Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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The Order of Business is No. 1, Education (Amendment) Bill 2012 - Committee Stage, to commence at the conclusion of the Order of Business and conclude not later than 6.30 p.m.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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I wish to ask about the treaty on stability, co-ordination and governance in the EMU to which the Government has signed up. Some 25 of the 27 member states have signed up to it. Will the Leader afford time early next week for a debate on the treaty in this Chamber? A sufficient amount of time should be allocated to do so.

Will the Government commit to undertaking a public information campaign on what it has signed up to, even pending receipt of advice from the Attorney General? We understand the Taoiseach has said the treaty has formally been sent to the Attorney General for her advice, but I am certain that she and her office have been involved in giving advice up to now. It appears the Government does not want to hold a referendum. My position and that of my party is that we should bring the people along with these significant EU changes. We are and always have been a pro-Europe party and I do not envisage that changing but, at the very least, our people should be aware of what the Government has signed up to on their behalf. Will the Government consider holding a referendum on the matter regardless of the Attorney General's advice? The draft treaty places strict fiscal controls on Ireland and it is only right and proper that our citizens get an opportunity to know what the treaty contains and to have a say on it. Fianna Fáil will seek legal advice on the matter. It would be appropriate to seek an early debate on the treaty.

My party has circulated a motion, to be considered for cross-party support, calling on the Government to extend an official invitation to Pope Benedict XVI to visit Ireland in an official capacity this year. I ask that all Senators take the time to consider our motion and I hope that the House agrees to it.

Today and tomorrow, the Dáil will debate changes in respect of small, rural and minority-faith schools. Many Members on the Government side are most uncomfortable with these changes. At the very least, the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Quinn, should review this matter as he did in respect of DEIS schools. Months ago, I was one of the first to mention the fact that 25% of the schools to be affected were minority-faith schools. I have attended three meetings held by Church of Ireland schools that will lose teachers and permanent learning supports. Since it is not the Government's intention to discriminate against minorities in the Republic, it should reverse a decision that will have an astonishingly negative impact on small Gaeltacht, minority-faith and rural schools.

Next week, my party will use Private Members' time to address this matter, but Members on the Leader's side of the House have asked that time be afforded to the Minister, who will attend the Chamber this afternoon to address legislation, to discuss this important issue in a non-partisan manner. Many Government Members view the decision as a mistake. That is fine, but a problem should not be exacerbated by continuing with a failed policy that discriminates against rural communities and minority-faith schools.

Will the Leader allow time for a proper debate on this matter next week? Given that it was not the Government's intention to discriminate, now is the time to change its decision.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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Like Senator Darragh O'Brien, I welcome the fact that we now have a text for the intergovernmental treaty, the so-called fiscal compact. I agree that we should have a public information campaign on the treaty and I look forward to debating it in the House. We need to reserve our position on a referendum until we hear what the Attorney General has to say. There is only one reason to hold a referendum, namely, to amend the Constitution. If the Attorney General advises that the Constitution will not be affected, there is no requirement for a referendum. Deputy Calleary accepted that as a point of principle.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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It would pre-empt the decision of the Attorney General.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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I call for a debate on public procurement and professional fees. In the context of the forthcoming debate on the Legal Services Regulation Bill 2011, I am interested in the issue of the State's role in setting professional fees and the distribution of professional work. We must consider this issue in respect of other professionals as well as lawyers. I am conscious that the Bill envisages the creation of multidisciplinary partnerships. There is some concern that this might lead to the concentration of expertise in the hands of a few small firms, thereby indirectly creating monopolies. This is a cause for concern. For example, in the case of credit unions which are going into receivership - we had a high profile case in recent weeks - only a very few of the large accountancy firms seem to be getting that work from the State. This is despite the fact that the expertise to deal with these matters may be elsewhere. Moreover, there may be better value for money for the State in procuring accountancy services from smaller firms rather than always opting, by default, for one of the so-called big four. We have also seen the State confining its business to a couple of large solicitors' firms. We must have an open debate on this issue, which is about consumer protection.

