Joe O'Toole (Independent)

Incidents arose in Galway some years ago, and Tipperary and Wexford in more recent times, whereby unacceptable comments were made about Travellers.

The idea of an ombudsman to deal with issues pertaining to the Traveller community is useful and sensible. However, having been a supporter of Travellers' rights for as long as I can recall and having fought to ensure they received education and proper facilities in schools, I continue to disagree on the issue of culture, subculture and ethnicity. We should debate that important issue but the Minister of State did not refer to it in his contribution. My point of view, that there is an Irish culture with a variety of subcultures, is not popular. People from Kerry or GAA activists thus belong to subcultures of the Irish culture. When I make this argument to members of the Traveller community, they disagree with me, which they are entitled to do. However, it is like apartheid to say they belong to a different culture from Irish culture. I do not mean to be demeaning when I say they are a subculture of the Irish culture but to point out that other matters are thereby brought into consideration.

Traveller groups often argue they are too often forced to change to accommodate others. I agree with the generality of that argument but not with the subtext that Travellers do not have to change at all. Everybody must change. I have argued with Traveller groups about the example of a mother who wanted to be settled in a house rather than on the road. That debate needs to take place within the Traveller community. I accept the argument that the State should be supportive, within reason, where Travellers choose a nomadic lifestyle but we are afraid to address these issues. I do not want educational standards for Traveller children to drop, but if they move too much they will miss out on education and thereby encounter significant difficulties as they grow older.

The current spokespersons for the Traveller community are extraordinarily articulate. It is great to see them argue on radio and television in the way that people spoke for them 30 years ago. However, a debate is needed, which means that the Minister of State will raise points with which they will disagree and all sides will have to change their positions.

We need to address issues such as suicide, alcoholism, education, housing and halting sites, and targets should be set in respect of each. The original plan for local authority housing and support for the Traveller community has not been implemented throughout the country. Some authorities, such as South Dublin County Council, are superb but others are not. Every time they do something, they are criticised by people in the settled community.