Seanad debates
Tuesday, 8 March 2005
Order of Business.
2:30 pm
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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The Order of Business is No. 1, Social Welfare and Pensions Bill 2005 — Committee Stage, to be taken on the conclusion of the Order of Business and to conclude not later than 5.15 p.m., with the contributions of spokespersons not to exceed 15 minutes, those of other Senators not to exceed ten minutes and Senators may share time. Report and Final Stages of the Bill will be taken at 6.15 p.m. and will conclude not later than 8 p.m. There will be a sos from 5.15 p.m. to 6.15 p.m.
It has been said to me twice since we came into the ante-room and it would be marvellous if we could have business tomorrow morning and be free in the afternoon. However, the difficulty concerns ministerial availability. We can all be out canvassing in the morning rather than in the afternoon.
Michael Finucane (Fine Gael)
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The Cabinet is deliberating on the Travers report today so we do not yet know the final context. However, newspaper reports suggest the Tánaiste referred to systemic maladministration within the Department of Health and Children. It will be interesting to see how blame is apportioned and what degree of action takes place following this. If there was maladministration within the Department, effective action should be taken.
The report is likely to be published this evening. Given its implications, I ask the Leader to consider the feasibility of the report being debated in the House this week. Many people are asking questions on what is likely to happen with regard to residents in private and public nursing homes. Therefore, I and other Members would like to question the Minister in regard to what is likely to happen, whether the Statute of Limitations will apply, whether those in private nursing homes will be eligible as a result of the introduction in 2001 of medical cards for those over 70 years of age and many other questions. The Leader should consider the feasibility of rescheduling this week's business to accommodate discussion of the report with the Minister.
On another health-related issue, the three hallmarks of the health strategy as embodied by this Administration were supposed to be quality, fairness and equality of access. This morning, the accident and emergency unit at Cork University Hospital closed due to increased pressure.
Michael Finucane (Fine Gael)
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During the week, a prominent oncologist left the hospital leaving only one remaining oncologist. An accident and emergency unit has been lying idle for over a year. If we judge these events in the context of the three hallmarks, we have not achieved quality, fairness or easy access. There are other questions I would like to ask when the Tánaiste comes to the House because in focusing on the report, we may take our minds off other issues in regard to the health services.
I congratulate Willie Walsh on his senior appointment with British Airways. It says a lot.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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It is not in order to congratulate from the floor of the House. One can praise a person but others might have different views and it would not be fair to the person when he is not present. I call Senator O'Toole.
Joe O'Toole (Independent)
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Given what we often discussed and the points made in the House during the debate on Seanad reform, it would be wrong to ignore the Travers report this week. We should debate it tonight after taking the Social Welfare and Pensions Bill or tomorrow morning. We have space to deal with it at either time and I would like to hear the Leader's view on this. Today's business can proceed as planned and I do not propose any change to it. I do not foresee the slightest difficulty in debating the report this evening or tomorrow morning and it is crucial we do so.
The point made by Senator Finucane is crucial. This will be the test to ascertain where blame lies and how it is dealt with, who is responsible for what went wrong, where we go from here and what conclusions or recommendations can be extrapolated from the report, if it contains conclusions, which I presume it must. It is important for Members to have a view on this matter at an early stage. If the report is published this afternoon, there is not the slightest reason we cannot debate it today and put the matter on the record.
I wish to refer to a related matter. We have faced a long court action and much discussion, argument and controversy about nursing homes. With regard to the question of unqualified and untrained teachers in national schools, the Government is walking itself into another difficult situation and leaving itself open to legal action. The requirement in the Constitution that the State provide for free primary education implies free professional primary education. Now that teachers are available there is no longer any excuse for not having fully qualified, fully trained teachers in primary schools. We should ask the Minister to attend the House to discuss this. It is only a matter of time before the Government faces a class action on a constitutional basis alleging it is not complying with its constitutional imperative in this area.
Kathleen O'Meara (Labour)
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No doubt the Cathaoirleach is aware that this is International Women's Day. The Leader and I have come from a meeting with an extraordinary group of women, the McCartney sisters and Robert McCartney's partner, who are in Dublin today. It was a privilege to meet them. I applaud their courage and admire their stance in the cause of justice and truth. The leadership they have given has been awesome and is an example to all of us. I am sure all in this House support the work being done by the McCartney family not only in pursuing justice for their brother and partner but also in standing up for justice and truth on this island. That work gives us an opportunity to build a politics in Northern Ireland based on a foundation of democracy for the future.