I saw a newspaper report yesterday that a new Killarney-based GP practice is offering much lower consultation fees than those charged by its competitors. This is a sign of the lowering of professional fees we would hope to see across the different professions.

Jim D'Arcy (Fine Gael)
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A doctor came home one day to find the archbishop of Paris in bed with his wife. He took the archbishop's cassock-----

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

Jim D'Arcy (Fine Gael)
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Yes. The doctor put on the cassock, walked to the window and began blessing the people below in the square. The archbishop told him to come away from the window, for he looked ridiculous. The doctor replied that since the archbishop was performing his functions, he would perform the archbishop's. I refer to this anecdote in the context of an issue of social protection.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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Social protection or moral protection?

Jim D'Arcy (Fine Gael)
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Social protection. There has been little improvement in the time taken to process medical card applications since the centralisation of that function took place. We are told it should take 15 days to obtain a medical card if everything is in order. However, I have been contacted by many people who have experienced delays. Most recently, I heard of an application that was submitted in October, with everything in order, and resubmitted on 29 November following a request for further information. It was only after strong representations that this person's card was finally issued yesterday.

We were assured last week that ten additional staff members would be appointed to the central processing facility to cope with the volume of work. I am not blaming the Minister for Health for these delays; it is a question of staff shortages. We must ensure the most vulnerable in society receive their medical cards without undue delay.

Feargal Quinn (Independent)
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We live in a very competitive world. If we are to solve the serious problems facing this country, we will have to take action in those areas in which we are insufficiently competitive. Figures published in recent days by the World Bank show we are the tenth best country in which to do business. We may well feel proud of that, but the reality is that there are nine countries ahead of us. There are several areas in which we can take action to improve our competitiveness. For example, in this country it takes 13 days for start-up businesses to get up and running. In Singapore, which tops the list, it can be done in three days. When I visited Panama some years ago I was told that the objective was to make it possible to start a new business there in seven hours. While it has not achieved that target, on the basis of the World Bank figures, that is the type of target we should be setting ourselves.

I am impressed by the areas in which we have done quite well, including ease of paying taxes, resolving disputes and efficient regulation, the latter being rather unexpected. We are also working hard in regard to construction permits. On the other hand, we are only 62nd in terms of enforcing contracts, 81st in registering property and 90th when it comes to securing electricity supply to businesses. These are areas in which we can easily effect improvements. We must ensure that anyone who is considering opening a business will see Ireland as a place that is working hard to make itself an attractive prospect. I welcome the great news that Sky is to open a new call centre in Dublin with the creation of 800 jobs. This is a good example of what we can work towards. In this regard, the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Bruton, is working hard on ensuring we are the type of country that does not have in place regulations that serve no purpose. Let us ensure we continue in that direction.

In my experience as a Member of this House, our State organisations do not appear to have the same understanding of the importance of time and speed as does the business world.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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Hear, hear.

Feargal Quinn (Independent)
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Senators Bacik and O'Brien asked if there will be a need for a referendum on the fiscal compact. Whether or not one is required the decision in that regard needs to be made as quickly as possible and we need to ensure we get it right. I believe the objective in Europe is to create a Europe that is attractive to industry and for jobs. Let us ensure we work towards that with the same enthusiasm as other countries.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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Hear, hear.

John Whelan (Labour)
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I endorse Senator D'Arcy's comments in regard to the delay in the processing of medical cards, which is now taking weeks and months. The divergence between the official position and reality on the ground for people waiting for medical cards is unacceptable. This issue must be addressed.

