature to have the Minister attend. I have not read the judgment and would like an opportunity to study it, as would other colleagues. If relevant matters are still before the courts, it is more appropriate to have the Minister attend afterwards.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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I agree.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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Indeed, I have given a commitment, as has the Leader, to arrange for the Minister to attend for a full post-children's referendum debate. It would be a good time to have a discussion on the judgment, a matter in which all of us are interested. The Senator will appreciate my response.

Senator Darragh O'Brien also raised the issue of the Social Welfare Bill, which will be before the House for three days next week. The Minister will attend for extensive periods over those days and we will have a good opportunity to debate the issues in the Bill. Other Senators also raised issues about the Bill. We will deal with those then.

Senator Paul Coghlan referred to the comments yesterday by the former Director of Corporate Enforcement, Mr. Paul Appleby. All Senators would do well to take note of his remarks, in which he commented adversely on the lack of prosecutions that have been taken against people in respect of banking failures. We should debate banking in the new year.

Senator van Turnhout welcomed the announcement of the missing children's hotline. I agree that it is positive to see it in place, even if it is only for 18 hours per day currently. It will move to 24 hours per day in March. We all note that the motion on youth work will be before the House tonight.

Senator van Turnhout also asked about All Stages of the vetting bureau Bill. The Minister attended the House until 8 p.m. yesterday.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator Healy Eames, without interruption.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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One must go back to first principles to solve a problem. One goes back to the cause of the problem.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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That is not a principle.

Marie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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We are in this position because of Fianna Fáil.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator Healy Eames, without interruption.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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A very interesting report in The Irish Times looks at how our primary school children are doing compared to other children across 60 countries in the developed world. The report concerned the Progress in International Reading Literacy Study and the Trends in International Mathematics and Science Study which showed that we are doing all right but are not great. We are doing quite well in reading but quite poorly in mathematics and science. One conclusion I have come to is that there is a correlation between how well we do and the amount of time we spend on these subjects. We are spending far less time on mathematics and science compared to our counterparts in other countries. What stunned me was that for the first time Northern Ireland is doing extremely well and has come fifth in the world in this area so it is way past us. It is time we had a debate in the House with the Minister for Education and Science to examine what Northern Ireland is doing better in this area.

Marie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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I can answer that.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Has the Senator a question for the Leader?

Marie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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I have the answer if the Senator would like to hear it. We do not need to bring in the Minister.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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I would appreciate being allowed to speak.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Has the Senator a question for the Leader?

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator Healy Eames, without interruption.

Marie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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There are Senators in the House with the answer so why would we need to bring in the Minister?

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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I think I can answer the question myself but it is important that we have a debate.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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I would like to link this to a debate we also need on third level education and outcomes in this area. Yesterday, I attended an outstanding showcase by the Western Development Commission highlighting the businesses it is supporting. Some of these businesses are coming out of our third level institutions.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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The Senator is way over time.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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She is not making much sense anyway.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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The Minister for Education and Science and the Taoiseach in particular should give each third level institution a job creation target and link that to its funding. I know this would be revolutionary but it can be done.

David Norris (Independent)
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It would be rubbish.

Marie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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It would redefine the meaning of education.

David Norris (Independent)
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Total moonshine.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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Many of our third level institutions have the intellectual property but they are not being measured on this. We need to move this intellectual property on to commercialisation and jobs.

Marie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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It would redefine what we mean by intelligence and education.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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It is a worthwhile debate to have. I apologise for all the interruptions and I hope the Leader heard my request.

Sean Barrett (Independent)
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The Cathaoirleach will note that Rory McIlroy has waived his fee for the Irish Open in Carton House next summer.

Marie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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A Senator will not point at me and tell me when I can and cannot speak. The Cathaoirleach may do so but a Senator will not point threateningly at me and tell me when I can and cannot speak.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator Barrett, without interruption.

Sean Barrett (Independent)
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Yesterday, Rory McIlroy waived his fee for appearing in the Irish Open next summer. His participation was already a significant boost and his generous gesture is full of the enthusiasm of youth. He deserves our thanks for a major boost to tourism next season.

David Norris (Independent)
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Hear, hear.

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
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Here is Labour's way or Fianna Fáil's way.

Jimmy Harte (Labour)
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I will appear next Monday night again for everyone.

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator was a witness to that marriage of lies and nonsense.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Has Senator Harte a question for the Leader? Senator Harte, without interruption.

Jimmy Harte (Labour)
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The Senator was a witness to the chaos. It is important to have the debate on the property tax in the House next week. Again, I see Sinn Féin talking about the consistency of its manifesto. The Labour Party and Fine Gael have not changed their manifestos. It was not too long ago that in Sinn Féin's words, private property "has been and remains an instrument of oppression". That disappeared from its manifesto when members started to buy their properties in Donegal. The front bench of Sinn Féin has private property.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Has the Senator a question for the Leader?

Jimmy Harte (Labour)
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My question concerns the property tax. The belief that private property was an instrument of oppression was a core part of Sinn Féin's manifesto.

Trevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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What about the property portfolio of the Government front bench?

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator Jimmy Harte, without interruption.

Jimmy Harte (Labour)
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Senator Landy has left the House but-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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We do not refer to people who have left the House.

