John Whelan (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I move:

That Seanad Éireann:
- welcomes the passage in 2009 of the Charities Act 2009 which provides for the regulation and supervision of the charitable sector;
- recognises that the charitable sector occupies a place of central importance in our society and economy;
- recalls that the objectives of the Charities Act include the enhancement of public trust and confidence in charities and increased transparency in the sector;
- further welcomes the commencement of certain sections of the Charities Act through Statutory Instruments 284/2009 and 315/2010;
- understands that there are resource considerations that have led to the deferral for the present of further implementation of the Charities Act;
- recognises the role played by the charities sector in enhancing its transparency and accountability, including with respect to levels of remuneration packages and administration costs; and further recognises the potential for voluntary codes of practice to play a part in this; and
- notes that it remains the intention of the Government to implement the Act in full as resources permit and looks forward to the full implementation of the Act.

There is no intention to cast aspersions on any charity or disparage anyone or the excellent work conducted in Ireland and abroad by those involved in the fantastic charity sector and the vibrant voluntary sector that makes a significant contribution across a range of areas and services on a daily basis. What we seek is greater accountability and transparency which will underpin rather than undermine the important work done by the charity sector. There is substantial evidence that guidelines, voluntary codes of practice, even with the best of intentions, self-regulation and light touch regulation, as we have found to our cost, do not work. This has been proved time and again across all strata and sections of society. If we are to learn anything from the mistakes of the past, it is that a hands-off, fingers crossed, laissez-faire approach is a recipe for disaster where everybody ends up paying a high price for the sins of a few.

The Charities Act 2009 is good legislation. It took the best part of ten years to get it through the Oireachtas following widespread consultation with stakeholders in the charity sector, a number of whom are in the Visitors Gallery. No one who is responsible and none of the key players and stakeholders within the sector is impeding implementation of the legislation; on the contrary, they are appealing to the Government to implement it. We are trying to give impetus to their endeavours to ensure their good work is not impeded by doubts about how funding is utilised. There is far too much at stake.

I acknowledge the assistance provided by the Library and Research Service in preparing for the debate. It provided the data and information which formed the basis for the motion. I thought I knew a little about what was going on in the charity sector. While many of the players are small operators, there are 7,800 charities registered and recognised by the Revenue Commissioners. I was astounded to find through a multiplicity of sources - philanthropy, donations from a generous public and State aid by way of grants and supports provided by the taxpayer - that the estimated resources available to the sector on an annual basis was €6 billion, virtually half the budget of the Department of Health which is experiencing its own difficulties, as the Minister of State is aware. There is a high level of scrutiny across all sectors of public expenditure, rightly so.

Some of the cutbacks in the health sector are difficult to bear and hard to fathom. I have in mind home helps, personal assistants and carers. Last week in County Laois two respite homes were under threat of closure. Given the cutbacks, we would be negligent in our duty if we did not ensure we got the best value from all resources and reserves. At a time when the Department of Health and the Health Service Executive are agonising daily on service provision it cannot follow that there is not the same level of scrutiny, transparency and accountability and the best value is not achieved, as brought to our attention regularly by Senator Sean D. Barrett, from the significant investment and resources made available to the charity and voluntary sector.

We are not having a go at the Minister for Justice and Equality who is responsible for implementation of the Charities Act 2009. I understand he is being curtailed and restricted by his Cabinet colleagues, the Minister for Finance and the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, who say it would be too expensive and not cost effective at this time to establish what some have incorrectly characterised as a new quango in the office of a charity regulator. That is false economy and ill-judged; it is penny wise and pound foolish. If there was the political will, a way would be found to implement the Act in full and establish an office of regulator, without it becoming a monstrosity, to serve the charity sector, assist it in its work, underwrite its bona fidesand ensure public money is well spent.

It has been stated there is a danger one could tar everyone with the same brush, but that is not the purpose of this exercise, as the vast majority of charities operate to the highest standards and are pushing for implementation of the Act. All it takes is one bad egg or a few bad apples to give the entire sector a bad name, undermine public trust and the entire funding process begins to unravel and the good work is damaged indefinitely. Given substantial annual funding of €6 billion, it would be foolish to think that without scrutiny by an office of regulator that in every instance we would be afforded good value. There is substantial duplication and an overlap. I question the idea that one should be able to set up a charity and call it after oneself by having a few open buckets to start collecting and expect the public to believe it is all hunky-dory. This is not just my view but a sentiment echoed recently by the Ombudsman and Information Commissioner, Ms Emily O'Reilly, who said the rules of good governance and ethical behaviour should apply to small charitable institutions as much as they did to large banks. She went on to say that the day would come when a largely uncritical and undemanding public that contributed to and supported charitable causes would begin to demand a larger say in how one went about one's business. Therefore, I have tabled the motion in good faith and with the best of intentions. An Act that took a long time to get through the Houses of the Oireachtas should not be left languishing on the shelf to gather dust but put to good use in the interests of the charity sector to recognise the generosity of the people and ensure we get the best value for money and that if there are persons who are unscrupulous, it might help to weed them out.

Lorraine Higgins (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I welcome former Senator Kathleen O'Meara.

Ms O'Meara works for the Irish Cancer Society. I see Mr. Hans Zomer from Dóchas who has been very strong in his efforts to establish a governance code for charities. Well done to him. I am pleased to participate in the debate and to second the Labour Party group’s Private Members’ motion on the Charities Act 2009. This is important legislation which, when it takes effect and is enforced, will place obligations and responsibilities on trustees and directors of charities and the charities themselves. The soon-to-be enforced legislation will also result in increased transparency and accountability for charities operating in this country. As a sector that benefits to the tune of millions of euro per annum from the Government and the public alike, it is imperative that the Government, as custodian of taxpayers' money, ensures the sector is regulated as we have learned, unfortunately, in other sectors of society that lack of regulation or enforcement can present us with significant problems.

