Seán Power (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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I thank you, a Chathaoirligh, for the opportunity to address the House on a theme of particular importance. We have a well established legislative and administrative infrastructure to support equality principles. The provisions of the Employment Equality Acts and the Equal Status Acts, together with the work of the Equality Authority and the Equality Tribunal, have given us a very firm foundation which is recognised internationally. The legislation provides protection as well as a forum for redress against discrimination. Discrimination is recognised under nine grounds, namely, gender, marital status, family status, sexual orientation, religion, age, disability, race and membership of the Traveller community.

I wish to concentrate on the position of the Traveller community and to outline some of the important issues which must be addressed in a practical and meaningful way to underpin equality for Travellers. We live in a time of rapid social change and we see a greatly increased diversity of peoples who have their origin in other countries. In trying to adapt to these circumstances, there is a danger we may overlook a community which has deep historic roots in Irish society.

We all recognise many of the problems which occur around issues such as the provision of halting sites. We are all aware of conflicts between Travellers and settled people. For some people, their awareness of Travellers is derived almost entirely from such situations. Reporting in the media also highlights negative images. It is not surprising, therefore, that attitudes characterised by suspicion and fear persist both among Traveller and settled peoples. Many Travellers continue to live on the margins of mainstream society. Young Travellers do not, in general, enjoy anything like the same range of life choices available to their settled counterparts.

I acknowledge that Travellers have been subject to persistent discrimination and social exclusion for many generations. As Minister with responsibility for equality issues, I am very conscious that pursuing equality is not simply about reacting to discrimination and prejudice. We also need to give positive support to groups and communities in our society which face particular disadvantage.

In the wider equality arena, we have seen additional supports for people with disabilities through the national disability strategy incorporating the Disability Act 2005. The national women's strategy is a comprehensive statement of the issues involved in the continuing pursuit of gender equality. In regard to Travellers, there also have been a number of important strategic measures and instruments, the first of which was the report of the Task Force on the Traveller Community. After exhaustive consultation with stakeholders, the task force, chaired by Mr. Justice Fergus Flood, produced a comprehensive set of actions and objectives in its 1995 report. My Department chaired the Traveller monitoring committee which reported on the implementation of the task force report. By the time the monitoring committee gave its second progress report in December 2005, many of the task force recommendations had been implemented. These included the enactment of equal status legislation, which gives explicit protection against discrimination to Travellers. In addition to an overarching monitoring committee, there also have been separate consultative structures supporting policy development in respect of Traveller health, education and accommodation. Following on the last national partnership agreement, Towards 2016, a new national advisory body was created based on a renewed commitment from the social partners to give "concentrated attention" to pursuing progress for Travellers. In line with best international practice, the new national Traveller monitoring and advisory committee operates independently of Departments. This committee was inaugurated by the Taoiseach earlier this year under the Chairmanship of Mr. Kevin Bonner, the former Secretary General of the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment. The committee includes a broader representation of Travellers than the old monitoring committee which it replaces. In addition to the principal national Traveller organisations, there are a number of other prominent Traveller representatives. A quarter of the committee's membership is composed of Traveller representatives. Already, it is playing an important role in distilling the views and advice of stakeholders.

The Government commits very significant financial resources to Traveller-specific programmes. In recent years this has been running at well over €100 million per annum. About half of this goes on Traveller accommodation and much of the remainder is spent in the education sector. Despite sustained funding over many years and the work of the various consultative bodies to which I have referred, the rate of progress has been somewhat disappointing. There has been an obvious need for greater progress and more effective delivery of services and supports by State agencies. Responding to this, a high level group on Traveller issues was established at the request of the Taoiseach.

The high level group is composed of senior officials from Departments and other State agencies. It should not be regarded as a replacement or a duplication of the work of other committees. It is working in a very focused way to improve the performance of State agencies in delivering their services for Irish Travellers. The work of the high level group is supported by a very firm commitment from the Taoiseach and the Government to drive forward the delivery of more effective services. The core objective proposed by the high level group is to ensure effective inter-agency co-operation using the structures of the city and county development boards. This arrangement is closely allied to meaningful consultation with Travellers and their representatives at local level. In March of last year, the Government endorsed the approach proposed by the high level group. This has led to each city and county development board establishing a Traveller inter-agency group to implement the Government-approved strategy. My Department and the high level group are keeping a close eye on developments. I am conscious that in some areas, there is much more tangible progress than in others. We are working with specialist bodies like Pobal who have vast experience in local and community development. We are also using the expertise of the Institute of Public Administration to help highlight the most effective approaches to management and administrative processes.

The work of the Traveller inter-agency groups incorporates the full range of public services, including law enforcement. Sometimes this is viewed as a separate issue. However, it is clear to me that effective law enforcement and building positive community relations require full co-operation from all stakeholders. Much has been made in the media of reports of crime among Travellers. I have no problem in also applying the equality principle to law enforcement. Therefore, anyone who commits a crime should expect to be dealt with through the criminal justice system. However, we must also remember that many of those most affected by crime committed by Travellers are other Travellers. This can occur through intimidation and obstructing access by service providers to particular localities. It is particularly true in the way that negative stereotypes can be reinforced to the detriment of decent, law abiding Travellers.

