Ann Ormonde (Fianna Fail)
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I also welcome the former Cathaoirleach.

I am delighted this motion has been tabled as it affords a great opportunity to try to put to bed some of the misinformation that has been circulating in communities throughout the length and breadth of the country. I also have an educational background. In common with everyone else in this Chamber, I do not have a monopoly on what constitutes right and wrong but I will do my best to reflect the views as honestly as I can. In addition, I also have concerns in this regard and understand the concerns of parents who have a child who requires special needs attention. I used to assess children who were making the transition from primary to second level schools. In respect of psychological assessments, we would have in place a chief psychologist, a remedial teacher, a career guidance counsellor, a resource teacher, a special needs person and the parents. That group would decide clearly - it never became political - that if the child in question needed special attention, he or she would receive it. I will never see, under any Government, a child with special needs being deprived at any time.

I was delighted to read the last line of the Minister's speech and will repeat it:

Let me finish by stating a fact, something the Senator's statements are all too often lacking. Any child who needs a special needs assistant ... will get [a special needs assistant].

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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That is good news, which I welcome.

Ann Ormonde (Fianna Fail)
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I will let the case rest on that statement. I would welcome a review as any new concept that has been taken on board should be reviewed. The EPSEN Act was introduced in 2004 and I identify with the point made by Senator O'Toole about the desirability of having a step-by-step procedure. The way forward is to ensure that no special education needs organiser, SENO, will decide that a child does not require a special needs assistant. That is a group decision by the school, which is able to make such a decision. The point is that one does not want special needs assistants to be in the building in cases where the child might have left the school and gone elsewhere. The aim is to integrate the child into the mainstream as far as possible and that should be the special needs assistant's aim. It is to be welcomed when a special needs assistant can do this and can try to provide independence to the child. Moreover, it is important to note that this scheme still is in place and the criteria for the allocation of special needs assistants remain the same. When a pupil qualifies for support, special needs assistant posts will continue. There is no question of the special needs assistant post being removed from schools that meet the scheme's criteria. Any child who needs a special needs assistant will get one.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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It is all about the criteria.

Cecilia Keaveney (Fianna Fail)
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The criteria have not changed.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator Ormonde, without interruption.

Ann Ormonde (Fianna Fail)
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The criteria will be based on the professional assessment and Senator Healy Eames should be aware that the professional assessment will make the decision on what are the criteria in any given case.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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It is all about the criteria.

Ann Ormonde (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator knows this as well as do I. The Government has made efforts whereby 23,000 teachers were brought on an in-service course to be trained as resource teachers to help out in this area. That initiative was only last year and is a huge move.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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They are not resource teachers.

Ann Ormonde (Fianna Fail)
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I refer to 23,000 teachers.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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That is huge but they are not resource teachers.

Ann Ormonde (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator should acknowledge that something is taking place.

I acknowledge there was a lack of consultation. I note the Minister of State, Deputy Moloney, who is present, represents the health aspects of this issue and there must be greater consultation that must start very early on. Early intervention often comes from the health rather than the education sector because public health nurses are the first people who ascertain what is wrong with a child. A system should be developed with the Department of Health and Children whereby the Department of Education and Science will come into play when a child is four years of age. I am not convinced that such early intervention is working well as yet. The Minister of State should bear in mind that a better cross-departmental approach is required on this issue that encompasses the Department of Health and Children, the HSE and the Department of Education and Science.

I do not want any child to be deprived and the Minister also has stated this. The people in the Gallery who are listening may rest assured that any child who needs a special needs assistant will get one. The bottom line is that my concern is for the child. Such a child should have access to equal opportunities in all walks of life and I believe the communities and schools should come into play in this regard. The school and the community should work together with parents and teachers. The approach should be developed to have a community spirit whereby the child can be integrated both into mainstream education and the community so he or she will grow in a natural way with the other development needs of other children in the area. In this way, they will rise through the peer pressure of their own age group.