I am a fervent supporter of the great work many charities do in this country. I recognise the important role they play locally, nationally and internationally. As a public representative I have engaged with many charities and their services on behalf of constituents. Their readiness to help and their impact must never be underestimated. They are of critical importance in every small town and village in the country and their tentacles stretch as far as delivering services in health, social services, education and emergency relief. From an international dimension we must not forget the part Irish charities play in helping to keep Ireland's international reputation right up there among the greatest benevolent countries in the world. This cannot be underestimatedwhen it comes to alleviating crises in war-torn and hunger ravaged countries.
With 11,700 organisations in Ireland, they also play a significant role in the socialisation of this country given the large numbers engaged in various humanitarian causes. In 2009, more than 100,000 people were employed by charities, with 560,000 volunteers and more than 50,000 people directly involved with their governance as directors. Furthermore, the combined turnover of these organisations is €5.75 billion which accounts for more than 3.25% of national income, which is not an inconsiderable amount. However, we must put the issue in the current context. Our economic climate and the financially straitened times in which we find ourselves present many challenges for charities. These pressures have had a detrimental impact on fund-raising at a time when most charities are experiencing an unprecedented demand for their services. In particular, almost 60% of organisations have experienced a decrease in income in the past three years, while two thirds of non-profit organisations have seen an increase in beneficiary numbers over the same period.
The Charities Act 2009 was passed on 28 February 2009 and represents a watershed for how the community and voluntary sector in Ireland will operate. As a consequence, all charities will have to comply with the new regulatory framework. The legal obligations and responsibilities pertaining to employees and management of charities is fully defined within the Act. Its principal aim is to acquire higher standards from the charities themselves and the main thrust of the Act is threefold. It seeks to achieve the following: ensure greater accountability for charities; protect against abuse of charitable status and fraud; and enhance public trust and confidence in charities. To that end the following measures will be introduced: a new charities regulatory authority will be set up to secure compliance by charities with their legal obligations; a new register of charities will be introduced and all charities operating in the State must register; it will be a requirement that the annual activity reports by charities be submitted to the new authority; the law relating to fund-raising and in particular to collections by way of direct debits will be clarified; a new charity appeals tribunal will be set up; and consultative panels will be introduced to assist the authority in its work and to ensure effective consultation with stakeholders.
These are all very important reforms, not least because charities in Ireland are the last sector in Irish life enjoying a high degree of unconditional trust from the public. As a lawyer, I am more than familiar with individuals making bequests to charities upon their death, something that can very often be the lifeblood of not-for-profit organisations. With Irish people readily contributing to good causes a greater focus is required for the achievement of maximum value for money for every cent spent - with clear accountability and measurable results. It is imperative that we make our decisions to donate based on knowledge of the percentage of funding trickling down to the coalface and targeting those who need it most. In that regard, one of the most important provisions of the Act is that all charities will be required to provide the authority with annual activity reports which I presume will be accessible to a charity's donors. However, we must be mindful that in the absence of the enforcement of the legislation we may very well usurp the trust that has been built up between the public and charities alike. To that end we must ensure that the entire sector and the goodwill it gets from the public is not decimated as a consequence of a financial scandal raising its ugly head. That is something we should be keen to avoid so that all genuine charities working hard for their respective causes can continue, safe in the knowledge that their sector is properly regulated and free from such risks. It is vitally important that we uphold the highest possible standards when it comes to charities.
While I have focused up to now on the pioneering rules about to be enforced, I take the opportunity to acknowledge and laud the great work done by organisations such as Dóchas and The Wheel, among others,which have endeavoured to voluntarily change the standards applicable to the not-for-profit sector. They have shown great initiative in their own individual endeavours and the spearheading of a governance code for community, voluntary and charitable organisations is a wonderful feat. While their efforts go some way towards initiating a charter for charities, if one likes, it is now imperative for us as a Government to help complement their efforts with the enactment of effective legislation.
While I acknowledge we are now in different times and in a different economic space, we are beginning to emerge from the abyss. Recent years have been difficult for the Government which means it has been hard to make a case for setting up a charities regulatory authority and an appeals board at a time when the country is trying to get off its back and bridge the current budgetary deficit. The cost associated with implementing the central tenet of the legislation is something we cannot afford when we still have the troika in the country. Its presence is not expected to be perennial. However, it does remain a specific and unique challenge facing the Government. While I know and understand that it is the intention of the Government to implement the Act in full, as resources permit, let us prioritise it when we are back on our feet.
I welcome the opportunity to contribute on this issue and hope some of the issues raised by me and my colleague, Senator Whelan, among other group members, will be taken on board by the Minister. It is imperative that the Government and the not-for-profit sector work together in solidarity to achieve the same goals of transparency, accountability and value for money. That is the only way we can move forward together. I acknowledge the presence of the Minister of State, Deputy Kathleen Lynch. I was so anxious to make my speech that I was unaware the Minister of State was sitting in front of me. I apologise for the oversight.

Labhrás Ó Murchú (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Kathleen Lynch, and compliment the Labour Party Senators on tabling this motion because it gives us an opportunity to express our appreciation to the charities sector. The 2009 Act should be viewed in a positive way. If one studies the sections of the Act it is exceptionally clear that an effort is being made to preserve the good name of the charities sector. It is also clear that existing charities will automatically be able to go onto the register. At the same time it is clear in the legislation that smaller charities that might wish to register will not be overawed or daunted by documentation. All of those messages are particularly important in case the message is going out in some way that we are endeavouring to undermine or make more difficult the work of charitable organisations in this country. It is clear that this country has a particularly proud record when it comes to responding generously to various causes. Good causes are exceptionally prevalent, yet each time we hear of a new charity, requirement or necessity whether at home or abroad, on a per capita basis this country must be top of the league in terms of donations.
If we are fair to the organisations that currently exist - it is particularly true and probably amplified in many ways at present - the charitable organisations are the reserve troops in a time of urgency and necessity in combatting the effects of poverty and other issues. One can only surmise and imagine - we all know what the answer would be - what Irish life would be like and also what the terrible emergencies that exist internationally would be like if we did not have those same organisations who take up the challenge on our behalf.

I do not know how other people feel but those of us who have some little bit of finance to spare in our lives always feel grateful to the charities for being there to accept our contribution and being able to use it in a professional and direct way. We wonder how we ourselves might do this. Would it be a matter of giving some money to a person on the street who needs it? I will not be sanctimonious and say we should not do that but the important thing is that when there is an organisation in place to take one's contribution, one that is accountable and held responsible for its work, then we feel comfortable. In many ways it motivates us to give further contributions when necessary.

I regard today's debate as a good news story. Many of us have to sit through all the different debates in the House and listen to the topical issues that arise on the Order of Business. It takes great strength of character to overcome the sense of negativity and defeatism which comes out of those debates, although I do not suggest they should not take place - of course they must. However, this is a good news story, because legislation would not have been needed in 2009 if it were not for the proliferation that had taken place in the charities sector. One certainly could not point a finger at 99% of them. It only takes one, however, to dilute the real charitable work in this country. The public are made aware of this when some issue or other occurs. I am not thinking of any particular organisation or incident but when one hears something negative it makes one pause a little in regard to the contributions one makes. Such cases are few and far between, but are most unfair to the vast majority of charities that do their work in the right spirit and with a sense of professionalism, accountability and responsibility. It is most unfair when anybody detracts or distracts from that work. That was the basis of the legislation, which may have sent a kind of ripple through the entire sector - such was the feeling I got at the time. Having taken part in the debate when the legislation was introduced, I did not believe there was any need for alarm bells, because I knew that one had to study each section of the legislation and look at it in its entirety in order to see that ultimately it would help the charity sector in this country.