The Traveller community has had to deal with significant disadvantage and discrimination over many generations. Like everyone else, Travellers have had to cope with the very rapid social and economic changes that have occurred in Ireland in recent years. While these changes have brought many benefits, the pace of change has created its own difficulties. Many traditional occupations have died out, both for Travellers and settled people. There has been increasing pressure on older family and community structures. Young people, in particular, are subject to a range of influences which older generations did not experience. Unfortunately, the modern scourges of drug use and youth suicide affect Travellers as much as the settled community.

While Ireland has gone through an economic boom, it is fair to say that the full benefits of this have not been felt by many in the Traveller community. It is often said that a rising tide lifts all boats but we sometimes forget that not everyone has a boat. People with limited access to employment generally experience corresponding limits on the range of life choices which are open to them. It is worth noting that the idea of supportive positive action is included in the original employment equality legislation of 1998 in respect of Travellers, people with disabilities and those over 50 years of age. The concept was extended in the Equality Act of 2004 to encompass all of the nine grounds laid down in the legislation. In practical terms, promoting equality implies that we must be ready to support an environment where everyone has a fair chance to make the most of their abilities. While I am here, I will take the opportunity to mention that a serious effort is being made in some areas to rectify a wrong that exists and has existed in this country for a long time. The best example I have seen in the few months in which I have been in the job is the very hands-on approach taken by the county manager of South Dublin County Council, Joe Horan, who has provided wonderful opportunities for Travellers, as well as the respect they have for him and the co-operation and interaction that takes place on a regular basis. It is a great example to other local authorities in respect of what can be done. I would like to see some of the work and success enjoyed by South Dublin County Council being replicated around the country. If this council can be so successful, there is no reason similar results cannot be achieved everywhere else in the country.

In pursuing positive action, an essential link has to be made in the progression from education and training to employment. Retention in education is a continuing issue for Traveller families and a minority of Traveller children progress as far as the junior certificate.

I had the pleasure last week of attending a play written by a Traveller. It was almost a one-man show by Michael Collins whom some Senators might remember from "Glenroe". Apart from being a wonderful play, it contained a wonderful message. He explained to people how they needed to stay in education as long as possible in order to maximise their chances in life. It is a wonderful sketch and I hope it can be shown in as many parts of Ireland as possible. When one hears a successful Traveller explaining matters to and advising people, it is all the more meaningful. Last week's performance was a once-off which had the support of South Dublin County Council but we will make every effort to ensure it travels around the country and that other people are given the opportunity to see it.

I realise that there are many complex issues involved and I am encouraged that we have a comprehensive strategy to address these in the report and recommendations for a Traveller education strategy, which was published last year. This was the product of an intensive engagement between the education services, Traveller representatives and other stakeholders. The Department of Education and Science is leading the implementation of this strategy which will be of vital importance. We will continue to find it difficult to motivate young Travellers to remain in education unless they can be convinced that it will lead to meaningful employment and a reasonable income. I am aware of the views expressed by Traveller representatives that discrimination in entering the workplace is a continuing barrier for Travellers even though they may have the relevant skills and qualifications. I am also aware that this form of discrimination can be expressed very subtly — "thanks for your application, but the job is already gone". Unfortunately, this is the news to which so many Travellers have had to listen for a long number of years and is something we cannot tolerate or allow to continue.

By way of contrast, I would like to highlight some of the successful employment initiatives which have taken place recently. These have been based on an inter-agency approach, both at local and national level. A number of local authorities, in particular, South Dublin County Council and Clare County Council have opened up new routes into employment and enterprise for Travellers. This has resulted in direct employment in the local authorities and Travellers setting up their own businesses. The HSE is also building on the work of its Traveller primary health care programme. Recently it produced a new tool kit to promote further employment opportunities in the health service.

A further initiative was the Traveller internship programme in the Civil Service. A few weeks ago, I had the pleasure of participating with the Taoiseach in an award ceremony for successful participants. Under this programme 23 young Travellers gained valuable work experience. Some performed clerical duties while others engaged in general operative work with the Office of Public Works. The participants were enabled to develop a range of abilities, including computer skills, personal communications and team working skills. Some have gone on to other employment in both the public and private sectors. Others have opted to seek further education. Within public bodies, news of this programme and the local authority initiatives is having a ripple effect and further employment opportunities are emerging for Travellers.

I hope the social partners in the private sector will be increasingly involved in future initiatives to support Travellers in the workplace. We have already developed some of the supports that may be needed in this regard. It is very encouraging that FÁS has implemented a number of special initiatives in support of Travellers over the past two years, located in Clare, Cork, Dublin and Galway. These initiatives involved 200 people from the Traveller community and included almost 50 employment and enterprise opportunities. I hope this work will produce a coherent training strategy that will have an ongoing impact in all areas of the country.

It is nice to have some good news to report and the news is not just that people who might not have considered mainstream employment previously are now in the workforce. It is also about Travellers and settled people working together and developing some mutual appreciation and understanding. Positive action on employment is not just about economic progress. It is about breaking down barriers of suspicion and fear and moving towards inclusion and equality.

More initiatives will be needed to solve the many serious problems that remain. There continue to be problems with the delivery of accommodation and the general health status of the Traveller community. The important aspect of the employment initiatives is that it shows what can be achieved with a collaborative approach from State agencies and Traveller community representatives.