I wish to reassure the House that special needs assistance will remain for those who need it. The present position concerns cases in which a child has moved on or where the school considers that a child does not need special assistance and has a sufficient number of trained teachers. Moreover, this is the manner in which I wish to proceed. I was satisfied with the Minister's speech this evening and I am glad he put an end to the misinformation that was extant. It is to be hoped that as the EPSEN Act is further developed, such children will get the proper education they need, that they will be integrated and that the supports will be in place in the special schools and for those who need them.

David Norris (Independent)
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I wish to share time with Senator Prendergast with the permission of the House. May I be greedy and take four minutes?

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Is that agreed? Agreed.

David Norris (Independent)
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First I wish to place this in a context. At the outset of this economic crisis, I warned that the Government was completely wrong to dismantle every agency that spoke out on behalf of the vulnerable. It did so and this kind of thing is the result. However, I do not believe that all virtue or human feeling resides in this House and I know my former colleague from this House, Deputy Batt O'Keeffe, to be a decent and caring man. This does not mean the policies always are decent or caring because they may in fact not be. Regardless of what one might think, the loss of 1,200 special needs assistants is a quite extraordinary cull and must be explained. It appears as though there has been an attempt to explain this in economic terms, which can be highly problematic because these are the most vulnerable people and I do not believe the full case has been made.

I wish to say something in particular about St. Joseph's school, Balrothery, at which there has been a quite extraordinary and devastating reduction of 66%. In his contribution, the Minister asked an extraordinary question of Senator Healy Eames. He asked Senator Healy Eames:

whether she really believes that a child who is developing independence and confidence should continue to receive support he or she does not need. Might that inhibit the child's further development?

That was a most extraordinary phrase, at which I turned round and looked at some of the parents and teachers from St. Joseph's school, Balrothery, in the Gallery. If the Minister is good at reading body language, he will have read the answer. It was a grotesque question as of course the children need it. I was very glad that Senator-----

Cecilia Keaveney (Fianna Fail)
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That is totally-----

David Norris (Independent)
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Shut up for a minute.

Cecilia Keaveney (Fianna Fail)
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-----unfair.

Ned O'Sullivan (Fianna Fail)
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That is out of order.

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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It is totally wrong to say "shut up".

David Norris (Independent)
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I listened to Senator Ormonde-----

Ann Ormonde (Fianna Fail)
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That was out of order.

David Norris (Independent)
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It was not a bit out of order. I am fed up with this kind of thing. We have a short amount of time and there are real issues here. I am not attacking the other side, but-----

Ned O'Sullivan (Fianna Fail)
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He is not allowed to tell a Senator to shut up.

David Norris (Independent)
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-----I do not appreciate this attempt to waste time.

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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Telling anyone in this Parliament to shut up is-----

David Norris (Independent)
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I will leave it to the Cathaoirleach, but it is not a bit unparliamentary.

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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It is unparliamentary.

David Norris (Independent)
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I meant it and they should because that kind of behaviour disgraces them.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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It is outrageous.

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Norris would not like anyone to say it to him.

Ned O'Sullivan (Fianna Fail)
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It would not work, either.

David Norris (Independent)
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It would not bother me in the slightest. I have had a lot worse said to me, I can assure the Cathaoirleach. I am not so thin skinned. I acknowledge the fact that people on the Government side of the House are raw because there is pressure. This is a difficult time, difficult decisions must be taken and so on, but I like the fact that Senator Ormonde stated she will not stand over a situation in which special needs assistants, SNAs, are withdrawn from where they are needed. If one asks the parents, teachers and professionals whether SNAs are needed, they will tell one. It should not just be the people who are sent in by various Departments, as it depends on their expertise. They might be sent in to take part in the cull.

This is a serious situation and it was heartening that Senators O'Toole and Ó Brolcháin appeared to be moving towards a common ground in trying to assert pressure in support of the Minister. Many of these moves come from the Department of Finance. That is its remit. However, we should all stand over a situation in which people are not forced out of their work.

Had the motion been worded slightly differently and the word "failure" not been included, accommodating it would have been easier for the Government. It is not always helpful to discuss failure. The motion calls on the Minister to publish the National Council for Special Education's advice on this issue. Points that must be considered are that he has indicated the advice is in the process of publication independently of him and that he does not have it. This was a reasonable comment to make and I was glad to be able to hear it. He was then asked to provide a timeline-----

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator's time is up.