It is important that another message goes along with this legislation, namely, that the State values the work being done by the charity sector. I am always amazed at the work being done by charitable organisations outside the country and at what they have to go through and put up with. When the former President, Mary Robinson, visited one of the stricken countries her emotion was overwhelming. At the same time, for the people going abroad who do that work on the ground all the time, not only is it emotionally draining, but there is also danger involved. Tonight, because the Labour Party Senators have tabled this motion, we are able to say to this sector that we appreciate its work and want to see its workers feeling comfortable and confident in regard to the involvement of the State. In addition to the legislation, which has its own aim of regulation, the State should take any opportunity it finds to make the work of those organisations easier and should give whatever support it can.

Catherine Noone (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Minister of State to the House. As outlined by previous speakers, the Charities Act 2009 is positive legislation. From speaking to people in charities and the various managers who came to meet me recently when investigating other matters, I am heartened to see that there is support for the legislation within the sector, which is welcome. I commend the Labour Party Senators for bringing forward this motion and that the progression of this legislation is continuing to get attention both in this Chamber and in the media. It is important legislation which I hope to see implemented in the near future.

One of the more important aspects of the Act, namely, the creation of the charities regulatory authority, is a vital step and I hope it will be established soon. The preparatory work has taken place in that regard and I hope the resources will be available soon to put it into practice. In 2011, most of the Act, including the establishment of the authority, had to be deferred as a consequence of the perceived need for staffing and financial resources which were not available. At meetings I have had with various charities and organisations the importance of the establishment of the authority is reiterated constantly and it is something of which we must be mindful

A related aside is the recent closing down of the Irish Nonprofits Knowledge Exchange, INKEx. It provided a useful function as an over-arching body which produced data in the charitable sector. I was sorry to see that service having to shut its doors this year and I hope a similar service will take its place as it serves a useful function.

Another important aspect of the legislation is the reserve power in the Charities Act regarding the Minister for Justice and Equality having the capacity to introduce statutory regulations relating to the manner and conducting of fund-raising. That is absolutely necessary. I have spoken on numerous occasions both in this House and in the media on the issue of on-street fund-raising or "chugging", as it is informally known. Many jurisdictions are now bringing in binding rules of governance for that practice. For those Members who are not aware of "chugging", it refers to the people who locate themselves sometimes on four different corners of the same street where one cannot avoid them. They want people to sign up to direct debits. Many jurisdictions are bringing in binding rules to govern that practice such as a limit on the number of people engaging in the practice on a particular street or in a particular town, a limit on the number of steps they can follow somebody and such other measures.

While I am aware that the guiding principles for charitable fund-raising state that the charity will take care not to cause unreasonable nuisance or disruption in its fund-raising efforts, to date the voluntary code of conduct has not been particularly effective. In private briefings with a number of other charities it is clear they believe they are being tarnished by association, and they are seeking a level playing field with clear rules and established boundaries for all.

While aggressive fund-raising on streets can provide a short-term financial hit, it can also provoke brand damage in the long term, as some charities are now seeing, with noted decreases in the number of hours being put in by volunteers in instances where they are also paid as street fund-raisers. In terms of the rationale, why should people stay on the street with a bucket trying to raise money for a charity when they can raise money for the same charity and earn some money for themselves at the same time? The charities will need to put in place a level playing field in that regard and it is something that should be examined.

I am supportive of this legislation for the reason my colleagues and I have outlined, namely, that it is necessary. I commend the Senators for bringing forward the motion and thank the Minister of State for her attendance.

Jillian van Turnhout (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Minister of State. I welcome the motion and I am supportive of the initiative taken by my colleagues. I agree with the sentiment but would go further and say there is an urgent need to implement the Charities Act to provide for regulation and supervision. I have a concern about the words "resources permit" in the motion because I believe the Charities Act must be implemented in full. I had a genuine reservation about the tenor of the press release Senator Whelan published last week but I note his words earlier in that regard.

I must be frank with the Minister. The delay in the implementation of the Charities Act is not on the side of the charities; it is on the side of this and the previous Government. When the Charities Act was being written, developed and eventually came into place in 2009, I was working in a charity and we, like many other charities I know, undertook a dedicated review of the way we operated. We took legal advice. We amended our memorandum of understanding and articles of association. My heart was broken trying to ensure we fulfilled the requirements in the Charities Act. We examined our financial accounting and our reporting to ensure we fully complied with the Charities Act. We examined our governance structure. We made sure that we were ready for the Charities Act. That was done at a cost to the organisation in terms of time, money and resources, which we were happy to bear for better regulation of the sector. The work we did was replicated by many organisations in anticipation of the Act coming into effect.

The motion refers to "resources permit". I would argue that the delay in implementing the Act is costing the taxpayer money. We are all aware there are organisations on the charities lists availing of charitable tax exemptions which are not operating as what we would deem to be charities under the Charities Act. Proper and effective regulation will see a number of organisations removed from that list and liable to paying tax. In that sense implementation of the Act will pay for itself.

In addition, in the absence of the full implementation of the regulatory provisions in the Act, many charities are being forced to divert their often scarce resources away from front-line service provision. For example, thousands of small charities are forced to incorporate as companies limited by guarantee because there is no alternative source of regulatory scrutiny to satisfy funders' requirements. It is actually costing organisations not to have the Charities Act in place.
The Irish Times recently reported that in the most recent year for which data were available from the now, regrettably, defunct Irish non-profits database - it is a shame that is not in place - 8,000 Irish non-profit companies with public benefit purposes had spent almost €17 million on audit fees alone. For the very smallest of these, where total annual revenue was less than €50,000, this amounted to an average cost of about €1,200, which is more than 7% of their annual turnover.

I am a staunch supporter of disclosure, transparency and accountability across all sectors. I am also concerned when I hear reports about high salaries, commissions and high administration costs in some charities but it is vital - I urge caution to my colleagues - that we do not tar the entire charity sector with the same brush. I have worked in and with many charities whose staff work for modest salaries and others that operate with staff, as they are called, but who are 100% voluntary; they do not receive any payments. I am still involved with a number of charities - I assure my colleagues it is all on a pro bono basis - as are many citizens across this country.

Furthermore, not all of the 7,800 listed charities receive State funding. Some receive none while others, and this particularly irks me, receive multiple funding lines across a number of Departments. That must be examined. Currently, the Government cannot provide one list showing the total amount that goes from the State to an individual charity. To do that one must go through every Department’s and agency's funding schemes. How do we know if the State is funding the same organisation to do the same thing through multiple Departments? Where is the governance?

We are all aware of the decision taken by Barnardos last month to suspend its operations and put its staff on one week’s unpaid leave as a cost cutting measure to ensure it could continue to provide essential services for vulnerable children and families. That is because the fund-raising capacity and environment for many charities is at its most difficult. We have had cumulative cuts for organisations. We can all make small cuts in life but when one has to do it year after year, it gets very tough, and Barnardos is not on its own. These cost cutting measures are being replicated across many charitable organisations.

On some occasions staff in the children's sector have, at their own expense, taken up to two months unpaid leave in order to ensure front-line services are protected. I could provide examples of staff in several organisations who have done this.