Jimmy Harte (Labour)
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I compliment Senator Landy. We heard that Stormont is oppressive and must be closed down and that Sinn Féin would never enter Stormont but members are sitting there in their big fat seats.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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We are living in the Republic of Ireland.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Has the Senator a question for the Leader?

Jimmy Harte (Labour)
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The principle behind the property tax is a fair tax on people who can afford to pay it.

Brian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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It is a home tax.

Jimmy Harte (Labour)
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We debate the principle behind and the figures relating to it because the principle has already been established in the Six Counties and it works there. I wish to discuss the principle next week. I am sure Sinn Féin will have changed its mind on private property by the time that comes around.

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
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I second the excellent amendment my colleague, Senator White, put forward. I remind the Fine Gael and Labour Senators about the various tweets and statements they made over the past week. My colleague in Meath East, Deputy Regina Doherty, said she was sickened by the cut. Senator Healy Eames said she was not at all happy, while Deputy Simon Harris said that the Minister would have a problem if it was not reversed. These people must act in accordance with what they have said about this cruel cut.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Has the Senator a question for the Leader?

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
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My question relates to a different matter. I am seconding the motion. I propose that the Leader offers a full debate on the judgment of Miss Justice Elizabeth Dunne in July 2011 before we start hearing rhetoric blaming the previous Government.

I understand that a new deal with IMF has been done by this Government which will reverse the impact of the Dunne judgment and allow repossessions to happen en masse. The Dunne judgment relates to an interpretation of the Land Law and Conveyancing Act 2009 which effectively slows up many repossessions. That judgment should not be interfered with and should be legislated for very quickly to protect people. We should also look again at the family home Bill that Senator MacSharry, the rest of my Fianna Fáil colleagues and I put forward and which all the Independent Senators supported. We will not accept a new IMF deal negotiated by this Government. What has the Government got in return from agreeing to repossessions? Have the people of Ireland achieved anything from this, why did it have to be agreed by this Government and why is the IMF interfering in what is effectively an interpretation of Irish statute law? What business is it of the IMF? We were constantly criticised by this Government for the deal done in November 2010 but this is a new deal negotiated by this Government. I do not know the reasons for it and we need a full debate in the Seanad to find out the reasons for this new IMF deal on repossessions.

Colm Burke (Fine Gael)
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There are hard and unpopular decisions in respect of this Budget but in health alone, the number of people benefiting from medical cards has gone from over 1.2 million to over 1.8 million. Between medical cards and GP-only medical cards, the figure will be over 2 million by the end of 2013 and funding must be provided for that. It is about trying to get a balance. In fairness, people have medical cards because incomes have decreased and we must deal with that reality.

Both social welfare and health care will take over ¤34 billion of the entire budget, which is over 60%. That is a significant slice of the budget. It is about trying to secure fairness for everyone across the board. We will not keep everyone happy given the decisions that must be taken. I have no difficulty with having a debate on this matter. We must dismantle a number of things. A simple issue relates to drugs. In 2000, drugs cost the Department of Health and Children ¤556 million. By 2010, the bill was ¤1.9 billion. We will not dismantle that over time. The Minister has already announced a cut of over ¤400 million in that area. That figure of ¤1.9 billion per annum for drugs is what the previous Government left us with without anyone being answerable for it.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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Will the Senator talk about the Taoiseach being lobbied over this? The Senator would be better off sitting down. He is trying to justify the cut in the respite care grant. Did he go outside yesterday and meet anyone? No, he did not.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator Colm Burke, without interruption.

Colm Burke (Fine Gael)
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The Senator was talking about ¤1 million-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

Colm Burke (Fine Gael)
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I have no difficulty having a debate on any issue relating to the budget but let us be constructive in dealing with it and deal with each issue about which people have concerns. Let us look at the overall budget and what we are trying to do in respect of achieving balance and fairness.

Trevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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Tá mé ag éirí le tacaíocht a thabhairt don mholadh atá curtha chun cinn ag mo chomhghleacaí, an Seanadóir Cullinane, go dtógfar an rún mímhuiníne sa Rialtas seo. I am seconding the proposed amendment to the Order of Business, that we take the motion of no confidence in the Government. I challenge the Government side to take on this debate. If the Members are confident in their Government, why would they fear the debate?

I was in Kilrush in County Clare last night and I heard many people from different backgrounds speak about their extreme disappointment and anger with some of the budgetary decisions made by the Government. Something similar occurred in Galway on Monday night. Everywhere I go I hear people complaining that a number of measures in the budget are bad for families, low and middle income households, farmers and small and medium enterprises. The budget is bringing us on the wrong road-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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The Senator can make those points during the debate.

Trevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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Yes, but I am pointing out why we need to have the debate, because it has been glossed over by the Government Senators. Senator Colm Burke said the Government has to make hard and unpopular decisions. People do not have an issue with hard or unpopular decisions if those decisions are fair and equitable, but the common feeling is that they do not believe the decisions made in the budget are fair and equitable for people on low and squeezed middle incomes.