Since this is International Women's Day I also ask the Leader to ask the Minister for Health and Children why BreastCheck, the national screening programme, has still not been fully rolled out. I am sure the Leader does not need reminding there are women throughout the country with early cancers now undetected because of the failure to roll out BreastCheck. I am in regular contact with the organisation and I know delays are being experienced. I know the Leader agrees that we must find out what is causing this scandalous delay.
I support the calls for an early debate on the Travers report. Even before its publication we know how important it is not only for administration in the Department of Health and Children but to consider why officialdom has failed, if that is the case, and has not acted. That is of crucial importance to administration in this country and it is critical that we debate it at the earliest opportunity.
John Dardis (Progressive Democrats)
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There is no doubt the Travers report is eagerly awaited and there is much speculation about its contents. It is also clear that the House should debate a report of such importance. It is worth pointing out, however, that tomorrow the House will consider the Health (Amendment) Bill 2005 for three hours on Second Stage. In effect that will become a debate on the Travers report if that report is available to us. I am sure many of the contributions will reflect that, so the proposed debate can in effect be held within the existing proposed business for tomorrow.
I understand the Cathaoirleach's stricture about congratulating people. Nevertheless, congratulations are due to David Gillick for winning the 400 m and Alistair Cragg for winning the 3,000 m in the European indoor athletics championships.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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That is not in order because such congratulations would be unending.
John Dardis (Progressive Democrats)
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It has been a matter of practice over the years to congratulate people who have brought home gold medals.
Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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I have no one to congratulate. A matter of major concern is that the Competition Authority has today found that the cost of insurance has been kept artificially high in Ireland. Worse, it found that barriers are preventing new entrants to the market. In 2003 and 2004 we rushed through legislation in this House to introduce very necessary reforms, on which there was all-party agreement, by means of the PIAB Act and the Civil Liability and Courts Act. That the Competition Authority has found today, two years later, that consumers are still overpaying, must be a matter of major concern to all of us and to everyone who has to pay insurance countrywide. The Leader might ask the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment how we could apply pressure to the insurance sector in order to reduce costs and charges to consumers. A number of Senators serve on the Joint Committee on Enterprise and Small Business which has already issued a report on the issue and another is forthcoming. The joint committee has discussed some worthwhile measures. However, the rapid escalation in insurance profits has not been matched by a corresponding reduction in premiums to consumers. Will the Leader arrange for the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment to come before the Seanad regarding this matter?
Camillus Glynn (Fianna Fail)
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I previously raised an issue about fishing of our inland waterways. I ask that the appropriate Minister come before the House to hear the views of Members pertaining to certain conclusive evidence reported in The Irish Times yesterday, that one of the most famous carp fisheries in the country outside of Mullingar, Gaulmoylestown Lake is being over-fished. The stock is being taken out without being replaced. This is a source of great worry to the local angling fraternity. I am sure Senator Dardis, who is a keen angler, and other Members will bear that out.
I am increasingly concerned about the increased incidence of type 2 diabetes. This condition now affects between 3% and 4% of the population and merits screening, such is the increase in its incidence. It is an extremely dangerous condition and has serious implications for the health services and sufferers. I ask the Leader to arrange for the two appropriate Ministers to come before the House at the earliest possible opportunity.
David Norris (Independent)
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I wish to comment on the Leader's statements. I think we all support the Leader in her struggles with Ministers. It is important that we make a stand as I have been in this House for nearly 20 years and cannot remember this sort of chopping and changing of dates. The Seanad used to meet at approximately the same time every week. It is difficult to have one's diary in order if our sitting days and times vary so much. I support Senator O'Rourke, who is a strong Leader. She referred to the issue whereby the Seanad meets at different times each day and each week. We will support the Leader if she seeks some kind of regularity.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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That is very kind of the Senator but I do not need it.
David Norris (Independent)
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If the Leader does not need our support, I would be grateful if the Seanad could have a more regular ordering of business.
Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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This is the time when we are meant to be here, is it not?
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator will have an opportunity to reply to Senator Norris later.
David Norris (Independent)
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It is unsatisfactory and unprofessional and does not suit the vast majority of Members. They would say the same on the Leader's side of the House in private.
I wish to raise the report of the Human Rights Commission and its observations about abortion. I know this is a very sensitive and delicate issue and no one wishes to re-run the abortion referenda. However, we did have a referendum which inserted wording into the Constitution which, to the detriment of the medical profession, has never been articulated in law as it should. The people have spoken so why do legislators not face up to the situation?