Since the 1995 report of the task force on the Traveller community, Ireland has become a much more diverse and faster moving society. An essential objective must be opening up mainstream economic and social activities to participation by Travellers. This should not mean that Travellers have to sacrifice their own distinctive culture and traditions. I hope it will mean that Travellers, like others, will adapt and re-invent their way of life to participate as equals in 21st century Ireland.

I referred earlier to necessary and helpful legislation. This is important but attitudes must also change. In modern Ireland we cannot allow what happened before, when Travellers were discriminated against in a despicable manner. Members of these Houses have a role to play and must show leadership to change attitudes that exist and provide equal opportunities for all. I thank Senators for their attention and I look forward to their contributions.

Eugene Regan (Fine Gael)
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I wish to share time with Senator Liam Twomey.

I thank the Minister of State for providing an overview of the matter and an outline of the structures. We agree on the objective of promoting equality for the Travellers. The report has no measurements of the position in health and education nor Government targets for the next five years. There is greater recognition of the principle of equality and its application to the Traveller community. There is a greater recognition of the distinct cultural and social grouping the Traveller community constitutes. As a former Cathaoirleach of Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council I have seen specific programmes such as accommodation and social inclusion programmes. There are good relations between bodies that represent the Traveller community at local authority level. The Minister of State has alluded to accommodation, one of the most fundamental programmes required to assist the Traveller community. These programmes are always contentious but local councillors have taken responsibility and have approved sites for Traveller accommodation in their local authority areas.

Fine Gael has stressed the need for acceleration of local accommodation plans of local authorities and access to the justice system. Discrimination and equality are essentially flip sides of the same coin. Promotion of equality is the correct approach to this issue rather than seeing it as a fight against discrimination. Positive support for education must be targeted, measured and precisely specified.

We do not have up-to-date figures for the health status of the Traveller community. The most recent figures show a higher rate of infant mortality and lower life expectancy for the Traveller community. These should be measured and we should be able to track changes and the effect of policies adopted and expenditures incurred to see if we are achieving results. The Minister of State referred to access to employment and the local authorities are to the forefront in providing young Travellers with an opportunity to access employment.

There have been many examples of serious criminal acts by members of the Traveller community, which reflect badly and unfairly on the community. These are isolated incidents and it is unfortunate if they stigmatise the whole community and set back the effort of promoting equality and recognising the need to support the community. Despite the difficulties and problems there is greater public appreciation at local and national level of the need to assist the community in promoting equality in health, education and employment.

With rights come responsibilities, which applies to the settled community as much as the Traveller community. The Traveller community needs to have a greater appreciation of its obligations to society, whether in upholding the standard of accommodation provided or having a greater appreciation of the rights of neighbours. There must be appreciation on both sides of the problems that arise when decisions are made on the location of halting sites or settled accommodation. Law enforcement is another issue. People in the Traveller community are victims of crimes committed by Travellers but that does not change the issue. I accept that this is a difficult area but we should not take a particular view in respect of it simply because Travellers are affected. The position is similar to that which obtains with regard to crime in inner city areas, namely, that it is other gangland criminals who are affected. I do not wish to make a comparison between the two but perhaps we do not take this matter as seriously as we should. However, I reiterate that an issue exists in respect of law enforcement.

As the Minister of State indicated, there is a need to build positive community relations and promote better understanding on both sides. Fine Gael is fully committed to furthering the principle of equality and the implementation of the latter within the Traveller community. My party supports many of the measures that have been put in place.

I commend all those organisations that work with the Traveller community. I have interfaced with some of these at local authority level and they do a wonderful job in representing the Traveller community and trying to provide the vital link between it and the authorities engaged in assisting it.

Liam Twomey (Fine Gael)
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We should always be realistic with regard to what we say in this Chamber. As a politician and a doctor, I have had a great deal of contact with the Traveller community. If there is one thing I admire about members of this community, it is that they say things as they are and are not disposed to the patronising "we know what is best for you" attitude displayed towards them. There was a certain element of the latter in the Minister of State's contribution. He talked down to members of the Traveller community and stated that all the recommendations of the 1996 report were implemented. If that is the case, why will we be obliged to concentrate our attention on resolving problems within the Traveller community in the coming years?

The Minister of State said that the provision of funding has failed to achieve the required outcomes. Basically, he admitted that the Government has failed utterly to achieve any of its objectives in the context of catering for the needs of the Traveller community. That is the way members of the Traveller community like to hear about matters.

Seán Power (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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They are as constructive as ever.

Liam Twomey (Fine Gael)
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They like to be told it straight and do not like the nonsense of people talking down to them.

There is a major problem with regard to health issues in the Traveller community.

Seán Power (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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If the Senator is going to quote what I said, will he do it in an honest manner?

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator Twomey, without interruption.

Liam Twomey (Fine Gael)
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If the Minister of State wants me to be constructive, I will oblige him. I notice he has got into the habit of checking his text messages during the contributions of Opposition Members. I will try to prevent him from doing so by speaking up somewhat.

It is estimated that the level of diabetes among Travellers is double that which obtains in the settled community. There are also major problems with regard to alcohol consumption and infant mortality within the Traveller community. The measures that work best are those which afford Travellers respect. For example, the HSE runs a programme in New Ross on which young Traveller women are taught about basic parenting issues, such as how to look after children, how to check their temperatures, how to recognise when they are ill, etc. These young women are taught by other Travellers, not officials of the HSE, doctors or nurses. Travellers are of the view that this is an excellent programme.