David Norris (Independent)
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I want a bit of injury time because I was heckled by the Government side.

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Norris will be taking from Senator Prendergast.

David Norris (Independent)
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I will not. If she has any sense, she will keep talking past her time.

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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I will not allow it.

Cecilia Keaveney (Fianna Fail)
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This is disrespect for the Chair.

David Norris (Independent)
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The Cathaoirleach might face a series of challenges because this situation is ridiculous.

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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I call for Senator Norris to finish and to allow Senator Prendergast contribute. Please respect the Chair.

David Norris (Independent)
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I will finish on this point.

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator cannot.

David Norris (Independent)
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The Cathaoirleach is now interrupting me. I would like the time that I have been allocated democratically to speak on this issue. It is making a farce of the whole matter that we are all treated like this.

Cecilia Keaveney (Fianna Fail)
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Playing to the gallery.

David Norris (Independent)
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That is fact coming from Senator Keaveney. I will let Senator Prendergast in because I am sure she will make a compelling case. I am also sure she will get her full allocation of time.

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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That is fine and she will.

Phil Prendergast (Labour)
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I thank Senator Norris for sharing time with me on what I realise is an important subject. I will try not to repeat any of the points that have already been made, but I want to share some of my experiences.

I was contacted by a lady who had one child and was due a second. Her first child, who was in school, was aged five years and a diabetic who was severely dependent on insulin. The child needed insulin four times or more often per day. The mother was going to have a planned Caesarean section because the nature of her condition required it. In good time, we asked for an SNA to be allocated to her child because she was going to the school to administer the insulin each time a dose was required. An SNA with specialist training was required in that instance, but I was often told that no SNA could be allocated and that the mother would have to go to the school. As everyone knows, however, one is not covered by insurance for up to six weeks after an operation. A dilemma was posed when the woman was asked to take her child out of the school. Sense prevailed and we managed to get the child an SNA, but the situation was emotive and upsetting for the mother. This was a case of a child with a different type of special need than someone on, for example, the autistic spectrum.

I want to discuss SNAs I have met in Cahir, Cashel, Clonmel and Carrick-on-Suir in south County Tipperary who were asked questions by officials from the Department of Education and Science. The officials told the SNAs that they were not interested in the cognitive abilities of the children with special needs in respect of whom the SNAs were in charge. Instead, the SNAs were asked whether the children would harm themselves or others were they not present. The SNAs needed to answer honestly, so they lost their jobs. What kind of criterion is this for assessing needs? Children with special needs improve in every way when someone caters for their needs and where they build interpersonal relations, trust and understanding. I had a problem with accepting the Department's approach. The subject of autistic children is a wide one. In the limited time I have, I will not discuss them, but their needs can vary throughout the day. One-on-one help allows them to improve and manage.

A lady living in Carrick-on-Suir was involved in a slightly different circumstance. Her child was attending Scoil Cormac in Cashel because their needs required the Lámh system. The woman could not get transport to the school because her nearest special needs school was in Waterford. However, her child had been assessed by a psychologist and was improving because of the Lámh system, which suited the child.

I have encountered these situations while holding clinics in south County Tipperary. They are not made up and are absolute fact. SNAs have lost their jobs, but children are the real losers. I again thank Senator Norris for his time.

Ned O'Sullivan (Fianna Fail)
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With the permission of the House, I wish to share time with Senator Mullen.

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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Is that agreed? Agreed.

Ned O'Sullivan (Fianna Fail)
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I thank my colleagues in Fine Gael for tabling this motion and giving us an opportunity to throw light on an important subject. I regret that the motion, as worded, is predicated on a number of misunderstandings and errors which I will address later. None the less, the motion gives us and the Minister an opportunity to outline in a positive manner what is being done for pupils with special educational needs.