I refer to a study by a women named Catherine Conlon which deals with rogue counselling agencies that engage in intimidating women who have crisis pregnancies. They are not regulated because they do not offer the option of abortion information, so the Garda can do nothing about it. For example, there is a case of a woman who went in and thought she was going to receive dispassionate advice but was interviewed in a windowless basement room by a man who showed her a video of an abortion and photographs of an aborted foetus and then strung her along until it was too late for her to have the procedure.
David Norris (Independent)
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This is wrong. As legislators, we ought to look at and address that subject.
David Norris (Independent)
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I am looking for a debate on the report of the Human Rights Commission with particular regard to the legislative deficit. The people have told us what they want and it is in the Constitution, but we are afraid to deal with it.
I also wish to ask for a debate on the situation involving a family who went on air to publicise the difficulties they face with four autistic children. I heard that broadcast. Within a matter of days, the children had been taken from them by the health board and now they are being asked to undergo a psychiatric assessment. I would like to have a debate so that we can have some information on this issue. I have experienced both sides of the caring profession: the helpful, compassionate and professional side and the arrogant, ignorant and bullying side. I would like to know which side of the line the behaviour of the health board falls on. I believe it is the arrogant, ignorant and bullying side.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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There is a question of natural justice regarding some of the statements in the Travers report so we will wait and see if it will be approved and published. If it is published, we will have an opportunity to debate the issue in connection with the Bill before the House or at another date. I hope, Senator Finucane, you got through to the helpline.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Leyden must address his remarks through the Chair.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I reiterate my request of last week that the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform come to the House to discuss the regulations under the Solicitors (Amendment) Act 2002, which were signed on 7 November 2002. These regulations seemingly allow solicitors to advertise for business regarding nursing home claims. Certain politicians are also jumping on the bandwagon and calling public meetings. I will name these politicians and I will name and shame the two legal firms that are abusing the system and advertising on radio.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Leyden is seeking a debate but he cannot refer to anyone outside the House. That is not in order.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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If you allow me, a Chathaoirligh, I will play in the House recordings of the advertisements.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Leyden, you are seeking a debate——
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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That is the case. Certain Opposition politicians are jumping on the bandwagon and calling public meetings to exploit this situation.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Senator, you are entitled to seek a debate but you cannot refer to anyone outside the House.
Ulick Burke (Fine Gael)
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There is widespread confusion and fear among the many parents throughout the country who have autistic children as to what their fate might be if they criticise the Government or any other agency regarding the lack of facilities for families in great need. This has arisen following the order last week to commit the four children of a Meath family into care. It was high-handed of the Health Service Executive in this case to commit these children to respite care and overlook the fact that both parents had given up their jobs and deprived themselves of earnings in order to provide for their children where the agencies failed to support them. It is extremely important, and I support what Senator Norris said, that the Minister for Health and Children or the Minister for Education and Science immediately intervene to resolve this situation and allay the continuing and growing fear among many parents throughout the country that their children will be taken into care.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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There are nine Senators offering but only ten minutes remaining on the Order of Business. I will not accept any other Senators who wish to speak and I ask the nine Senators offering to be brief. I call Senator Daly.
Brendan Daly (Fianna Fail)
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The Minister for Health and Children and the Minister for Finance have been discussing the acute hospital budget and the development plans for acute hospitals that will be put into operation this year. Will the Leader persuade the Minister for Health and Children to as soon as possible provide the House with an outline what has been agreed and the projects that will proceed this year? I am especially interested in the Ennis hospital development plan, for which €20 million has been set aside. I would like to get an indication from the Minister soon as to what is the likelihood for this development plan being undertaken this year.
Feargal Quinn (Independent)
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I was impressed to discover that the infection rates in hospitals differ in different countries. This is especially the case with regard to the MSRA infection rate. In Britain the figure has dropped since the introduction of league tables of the most dangerous hospitals. If the message for management is that what gets measured gets dealt with, this is an ideal way for Ireland to operate. There have been problems with safety in hospitals. In Denmark there is a zero rate of MRSA occurrence as it has a system of cleaning individual bedsteads once patients leave. However, there are various ways of going about this. Can we introduce topics during the Minister's visit to this House that are not limited to the Health (Amendment) Bill 2005? The question of health is high on the agenda of many Senators and in the upcoming by-elections.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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That would be a matter for the Chair.
John Gerard Hanafin (Fianna Fail)
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I share the view that a debate on human rights must take place, particularly regarding the most essential right of all, the right to life. I would welcome the debate. It is poignant that, on International Women's Day, this right would be upheld and I ask the Leader to arrange this debate as soon as possible. Reaffirming that basic right could do no harm.
