Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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I wish to share my time with Senator Ross.

Dominic Hannigan (Labour)
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Is that agreed? Agreed.

Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Haughey, and thank the Cathaoirleach for allowing me to raise this matter regarding the budget cuts that will affect Protestant schools. As the Minister of State knows, many of our Protestant secondary schools are rural voluntary schools. I am talking about schools such as Bandon Grammar School and Midleton College in Cork. These have been specifically targeted by the mid-year withdrawal of the support services grant, which amounts to a smash-and-grab raid on our schools and their resources. Twenty-one schools are affected nationally by this cut of about €2.8 million, which is not an major amount in the overall budget of the Department.

When free education was introduced in 1968, the Government agreed that schools such as those I mentioned would not be included in the free scheme. This special grant was in recognition of the fact that we as a State could not provide an appropriate education for people of the Protestant faith, particularly as these children were few in number and the Protestant community was dispersed. It is important that we allow all children to be educated under an ethos of their choosing. This sum of €2.8 million annually is not a major amount in the overall scheme. Many of the schools are fee-paying and the grant is used as a step-up support grant to families who in some cases are unable to pay.

We are at a crossroads with these schools. Many of them will close. What will be the response of the State in this case? Will the State provide funding for schools under Protestant management such as those in Bandon and Midleton? The imposition of this cut was done without consultation, which is a regressive move. We are talking about a minority grouping of people with a distinct faith who are part of our State and who have a right to be educated in their own denomination. We need to take cognisance of that. This move also has implications for those who cannot afford to pay fees. What happens to them? Cuts in the budget have affected people across the board.

I ask the Minister in his reply to take note of what I said.

Shane Ross (Independent)
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I thank Senator Buttimer for giving me some of his time to address this subject. It is a sensitive but important subject because it says a lot about the attitude of the State towards its minorities. I have had several representations from Protestant schools and schools with a Protestant ethos which are dumbstruck that the Minister would go to such trouble to retrieve €2.8 million, despite the difficulty it will cause to so many families.

The grant, as Senator Buttimer said, was a demonstration of the liberal tolerance of former Deputy Donogh O'Malley when he gave out, initially, two sets of grants to Protestant schools 40 years ago. The special services support grant, which the Minister has cut, amounts to only €2.8 million but its withdrawal will have a dramatic effect on certain Protestant schools. The effects are likely to be that, at the very least, one teacher will be lost in each of these schools in order to save money and, second, that fees will increase. The result of an increase in fees in schools such as these will be that certain parents of Protestant backgrounds will not be able to send their children to the schools of their choice. I am in favour of parents being able to educate their children together if that is what they want, or sending their children to Protestant schools, Roman Catholic schools or whatever they like. However, the withdrawal of this grant says the State no longer fosters that liberal ethos. It says that people should no longer be allowed to make that choice but that the State will in effect, by limiting the finances available, dictate to parents where their children go to school, and that the choice of ethos, whether it is Roman Catholic, Protestant, or any other, will be made by the State rather than by the parents.

It is important not just in terms of the €2.8 million — which is important to certain parents as it will force their hands if it is withdrawn — and not just in terms of education, but in terms of the ethos of people who want to pursue a particular minority way of life. This is not a denominational matter. It is a matter of the State's taking a liberal attitude and the Minister deciding that the €2.8 million remains the way it was. I heard the excuses being given in the debate in the Dáil, and the weakest of all was that the Attorney General had given some sort of advice that this is discriminatory. How in the name of God was this only mentioned at the time of the budget? If it is discriminatory now in favour of a minority religion, it has been discriminatory for 40 years.

Seán Haughey (Dublin North Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am pleased to be given the opportunity to clarify for the House the position with regard to the withdrawal of certain grants from Protestant fee-paying schools.

The 2009 budget required difficult choices to be made across all areas of public expenditure. Decisions were made in order to control expenditure and to ensure sustainability in the long term. In this respect, education, while protected to a much greater extent than most other areas of public expenditure, could not be entirely spared. The Minister, Deputy Batt O'Keeffe, acknowledges the impact of funding restrictions in a number of areas, including at school level. However, these are the inevitable result of the challenging international economic environment and the need to manage Exchequer resources.

With regard to the removal of certain support services grants received by Protestant fee-charging schools, the Minister wishes to re-emphasise that the Protestant block grant remains in place. Protestant fee-charging schools receive, and will continue to receive, this grant which amounts to €6.25 million in the current school year. This payment covers capitation, tuition and boarding grants. It is distributed by the secondary education committee among needier Protestant children. Applications are made by parents to the Central Protestant Churches Authority, which, on the basis of a means test, distributes the funds to individual schools on the basis of pupil need. The retention of this grant demonstrates the importance the Government continues to attach to ensuring students of the Protestant faith can attend schools that reflect their denominational ethos.

In retaining this grant, the Government is being faithful to the separate arrangements that were agreed with the Protestant schools when the free scheme was introduced by Mr. Donagh O'Malley. At the time, it was the payment of the block grant in particular for Protestant fee-charging schools that distinguished them from those Catholic schools that chose to continue to charge fees. It is estimated that savings of €2.8 million will accrue to the Department as a result of the withdrawal of support services grants from Protestant fee-charging schools in 2009. It is important to note that the purpose of these grants was not to offset fees for disadvantaged Protestant students. Rather, they covered a range of support services.

The Minister has had to take decisions on a number of grants that have impacted on the funding of schools generally. With the Protestant block grant remaining in place, the Minister can see no justification for treating the Protestant fee-charging schools in a special way, especially given that Catholic fee-charging schools have not been in receipt of the grants in question at all. Once again, I thank the Senator for providing me with the opportunity to address the House on this matter and to outline the current position.

Shane Ross (Independent)
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The Minister of State's reply is totally unsatisfactory. He is giving no credence to this special ethos. Will he ask the Minister for Education and Science what are the economic benefits of this €2.8 million saving. Economies of scale must enter the equation, particularly as some Protestant schools are very small and other schools are much larger.

Seán Haughey (Dublin North Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am reluctant to address the Senator's question. The Minister answered oral parliamentary questions on the matter in the Dáil this week. He said there is a constitutional issue and he is setting up a meeting with the Protestant Archbishop of Dublin.

Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister of State for his reply but it is disappointing. In meeting the Archbishop, would the Minister of State also include Bishop Colton of Cork? What happens to those who cannot afford to pay fees? What happens if a school loses a teacher? Will the State provide education? That has not been addressed.

Seán Haughey (Dublin North Central, Fianna Fail)
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I will forward the additional questions to the Minister. I am sure there will be further debate on the matter.