I call on the Leader to arrange for a wide-ranging debate with the Minister for Justice and Equality on our immigration policy which is long overdue. It is a sensitive issue, one that provokes polarised opinion. However, this should not deter us from tackling it. Immigration without proper opportunity leads to isolation and ghettoisation of communities, which is not healthy for anyone. I am concerned about the farming out by the State and Department of Justice and Equality of the operation of asylum centres in which families and young children are incarcerated for years. I would like to know who inspects or monitors the operation of these centres. I have heard disturbing reports about the conditions in which more than 200 asylum seekers, many of them children, are currently being held. I speak in this regard of the former Montague hotel near Portlaoise, where I am told there is no heating, food is being rationed and often food which is past its sell by day is being served, which is disturbing.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Is the Senator calling for a debate on the matter?

John Whelan (Labour)
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Yes. I believe such debate is long overdue. I note from the legislative programme that the Government intends to reintroduce a redrafted immigration residence and protection Bill. It is long overdue. This policy has huge implications for our housing and education policy, our health services and on the manner in which we treat people who come here seeking help. I call on the Leader to facilitate a debate on this matter at an early stage.

David Cullinane (Sinn Fein)
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I call on the Leader to provide time for a debate on balanced regional development. I do so in the context of figures published a number of weeks ago by the IDA and printed in a number of today's national newspapers. These figures, which are a breakdown of the number of IDA companies located in each county, the number of IDA supported jobs in each county and the amount of grant-aid paid to IDA supported companies in each county, have caused consternation in some counties. The Border and south-eastern counties, which have suffered huge job losses, have been badly serviced by the IDA. If one examines the county-by-county figures, one will see that at the same time there has been a huge drop in the amount of funding available through grant aid to certain counties. Some of the figures are amazing. For example, Carlow went for two years without receiving any grant support. For four of the past five years, not one single cent in grant aid was given to companies in Kilkenny. In Waterford, the number of grants was halved and the amount in grant aid available was reduced as a result. We must ensure the enterprise agencies are delivering for all the regions. There is little point in having regional offices, developing regional policies and discussing regional development when the figures indicate that areas such as the south east and the Border counties are not receiving their fair share. I ask the Leader to make time available for a debate on balanced regional development and to request the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation to come before the House to take part in it. Let us ensure the enterprise agencies which are funded from taxpayers' money will give all areas a fair crack of the whip. The figures to which I refer clearly show that the south-east region and the Border counties have not received their fair share.

Martin Conway (Fine Gael)
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I commend the Taoiseach and his European colleagues for achieving agreement last night on a mechanism to deal with the euro crisis. I call on the Attorney General to burn the midnight oil to bring certainty and clarity to the question of whether a referendum will be required. Uncertainty is both unhelpful and destabilising. I do not know why the Attorney General cannot provide her opinion as a matter of urgency. I call on the Leader to impress on her the importance of this matter and ensure that whatever resources she requires will be made available to her in order that she might provide a considered opinion as soon as possible. The last thing we need is for a debate to take place during the next four to six weeks on whether a referendum is required. What is needed is a decision. Once that decision has been made, we will be in a position to move on and either campaign in a referendum or ensure the compact will be implemented as quickly as possible. What is required more than anything else is financial certainty as well as stability in order to ensure the economy can grow and that the Government can proceed with the important task of creating employment to bring to an end mass unemployment and the emigration being experienced.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I support the call made by Senator Darragh O'Brien, the Leader of the Opposition, for an early debate - certainly next week - on the Treaty on Stability, Co-ordination and Governance in the Economic and Monetary Union. It is vital that such a debate take place, particularly in this House which has control of the issues that can be discussed here. The Government is going to be reluctant to hold a referendum on the treaty. When in government, my party was obliged to deal with many referendums. It was a Fianna Fáil Government which brought about Ireland's membership of the European Union, then known as the European Economic Community, EEC, via a referendum. We also proudly supported the referendum on the Maastrict treaty and the two referendums on the Lisbon treaty. We were obliged to fight referendum campaigns on these matters because we wanted to consult the people who wish to be consulted on matters of this nature.