Travellers want accommodation and access to health care. We could work hard towards achieving what they desire in respect of these issues. Some of the organisations representing Travellers, especially those at national level, are inclined to be of the view that they are above the real issues relating to the Travelling community. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform outlined that clearly when he criticised an organisation regarding the way it conducted itself in respect of the Roma gypsies on the M50. The majority of Traveller organisations, especially those at local level, are working for the interests of members of the community they represent. The Minister of State should work with them and he might arrive back here in ten years' time with a programme that achieved some success. He must admit — I ask him not to insult my intelligence in this regard — that the programme relating to the previous report has not worked well, despite the amount of money spent in respect of it.

The Minister of State must also be realistic with regard to the current position. He referred to the Equal Status Act. To some degree, the latter occasionally drives a wedge between the settled and Traveller communities. Certain individuals chose to abuse the provisions of the Act in an attempt to get away with engaging in criminal activity and anti-social behaviour. If we are going to protect the decent, honest members of the Traveller community, we should speak to them in realistic terms and not patronise them. We should highlight what is succeeding and what is being done right. However, we should be honest when things are not working out. We must also not be afraid to indicate when we witness behaviour which is not becoming of a civilised society.

I must be critical of the Minister of State in respect of another point, namely, when he said "This should not mean that Travellers have to sacrifice their own distinctive culture and traditions." On each occasion on which a society is radically changed — our society has undergone such change in the past 20 years — there will be changes to its culture and traditions. The position is the same for the Traveller community. Travellers acknowledge that there will be changes to their culture. The Minister of State should not insult them by making comments such as that to which I refer. He should state that there will be changes and that we can all learn to deal with them as they happen.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Minister of State and thank him for his enlightened contribution. When I was a boy, Travellers used to frequent rural areas. They were welcome in people's houses, were usually given dinner and on many occasions were provided with accommodation, perhaps in a shed or barn. There was mutual respect between the two communities.

A significant amount has been done in recent years. In my opinion, this is a two-way programme. The Government, other agencies and the equality and equal status legislation can only do so much. There must be a fair interaction on both sides.

Accommodation is one of the major issues facing Travellers. Even though people will argue that the difficulties are more acute in certain areas, I am pleasantly surprised by the progress that has been made in that regard in recent years. It should be acknowledged that there was a significant increase — in the region of 7% or 8% — in the number of Traveller families between 2000 and 2005 and that, year on year, the position relating to Traveller accommodation has improved. The Minister of State, his departmental officials and local authorities were responsible for the latter.

I do not wish to be parochial but I am aware of a Traveller family in my county which, on six occasions, was offered accommodation of various types — from a five-bedroom house to a significant parcel of land — to try to encourage it to abandon the unauthorised site it was occupying. The family in question, for whatever reason, refused all offers of accommodation. I tried to persuade its members that they should take up the offer. The local authority, councillors and various agencies also did their utmost to try to intercede and help but unfortunately our efforts came to naught.

It would be remiss of the Seanad to fail to recognise a number of areas in respect of which progress has been made. Departmental statistics from November 2006 indicate that approximately 40% of Travellers were occupying standard housing, including voluntary housing, in the region of 12% were in private rented accommodation and between 8% to 8.5% were in group housing schemes. It is regrettable that a significant number — the figure then stood at 629 — remained on unauthorised sites.

Over the years large numbers of Travellers used their own resources to provide themselves with accommodation. They should be encouraged in this regard. It is obligatory for every local authority to provide properly serviced halting sites. It is not that long ago since my constituency of Cork South-West had no authorised halting site. It now has three or four and I welcome this support which allows people to have basic facilities such as sewerage, water and electricity on these sites. Local authorities and other housing groups make significant attempts to accommodate Travellers who wish to be housed and give them a slot in the community.

The previous speaker, who is a medical doctor, has experience from a medical perspective and I will not state he is wrong or right. I presume the Senator gave us the facts as he sees them. I would like to see progress, whether through education or encouragement at local level, in getting young male and female Travellers involved in sports such as soccer, football or rugby, which people state is elitist but I do not mind. The problem is not as acute in a rural area such as west Cork as it would be in the outreaches of Dublin or other such areas. Cork, and west Cork in particular, has a minority sport which is often forgotten, namely, road bowling. It is covered by Bol Chumann na hÉireann which is affiliated to Cumann Lúthchleas Gael.

I was involved in seeking funding for a pilot scheme which is being established in Dunmanway whereby an indoor road bowling alley of 50 m in length will be opened. When one shoots the bowl it will return through a spring mechanism. Traditionally, Travellers have been involved in this sport. Road bowling is popular in Armagh, west Cork and Mayo and I believe an all-Ireland was held last year or the year before in Wexford. I accept it is a minority sport.

Children must be attracted to sports such as road bowling, Gaelic football or other games at a young age. Having children who grew up in my home town with Traveller children at infant level and through national school and secondary school, I have no doubt many of them are treated well by schools and the education system. It is a pity young Travellers have such a large drop-out rate at junior certificate level.

It is also pity more engagement does not occur when sport has a camaraderie. Those who participate in road bowling are well treated, well catered for and looked after with no discrimination by Bol Chumann na hÉireann. Travellers have won county championships and they have also contested in international events. I would like to see progress made in this area. A pilot scheme could be commenced to get children aged seven, eight, nine or ten more involved in sport in their communities. International football and large clubs such as Manchester United, Arsenal or Liverpool show us that it does not matter what country one is from or what is one's creed or belief as one will become a hero to young people if one is good at one's sport.