We should insert a bit of balance into this debate and examine the facts, although the Minister covered many of them. Some 10,000 SNAs are working in our schools with an annual budget of €300 million. More than €1 billion has been allocated for special education this year. The comparative figure in 2004 was €468 million. The number of support and resource teachers has quadrupled since 1998 from approximately 2,000 to approximately 8,000. These are staggering figures. The pupil-teacher ratio in respect of students with special needs has been enhanced. The school capitation rates for that category of school have improved by 30% in the past three years. The budget for the transport of students with special educational needs amounts to €50 million. There are also 45 early intervention classes for children with autism. That all of these figures have been glossed over in the Opposition's motion is extraordinary, as is the negative tone of some, but not all, Opposition spokespersons.

The renewed programme for Government commits the State to further investment in special education provision at a time when education budgets in Ireland and abroad are being slashed. That there will be a psychologist for every school in the country with emphasis on those with special needs units is another significant step forward.

A close member of my family had special needs 20 years ago at a time when none of these services was available. She had the good fortune of having educated parents who were teachers and possessed the wherewithal to travel abroad to provide for my niece's needs. There was nothing in this country at the time, a fact that should be borne in mind before we start attacking the Minister willy-nilly.

I ask Senator Healy Eames to withdraw a stark error in the motion when she concludes, namely, that teachers have no access to proper training. The Minister pointed out that nearly half the teachers in the country have had access to special training. Some 23,000 teachers availed of training places last year and more than 300 teachers availed of places on postgraduate programmes. It does the Senator's argument no good when she includes comments that make no sense. Another element of the motion castigates the Minister for not publishing a report which he has not even had sight of, which is not completed and which will be on the Department's website as soon as it is finished. Let us get real. We often call for Ministers to come to the House to debate various issues, and a senior Minister of State is here. Let us have facts on our Order Paper before we call for a Minister again.

Exaggeration does no case any good. Where did the figure of 1,200 special needs assistants, SNAs, come from? It was plucked out of the sky by someone who wanted to make a political trade union point and has been picked up, with no critical analysis, by Senator Healy Eames. I did my own research today and rang a number of people, including members of the National Council for Special Education and people at the coal-face. A more realistic estimate of the number is 250. During our recent debate on CAO places the 2.65% increase in applications claimed by Senator Healy Eames turned out to be an increase of less than 1%. She should get her facts right.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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They are all based on published reports.

Ned O'Sullivan (Fianna Fail)
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We must not place an increased burden on parents and teachers, who have a very difficult job already. We should not frighten them with erroneous statistics.

Cecilia Keaveney (Fianna Fail)
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Hear, hear.

Ned O'Sullivan (Fianna Fail)
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May I say a final word on behalf of special schools? I am thinking, particularly, of the Nano Nagle school in Listowel. It has 24 SNAs for 66 pupils, which sounds excessive but one must consider the service the school provides. It has pupils with moderate and profound learning difficulties and children with autism, epilepsy and other conditions. The school deals with all these difficulties and provides a huge service to the region.

I ask the Minister of State to give as much help as he can to physiotherapy and occupational therapy. There should be more consultation with the HSE in this regard.

There are many ways to access extra funding for special needs. It is my priority. Can small towns like my own continue to afford three secondary schools, single sex primary schools, gaelscoileanna and Educate Together schools, which are all optional? In days of plenty they are a wonderful idea but in days of want these things must be looked at. We must prioritise our special needs students.

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
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We have an ironic situation. Earlier today, we discussed a proposed constitutional amendment, one provision of which is that the State would cherish all the children of the State equally. Now we find ourselves discussing the most vulnerable members of our society. I do not wish to play party politics or any other kind. I recognise it is difficult in these times to make ends meet but I hope the most vulnerable in our society will always be at the top of our priority list. The children we are talking about ought to be at the top of that list.

When one sees parents and supporters of children with special needs taking the trouble to attend debates in this House one knows they are concerned. I spoke briefly with a representative of St. Joseph's school in Tallaght. They are hoping for a stay of execution while the various issues in their case are resolved. They fear cuts in provisions which would affect their loved ones. I hope there will be openness and dialogue in an effort to meet their needs.

Various figures have been cited for the number of jobs which have been or are being cut. I have heard it said that the Government provided too many SNAs at one time. I do not know if that claim is true. I do know there is no need for the funding of these programmes to be cut to the extent it has been. That cannot be justified. There may have been more money to go round in times of plenty. This may have caused people to develop their expectations, but always in ways which were necessary and appropriate because they were dealing with people's real needs.