It would be wholly inappropriate if we failed to mention the outstanding work being done by charities. I have worked with many organisations and I am of the view that the delay in fully implementing the Charities Act is costing the State money and has the potential to damage the reputation of charities which are operating effectively and have sound governance measures in place. I thank those organisations - Dóchas, The Wheel and the ICTR - which are making great efforts to promote the work of governance within charities. I thank our Labour Party colleagues for tabling the motion. However, greater urgency is required.

Paschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I call Senator Barrett.

Feargal Quinn (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Senator Barrett is being very kind by allowing me to contribute to the debate in his stead.

I am extremely glad this motion has been tabled because it again draws attention to the need to implement the Charities Act 2009 in full, if only to ensure the charity sector will be regulated more efficiently and to close some of the loopholes. Transparency in charities can help to increase much-needed revenue. It seems Ireland is almost unique in not having a regulator to oversee activities in the charity sector. In view of the fact that the State gives so much money to charities, there is scope for Departments to play a greater role in the auditing of their accounts.

I take the opportunity to apologise to the Minister of State. I was so busy indicating I would be contributing in Senator Barrett's place that I forgot to welcome her.

Sean Barrett (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We both welcome the Minister of State.

Feargal Quinn (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Departments should also consider charities from a business-oriented perspective in order to analyse their efficiency in reaching their targets. We need to know the impact of a charity's work. In other countries the Internet is widely used to better inform consumers. The website run by the non-profit organisation Charity Navigator evaluates charities in the United States and rates them on a zero to four star basis. A similar system should be in operation in this country because it would provide an in-depth analysis for the customer, namely, the person who is donating.

I wish to comment on one charity with which I was personally involved and which is very close to Ireland. The said charity was the subject of debate in the House and I tabled an amendment in respect of it. My amendment was accepted and this led to the relevant Bill being returned to the Lower House. The Bill in question which related to the George Mitchell scholarship was passed by the Dáil and brought before this House, including a reference to money to be spent in the State. However, George Mitchell scholarships are awarded to US students who wish to come to Ireland to study courses relating to peace in many cases. Under the terms of the legislation to which I refer, these students would not have been covered if their studies took them north of the Border. I argued with the then Minister who informed me that there was a problem. However, my amendment was accepted on Report Stage and the Bill was subsequently returned to the Lower House.

I am enthusiastically in favour of the charity involved in this regard, the US-Ireland Alliance, but I was stunned when Charity Navigator gave it a one star rating. Overall, it was awarded 39.9 points out of a possible 70. In terms of accountability and transparency, it was awarded 30 points out of a total of 70. Charity Navigator also states audited financial accounts prepared by an independent accountant were not provided by the charity. In addition, no key staff of the US-Ireland Alliance are listed on the charity's website. For the financial year 2012, it received almost $3 million in revenue. The charity has expenses of approximately $1 million and net assets of over $7 million. Over 17% of the organisation's expenses goes towards paying the salary of its CEO. I do not want to go off topic, but this is an organisation which sends just 12 American students to Ireland every year to study. It is very easy for the customer to analyse whether this is value for money. A similar organisation, the Asia Foundation in California, received a four-star rating from Charity Navigator. I would be interested in obtaining the Minister of State's views on whether she is of the view that the US-Ireland Alliance offers value for money. Perhaps other Members might examine this and similar cases.

In the context of the salaries of CEOs, there is further murkiness. A report in June indicated that four charities which shared millions of euro in State funding each year had refused to reveal how much their chief executives were paid. Senator Jillian van Turnhout highlighted this fact. While greater transparency will, I hope, mean more donations in the long term, some charities must move away from the murkiness that surrounds them.

A website in the United States, DonorsChoose.org, allows people to donate to projects in American schools, which is extremely interesting. The organisation in question collects proposals from teachers and makes them available to public schools through its website. Individual donors can then select projects and contribute as much as they can afford to them. DonorsChoose.org then purchases necessary supplies and ships them directly to the schools. All donors receive photographs of the project and a letter from the teacher. Donors who contribute $50 or more to a project also receive a package of hand-written thank you notes from the students involved. This is a smashing idea, particularly as it is imaginative. Websites such as DonorsChoose.org are thriving because they provide charitable donors with information on the use to which every cent they receive is put. The establishment of a similar, Government-run, website in this country would be a step in the right direction. Without transparency, charities here are placing themselves at a real disadvantage.

From the perspective of the private sector, would it be possible for the Government to give further encouragement to businesses to donate to charities? Working with charities can bring benefits which businesses may not have contemplated. When I was involved in the supermarket business, we discovered that customers much preferred bread which was only a couple of hours old. We took two steps, namely, putting in place little clocks on the shelves to show how old our bread was and making the decision not to sell bread that was over four hours old. Our accountants went berserk because each night we were obliged to give any bread that was over four hours old to various charities. However, our customers were extremely happy because they could only buy very fresh bread. In addition, we did very well because we sold much more bread. The charities also did very well. As our shops closed each night, representatives of local charities queued to obtain the bread to which I refer. That was a real win-win. Many similar opportunities could be seized by those who are minded to take them. I strongly encourage the Government to help to ensure retailers and restaurants are in a position to give away leftover food to local charities for distribution to those who are most in need. The Government could set an example by ensuring all leftover food from the canteens and restaurants in Departments, Government agencies, etc., is given to charity.

I am delighted that we have been given this opportunity to comment on the activities of charities. This area must have the cloak removed from it in order that we might see what is happening. Such a development would ensure charities, those who donate to them and the nation as a whole would benefit.

Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

On each occasion I come to the Seanad I am obliged to thank everyone for the welcome afforded to me. I am always reluctant to speak when I am here because the contributions of Senators are so good. I do not say this in a patronising way, it is merely that the debate which takes place in this Chamber is much more free-flowing in nature and not like the set-piece debates which occur in the Dáil. I always learn something new in the Seanad.

David Cullinane (Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Minister of State should vote "No" in the referendum to abolish the Seanad when it is held.

Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I have also found when I listen to debates here that it prompts me to come up with solutions. In that context, I have been considering a few things. I am here in the absence of the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Alan Shatter, who, unfortunately, cannot be present and has asked me to convey his apologies to the House.

As previous speakers stated, charitable organisations play a vital role in our society. There is probably no aspect of Irish society that is not enriched by the involvement of charities and the tireless efforts of those who work and volunteer on their behalf.

From the largest international charities working in developing countries around the world to the smallest community group where everyone knows each other, the spirit of charitable work and charitable giving is evident and worthy of support.

The Charities Act, enacted in 2009, was underpinned by an understanding of the vital role played by charities and a desire to support them in their work. A fundamental objective of the Act is to enhance public trust and confidence in charities and increase transparency in the sector. Given that many charities receive a portion of their income from public donations, the issue of public trust is of crucial importance to them. The provisions of the Act are intended to ensure greater accountability and protect against abuse of charitable status and fraud. In this way, the trust placed by members of the public in the charities they support can be protected. When Ireland is assessed on the basis of international comparisons, it is invariably shown, as Senator Feargal Quinn observed, that Irish people contribute more per head than their counterparts in other countries.