As someone with experience and who had a family member involved in teaching the Travelling community in Dublin for many years, I have a word of warning with regard to accommodation. I would hate to see a ghettoisation with a large concentration of halting sites, caravans or several Traveller families in one housing estate. That is a recipe for disaster. It is also a warning for dealing with discrimination of another type with regard to the influx of refugees and asylum seekers, where people are inclined to be ghettoised. It is important that Traveller accommodation is dealt with fairly. It should not mean Travellers are all lumped into the one estate because they are Travellers. This can create problems.

If I am honest, my experience as a local authority member of dealing with the Traveller community is mixed. As a previous speaker mentioned, modern society's obligations towards the Traveller community and responsibilities under legislation not to discriminate must be met by responsibilities of the Traveller community towards the settled community and greater interaction by the Traveller community with the settled community.

It is a misconception that the settled community has a "hands-up, hands-off" approach to the Traveller community. This is not the case from my experience, coming from a humble background. The relationship between education and the Traveller community works both ways. One can go so far to assist and I am in favour of ensuring they receive fair play, do not experience discrimination, obtain better education and housing and become involved in sport. However, one must also urge caution that we must have better engagement and rapport and a better sense of responsibility and fairness from the Traveller community to the settled community. This would be a great achievement.

David Norris (Independent)
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I wish to share my time with Senator Joe O'Toole.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Is that agreed? Agreed.

David Norris (Independent)
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I welcome the Minister of State to the House and the positive statements he made. However, a great deal must be done. The Government's slogan is "A lot done, more to do".

Alex White (Labour)
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It was the slogan of the previous Government.

David Norris (Independent)
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Well, what about it.

Quite a lot more must be done with regard to Travellers. We have a lack of sufficient data, particularly health data, and what we have is extremely worrying. Mortality rates and life expectancy among the Traveller community are dismal when compared to the control figures for the general population. The employment rate for Travellers between 25 and 44 years of age is 16% compared to 79% for the settled community. That is an enormous disparity.

Travellers feel particularly strongly about the Government's obdurate refusal to regard them as a group having its own ethnic identity and the refusal to recognise Travellers as a minority ethnic group. This is probably because it would put teeth into the fine sentiments of the Government and give a legal point to them. This was recommended by the Irish Human Rights Commission, the National Consultative Committee on Racism and Interculturalism, the Equality Authority and all Traveller organisations. It would be a democratic exercise for the Government to take this on board and at last recognise Travellers as an ethnic group.

We could spend the evening debating whether Travellers are an ethnic group. They have certain linguistic characteristics, an historical and cultural background and a different way of life. To some extent, the Government already acknowledges the distinctive culture of Travellers and assisted in establishing Pavee Point. It also acknowledges that Travellers are a separate social grouping. This means Travellers being a separate cultural and social grouping is acknowledged by the Government. The next logical step would be to acknowledge them as a minority ethnic group. That would also help in terms of translating stated policy into practice. Many observers believe it is invariably the Travellers who are expected to change rather than requiring society to accommodate a group which is already recognised as different.

A number of requests have been made which are worthy of consideration. The establishment of an ombudsman for Travellers has been sought. We already have ombudsmen for this, that and the other and it could help to resolve the sometimes awkward relations that exist between the settled and Traveller communities, the fault for which can fall on either side. I recall when playing fields were invaded and people were blackmailed by members of the Traveller community who asked for payment to leave. An ombudsman would be a useful institution in that regard.

I have a number of problems with the disgraceful way the Defamation Bill is scuttling through the House on Committee Stage, thereby disbarring 35 out of 60 Senators from speaking at all on Second Stage. A draft code of conduct developed by the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform states: "Newspapers and periodicals shall not publish material intended or likely to cause grave offence or stir up hatred against an individual or group on the basis of their race, religion, nationality, colour, ethnic origin, gender, sexual orientation, marital status, disability, illness or age." Why is the Traveller community left out if the Government does not accept it is covered under "ethnic origin"? If it has not accepted the Traveller community as a minority ethnicity, it must be included separately.

I speak with a degree of authority on this because I pioneered the sexual orientation clauses in Irish legislation and, from the beginning, I coupled them with membership of the Traveller community. Every time legislation was gender or human rights proofed, sexual orientation and membership of the Traveller community were included. Why then have Travellers been excluded given that the matter in question seems to place them at a great disadvantage?

The rights of Travellers under international agreements, such as the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and the European Convention on Human Rights, which was recently incorporated into law, exist on paper but do not mean much in practice. They may, for example, have the right to vote under Article 25 of the covenant but they do not have the right in practice because of the attitudes of local authorities. They are denied accommodation or given inappropriate housing and they are not registered by the very local authority which in some instances is at war with them. According to a document with which I have been supplied:

This dynamic is compounded when the agency that has failed to deal with your accommodation issues either appropriately or effectively is also the agency with responsibility for the electoral register. For example, in order for Travellers living on the roadside or in unofficial accommodation to register to vote the Local Authority must acknowledge that they are resident in the area.

I have raised the practical issues I would like the Minister to address, namely, the Press Council, an ombudsman, the right to vote and implementing in reality those rights that appear to be conferred by the incorporation of the European Convention on Human Rights and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.