I am also perturbed by the mixed messages from Senators on the Government side. For that reason it is important to have that debate here, even though such a debate is taking place in the other House. There is all kinds of jumping up and down for the media by Senators from Fine Gael and the Labour Party saying they are angry about this and that and that they want changes to this and that. However, they then come into the House and defend the Government and the budget. One cannot ride two horses at the same time; one must be with the Government or not. It is important that every Fine Gael and Labour Party Senator in the House tells us exactly where they stand on these cuts. If they are opposed to them, they should oppose them. They were elected to this House by the public so they are public representatives, not Government representatives. The public want them to represent it, so why do they not do that?

Susan O'Keeffe (Labour)
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In the middle of this very difficult debate it was good to be in a room last night surrounded by entrepreneurs, people who are battling the elements and doing their bit to create jobs. I cite a man named Michael Murphy, who now lives in Moville but has travelled the world. He was originally a dairy and food scientist before setting up a company called Moolicious Foods. Forgive me stating the name but he is creating employment. He told me that after battling for four years the company has reached a tipping point where it is so busy that he is hoping the telephone will not ring. It is doing that well. It produces little sticks and pots of milk for airlines throughout the world. This is an example of what can and is being done. He and others in that room were being funded by the Western Development Commission, an organisation that has also battled to maintain its funding. It has managed to do that and is using it in a way that is both targeted and appropriate. It is now considering even smaller, micro-finance funding to help keep some companies going and to support new companies, such as Moolicious Foods, that are only interested in creating jobs.

We had a very good debate earlier this year in which Members across all parties came up with good ideas for entrepreneurs and creating jobs. We should revisit that. I understood we would do so and that the House would, as it were, fly a flag for small and medium enterprises in this country. Could we have that debate early in the new year, given that many new companies have emerged since the last debate? I thank the Western Development Commission for its support for a variety of companies on the western seaboard.

Brian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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Can the Deputy Leader outline the current position of the banking inquiry? There was much fanfare when the Government took office that it was going to deal with the rogue bankers who brought the country to its knees. However, almost two years later we have not seen any significant results from the banking inquiry. Can we invite the Minister for Finance to the House to discuss the up-to-date position of the banking inquiry?

Linked to that is the issue of the massive salaries being paid to bankers in this country, including salaries of more than ¤200,000 per annum being paid to 12 senior officials in the National Asset Management Agency, NAMA. NAMA is an interesting organisation. We tried to bring forward a Bill dealing with transparency in NAMA but it was voted down by Fine Gael and the Labour Party. I hope they will reconsider their position when they hear what I say next and that they will support the Bill when we re-introduce it. Officials are leaving NAMA as well as joining it. Two senior officials that were involved in the HSBC violation, in which that bank repeatedly violated anti-moneylaundering rules and accepted billions of dollars from drug cartels resulting in it having to pay the US Government ¤2 billion, are now employed by NAMA.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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What do you think now, Paul?

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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I think you were in power.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator Ó Domhnaill without interruption.

Brian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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Second, I refer to two senior officials that were previously employed by NAMA. One of them was responsible for handing out a very lucrative contract to a high profile commercial property asset management group. He has now been given a private arrangement with that company and is employed by it. NAMA is acting disgracefully and it is time it was fully investigated. I hope the Fine Gael and Labour Party Senators will support the Bill that Senator Mark Daly brought forward previously and which Fianna Fáil will re-introduce. How can a Government stand over the very questionable practices of an organisation that is the biggest property owner in the world?

Mary Moran (Labour)
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I commend the Government and particularly the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Ruairí Quinn, on the results in the literacy and numeracy report published yesterday, which show that the Government is putting in more time and effort and that the literacy and numeracy strategy is working. Irish national school students were tested from the age of ten. They were tenth out of 45 countries in reading, 17th out of 50 in mathematics and 22nd out of 50 in science. They were all above the international average. It is a good result for primary school education and shows that the system is working.

However, I recognise that there are some concerns and that we cannot afford to become complacent. According to the results, we spend significantly less time on science. I heard a member of the Irish National Teachers Organisation, INTO, on the radio this morning who pointed out that national school teachers do not have the required training in physics, chemistry and general science as part of their teacher training and that we need to consider that. However, I was delighted to hear the Minister, Deputy Quinn, say yesterday that the Government is taking this seriously and that it is working to ensure that our young people are among the most highly educated in the world.

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
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That strategy was introduced in 2008 by the previous Government.

Labhrás Ó Murchú (Fianna Fail)
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Today the family of murdered solicitor Pat Finucane is in England. They will be made aware of the findings of the inquiry into his murder. It is important that they should not feel they are alone. Previously, the British Prime Minister has admitted that there was collusion by state security forces in this murder. The extent of that collusion will be evident today. It is important, as a follow up to the Good Friday Agreement, to have a method of dealing with cases such as this, as distinct from the legal aspect. If they are not dealt with, particularly where there was state involvement, it will not help to underpin the fragile peace process that exists at present.

One of the difficulties in the Republic is that Northern Ireland has gone off the radar. There are a number of reasons for that. Perhaps we are complacent to some extent with the success we already have. Also, other issues, particularly economic, dominate at present. It is important that the Irish Government shows at every opportunity that it, too, has a responsibility and an interest in respect of the current situation.

I understand he will return for the National Vetting Bureau (Children and Vulnerable Persons) Bill. There are only 12 amendments and we will see how the debate goes today. Senator Norris read a letter and I am not sure if a response is required or necessary. I could not quite follow it but I thank the Senator for his eloquence.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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We can give the Senator a copy.