I am involved with the trusteeship of second level schools through CEIST, the Catholic Education, an Irish Schools Trust. These schools say they have already seen an indirect impact on the most disadvantaged children because of the reduction in numbers of special needs assistants at primary level. This, in turn, will have an impact on students at second level as they are deprived of the fullest possible opportunity to develop.

There have also been cuts in other areas, such as grant allocations, and increased pupil teacher ratios in subject significant areas such as the leaving certificate applied programme, LCAP, the leaving certificate vocational programme, LCVP, and the junior certificate school programme, JCSP. All of this, taken together with what we are discussing, must give great cause for concern. The number of special needs children is rising and we must plan for appropriate assistance for them. The worldwide figures for autism alone have been on the rise for the past number of years, which is a matter of major concern.

We must ask about the appropriateness of cutbacks in the middle of the year, when people cannot plan to deal with them properly. Issues surround the making of special needs assistants redundant where boards of management are not responsible for making people redundant but are responsible for making redundancy payments. We are seeing a breakdown in the system, creating all sorts of problems for good people in different areas.

We must revisit the decisions taken to date. We cannot allow children who are in need to be neglected. We must do something to reform the budget cuts which have had such adverse effects on the lives of many children in need and on our education system.

Pearse Doherty (Sinn Fein)
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I understand the difficulties and sensitivities in this area. Last week, I raised the issue of special needs assistants on the Adjournment and the Minister gave a very unsatisfactory reply. Even following that reply, serious questions remain to be answered. We need answers. Senators on the Government side dispute the figure of 1,200 SNA jobs lost. My colleagues in the Dáil have submitted parliamentary questions on this issue but no matter how often we ask the question, the Minister refuses to tell us how many special needs assistants have been lost in the last year. We do not know how many more will be lost or if schools which have lost SNAs or special classes will be provided with additional special needs supports. We do not know if additional resources will be provided for schools which have lost special needs supports or if mainstream class teachers will be given extra training to deal with the loss of those supports. I ask the Minister of State to answer these questions. It is important that we debate this issue with accurate facts. The pupils, who are most affected by these cuts, as well as their parents, teachers and communities, deserve answers.

Until I have official figures I must rely on the information I have been given, that up to 1,200 special needs assistants will have been cut from the system by the end of this month. This support is being withdrawn from children with a wide range of conditions within the autism spectrum and with ADHD and dyslexia. We have heard of cases of cuts to services to children with Down's syndrome. These cuts cannot be justified, especially in the context of large class sizes, some as big as 30 to one teacher. Cuts have already been implemented, such as that to the resource grant and home school liaison teachers.

A child with a special need in a mainstream classroom without adequate support would surely get lost in the system. To deny a child a proper chance of education and of life, all for the sake of a few million euro which could otherwise be found, is disgraceful.

It is high time the Government looked at the provision of special needs assistants as more than a financial matter. We are talking about children and not numbers. They do not deserve to be shoved from pillar to post as an accounting exercise. Cuts to special needs support is not only heartless. This move will seriously impair these children's education for years to come and will have knock-on effects in the future. It is another example of the Government's shortsighted cost-cutting measures. Special needs assistants are not a luxury that can be cut. They are absolutely essential and an integral part of the education system.

Earlier, we heard reference to the 1916 Proclamation. The leading party in the Government claims to be a republican party. The republican message in the Proclamation, the pledge made by the leaders of 1916 to the Irish republic, was to cherish all the children of the nation equally. That is what we are talking about in this debate. We are talking about children and equality. Children have as much right to a decent education and a decent start to life as anybody else.

I appeal to the Minister not to proceed with further cuts to special needs support and to reinstate the support that has already been lost. I will support the motion tabled by the Fine Gael Party and I commend it on availing of the opportunity to raise this in a formal debate. I note that the motion does not call for the reinstatement of the cuts that have taken place, and that is where I would differ from it. The supports which have been cut should be reinstated.