Since the enactment of the legislation, five sections of the Act have been fully commenced and a sixth partially commenced. This has been done by way of two separate commencement orders, namely, SI 284 of 2009 and SI 315 of 2010. These orders were primarily technical in nature, with their substantive provisions relating to regulation of the sale of mass cards and the allocation of powers to the courts to grant relief to charity trustees from personal liability for breach of trust in certain circumstances. The key provisions of the Act, to put in place a new regulatory framework for the charitable sector, have yet to be commenced. These provisions are linked to the establishment of a new independent charities regulatory authority, as provided for the under the Act. Because the legislation vests the powers to regulate charities in the new authority, it is not possible to commence further sections of the Act until that authority is set up.

The Minister for Justice and Equality assumed responsibility for policy relating to the regulation of charities in May of last year, following the reorganisation of Departments. Shortly thereafter, in the context of the urgent need to reduce Government spending and restore stability to the public finances in line with the EU-IMF programme, all Departments conducted a comprehensive review of expenditure aimed at identifying areas where savings could be achieved. In this context, the establishment of a charities regulatory authority was deferred, with the Minister for Justice and Equality undertaking to examine how progress might be made towards the objectives of the Charities Act in light of the changed circumstances since its passage.

As the Minister made clear at the time the deferral was announced last November, the decision to defer the full implementation of the Charities Act was taken for budgetary reasons. It did not indicate a change in Government policy with regard to the fundamental objectives of the legislation, including the desire to provide for better regulation of charitable organisations. In light of this, the Department of Justice and Equality is examining how the objectives of the Act can be progressed in the current circumstances. The charities sector is engaging with the Minister to find a resolution to this difficulty. The Minister intends to continue this consultation process in the coming months and looks forward to the informed engagement of the Seanad as part of that. It is rarely a quick or simple matter to go from the passage of legislation establishing a new statutory agency to the point where that body is fully established and exercising its functions in line with its parent legislation. Nevertheless, it was not envisaged that there would be such a lengthy delay in the establishment of the charities regulator. The Minister accepts that this is a source of concern to many in the charities sector and shares their eagerness to see the matter progressed in line with available resources.

It is important to remind the House that not everything depends on having a dedicated charities regulator. In fact, there is already a broad range of regulatory oversight measures that can apply to charities. Many, for example, are already subject to scrutiny by various State bodies. Moreover, large numbers of charities receive significant levels of Government funding through grants, contracts for service delivery and so on. As such, they are subject to the oversight of the relevant grant-making or contracting Departments and agencies in regard to how they use and account for these public funds and, where appropriate, to the Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General. The Revenue Commissioners have granted charitable tax exemptions to almost 8,000 charities and have significant powers to ensure they are compliant with tax law. A full list of these charities is available to the public at revenue.ie.

Many charities are companies limited by guarantee and, as such, are also subject to the provisions of company law and are generally required to provide certain information to the Companies Registration Office under the Companies Acts. This information can then be accessed by the public. Such charities are also potentially subject to scrutiny by the Office of the Director of Corporate Enforcement. Charities that take the form of a trust are subject to the provisions of trust law. In addition, any business entity is subject to general criminal and fraud legislation.

In common with the Members who have put forward this motion today, I look forward to the full implementation of the Charities Act and the dedicated regulatory framework it will provide. However, it is important to recognise, as I have outlined, that the charities sector is at present far from unregulated. To suggest otherwise would be misleading and would fail to acknowledge the value of the effort invested by many charities in meeting existing regulatory obligations. The motion before the House this evening not only points to the benefits of statutory regulation of charities of the type provided for in the Charities Act but also recognises the role and responsibility of charitable organisations themselves in enhancing the transparency and accountability of their sector. Voluntary, sector-driven approaches to better practice are an essential part of a strong and accountable charity sector. Statutory regulation is a complement to this, not an alternative. As progress is made on the implementation of the Charities Act, the Government hopes to see a continued drive from within the charities sector itself for improvements in transparency and accountability where necessary.

The motion refers to levels of remuneration and administrative costs, an issue that is of genuine concern for many people who make donations to charities. Greater transparency in this regard has real potential to incentivise best practice among charities and, in so doing, enhance the public's trust in them. Fund-raising is another area in which sector-driven efforts to encourage best practice can play an important part, and the Government continues to support certain initiatives in this area. These include the promotion of a statement of guiding principles for charitable fund-raising which were developed by the charities sector itself under the leadership of the voluntary charity umbrella body, the Irish Charities Tax Research Group. These guiding principles, at the core of which are respect, honesty and openness, aim to provide a set of agreed and accessible standards for charitable fund-raising strategies and projects. The Department of Justice and Equality is providing grant support for this initiative. The Minister has encouraged all charities to sign up and adhere to these principles, which represent a simple yet demonstrable commitment on the part of charities to better accountability and transparency. To date, however, only modest numbers of charities have formally signed up to the principles, which were launched in March 2011. The Department continues to support this initiative with the aim of increasing the share of fund-raising which conforms to the principles. However, such an initiative requires the support and participation of charities themselves in order tobe meaningful and the Minister urges all charities that carry out fund-raising to sign up. Organisations wishing to find out more should visit ictr.ie.

As I outlined, the deferral of the establishment of a charities regulatory authority is a budgetary and not a policy matter. I assure the House that the decision to defer statutory regulation was not taken lightly. Despite the changed circumstances with respect to the public finances and the wider economy, it remains Government policy that the relevant legislation will be fully commenced and a charities regulatory authority established in due course and in such a way as available resources permit. During 2012, therefore, the Department of Justice and Equality has kept the decision to defer under review in the context of resource allocations, and has examined ways of making progress towards the objectives of the Charities Act.

This process is ongoing and the Minister for Justice and Equality intends to consult on options in the coming months. The charities sector is vibrant, diverse, innovative and enriched by the goodwill and confidence of its members and of the public at large. It is in all our interests to keep it so. The Government is determined to work to this goal in partnership with the charities sector. I commend the motion to the House.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I wish to share time with Senator Moloney.

Paschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Is that agreed? Agreed.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Kathleen Lynch, to the House. I know she is particularly conscious of the value to society of the charities and non-governmental organisation sectors. I commend my colleagues, Senators Whelan and Higgins, on whose initiative we have put forward this motion. I also welcome the stakeholders in the Visitors Gallery, Mr. Hans Zomer of Dóchas, the former Senator, Ms Kathleen O’Meara of the Irish Cancer Society, Ms Patricia Quinn of the Irish Nonprofits Knowledge Exchange and others.