I predict that the Attorney General will recommend that a referendum should not be held and will instead suggest the introduction of a Bill to facilitate implementation of the new treaty. According to what I have heard from certain Ministers, the Office of the Attorney General provided step-by-step advice on the wording contained in the treaty, the preamble to which-----

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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Yes. In the preamble the term "permanent provisions, preferably constitutional" is used, but the treaty does not promote these as such. That is an enormous change. Two countries, namely, the Czech Republic and the United Kingdom, have opted out of the treaty, in which there is no provision that the European Parliament should, even on the basis of courtesy, be consulted. It merely states, "The President of the Euro Summit shall present a report to the European Parliament after each of the meetings of the Euro Summit".

Will the Leader make time available for an early debate on the matter? The final text of the treaty contains a number of considerable changes from what was proposed in earlier drafts.

There is nothing in the treaty about the Government's proposals to burn the bondholders or about the Labour Party's way rather than Frankfurt's way. Deputy Varadkar stated that he would not pay a cent more to Anglo Irish Bank bondholders.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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A question.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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The Government will run from the referendum. It is terrified of the Irish electorate after being in government for 12 months.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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You can have a debate another day. You must ask a question now.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I want to put a warning-----

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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You have a most unusual way of getting to a question.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I am making a point. We discussed this with the Tánaiste last Thursday week and we are familiar with what is in the draft proposals. The Government will have a tough fight on its hands. When Fianna Fáil makes its decision on the treaty debate it will be in the best interests of the Irish people. A referendum should be held.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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When will this Chamber have a debate on rural schools? I have requested it for the past two weeks. This evening and tomorrow the Dáil will have a comprehensive debate on a motion and on a Government amendment to a Private Members' motion on small primary schools. We are trying to be relevant to the lives of Irish people so let us debate it here in a reasoned way with the Minister. Small schools are under threat as are Gaelscoileanna and rural DEIS schools. We need to debate the impact of Government policy on our children's education and on our communities. It is more than likely the Minister will be here this afternoon to speak on the Education (Amendment) Bill but this will not allow for the debate that is needed. I am concerned because I have called for this debate for two weeks. I tabled two Adjournment matters last week but neither was taken. This is not right. Tomorrow evening a large protest will take place outside Leinster House. We are a responsible Government so let us act responsibly on this important issue. I look forward to hearing the Leader's reply.

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
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I wish the Leader to clarify something. He mentioned that the debate on Committee Stage of the Education (Amendment) Bill will conclude no later than 6.30 p.m. I hope we will have concluded it by then but if not I hope it is not the intention of the Government to use the guillotine. I take it that what the Leader meant is that we will see what happens.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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We will review it at that stage.

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
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I thank the Leader.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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I presume it will be well over by then, unless people pontificate.

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
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I was not jumping to conclusions but nonetheless it may prove to be a very interesting debate and quite a few amendments have been tabled.

I agree with my colleague, Senator Quinn, with regard to holding a referendum. Regarding this decision, "If it were done when 'tis done, then 'twere well It were done quickly". There is a need for speed because the longer this goes on the greater will be the perception that somehow politics is being played with this issue and that the Government is wondering whether it can secure the necessary support to pass it.

There must be a presumption in favour of consulting the people. I do not like to see reports of sources stating there is some confidence in Dublin that the pact may not necessitate a vote. It should not be a matter for exciting confidence or optimism that people feel we will not need a referendum on this. We should never devalue the idea of consulting the people in a referendum.