David Norris (Independent)
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A swift response would be appropriate.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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I would like to see the letter before giving a response. Senator Hayden raised the issue of the local property tax, which will be before us over two days next week, and we will have a full debate. Senator Daly asked for a debate on uniting Ireland, which is of interest and a bit different. That was in light of a survey in Northern Ireland on national identity, which I also read with interest. The Leader has committed to having the First Minister and Deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland invited to the House and I hope this will happen some time early in the new year. We might have that debate in that context.

Senator Comiskey spoke about the Wild Atlantic Way in seeking a debate on tourism, which I am sure we can facilitate. Senator O'Donnell spoke about the respite carers grant, and we will have a debate on the Social Welfare Bill. I listened with interest to a Fine Gael Deputy on the radio this morning speaking of the need for a review of the impact of the cut, and we would do well to conduct such a review. The grant is not means-tested but the cut will clearly have an adverse effect and particularly disadvantage some people on low means. A review would be useful and has been raised.

Senator Gilroy has called for a debate on the abolition of the whip system but the question is whether the debate would be subject to a whip. If we are to debate Seanad reform and political reform in general, it would be an issue. Senator Quinn spoke about the need for defibrillators. I understand they are installed in this House and the question is whether enough people are trained to use them. We could look into that.

Senator Mullins commented on the study of the Consumer Association of Ireland on illegal installation of gas boilers. The Senator is quite right and this is a very important issue, so it would be good to have a debate on tougher regulation in the area. There was a tragedy in Trinity College some years ago when a young student died as a result of carbon monoxide poisoning which emanated from a boiler in the home. His father has been very vocal in newspapers since in seeking tougher regulation in the area. We should have that debate.

Senator Cullinane is seeking an amendment to the Order of Business to accommodate the Sinn Féin motion. I cannot accede to that and there will be three days of debate on the Social Welfare Bill and the proposed property tax next week. There will be plenty of opportunity for voting at that point. Senator Cullinane also spoke about election promises from the Labour Party and I advise him to have a look at an excellent piece of analysis by Ms Colette Browne in The Irish Examiner, which points out the differential vote received by the Labour Party and Fine Gael in the last election. Fine Gael Members outnumber Labour Members by two to one in this coalition Government.

David Cullinane (Sinn Fein)
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Who is to blame?

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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Senator Landy reminded Sinn Féin about its record of broken promises in government in Northern Ireland and supported Senator Hayden's points about the property tax. He also raised a separate issue on misleading advertising. If the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation comes to the House in the new year, we might raise the issue.

David Cullinane (Sinn Fein)
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He was speaking from the party manifesto.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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Senator White spoke about respite care cuts and called for an amendment to the Order of Business to allow the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Burton, to come to the House. The Minister will be before the other House today and will be here for three days next week so I cannot agree to the request. Listening to Senator White and other Fianna Fáil Senators, I am sometimes struck that they are still suffering from a sort of "post-Government syndrome". They seem to be so frustrated at having lost power after 14 years of economic mismanagement. They have lost all powers-----

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator is a different person than when she sat there and criticised Fianna Fáil non-stop. She has rolled over completely.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator Bacik, without interruption.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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They have lost powers of reasoning and memory.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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She has rolled over completely with Fine Gael.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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The Senator, without interruption.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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What about the respite care grant and the back to school allowance?

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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If elected to the Seanad, a Member must stand up and be counted.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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What about the cut to child benefit? Go away out of that. I would finish up if I were the Senator. I would just sit down.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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It is very hard to take a lecture from Senator White. We should try to avoid personal comments across the floor of this House; I have always tried to do that.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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As a party member, I take the comments personally.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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As a matter of courtesy-----

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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It is not common courtesy when the Senator criticises our party.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator Bacik, without interruption.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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To comment on people's appearance is a low.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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What is the Senator talking about?

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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Senator Healy Eames reminded Fianna Fáil of its responsibility for the current economic position, which is timely, and sought a debate on the school curriculum. That debate was also being sought by Senator Moran while welcoming survey results on education. The Senator also noted how well Northern Ireland is doing, which is important. We should have the debate and consider, in particular, how to increase the emphasis on maths and science teaching, where there are clear ongoing difficulties.

Senator Barrett mentioned how golfer Rory McIlroy is waiving his fee at Carton House, a good reminder of what can be done. Senator Harte spoke about the property tax and there will be a chance to debate it in this House on Wednesday and Thursday next week. Senator Byrne mentioned Ms Justice Dunne's judgment on repossessions in speaking about a new deal with the IMF. I was puzzled by those comments. He knows that on foot of the November 2010 sell-out by Fianna Fáil and entry into the troika programme, regular reviews are required-----

Brian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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This is a deal by the current Government through the back door.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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This issue arose in the latest review. It is not a new deal. Senator Colm Burke commented on the budget and the need to be constructive in dealing rationally with it. That is an important point and I hope colleagues will remember it next week. Senator Ó Clochartaigh seconded the Sinn Féin amendment, which cannot be agreed. Senator O'Keeffe reminded us of a positive story in the Western Development Commission's support for entrepreneurs, and I commend the entrepreneurs who have been supported by the commission and who are doing so much for job creation. Senator Ó Domhnaill asked the current position of the banking inquiry and I will seek the answer to that. Senator Moran welcomed the literacy and numeracy strategy.