We bring forward this motion in the spirit of wishing to be constructive and I am delighted it has cross-party support. All Members are agreed on the merits of the full commencement of the Charities Act 2009 and we are all grateful to the Minister of State for setting out the Government’s commitment to its full commencement. As she made clear, as has the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Shatter, it is for budgetary rather than policy reasons that the full implementation of the Act has been deferred. They referred to the cost of the establishment of the new statutory authority envisaged which none of us can pretend is not a significant factor. We know the Government is committed to reducing numbers in the public sector and there is an embargo on recruitment. However, it would seem, as Senator Whelan has said, that it might be more cost-effective to introduce some form of statutory authority in this area through the transfer of existing public servants rather than recruiting new public service members. We believe it would save money in the long term and enhance the immense good work that charities do, as well as the public trust and confidence in them.

We know if the Act were fully commenced it would provide for the establishment of a charities regulatory authority, mandatory registration of charities and require them to make information on their finances available to the new authority and, therefore, to the public. It would allow for greater transparency and accountability in charities. The current position is that we have large numbers of charities of which approximately 8,000 are registered with Revenue and the Companies Registration Office as companies limited by guarantee.

This may only be a small portion of the not-for-profit sector. Trinity College’s Centre for Nonprofit Management has estimated there are approximately 24,000 non-profit organisations if one includes schools, trade unions, local Tidy Towns committees and so forth. Many of these smaller organisations will not be incorporated or have any corporate status. This is unsatisfactory, as is the fact that charities can be set up in several ways. The only effective State regulation is through Revenue when these organisations apply for charitable status, the CHY reference number. However, this means there is no ongoing monitoring that would be necessary to ensure greater transparency in the financial management of charities.

As other Members have said, I do not mean in any way to impugn the good work charities do. We must acknowledge, however, this sector employs large numbers of people and in which large amounts of money are involved. The Irish Nonprofits Knowledge Exchange found recently that non-profit organisations receive between €5.7 billion and €6 billion annually and may employ more than 100,000 people. I am grateful to Ms Patricia Quinn of the Irish Nonprofits Knowledge Exchange for pointing out the cost to the charities sector, and therefore society, of the lack of a uniform regulatory system, compliance with company requirements and so on.

As the Minister of State stated, it is not that charities are non-regulated as they are subject to regulation under the Companies Acts but they are regulated inappropriately and not sufficiently nor effectively. This is the point of this motion and we look forward to working with the Minister in future.

Marie Moloney (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

While I do not wish to repeat what other Members have stated, I extend my support to the commencement of all the provisions set out in the Charities Act 2009. Having been passed into law in February 2009, it is imperative that we wait no longer and that all aspects of the Act be put into practice so that proper regulation and accountability in the sector can be enforced. The charities sector needs to be more open and transparent while we need to protect our society against rogue charitable organisations undoing the great work of well run and well organised non-profit organisations. With full implementation, we will enhance public trust and confidence in charities which is so important as many charities have seen a marked decrease in monetary support for several years. The good, hard-working charities need to move on and concentrate on doing what they do best, namely, assisting and supporting so many people locally, nationally and internationally.

The workforce, as Senator Bacik said, is large, with the sector employing over 100,000 people, three quarters of whom are women, as well as involving over 560,000 volunteers. It needs to be protected, nurtured and supported. One way this can be done is by commencing the full regulations set out in the Charities Act. Non-profit organisations are a supplementary means of delivering a wide variety of public services in health, social services, education and emergency relief. They create an untold amount of public good in culture, recreation, social justice, civil and human rights. The sector deserves full commencement of the Charities Act 2009 so that the public’s trust can be maintained. The public wants the full commencement of the Act because of the increased transparency and accountability it would bring. I commend all the charities that are carrying out such good work and are of a significant benefit to society.

David Cullinane (Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Minister of State to the House and commend the Labour Party Members for tabling this motion. As other Members have stated, we all want to put on record our appreciation and recognition of the good work carried out by charities in all our communities across the State and across the island of the Ireland. The work is unquantifiable in monetary terms and it is often said that much of this community and voluntary work, such as the work done by carers, saves the State much money. We need to recognise the work done by this sector at every level.

I thank Mr. Ivan Cooper of The Wheel, the umbrella organisation for the charitable and non-profit sectors, for kindly providing information on this issue which illustrates the significant contribution made by the charity sector. In 2009, there were at least 11,700 organisations employing over 100,000 people as well as involving over 560,000 volunteers and managing a turnover of €5.75 billion.

Sinn Féin has long supported the need to have charities registered. The 2009 Act, long promised and overdue, was widely welcomed by community and voluntary organisations when it was introduced. Until then the charities sector was largely unregulated. It is in the interest of charitable organisations to have proper regulation of the sector. The establishment of a charities regulatory authority is necessary as is the fact charities would be obliged to register. This is vital to ensure accountability and to protect against the abuse of tax-related exemptions granted to charities or fraud by those purporting to be charities. The sector itself also wants this.

Sinn Féin would amend the Charities Act to provide for the recognition of human rights promotion as a charitable activity. The Act was passed into law in February 2009 but it still has not been brought fully into effect. Earlier in the year my colleague in the Lower House, Deputy Pádraig Mac Lochlainn, queried why the legislation has not yet been implemented.

Those sections that require charities to provide financial information to a new charities regulatory authority, which will, in turn, make such information available to the public, have not yet been commenced. This motion arises from the view of the Minister, Deputy Shatter, that it is not possible to proceed with the full implementation of the Act for financial reasons and that it should be deferred. This is deeply regrettable. I commend the Labour Party Senators for introducing this motion. I call on the Government to implement this legislation in full.

The full regulation of charities will bring a high level of accountability and transparency to all aspects of the work of charities, including their advocacy work. This is needed by the charitable and non-profit sector. Mr. Ivan Cooper has highlighted the financial difficulties currently being faced by many charities. Almost 60% of charitable organisations have experienced a decrease in income over the past three years. In 60% of those cases, there has been a decrease in income of between 11% and 25%. I hope the Minister of State will agree this is very significant. Many organisations are not fully aware of the ramifications of the Charities Act 2009. Some 20% of non-profitable organisations continue to be unaware of the existence of that legislation. Just 60% of those organisations that are aware of it are prepared for its requirements. The awareness of the need to prepare a statement of guiding principles for fundraising is split three ways, with 37.2% of organisations indicating that they are aware of it and 32.6% not aware of it. The remaining 30% of organisations do not raise funds directly from the public. These organisations are held in high esteem by us all and by the community. If they are not properly regulated, that trust will be undermined. A small minority may abuse this system. We owe it to the charity sector not to allow this to happen and to regulate to that effect.