Joe O'Toole (Independent)
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I thank Senator Norris for sharing his time with me. I have been involved in this issue for many years. One of my assentors for my very first election campaign was Nan Joyce, a spokesperson at the time for the Traveller movement. There is a need to ensure we take the proper approach on the Traveller issue. I listened carefully to the Minister of State's speech but did not think it as patronising as others appear to have found it. It touched on issues which I consider important and the only aspect which I could possibly find patronising was the comment about television programmes. The criticism that not enough has been done is important, however.

We must investigate the issue of suicide within the Traveller community because suicide rates among Travellers are now four times higher than in the rest of the population. I would like to set targets in areas such as infant mortality, suicide and alcoholism, all of which have high rates within the Traveller community.

Difficulties have arisen with various local authorities but it should be acknowledged that Fine Gael has been quicker than any other party to recognise the importance of this issue. On a number of occasions over the past three years, its leader has hauled in errant councillors who went beyond the bounds of acceptable language when dealing with Travellers.

David Norris (Independent)
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Hear, hear.

Joe O'Toole (Independent)
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Incidents arose in Galway some years ago, and Tipperary and Wexford in more recent times, whereby unacceptable comments were made about Travellers.

The idea of an ombudsman to deal with issues pertaining to the Traveller community is useful and sensible. However, having been a supporter of Travellers' rights for as long as I can recall and having fought to ensure they received education and proper facilities in schools, I continue to disagree on the issue of culture, subculture and ethnicity. We should debate that important issue but the Minister of State did not refer to it in his contribution. My point of view, that there is an Irish culture with a variety of subcultures, is not popular. People from Kerry or GAA activists thus belong to subcultures of the Irish culture. When I make this argument to members of the Traveller community, they disagree with me, which they are entitled to do. However, it is like apartheid to say they belong to a different culture from Irish culture. I do not mean to be demeaning when I say they are a subculture of the Irish culture but to point out that other matters are thereby brought into consideration.

Traveller groups often argue they are too often forced to change to accommodate others. I agree with the generality of that argument but not with the subtext that Travellers do not have to change at all. Everybody must change. I have argued with Traveller groups about the example of a mother who wanted to be settled in a house rather than on the road. That debate needs to take place within the Traveller community. I accept the argument that the State should be supportive, within reason, where Travellers choose a nomadic lifestyle but we are afraid to address these issues. I do not want educational standards for Traveller children to drop, but if they move too much they will miss out on education and thereby encounter significant difficulties as they grow older.

The current spokespersons for the Traveller community are extraordinarily articulate. It is great to see them argue on radio and television in the way that people spoke for them 30 years ago. However, a debate is needed, which means that the Minister of State will raise points with which they will disagree and all sides will have to change their positions.

We need to address issues such as suicide, alcoholism, education, housing and halting sites, and targets should be set in respect of each. The original plan for local authority housing and support for the Traveller community has not been implemented throughout the country. Some authorities, such as South Dublin County Council, are superb but others are not. Every time they do something, they are criticised by people in the settled community.

Dan Boyle (Green Party)
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I wish to share my time with Senator Walsh.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Is that agreed? Agreed.

Dan Boyle (Green Party)
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I was first elected to a local authority in 1991, the first year of former President Mary Robinson's term of office. The platform on which President Robinson was elected included a promise to instigate sponsorship of an architect's scheme for accommodation for the travelling community. This marked one of the first occasions I was exposed, as an elected representative, to the issue of housing Travellers. While the scheme proved successful, unfortunately the targets set out at the time in Government policy were not reached either then or subsequently. Despite the efforts of successive Governments, we have failed to meet targets on accommodation. I remember Deputy Liz McManus, in her role as Minister of State at the Department of the Environment, introducing another accommodation scheme for Travellers which, unfortunately, did not attain the desired objectives.

When speaking about the role of the Traveller community in society we must acknowledge it has fewer basic services available to it than other sections of the community. For example, Travellers face problems in the areas of housing, life expectancy and educational attainment but society fails to recognise these problems because of prejudice and ignorance. I note the Order of Business featured a pre-emptive discussion about the role of local authority members as electors to the House and the importance of ensuring we do not upset them. Sometimes the House has a duty to speak out when local authority members step out of line and express sentiments based purely on ignorance and prejudice. Senators do not fulfil this duty often enough.

In acknowledging the increase in the resources made available to address problems in the Traveller community and improvements in the quality of Traveller housing, we must also accept that a considerable amount of work remains. While I am loth to admit it, the ignorance and prejudice surrounding this issue necessitate a bipartisan approach of the kind referred to by Senator Harris on the Order of Business. To do otherwise would invite those with small minds and narrow visions to dominate a debate on an issue for which we, as a society, have collective responsibility. While having statements in the House in a proper context could help in this regard, ultimately it is a matter of having the collective will and necessary resources to meet the targets we have failed to attain thus far. If we have any conscience, as members of an elected assembly, we would not allow these problems to persist.

Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
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I thank Senator Boyle for sharing time.