Senator Ó Murchú spoke about the Finucane family and the developments in the Pat Finucane case. There is cross-party agreement on the matter and I raised it in the House yesterday. We welcome the publication today of the independent review by Sir Desmond de Silva, QC, and there is all-party support for the family's request for a full public inquiry into the murder of Mr. Pat Finucane. I know the Taoiseach and Tánaiste have met the Finucane family on a number of occasions to hear concerns first-hand and reaffirm the long-standing position of the Irish Government on the Finucane case, including its continued support for the family. Those concerns have been raised with the British Government on a number of occasions. It is at least one issue we are ad idem. I support the Senator in the issue.

Senator Wilson asked about the Education and Training Boards Bill. I believe it will be in the new year but I have not been told when. Senator Crown spoke about the issue of costs in the pharmaceutical industry, raising some very sensible points about VAT. The Senator should convey them to the Minister for Health. Senator Conway mentioned World Human Rights Week and the capacity legislation, which we will all welcome when it comes before the House. We have had extensive hearings in the justice committee on the heads of the Bill. The Senator also called for human rights to be a key priority in Ireland's Presidency of the EU. We would support that and I note that the Minister of State, Deputy Joe Costello, has indicated that human rights in Syria will be a key concern for Irish Presidency of the EU, which is welcome.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator Cullinane has proposed an amendment to the Order of Business: "That No. 26, motion No. 14, be taken today." Is the amendment being pressed?

David Cullinane (Sinn Fein)
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Yes.

Labhrás Ó Murchú (Fianna Fail)
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We played a significant role in the Good Friday Agreement as well as in underpinning it.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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Hear, hear.

Labhrás Ó Murchú (Fianna Fail)
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To remain on the sidelines because it might be politically correct or for any other reason will not help the peace process or cohesion among traditions on the island. We will be seen as being somewhat hypocritical at a time when we should be steadfast.

I appeal to the Deputy Leader. The Government is focused on this issue, but more needs to be done. We will know the full story this evening, but it will not be good. We cannot leave the matter on the shelf over the weekend and forget about it forever. That is not the way forward.

Diarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
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When will the Education and Training Boards Bill 2012 be before the House? I assume it will be after Christmas.

I agree with Senator Quinn regarding defibrillators and their importance. I was present at the death of a person who might have been saved had a defibrillator been present in the building in which he suffered his heart attack. I call on the Deputy Leader to impress upon the Government the importance of having defibrillators in every public building. I assume that there is a defibrillator in this building,-----

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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There is.

Diarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
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-----but where is it and how many of us know how to use it?

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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That is a good point.

Diarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
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Perhaps we should consider this issue.

Yesterday, Senator Eamonn Coghlan raised a point regarding the sports capital grant. In welcoming the allocation of grant moneys throughout the Twenty-six Counties, I agree with the Senator, in that more emphasis should be placed on minority sports.

I will also put the Government on notice concerning an issue that Senator O'Donnell and her colleagues have raised in the House a number of times. Funding for the sports capital grant comes from the national lottery. Fianna Fáil will oppose any attempt by the Government to sell the national lottery licence.

Senators:

Hear, hear.

John Crown (Independent)
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Several colleagues have alluded to the issue already but I want the Leader to seek clarification from the Minister for Health regarding reports of contacts between high-level members of the pharmaceutical sector and the Government in terms of developing policy on drug prices and what the State is prepared to pay.

By way of information for those Senators who are not aware, although they may have heard some figures, I have been dealing with the drug companies for many years in different ways and I know a fair bit about the sector and how it works. Its Irish exports amount to approximately ¤40 billion and Ireland spends less than ¤2 billion per year on drugs. We have such a large manufacturing and export presence because of the 12.5% corporation tax rate, the presence of people who can do the necessary jobs, our membership of the EU, the fact that we speak English and a degree of political stability. It has nothing to do with the size of the domestic market for the sale or purchase of drugs.

Ireland is a very small market. Traditionally, we have had a relatively liberal approval and purchasing regime. It is not the wild west, as someone outrageously described it recently, but a system that is roughly in line with the one that applies in most countries in western Europe that have social democratic-based health systems. It is not in line with the UK's system, which historically has had the most restrictive access to new drugs and the inferior outcome statistics to go with it.

We are dealing with a difficult situation. The pharma manufacturing and export sector is important to our real economy, we have a critical need to decrease costs in our health service and we need to try to maintain ease of access for patients with cystic fibrosis and cancer to drugs that are otherwise difficult to provide. It will be a challenge all round.

Through the office of the Leader, I wish to bring to the attention of the Minister for Health and the Taoiseach, who apparently became involved in this situation, my belief that there is zero linkage between where companies decide to put their factories and what we decide to spend on drugs. They are separate issues. If an attempt was made to represent the situation in any other way by the pharma sector, the Taoiseach should be warned that it was a bit of a stunt.

Martin Conway (Fine Gael)
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I acknowledge and welcome the fact that this is world human rights week. Monday was the UN's day for recognising human rights. Even in a time of recession, we must reflect on whether we as a nation are doing enough to respect and implement the human rights and dignity of our citizens throughout the world.

