David Norris (Independent)

It would not bother me in the slightest. I have had a lot worse said to me, I can assure the Cathaoirleach. I am not so thin skinned. I acknowledge the fact that people on the Government side of the House are raw because there is pressure. This is a difficult time, difficult decisions must be taken and so on, but I like the fact that Senator Ormonde stated she will not stand over a situation in which special needs assistants, SNAs, are withdrawn from where they are needed. If one asks the parents, teachers and professionals whether SNAs are needed, they will tell one. It should not just be the people who are sent in by various Departments, as it depends on their expertise. They might be sent in to take part in the cull.

This is a serious situation and it was heartening that Senators O'Toole and Ó Brolcháin appeared to be moving towards a common ground in trying to assert pressure in support of the Minister. Many of these moves come from the Department of Finance. That is its remit. However, we should all stand over a situation in which people are not forced out of their work.

Had the motion been worded slightly differently and the word "failure" not been included, accommodating it would have been easier for the Government. It is not always helpful to discuss failure. The motion calls on the Minister to publish the National Council for Special Education's advice on this issue. Points that must be considered are that he has indicated the advice is in the process of publication independently of him and that he does not have it. This was a reasonable comment to make and I was glad to be able to hear it. He was then asked to provide a timeline-----