James Bannon (Fine Gael)
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I support the call for a debate on the Travers report as there is a great deal of public disquiet about the manner in which the Government is handling the issue. It was twice brought to my notice at recent clinics that there are patients in long-stay institutions in the midlands who found no reference to this fact upon contacting the Health Service Executive. This is alarming as the only option left to these two families is to contact their solicitors. The Government is creating this situation.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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Has Senator Bannon a vested interest in solicitors?
James Bannon (Fine Gael)
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I also call for a debate on the Hanly report and on the Minister for Health and Children's actions in dismantling services throughout the country.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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We have addressed that matter. It is gone.
James Bannon (Fine Gael)
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Senator Finucane spoke on events in Cork and Limerick. Services provided by ear, nose and throat clinics have been withdrawn from three main midland towns since the week beginning 28 February 2005. The towns involved are the Leader's home town of Athlone, Senator Glynn's town of Mullingar and my own town of Longford.
James Bannon (Fine Gael)
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This is causing the region's public great alarm. Two weeks ago saw the withdrawal of the taxi service for elderly people attending a clinic. This issue must be put on the record when the Minister for Health and Children clarifies the situation regarding the Longford-Westmeath General Hospital, which will come under significant threat after the next general election.
Timmy Dooley (Fianna Fail)
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There would be real trouble. We can go back to the 1980s.
Labhrás Ó Murchú (Fianna Fail)
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It would be timely to invite the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Roche, to discuss the new planning guidelines as they relate to rural housing. It is high on his list of priorities and he has been exceptionally proactive in recent months in trying to bring this debate to a successful conclusion. However, there are still tens if not hundreds of cases throughout Ireland of young people being inexplicably refused permission to build in their own areas and on their own lands. The debate has been extended for longer than is necessary and it may be time for public representatives who are involved, such as those from this House, to be updated on the current status of the issue and to have an opportunity to comment on whatever guidelines may come into force.
Fergal Browne (Fine Gael)
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I agree with Senators O'Toole and Norris about the need for the Minister for Education and Science to address the House. Parents of autistic children are currently entitled to a home tuition grant of approximately 40 hours per week at a maximum payable rate of €520. However, it is crazy that there are no educational qualifications required of the person carrying out the work, that there is no supervision of who is carrying out the work involved and that children may not be in receipt of the full 40 hours per week. The needs of children with autism are even more special than the needs of children in mainstream schools. This is a ludicrous scenario. No doubt, down the line the State will be taken to court by either the children when they become adults or the parents which would be a waste of taxpayers' money. Many parents groups have been formed to try and get special schools set up which would use the applied behavioural analysis method, but they are not getting the funding. However, money is being squandered elsewhere in a haphazard manner. It is time we had a proper debate on the issue.
With regard to the appointment of Mr. Willie Walsh to——
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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As was already announced, that is not appropriate to the Order of Business.
Fergal Browne (Fine Gael)
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I just wish to make a general point. There is egg on the face of the Government. It is a reflection of the loss of confidence of the business community——
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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That is not in order. The Senator should resume his seat.
3:00 pm
Paul Bradford (Fine Gael)
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For the fourth or fifth time, I ask the Leader to invite the Minister for Foreign Affairs, or the Minister of State, to the House to discuss the situation in Sudan. The Government, this House and the European Union are silent on this issue. The worst sin of all is that the United Nations is also silent. The death toll has reached hundreds of thousands and 1 million people are being displaced as we watch. We must be seen to take a strong and proactive line on this issue and must demand that the United Nations fulfils its mandate. We have debated Iraq in this House on many occasions over the past 18 months. The scale of the turmoil, terror, killing and murder in Sudan is every bit as bad, but the issue is not getting the political attention it deserves. Our Government must use its voice at European and United Nations levels to plea for the people of Sudan. We have waited long enough.
Michael Kitt (Fianna Fail)
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We got good news in the past few weeks on road development and on significant sums of money for the NRA. However, there is still no money for the Clare-Galway route. We also need money for the railway. Senators O'Toole and Dooley referred to this issue last week and I support what they said with regard to the Sligo-Limerick line. I hope we have a debate on the issue, particularly on the missing section, namely, Collooney to Ennis. The other parts of the line north of Collooney and south of Ennis are included in the plans. A debate on the issue would be timely, particularly in view of the traffic problems, such as those at Claregalway on the N17. We should get the go-ahead and funding in the ten-year transport envelope for the Sligo-Limerick line. I would not worry about where to start as we will find a place to start once we get the go-ahead.