I will conclude by making a few brief remarks about charity. We all accept that charity is necessary. We all accept that charities do good work. Many charitable organisations would make the point that as a consequence of the policies that are currently being pursued in this country, they are having to fill gaps in order to meet the social and economic needs of many citizens. The Society of St. Vincent de Paul, for example, helps some of the poorest people in our society, including those who do not receive the supports from the State that many of us believe they should get. While it is important to have a strong charity sector and for people to make private contributions, it is critically important that charities are not having to fill gaps in the provision of services needed by people that should be filled by the State. It needs to be clearly and robustly stated that the test of any republic is how it treats its citizens, including its most vulnerable citizens. The key responsibility of any state is to vindicate the rights of its citizens. That should be what a government and a state do. We know that the charity sector has stepped into the vanguard by providing services in cases where rights are not being vindicated. We are familiar with the significant work they do. Obviously, we want to limit the need for people to avail of charity in the first place. That cannot happen in the absence of good social planning and good economic policies, such as progressive taxation. It is critically important that the charity sector is supported. It will always play an important role in society, regardless of the economic model being implemented by the Government of the day. For that reason, it needs to be properly regulated. That is why we support the Private Members' Bill that has been tabled.

Caít Keane (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Minister of State and the visitors to the House. I commend those who have proposed this important motion. It is important for us to continue to implement the Charities Act 2009. I commend the previous Government for introducing it. As the Minister of State said, however, just five sections of it have been activated. Much more of the Act needs to be implemented. The aim of the Act is to achieve a public benefit. As we know, the charitable sector has an important role to play in our society. The 2009 Act defines a "charitable purpose" as "the prevention or relief of poverty or economic hardship" or "the advancement of education". The thousands of different charitable groups in this country are doing a multitude of works. One of the objectives of the 2009 Act is to enhance "public trust and confidence" in charities. One of the ways of accomplishing this objective is to increase transparency and accountability in the sector.

As the Minister of State said, certain sections of the 2009 Act have not been commenced. The essential point, as she noted, is the resource implications of further advancements in this regard. It is like the chicken and the egg. The regulations said that a regulatory authority should be established; and the Act cannot be implemented without such an authority being established. The way the Act was drawn up means we have to find a way of doing much of the work that should be done, in line with the spirit of the Act, in the absence of a regulatory authority. I ask the Minister of State to consider how that might be done. As she said, it is a deferral rather than a cancellation. How long will it be deferred for? We should be doing something in the meantime. This deferral should not obscure the pivotal role of the charity sector itself in increasing transparency and accountability. It is self-evident that the remuneration packages should be made public, for example.

There is clear potential for voluntary codes to play a constructive role in advancing transparency and accountability. I know the voluntary sector is very active in providing that transparency voluntarily. A statement of guiding principles for charitable fund-raising has been developed by the Irish Charities Tax Research group. The Minister of State should examine how the existing voluntary code of principles and practices can be enhanced. Perhaps it could be amended to make it more user-friendly and to entice more charities to sign up to it. There might be a case for introducing regulations or legislation to make more charities register with the voluntary guiding principles. Perhaps the provision of funding could depend on registration with the voluntary guiding principles. That might be a tiny step forward. The Act provides a comprehensive statutory regulatory framework for Irish charities. The commendable drafting of the original Bill and passage of the eventual Act coincided with a time of extraordinary growth in the economy. We do not have the economy we had at that time. I suppose I understand why the Minister of State has suggested we need to cut our cloth according to size. Given that there are two ways to skin a cat, however, perhaps we should consider strengthening the voluntary element of the regime in the meantime.

I do not know if the Senators who proposed the motion have costed the whole thing. I would not expect them to have done so because as Senators, we do not have the requisite research facilities. The Department should examine what it would cost. It might not cost that much. The establishment of another quango - the regulatory body - might concern some people. As Senator Bacik said, however, it might be possible for staff from other bodies to be transferred to the regulatory body to allow it to do its work. The dedicated regulation of Irish charities would be a welcome development. Charities provide many important services. There is a huge social dividend from what is done by Irish charities and their thousands of volunteers. At a time when there is a great deal of discussion on the remuneration that is paid to people, we should be commending the charities' volunteers who give so generously of their time. I have come across many of them during my time in public life. I was a director of a charity - the South Dublin Pakistan Earthquake Appeal - that is now closed down. It is not easy to set up a charity. One has to go through hoops in order to meet the regulations laid down by the registration office, etc. I thank Mr. John Ellis and Ms Geraldine Brogan who worked tirelessly on registration and compliance. Many people err on the side of caution by going over and above what they have to do to comply with the Act. The Act has been implemented in full by many charities that are not required to do so. We have to examine those charities that have not done so.

I ask the Minister of State to reflect on the governance of the whole charitable sector in Ireland, which is an issue that was raised by Senator Quinn. There is a great deal of duplication of charitable exercises in this country. Perhaps people are running around the wheel backwards and meeting each other coming forward. They might be doing the same thing without doing it in the most effective and efficient way. Barnardos, which is a great organisation, had to shut down for a week because of a funding shortfall. Are there other charities that might have to do the same thing? We should not think that charities are not worthwhile. They are significant. We should consider how we can eliminate duplication in cases where seven, eight or nine charities are doing the same thing. Each of them has to furnish its office and employ its staff. I accept that the good people in question are committed and I appreciate that each charity was established for a specific reason. As the Cathaoirleach is looking at me, I will conclude by saying that the charitable sector is close to my heart. Those involved in it have to be commended for the work they are doing, much of which is voluntary.

Denis Landy (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Minister of State to the House and hope she enjoyed her summer break. I would also like to welcome our guests.

As other speakers have said, charitable organisations do fantastic work in this country and have been doing so for years. We have all bought into the concept of charity work. Personally, I have been involved in various organisations since I was a child. Unlike Senator Whelan, I even had my head shaved for charity on one occasion. There is anecdotal evidence, however, that charities are setting up overnight, functioning for very short periods of time and disappearing again without any accountability or governance.

I wish to focus on the area of voluntary housing and its charitable status. Currently there are 700 voluntary housing bodies in this country which have, so far, built 25,000 housing units. These bodies have overseen housing developments of between 20 and 3,000 units. In 2012, funding for capital schemes was €70.7 million, which is a serious amount of money in one year. The figures for annual rental from the tenants of these voluntary housing units are not known. That is an area of governance that concerns me greatly.

Many of these organisations are limited companies with charitable status but we need to put a regulatory framework in place for this sector. Any regulation is voluntary. This situation must be improved. In March this year, Deputy Bernard Durkan raised the issue of governance with the Minister of State at the Department of Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Jan O'Sullivan, in the Lower House. Her response on that occasion was that efforts were afoot to develop key governance and management structures to facilitate the expansion of the remit of these organisations and to provide independent scrutiny and validation of such bodies and their competences.

A voluntary survey was carried out in 2009 of all of the voluntary housing bodies in the country for the purpose of examining the governance structures that were in place at the time but, unfortunately, only 18% of the organisations participated. That survey showed that there were high levels of corporate governance in relation to meeting procedures, the appointment of directors, the preparation of accounts and so forth. However, there was also evidence, in some cases, of infrequent meetings and poor information flow to the directors and trustees which did not assist them in making proper decisions within the organisations. Obviously, there is great scope for supervision of this sector in terms of good governance and so forth.