There is a difference between "the State may ratify" and "the State must ratify". We can contemplate a referendum being required by the terms agreed by the leaders of the various member states, which would require it to be written in stone to such a degree that our Constitution would need to mandate the Government to ratify the treaty and not deviate from it in future. I am not very comfortable with this idea, but it is something of a lesser order that the Government would nonetheless see fit to consult the people to ask whether it may ratify the treaty. There is always something very healthy about this. I am not saying we should have referenda just for the sake of holding them but these are serious issues. We are about to make a very big decision that will impact on our ability to structure our budgets and manage our financial affairs into the future. For that reason I hope for a speedy decision and for a presumption in favour of having a referendum.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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I ask the Leader to organise a debate on the treaty published yesterday. Unlike the Minister, Deputy Varadkar, I believe we should have a referendum. To quote him directly, he is not a fan of referendums and does not believe they are democratic. I have great time for the Minister but he might have to go back to political science class to learn that referendums are very democratic. In that regard he is in conflict with the Tánaiste, Deputy Eamon Gilmore, who said it is good for the people to be involved. If the people are to be involved a referendum should be held. We are aware that the Attorney General's office would have advised the Taoiseach and the negotiating team on all the drafts of the treaty in terms of trying to get wording removed to ensure there would not be a referendum. Far be it from me to educate anyone in this House on the provisions of the Constitution but the Constitution can be amended even if a Bill is not in conflict with it. This House has the power to petition the President that any Bill which contains a proposal of national importance be put before the people to get their assent. The Government Senators, and Deputies, would agree that this measure is of national importance and if they believe that, the will of the people should be sought to determine whether they are in favour of it. The fact that the Government is running away from it, as the statement from the Minister, Deputy Varadkar, clearly shows, is a bad sign for democracy here because if the people cannot be convinced by the Government that this is in Ireland's best interests, then it is not in Ireland's best interests. It is up to the Government to convince the people by weight of fact and not by the scare-mongering displayed on the six o'clock news yesterday to the effect that we will be kicked out of the eurozone. We know that is a lie. There is no provision for that-----

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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Those points can be made in the debate.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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Ministers cannot engage in scare-mongering or tell lies on national television. If they want the truth they must tell everybody what is in the treaty and not indulge in scare-mongering based on what it does not contain.

Catherine Noone (Fine Gael)
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I welcome the news today that 800 jobs are to be created by Sky in this constituency. It has been rare in recent years to hear of the creation of such a large number of jobs in one day. As well as expressing concern about job losses, we need to also acknowledge when there is an announcement of jobs to be created. This is a positive development. I congratulate Enterprise Ireland on bringing these jobs to Ireland. Sky announced the creation of 1,200 jobs between the UK and Ireland. It is a testament to the work of Enterprise Ireland and to how the country is doing that despite the difficulties we are experiencing, two thirds of those jobs are being created in Dublin.

The World Bank's global economy standing list today ranks Ireland as number ten of the countries in which it is friendly to do business. The top ten countries are the only ones released in the headlines and we are ranked among the top ten. That is something of which we should be proud and it is difficult to believe considering the difficulties we are experiencing. The list refers to the fact that we were experiencing difficulties and are under an EU programme but we are still ranked among the top ten business-friendly countries in the world. That is something we should acknowledge.

Paschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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I join the Senators, particularly those on this side of the House, who have called for a comprehensive debate on the wording of the new treaty when published. The people of Ireland are seeking leadership from the national Parliament and a debate on this significant initiative would be an opportunity to provide such leadership. I must disagree with a view that seems to be growing that an achievement was made yesterday in Europe when, from an Irish perspective, all that is being offered is further austerity and sanctions if we do not proceed down the road we are on with, as one commentator said, very little carrot but lots of stick. The people of Ireland are getting to a point where they cannot take any more austerity without some hope for the future. That hope lies in the negotiations that I understand from the media are going on between the Minister for Finance in particular and the Taoiseach who are attempting to extend the massive bill that has been left as the legacy of Anglo Irish Bank whereby the promissory notes could be extended like a mortgage for the next 30 or 40 years which would lessen their economic impact. Ultimately this is about our getting our deficit right. It is important to put on the record that when it became apparent in 2008 that our deficit was widening, it was the then Government, led by the then Taoiseach, Brian Cowen, who initiated the various severe budgets which have been inherited but are being followed by this Government because it had no choice. We must get our deficit down to the agreed level, otherwise, as a country, we will not be able to survive, pay our civil servants and retain our services.