I welcome the recent announcement by the Minister for Justice and Equality that the new capacity legislation, which will upgrade our mental health legislation, will be published next year. Following its implementation, Ireland will be in a position to sign up to the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities.

Our international record for fighting for human rights is unblemished. For decades, our missionaries have gone to all parts of the Third World and worked tirelessly to try to alleviate poverty in a most hands-on fashion. Our Defence Forces have an unblemished record and their reputation is second to none in terms of the peacekeeping duties they have carried out in Lebanon and other conflict areas.

Given our reputation and the fact that we will take over the Presidency of the EU on 1 January, it is an opportune time to put human rights centre stage and to use our unique six-month position in Europe to promote world human rights and to ensure that the human rights agenda is kept where it should be, namely, to the fore, in all political activity internationally.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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Senator Darragh O'Brien asked for the Minister for Children, Deputy Fitzgerald, to attend the Seanad next week to deal with the aftermath of the Supreme Court judgment in the case taken by Mr. Mark McCrystal on the children's referendum. Otherwise, the Senator will oppose every section of business next week.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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Yes.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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I agree with the Senator that it would be helpful to have the Minister attend, but I cannot accede to it being next week. I immediately sought a response from the Minister during the Order of Business. I am told that the Government is studying the conclusions of the court, but is conscious that the High Court is hearing a petition under the provisions of the Referendum Act 1994. That petition stands adjourned until mid-January in 2013 and the Minister correctly believes that it would be inappropriate to make comment on the case next week.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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That is fair. What about January?

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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The Senator will understand that it would be premature to have the Minister attend. I have not read the judgment and would like an opportunity to study it, as would other colleagues. If relevant matters are still before the courts, it is more appropriate to have the Minister attend afterwards.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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I agree.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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Indeed, I have given a commitment, as has the Leader, to arrange for the Minister to attend for a full post-children's referendum debate. It would be a good time to have a discussion on the judgment, a matter in which all of us are interested. The Senator will appreciate my response.

Senator Darragh O'Brien also raised the issue of the Social Welfare Bill, which will be before the House for three days next week. The Minister will attend for extensive periods over those days and we will have a good opportunity to debate the issues in the Bill. Other Senators also raised issues about the Bill. We will deal with those then.

Senator Paul Coghlan referred to the comments yesterday by the former Director of Corporate Enforcement, Mr. Paul Appleby. All Senators would do well to take note of his remarks, in which he commented adversely on the lack of prosecutions that have been taken against people in respect of banking failures. We should debate banking in the new year.

Senator van Turnhout welcomed the announcement of the missing children's hotline. I agree that it is positive to see it in place, even if it is only for 18 hours per day currently. It will move to 24 hours per day in March. We all note that the motion on youth work will be before the House tonight.

Senator van Turnhout also asked about All Stages of the vetting bureau Bill. The Minister attended the House until 8 p.m. yesterday.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator White has moved an amendment to the Order of Business, "That the debate with the Minister for Social Protection on the need to reverse the decision to reduce the respite care grant be taken today." Is the amendment being pressed?

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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Yes.

Averil Power (Fianna Fail)
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That might need to be connected in a Government context to the introduction of regulation to cover particular people working in the child care sector. Proper regulation and a registration system for nannies and au pairs, for example, has been called for. Perhaps it needs to be connected with that. I had hoped that, at least if the Minister rejected the amendments on the basis of their lack of sophistication, which I accept, but he accepted the principle underpinning them, he could offer a way to provide for this categories of child minders. For example, we do not want a situation to arise where someone working as a nanny represents a child welfare risk and such a person simply moves to work in another home? That is dangerous and wrong and it should not be beyond the capability of the House to find a way to address it.

Jillian van Turnhout (Independent)
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I also tabled an amendment to deal with this issue. The difficulty I have is there is one big anomaly in the vetting and protection of children. The Child Care Act 1991 distinguishes three groups. Everyone is in agreement that the first group under section 58(a) are the relatives of the child or children or the spouse of such relatives but that is not what we are seeking to amend. We are referring to sections 58(b) and 58(c), which concern a person taking care of one or more preschool children of the same family and no other such children in that person's home, or a person taking care of not more than three preschool children of different families in his or her home. A total of 92% of victims are abused by either a direct family member, somebody known to the family or somebody trusted by the family. The fact that the children are being minded in their home means they are members of a high risk group and, therefore, we need to explode the "stranger danger" myth. The reality is a child is most likely to be abused by someone known to, and trusted by, the family.

I agree with the Minister that there is a major difference between an informal, occasional child minding arrangement and an ongoing arrangement for a monetary consideration, which is what we are concerned with. I listened carefully to the Minister's argument and I could use the same argument not to vet tennis coaches because they often engage in one-on-one training of children in a private arrangement with their families. I do not know why the Minister is protecting this group. This sector is unregulated. The Minister said the parents would have to vet. Why can such child minders not have to become a member of a professional organisation such as Childminding Ireland, or Early Childhood Ireland. Why can those organisations not vet on behalf of the parents? There are ways around this. Parents need to know the person minding their child in their home, as opposed to a public place or somewhere other people can interact with them, has been vetted. These minders are members of a high-risk group and that is why I tabled an amendment. I do not say it is a perfect amendment and I will be happy with any amendment that deals with this issue. This anomaly needs to be addressed.

Paschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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I am also disappointed with the Minister. The argument has been made clear relative to his response. This is about persons who do this work for reward, specifically set up a child minding service and who may not even know the children. This is not about those engaged in personal intrafamily arrangements or neighbours. They may have a vague relationship with the families and be from the same neighbourhood but there would not be the intimacy the Minister's reply suggested.

My understanding, following discussions with his officials prior to Second Stage, is a self-employed person could be construed as a relevant organisation. In other words, he or she would be legally obliged to register under the legislation. Will the Minister clarify the position on this for Report Stage? Nothing in the section refers to the category of persons we are discussing, which is probably the Minister's difficulty. If clarify could be brought to that, the self-employed could be deemed to be legally obliged to register.

I have a particular interest in this as chairman of Leitrim county childcare committee, which is part of a quasi-national organisation. The vetting issue comes up on a regular basis not only in the context of our board meetings but in our interactions with other statutory committees throughout the State. Some of my colleagues have said that there should not only be a legal obligation on child minders to ensure they are vetted under the new legislation but there should be a designated person within the family who should also be required to vet whenever the primary child minder has to leave the house. The last time I heard reference to stranger danger was a massive hit by Stella Parton, a sister of Dolly Parton, with a song called "The Dangers of a Stranger". I am sure she was not necessarily singing about child abuse but it reminds people of the issue.

Perhaps an accommodation can be found within the section that might provide that a self-employed child minder would be legally obliged to be vetted, which might address the problem.

Diarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome Deputy Noel Grealish and his guests to the Visitors Gallery.

Trevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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The Minister and I may often have grave disagreements on issues of political expediency and policy but I do not underestimate his ability as a legislator. What has been said is logical and makes a great deal of sense. We almost need to step back from this. Similar to Senator Mooney, I was chairman of the Galway city and county childcare committee for a number of years and one of the biggest issues we had was ensuring formal recognition of people working as child minders, which is difficult. The more burdens placed on them, the more difficult it was to get them on board as registered child minders. However, the issues raised by Senators Power, van Turnhout and Power are valid. The intention of the legislation is to make society safer for children, no matter which adults come into contact with them. In vetting people who deal with children, it is important to make sure we can take everyone possible into the net in order that it is ensured that anybody who might be a potential danger to children can be identified. The Minister would be well able to do that if the will was there.

The second line of amendment No. 1 states, "in their individual capacity, engages in the provision of child-minding...". If that was changed to "in their professional capacity", would that delineate between somebody who is child minding as part of a casual arrangement in a family scenario and professional child minders? That would indicate that this is what the person does for a living. Would tweaking the wording of the amendment allow the Minister to encompass the safety element suggested by the other Senators while not making it cumbersome and awkward to police? I take that point on board because, as somebody who dealt with the child minding sector in Galway, the issue was always whether vetting could be policed and resourced, given there are many child minders. The amendments have been tabled in good faith and they make sense. I urge the Minister, given his eminent legal ability, to find a wording that takes on board the suggestions being made.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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We discussed this difficult issue on Second Stage and we all appreciate a balance must be struck between ensuring the safety of children, which is a paramount consideration, and ensuring the legislation is reasonable. The Minister is correct to point out that reward cannot be the criterion. I know as a parent this is not just about a neighbour's child baby-sitting my child.

I understand he will return for the National Vetting Bureau (Children and Vulnerable Persons) Bill. There are only 12 amendments and we will see how the debate goes today. Senator Norris read a letter and I am not sure if a response is required or necessary. I could not quite follow it but I thank the Senator for his eloquence.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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We can give the Senator a copy.

David Norris (Independent)
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A swift response would be appropriate.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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I would like to see the letter before giving a response. Senator Hayden raised the issue of the local property tax, which will be before us over two days next week, and we will have a full debate. Senator Daly asked for a debate on uniting Ireland, which is of interest and a bit different. That was in light of a survey in Northern Ireland on national identity, which I also read with interest. The Leader has committed to having the First Minister and Deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland invited to the House and I hope this will happen some time early in the new year. We might have that debate in that context.

Senator Comiskey spoke about the Wild Atlantic Way in seeking a debate on tourism, which I am sure we can facilitate. Senator O'Donnell spoke about the respite carers grant, and we will have a debate on the Social Welfare Bill. I listened with interest to a Fine Gael Deputy on the radio this morning speaking of the need for a review of the impact of the cut, and we would do well to conduct such a review. The grant is not means-tested but the cut will clearly have an adverse effect and particularly disadvantage some people on low means. A review would be useful and has been raised.

Senator Gilroy has called for a debate on the abolition of the whip system but the question is whether the debate would be subject to a whip. If we are to debate Seanad reform and political reform in general, it would be an issue. Senator Quinn spoke about the need for defibrillators. I understand they are installed in this House and the question is whether enough people are trained to use them. We could look into that.

Senator Mullins commented on the study of the Consumer Association of Ireland on illegal installation of gas boilers. The Senator is quite right and this is a very important issue, so it would be good to have a debate on tougher regulation in the area. There was a tragedy in Trinity College some years ago when a young student died as a result of carbon monoxide poisoning which emanated from a boiler in the home. His father has been very vocal in newspapers since in seeking tougher regulation in the area. We should have that debate.