As outlined by previous speakers, the implementation of the legislation that was enacted originally by a Fianna Fáil Government in 2009 is essential. Senator Whelan has suggested that perhaps we are being penny-wise and pound-foolish in this instance. I fully support that view. There has been much negative commentary in some quarters about the Croke Park agreement but that agreement has been positive on a number of fronts. It has shown the ability of public sector workers to work more efficiently with fewer people, to save money, to transfer from one section to another and so forth. The agreement has shown that many things can be done despite the massive decrease in the number of public sector staff. Surely it would not be beyond the scope of the current Government to find some mechanism within the Croke Park agreement to free up staff in order to set up the regulatory body that is necessary to ensure the implementation of the legislation.

I commend my colleagues, Senators Higgins and Whelan, for initiating this motion within the Labour Party group and I am happy to support it fully. I have a specific interest in the voluntary housing sector and am grateful for the opportunity to discuss it here. I hope the Minister of State will bring the message from here to the line Minister involved that we want to see the legislation implemented as soon as possible.

Jimmy Harte (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Minister of State and those in the Visitors Gallery. I also commend my colleagues, Senators Higgins and Whelan, for proposing this motion, which has been soundly supported by all Members of the House.

In an ideal world, charities would not exist but in almost every town and village throughout the world, there is a small charity set up for the purpose of helping people who are less well off. As well as that, there is a social side to it for those communities who get together and do something for themselves. I recently read that in the last 30 years the London Marathon had raised over £500 million and possibly more, given that some funds were not recorded. There is a two-way street there whereby people get involved in walking or jogging and participate in a community event while also delivering funding to various charitable organisations. In an ideal world, as I have said, none of us would need to help charities, but we do. When people donate to charities they feel it is a more direct way of helping than, for example, paying more tax in the community and that tax being directed to various charities.

People involved in charities know how difficult it is to raise money in a recession. As a director of the Simon Community in the north west, I learned how difficult it is to set up a charity. I did not realise how long it took for a charity like Simon to set up in an area, between regulation, setting up a company and so forth. Any money collected in a charity is well spent. There are so many small charities throughout the country that are running very hard to stand still. In these difficult economic times they are suffering much more than others.

Senator Noone said she was not in favour of the chuggers but we are all chuggers in this House. We could be called political chuggers. I have no problem with the chuggers on the street because when I look at them I think they could be my son or my daughter and they are working hard to collect money, mostly through the setting up of direct debits. Generally they are friendly and they are doing a job that nobody else wants to do. If they get paid for it, good luck to them because if they convince somebody to set up a direct debit, the money is much easier to collect than going to a donor's door every year. I would not criticise chuggers. Sometimes they might get in my way but what they do is no worse than knocking on doors during a general election campaign. In fact, we would be more badly received than the chuggers. Chuggers should keep going and work as hard as they can. It is not an easy job to collect money or to look for votes.

Lately I have noticed - I am sure others have too - charity organisations or sports clubs with collection buckets at traffic lights or roundabouts. I have no problem with that because those involved are doing it in good faith. However, in other countries, the box or receptacle for the money is actually a sealed pouch where the money goes in and is locked and can only be opened by the charities. It is a massive temptation to have buckets of money floating around anywhere, whether coins or notes. I tend to empty my pockets of change into the buckets and am delighted to do it. However, I am wary of the temptation that such collection methods represent. It was in France or Germany that I saw the sealed receptacles which would make people feel more secure about giving money. I am sure the charities also felt more secure because they knew that the people donating their money could be assured that their money was going directly to the charity. That option should be considered here.

The thrust of the motion is that we must get more regulation. Senator Whelan referred to the fact that there are 7,000 registered charities in this country, which is a very large number. I do not know how many are operating profitably.

We do not want to reach a point at which charities are funding themselves and the money does not leave the charities as they may be trying to secure jobs that have been set up. All the money collected should go to the cause specified on the box or ticket. At the same time, there is a realistic expectation that it costs money to collect efficiently. The more efficient the organisations that run charities the better, but we have to play our part in regulation. That the Act has not been implemented for budgetary reasons is not a good excuse and the charities we represent today are waiting for us to do the job. I look forward to hearing the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Alan Shatter, say when it will be implemented because it is important for all charities. As we are all in the political chugging game, I have no problem with charitable chuggers. Good luck to them.

John Whelan (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I do not want to over-egg the pudding or delay proceedings any longer than is needed. I appreciate the Minister of State had a long day in the other House. I am heartened at the nature of the discourse and debate and grateful for the positive and constructive contributions put forward by all sides of the House.

Lest there be confusion as to the reason we are here, I thank Ivan Cooper from The Wheel, Hans Zomer from Dóchas, John Gallagher and his colleague Sheila Nordon from ICTR, Kathleen O'Meara from the Irish Cancer Society and Patricia Quinn from the Irish Nonprofits Knowledge Exchange for their constructive contribution to the process and their constant efforts to have the regulatory authority put in place. The charity sector, the Seanad and the Minister are at one on this matter. We are preaching to the converted.

I am heartened by the intent of the response from the Minister of State, Deputy Kathleen Lynch, that a regulatory authority will be established and that we are only discussing the timeframe. We have made a persuasive case that there should be no undue delay. While it has been said that the delay is on cost grounds, I believe that is a false economy. If the Government says we cannot afford to establish the regulatory authority at this juncture, I suggest we cannot afford not to because the sector needs the authority to underpin its good faith and trust with the public.

I thank colleagues for their constructive contributions. The entire burden of establishing the regulatory authority and the regulator's office should not fall on the charitable sector, which is already hard-pressed to make ends meet, raise funds and provide services. It is in the State's interest to ensure we get the best value for money, and therein lies a solution. The regulatory authority could be co-funded, with the State playing its role - in the interests of the taxpayer and of ensuring value for money - by providing some resources to establish the authority. Perhaps the sector could put its best foot forward and through a levy or registration charge co-fund a cost-effective and cost-neutral regulatory authority. It is vital that the charitable and voluntary sector nurture and retain public trust and confidence, because if this is lost, as Senator Harte said, it would be difficult to restore and there would be a slippery slope to cynicism.

Senator Feargal Quinn mentioned the American website Charity Navigator, which states that under international best practice it is possible to achieve a level of administration and salary costs to the tune of 10% of the turnover of the organisation. That is the benchmark we should strive to achieve. In some instances, small as the organisation may be, there is evidence that the cost of administration is significantly higher, perhaps in excess of half of what the organisations spends. That is not acceptable.

I will go off-script to mention an issue that has occurred to me, for which I may not be thanked in some quarters. We make such a play, particularly in the Labour Party, of the need to separate church and State; it is high time political parties stopped conducting church-gate collections. It is hypocritical of them. They should leave that space, particularly at this time, to the charitable and voluntary sector. If one preaches separation of church and State one should practise it.

I thank the Minister of State for her constructive response. I thank my colleagues for their support and I am grateful for the constructive contributions from all sides of the House.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

When is it proposed to sit again?

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

At 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, 20 September 2012.