This new treaty will impose further harsh measures on this country without any attempt to concede we are the best person in the class. We are not getting any credit for that other than newspaper headlines across Europe stating what a wonderful country we are to be battling against it. We seem to be treated differently when it comes to giving the concessions that we need. Unless we can get rid of the stranglehold of bank debt, we can continue along the austerity line and continue to reduce our deficit but we will still have it hanging over us, and that must be addressed by Europe. Europe wants our people to support the Government and to support Europe. I would question those who would argue that we do not support Europe when we do support it. I am as pro-European as anybody, but we must stand up for our rights. How long more are we going to be beaten down?

Caít Keane (Fine Gael)
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I ask the Leader of the House to invite the Minister for Health to come to the House to make a statement on the current status of the Commission on Assisted Human Reproduction. That body was commissioned in 2005 and its members comprised eminent people under the chairpersonship of Professor Dervilla Donnelly. The report of the commission contained 35 recommendations and it was presented to the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Health in 2005 or 2006. Since that, however, I have heard nothing about it. It is not satisfactory that there is no statutory regulation governing an activity that is happening in this country. There should be legislation. Indeed, the Minister at the time did say there was no statutory regulation in the area of assisted reproduction and that this was not satisfactory. In advance of the Government framing such a regulation, which it will refer to the Joint Committee on Health and Children, I ask that the Minister would come to the House and make a statement on assisted human reproduction, because the self-regulation that exists at the moment, under the Irish Medical Organisation, is not satisfactory. The Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Shatter, is currently removing self-regulation from solicitors, barristers and so on. The same should be done in the area of assisted reproduction. I request that the Minister be asked to come to the House and make a statement on this.

Labhrás Ó Murchú (Fianna Fail)
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One does not have to be prophetic to conclude from recent events that the EU is at a crossroads, and by extension Ireland is at a crossroads as well. There will be a temptation, in the interests of political expediency, to engage in posturing rather than to act at this time. It would be wrong and disingenuous, however, of any Member of the Oireachtas to play on the fears and suffering of the people at present. There is a particular time in the history of every nation when we should all act for the common good. We should be prepared to set party political interests to one side. We do that in wartime and in times of emergency. The precipice may be a distance away at present, but we need to stop and reflect. I hope there will be no political points-scoring at this time. I recall, when sitting on the other side of the House, that I praised Alan Dukes for the Tallaght strategy, which I thought was very patriotic. Now, sitting on this side of the House, I would adopt exactly the same role. It would be in the interests of this nation if we all decided to work towards a consensus on the treaty and what is before us. I do not think history will be kind to us, and I do not think the people who are suffering on the ground will be grateful, if we do not at this stage realise the seriousness of what is facing us.

I make an appeal, having been in this House for the best part of 14 years, that we all step back, as public representatives and engage in an honest, sincere and practical way on this matter. We can disagree on many other things, but we have an opportunity, if we stand together in a cohesive manner, to send a strong message to the people that we will give them honest, sincere and effective leadership and, at the same time, send a message abroad that we are united as a people and we will not be easily picked off by the big powers in Europe. I have no doubt that if we fragment politically on this issue, we will face a serious situation. I appeal to everyone on this issue. Let us try to work in a positive and cohesive manner for the good of all people on this island. I hope we will not be judged for having played politics with the lives of the people at this time.

Senators:

Hear, hear.

Paul Bradford (Fine Gael)
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I sincerely concur with what the last speaker said. He has set a challenge to all of us to which I hope we can rise.

I have heard some of my colleagues talk about the possibility or otherwise of a referendum. Since 1973, when Ireland first entered what was then the EEC, there has been a straightforward approach whereby the Attorney General of the day examines each treaty dealing with Irish participation in the European Union. If the treaty requires constitutional change, a constitutional amendment is put to the people in a referendum. If it does not, there is no referendum. Let us wait and see what the Attorney General, an independent office-holder, decides and then we can respond. I am rather surprised that anybody would doubt the fact that the Attorney General is independent of the Government and will make the proper legal adjudication. Let us wait until then.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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It is a political appointment.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Bradford without interruption.