Where there has been significant investment in the area of special needs by this Government, it has been rightly applauded by people throughout in this State, no more than it was applauded at Fianna Fáil Ard-Fheiseanna, because it was the right thing to do. It is the republican thing to do. However, when supports are withdrawn from vulnerable children, the right thing and the republican thing to do is to reinstate them.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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This motion has stimulated much debate and I thank all Senators who contributed. My interest is the child. I have no other interest in this. I am not interested in making it a political issue but it is one because Government decisions are making or breaking children. The Government side has been extremely defensive in its behaviour. I would ask some of the Senators who threw many wild accusations my way why they do not attack the people who wrote the reports in the newspapers? I have not written the reports about the number of special needs assistants being cut by 1,200. However, when I contacted the National Council for Special Education, it told me that of 1,000 schools-----

Cecilia Keaveney (Fianna Fail)
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Who told the Senator?

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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Gabh mo leithscéal. Tá mé ag caint anois.

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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There should no interruptions.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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I am losing time.

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator has five minutes to wrap up and there should be no interruptions.

Cecilia Keaveney (Fianna Fail)
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She said she would put a name on the record.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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When I contacted the National Council for Special Education, it said that of 1,000 schools, the number of special needs assistants has been cut by 300. There are 4,000 primary schools so if we extrapolate from that, perhaps it is from there the author got the figure because it would come to 1,200.

The Government is guilty of misinformation. The problem is the criteria. A number of Senators on the Government side and the Minister said that any child who needs a special needs assistant will get one. I am delighted with that statement because there will be a massive queue at their doors. I will pass on the record to the parents who have concerns and the teachers who need that proof.

The problem is the criteria. The upshot of this is the fact the Education for Persons with Special Educational Needs Act has not been implemented. Until that Act is implemented, none of our children's rights is protected. The reason the school represented by the people in the Visitors Gallery, who are not here at my invitation, who are here of their own free will and whom I have never met until this evening, are about to lose 12 special needs assistants and ten teachers is that it is being judged under the special education review committee report of 1993 which preceded the Education for Persons with Special Educational Needs Act that has not yet been implemented. The SERC report will increase their pupil-teacher ratio and, as a result, the school will lose 12 SNAs and ten teachers. Those are the criteria and they are wrong. The Minister cannot argue with these facts. If the NCSE gets its way, the school will have to close because it will not be able to guarantee the health and safety of students and staff. I ask the Minister if this a political football. This is real.

My concern is the child's learning in order that he or she will grow to be independent. These children will have no swimming, no home economics, no woodwork practicals and no certificate examinations. These are children from four to nine years age. What will their future entail? This Government, by applying these criteria, is destroying and educationally maiming these children's lives and it fills me with disgust. The NCSE's criteria is outdated and does not take modern developments or needs into account.

The National Council for Special Education's special educational needs organisers, SENOs, interpret psychologists' reports, although they are not qualified to do so. Many Senators on the Government side, including Senator Keaveney, will be concerned that the review processes which they are carrying out in schools are unsatisfactory because they do not consult the staff. The teachers and the SNAs are not included in the consultation process. Some teachers in schools in Galway have told me they are not consulted at all. It is as if they have no intellect or no experience with the child. The SENO only sits in the class for half an hour. That review process is flawed.

In the case of the school, representatives of which are in the Visitors Gallery, the speech and language and communication disorders of their children were completely ignored because the children's IQ was between 45 and 70. That means that if one has a low IQ, one's speech or understanding does not matter. I have been a teacher and a lecturer in teacher education and I am a parent of two young children, and that really matters.

I call on the Government to publish the NCSE's advice and to provide a timeline and the resourcing for the implementation of the Education for Persons with Special Educational Needs Act which will protect all our children's educational rights. I commend the Government on enacting that legislation but it should implement and resource it.

Ned O'Sullivan (Fianna Fail)
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On a point of order, Senator Healy Eames should withdraw the remarks in regard to the 1,200 SNAs and her attack on the Minister for not publishing a report he has not yet received.

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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That is not a point of order.

Ned O'Sullivan (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator should withdraw those ridiculous statements because it makes a mockery of her motion.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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Absolutely not.

Ned O'Sullivan (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator should be responsible.

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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When is it proposed to sit again?

Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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Ag 10.30 maidin amárach.