Senator Cullinane is seeking an amendment to the Order of Business to accommodate the Sinn Féin motion. I cannot accede to that and there will be three days of debate on the Social Welfare Bill and the proposed property tax next week. There will be plenty of opportunity for voting at that point. Senator Cullinane also spoke about election promises from the Labour Party and I advise him to have a look at an excellent piece of analysis by Ms Colette Browne in The Irish Examiner, which points out the differential vote received by the Labour Party and Fine Gael in the last election. Fine Gael Members outnumber Labour Members by two to one in this coalition Government.

David Cullinane (Sinn Fein)
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Who is to blame?

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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Senator Landy reminded Sinn Féin about its record of broken promises in government in Northern Ireland and supported Senator Hayden's points about the property tax. He also raised a separate issue on misleading advertising. If the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation comes to the House in the new year, we might raise the issue.

David Cullinane (Sinn Fein)
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He was speaking from the party manifesto.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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Senator White spoke about respite care cuts and called for an amendment to the Order of Business to allow the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Burton, to come to the House. The Minister will be before the other House today and will be here for three days next week so I cannot agree to the request. Listening to Senator White and other Fianna Fáil Senators, I am sometimes struck that they are still suffering from a sort of "post-Government syndrome". They seem to be so frustrated at having lost power after 14 years of economic mismanagement. They have lost all powers-----

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator is a different person than when she sat there and criticised Fianna Fáil non-stop. She has rolled over completely.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator Bacik, without interruption.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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They have lost powers of reasoning and memory.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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She has rolled over completely with Fine Gael.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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The Senator, without interruption.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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What about the respite care grant and the back to school allowance?

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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If elected to the Seanad, a Member must stand up and be counted.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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What about the cut to child benefit? Go away out of that. I would finish up if I were the Senator. I would just sit down.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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It is very hard to take a lecture from Senator White. We should try to avoid personal comments across the floor of this House; I have always tried to do that.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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As a party member, I take the comments personally.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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As a matter of courtesy-----

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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It is not common courtesy when the Senator criticises our party.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator Bacik, without interruption.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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To comment on people's appearance is a low.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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What is the Senator talking about?

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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Senator Healy Eames reminded Fianna Fáil of its responsibility for the current economic position, which is timely, and sought a debate on the school curriculum. That debate was also being sought by Senator Moran while welcoming survey results on education. The Senator also noted how well Northern Ireland is doing, which is important. We should have the debate and consider, in particular, how to increase the emphasis on maths and science teaching, where there are clear ongoing difficulties.

Senator Barrett mentioned how golfer Rory McIlroy is waiving his fee at Carton House, a good reminder of what can be done. Senator Harte spoke about the property tax and there will be a chance to debate it in this House on Wednesday and Thursday next week. Senator Byrne mentioned Ms Justice Dunne's judgment on repossessions in speaking about a new deal with the IMF. I was puzzled by those comments. He knows that on foot of the November 2010 sell-out by Fianna Fáil and entry into the troika programme, regular reviews are required-----

Brian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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This is a deal by the current Government through the back door.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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This issue arose in the latest review. It is not a new deal. Senator Colm Burke commented on the budget and the need to be constructive in dealing rationally with it. That is an important point and I hope colleagues will remember it next week. Senator Ó Clochartaigh seconded the Sinn Féin amendment, which cannot be agreed. Senator O'Keeffe reminded us of a positive story in the Western Development Commission's support for entrepreneurs, and I commend the entrepreneurs who have been supported by the commission and who are doing so much for job creation. Senator Ó Domhnaill asked the current position of the banking inquiry and I will seek the answer to that. Senator Moran welcomed the literacy and numeracy strategy.

Senator Ó Murchú spoke about the Finucane family and the developments in the Pat Finucane case. There is cross-party agreement on the matter and I raised it in the House yesterday. We welcome the publication today of the independent review by Sir Desmond de Silva, QC, and there is all-party support for the family's request for a full public inquiry into the murder of Mr. Pat Finucane. I know the Taoiseach and Tánaiste have met the Finucane family on a number of occasions to hear concerns first-hand and reaffirm the long-standing position of the Irish Government on the Finucane case, including its continued support for the family. Those concerns have been raised with the British Government on a number of occasions. It is at least one issue we are ad idem. I support the Senator in the issue.

Senator Wilson asked about the Education and Training Boards Bill. I believe it will be in the new year but I have not been told when. Senator Crown spoke about the issue of costs in the pharmaceutical industry, raising some very sensible points about VAT. The Senator should convey them to the Minister for Health. Senator Conway mentioned World Human Rights Week and the capacity legislation, which we will all welcome when it comes before the House. We have had extensive hearings in the justice committee on the heads of the Bill. The Senator also called for human rights to be a key priority in Ireland's Presidency of the EU. We would support that and I note that the Minister of State, Deputy Joe Costello, has indicated that human rights in Syria will be a key concern for Irish Presidency of the EU, which is welcome.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator Cullinane has proposed an amendment to the Order of Business: "That No. 26, motion No. 14, be taken today." Is the amendment being pressed?

David Cullinane (Sinn Fein)
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Yes.