Paul Bradford (Fine Gael)
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As has often been stated in this House, we have a significant role to play in debating the broader issues of our involvement with the European Union, European policy making and initiatives Europe can take to assist us with job creation and putting our country back to work. It is not all about yesterday's treaty or a once-off meeting. The entire European concept is ongoing and moving and we must play our part in that.

I remind my colleagues that this Tuesday last year the then Taoiseach, former Deputy Brian Cowen, asked the President to dissolve the Dáil. At that stage our country was not only broken economically but morale was at an all-time low. There were huge doubts about our reputation here and abroad. Difficult decisions have been taken in the intervening 12 months and every man, woman and child has suffered financially as a result of those decisions. However, our country is changing and things have become a little more positive. There is hope. We have travelled a slow, steady but important journey in the 12 months since the dissolution of the Dáil this time last year. Let us hope progress can continue. Ultimately, the prime target is to get our people back to work. The European treaty, the European Union and all of us have a part to play in that regard.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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I thank and congratulate the Leader, Senator Maurice Cummins, on the speedy arrangements he made for statements, questions and answers on local government reform in the Chamber tomorrow. I raised the matter following our meeting with the Local Authority Members Association on the previous evening. Well done, Senator. Will he confirm that the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Phil Hogan, will be present?

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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I am sure the Leader will confirm that in his reply. I thank the Senator for being so brief.

Tom Shehan (Fine Gael)
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Will the Leader arrange for a debate on diabetes? It is a disease that affects many people. One cannot see that a person is suffering from diabetes because the person looks perfect and can go about their daily lives. However, it is a very debilitating disease. We should raise awareness of it and of the suffering of other members of a family where diabetes is a factor. There is an onus on us to raise this issue, and I would appreciate it if the Leader would facilitate an open and frank debate on it.

Marc MacSharry (Fianna Fail)
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I join other Members in seeking a debate on the motion. We will use our Private Members' time next week to discuss the rural schools, which is an important issue. Notwithstanding that these are difficult times and cuts are necessary, this cut is not necessary. The cost to society generally and to rural Ireland far outweighs any benefit in the context of savings in the Department of Education and Skills. For that reason the teachers of Ireland who are due to descend on Dáil Éireann this evening and tomorrow should be supported. I know many Government Deputies and Senators share my view and I hope commonsense can be brought to bear and these unnecessary cuts can be reversed.

The fiscal treaty has been mentioned by many Members. I seek an early debate on this issue. It is imperative that a referendum is held on the treaty. That is not to denote any opposition to the treaty or to make a political issue of it. However, the failing of the political system here over the years, not least under the last Administration and certainly under this one, when one sees the understandable public anger, is the lack of public ownership of the public policy platform. That is a critical issue which must be addressed and far be it from the Houses of the Oireachtas to be in fear of what the people might say or think about a particular point of view, irrespective of whether the Attorney General takes a view that it is possible to do this constitutionally. In my view it is imperative that our system and approach since 1973 modernises and changes to consult the people a lot more often. If the people have more of an input as to the legislation being dealt with in terms of Bills and issues, then they will have more ownership of public policy and, as a result, can have more confidence in the political system. For that reason alone, the Government should show absolute leadership, and irrespective of the constitutional position and the necessity or otherwise of the fiscal treaty, it should hold a referendum. We should show political leadership and show confidence in our people and consult them on this very important issue.

Michael Mullins (Fine Gael)
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I join others in complimenting the Taoiseach and other European leaders on the progress they made in concluding the fiscal treaty document last night. I would like to see a decision reached at an early stage as to whether a referendum is necessary. While I do not think anyone has anything to fear from holding a referendum, I would disagree with Senator MacSharry in his argument. If the Attorney General concludes a referendum is not necessary, it would be a great waste of time and money and possibly cause divisiveness to have a campaign that was deemed to be unnecessary. We will await the decision of the Attorney General. Everyone wants to see the Government get on with the urgent business of creating employment and getting our finances back on track and the country back into a more desirable state.