Undoubtedly, the Traveller community is afflicted by serious issues. Senators all have their own experience of the issue of Travellers, particularly at local government level. I recall that as a young councillor in the mid-1970s I and others championed the cause of a few Traveller families in our area. As a result, three Traveller families were housed in one housing allocation. One was an elderly couple who moved into a house and were probably not given the support they needed to manage, having previously lived in poor conditions in a caravan. Nonetheless, the move resulted in a sea change in their quality of life. The second family were not given support either and proceeded systematically to dismantle a large part of the house for firewood. This was a reflection on the manner in which we managed some of these issues, albeit a long time ago. Some of those who speak eloquently about rights and so forth are not as active in offering support when it becomes necessary to provide additional services which are essential to the well-being of families.

Shortly after moving into the house the third family accommodated in the scheme bought up a large number of other properties in the area. This conditioned me to ask whether families being housed had the necessary resources to provide their own accommodation. This is an ongoing issue because the travelling community, like the settled community, includes very wealthy people and people who require support. It is not always easy to determine the group to which a person or family belongs.

I was pleasantly surprised to learn that only 22% of the 7,691 Traveller families in the State do not live in houses. This is a significant achievement as it is fair to assume that a significant proportion of those living in caravans on halting sites, both authorised and otherwise, refuse offers of housing because they want to maintain their nomadic way of life. Every effort should be made and pressure should be applied to change this way of life because in many cases it is not good for the health of children. Many health problems can be ascribed to poor accommodation and a lack of education. Even within the settled community it is accepted that people in the higher socioeconomic bracket tend to look after their health and, as a consequence, have longer life expectancy and enjoy better health.

There is also an educational element to this debate. I welcome the prioritisation of pre-schools in the Traveller community. Frequently, parents in the Traveller community do not have an education and consequently do not pass on to their children the important message that education is a priority. Pre-schooling is an important consideration in this regard. Senator Twomey mentioned a scheme in place in New Ross. The VECs have undertaken some tremendous initiatives in this area, doing great work for children and in the area of adult education and literacy.

I applaud employment initiatives for Travellers, particularly the Civil Service internship programme for Travellers which has given members of the Traveller community work experience in the Civil Service. As a result, they become more attractive and employable for employers in the private sector. More work should be done in that area.

I fully subscribe to Senator O'Donovan's argument on the issue of involving Travellers in sport as a means of offering a way to integrate in society. It also offers networking opportunities which open up avenues to education, employment and other areas that may not be available to Travellers.

I will spend some time discussing the issue of crime.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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The Senator's time has concluded.

Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
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A number of Senators noted the responsibility of society to the Traveller community. The corollary of this is that the Traveller community has a responsibility to society. This responsibility is not always exercised by members of the Traveller community and some of those who represent it.

Alex White (Labour)
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I welcome the Minister of State's statement to which I and other Senators listened carefully. He did not, as Senator Twomey claimed, state that all the task force recommendations from 1995 had been implemented. On the contrary, he indicated that many of them had been implemented. I would argue, however, that only some of the recommendations have been implemented.

The Minister of State was also fair in acknowledging that the rate of progress has been "somewhat disappointing". His judgment on this issue, with which we can only but agree, should be the starting and end point of our short debate. While more resources have been dedicated to areas such as Traveller accommodation, a massive amount of work remains to be done.

This is an unusual discussion because, not for the first time, Senators have noted the need for a bipartisan, cross-party approach to this issue. We hear similar remarks on practically every issue virtually every day. If some people have their way we will, at some point, push all the chairs in the Chamber together but it would still leave Government and Opposition sides.

Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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There would still be trouble.

Alex White (Labour)
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I disagree with the emphasis of some colleagues on the other side, although I endorse everything Senator Boyle said.

I must, however, respectfully disagree with some of what was said on this side of the House. I disagree with Senator Twomey that the Equal Status Act had the effect of driving a wedge between the Traveller community and wider society. That is wrong, although it may not be what he meant.

The equal status legislation, which was initiated by the Labour Party ten years ago but supported by all parties, was an important development for our society. It was the first serious step we took as a community and society to put the sorts of equality principles we espouse into legislation. It gave the State statutory benchmarks by which progress was to be made and scrutinised and put pressure on the providers of services to ensure they did not discriminate against any member of any group listed under nine prohibited grounds, most importantly against the Traveller community.

While Members of the House have different experiences and come to this issue from that point of view, I come to it as a former councillor, but also as a lawyer. I have acted in many cases where there has been manifest discrimination against members of the Traveller community with regard to employment and, in some cases, the provision of services. I take exception to the suggestion often made about abuse. Of course, abuses occur. With most forms of statutory protection, people sometimes see the opportunity to press a case that may not have merit. However, most of the cases I have seen have had merit, as do most of the cases raised with the Equality Authority and other bodies.

The level of discrimination seen in some of the examples raised in tribunals and elsewhere would sicken anybody, as would the level of naked prejudice that still exists in society. It exists across many of our respected institutions as well as in corner shops, hairdressers, pubs and elsewhere. I am not trying to tar everyone with the same brush, but we need to acknowledge, notwithstanding all the progress we have made, that there is still deep-rooted prejudice across society and it finds expression in discriminatory behaviour towards Travellers with regard to employment, and elsewhere. I do not lay this at the Minister's door; we have had a week talking about political accountability. However, the Government must be alive to the possibility of discrimination and take such measures as are necessary, prudent and correct to address and stand up to it.