Senator Quinn spoke earlier about the importance of time, speed and efficiency. Will the Leader organise it in order that on the next occasion the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Varadkar, is in the House to discuss transport issues, we would also have the opportunity to discuss the operation of the Galway-Limerick section of the western rail corridor which was the subject of a recent "Prime Time" programme and which showed it in a rather bad light. I support the call made recently by the West on Track committee for the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport, to open this section of track to a possible private operator, such as the RPA which made a stunning success of the Luas operation, and to invite other operators to tender for the running of this section. It is very obvious that Iarnród Éireann has no particular interest in it. Right from the start it has undermined it, failed to market it and priced it incorrectly. The company is ensuring that rolling stock is taking two hours to travel from Galway to Limerick when less than one hour should be sufficient. I call for a debate on this section of the western rail corridor. The money has been spent to put it in place and we must ensure we get value for money and that the people who wish to use the service are getting a fast, efficient and user-friendly service.

Terry Brennan (Fine Gael)
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I wish to raise a matter which I have raised on previous occasions. The cost of diesel fuel is at its highest ever level, as far as I can recall. It seems to be increasing daily and this may be influenced by what is happening in foreign fields. Fuel laundering and diesel fuel laundering in particular is now big illegal business. It is no longer just a Border counties issue and is now in the west and south as well. It is becoming more attractive now for car owners to purchase from the garage outlets selling laundered diesel, irrespective of the damage and the damage being done to vehicles. More important is the loss of revenue to the economy as illegal laundered diesel accounts for 10% to 12% of the current total fuel market. I suggest that one diesel fuel should be available for everyone with a rebate system available to the farmer or those with vehicles which are not used on the public roadway. There may be difficulties of which I am unaware in having such a system but it is timely to have a debate on this matter.

I will give an instance. In my own county of Louth it costs the State €1 million to clear up the sludge left behind, transport it via Dublin to be incinerated in Germany. In the Border counties, it cost €3 million last year. Concrete action must be taken. I urge the Leader to arrange a debate and I ask for an explanation as to the reason one diesel fuel cannot be accessible to all.

Tom Shehan (Fine Gael)
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Hear, hear.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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There have been a number of requests for debates and I will endeavour to facilitate those where possible. However, I wish to express my disappointment at the number of Members present in the Chamber for the debate last Thursday which was an excellent exchange with the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine. For the first 50 minutes of the debate, only three Members were present on the other side of the House and only seven Members on this, the Government side of the House. This number rose from three to six during some part of the debate and from seven to nine, in the case of Members on this side of the House, for the remainder of the debate. This is not acceptable. Members repeatedly ask for debates and I cannot in good faith continue to go to Ministers and say there is great interest from Senators for debates on various areas of their portfolios only for those Ministers to attend the House and address a half empty or less than half empty Chamber.

There is daily discussion in this House on the need to improve its image. This is the responsibility of the Members. Senators who come to the Chamber for the Order of Business and then depart immediately do nothing to improve the reputation and perception of this House. I acknowledge that they must attend committee meetings, but such meetings should not be held during the Order of Business and Senators should not facilitate their commencement when the Order of Business is being dealt with.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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Hear, hear.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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I ask all Members to make an effort to spend more time in the House and engage proactively with its business, which is what we are here to do. I hope this will start from today and that more Members will be in the Chamber to address legislation and statements. When Ministers are invited to attend the House for debates which have been requested by Members from all sides, it is not acceptable that only a handful are present. This is not a productive way to use our time.

I have had a number of requests and I take on board what has been said by the Leader of the Opposition regarding a debate on the fiscal compact, the treaty and the Opposition Private Members' motion next week on the subject of rural schools. I take on board the contributions of all other Senators who have spoken on the Order of Business.