A Senator on the Government side of the House made a point about councillors and public representatives making unacceptable statements. I agree with what he said, but there are others in public positions who do the same, including sometimes, members of the District Court bench. Some of these have made statements that are grossly unacceptable and they should be criticised in the House by the Minister. It is not acceptable for any public official, judge or otherwise, to make prejudicial remarks about members of any group, particularly Travellers.

It is true that many of the recommendations of the 1995 task force report have been implemented. The target was that by 2000, some 3,100 units of Traveller accommodation would be ready, 900 homes and 2,200 Traveller specific units, halting sites or group housing schemes. However, while the 900 houses have been provided, only 600 Traveller specific units have been provided. Another 1,500 Travellers, therefore, seek some form of permanent accommodation.

I do not want to misquote Senator Walsh, who has left, or any of my colleagues. The argument has arisen constantly in this debate that when accommodation is provided, it is not respected. The example is always given of the case where accommodation was given to people who damaged it or did not appear to be grateful for it. Seeking gratitude from the Traveller community is not what we should be about, although we want all groups working together. The benchmark of progress is not whether members of the Traveller community are grateful. Many Traveller families who live on the side of the road do not do so by choice, a fact I observed as a member of South Dublin County Council. I thank the Minister of State for what he said about that council, the management of which is very progressive. Traveller families do not choose to live on the side of the road without water or sanitation. It is the duty of the State and legislators to ensure proper provision for them by ensuring resources for local authorities to provide decent accommodation for people in that situation.

Accommodation is linked to the difficulty Travellers have obtaining employment. How could it be easy for a Traveller of any age to obtain employment without an address? Traveller organisations have often pointed out that without the benefit of an address, Travellers do not have access to employment.

I will wrap up as I know the Minister of State is anxious to make his response. I thank him for what he said and draw attention to his statement that the rate of progress has been somewhat disappointing. I agree with Senator O'Toole and others that we should have targets. It is all very well to talk about agencies — it can be difficult to get one's head around the various agencies and working groups — but we must set targets and try to achieve particular outcomes. What achievements on this would the Minister of State like to be able to report to us if he were to come back to us in a year's time?

Seán Power (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Senators for what were, in the main, constructive contributions. I acknowledge the lecture from Senator Twomey and thank Senator White for clarifying the situation. I will not go back over the ground I already covered.

I tried to give an honest assessment of the situation as I see it and mentioned that, despite the significant investment we have put in place, we have not achieved the progress we would like. We have put in place policies or schemes in a number of areas that have worked successfully. The plans require leadership and commitment. If we can be successful in some areas, there is no reason the same cannot be done everywhere.

I mentioned that the Civil Service internship was very successful. I spoke with a number of participants, but my words cannot express how much it meant to them to participate in a programme in which they felt it would have been impossible to participate some years ago. One of the participants later applied for a job and is now a full-time employee in a Department. Stories like that will inspire other Travellers to take the extra steps needed to succeed. There is no point in our asking the private sector to employ Travellers if we are not serious about doing it ourselves and providing opportunities for them.

While it is important to have in place legislation to protect against discrimination, we must focus on changing people's attitudes. It is incredible that while we might admire a family that decides to move to Wexford for three months of the year, our view changes dramatically when a Traveller family decides to live on the side of the road for 12 months of the year.

I listened attentively to what Senators had to say and will refer to a couple of points raised and questions asked. There are clear performance targets, particularly in the areas of accommodation and education. Senator Twomey mentioned the very successful primary health care programme. That is fully supported by the State, although it was his contention that the Government had failed in that regard. However that was one of the successful examples which, for some reason, he happened to point out even though he did not give us much credit for achieving success. I acknowledge the various comments on accommodation, inclusion and cultural activities. I agree we need to pay continuing attention to these areas.

Senator Norris raised the issue of information. An all-Ireland health study is commencing which will improve information significantly. However, the Senator is mistaken about the press council guidelines. They were not drafted by my Department. The press council is established independently. I understand the guidelines, currently drafted, are considered as a work in progress.

I am aware that Traveller organisations and others such as the Equality Authority have promoted a form of State recognition of Travellers as an ethnic group. The Government has taken the view that while Travellers are clearly an indigenous minority community there is no firm rationale for a specific ethnic recognition. Travellers already enjoy specific protection under equality legislation and there is special provision for local authorities to provide culturally appropriate accommodation for them.

The Government has prioritised practical policy implementation and it is difficult to see how recognition of ethnicity, whether in law or otherwise, would improve the day-to-day lives of Travellers in general. The equality legislation provides specific protection for Travellers against discrimination. It is uncertain if an additional recognition of ethnicity would add anything to the overall legal provision. The Council of Europe has, in relation to the framework convention on national minorities, acknowledged that the issue is of lesser significance due to the protections given in Irish equality laws.

I acknowledge that our social partners have agreed to work for greater progress for Travellers. It is important that there is now a significant dialogue among stakeholders in national consultative and advisory structures. In practical terms, the Government's approach is one which supports Travellers who are breaking out of old cycles of disadvantage. It is imperative that we support Travellers who are determined to seize new opportunities to improve their situations and that of their families. To do this requires sustained leadership and commitment, politically and at the top levels in public bodies. It is also about sustaining and improving the working relationships between the State agencies and the Travellers' representatives. There are significant challenges and significant opportunities. Concentrating on practical support measures will allow us to grasp those opportunities and face the many challenges successfully.

I would be more than happy to return to the House in 12 months' time when I guarantee I will be able to report major success on a number of fronts.