Seanad debates

Thursday, 11 March 2004

10:30 am

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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The Order of Business is No. 1, motion concerning the referral to the Joint Committee on Finance and the Public Service of the subject matter of No. 19 on today's Order Paper. It concerns data protection regulations. Sometimes I do no know whether I should read the accompanying explanation and be accused that it is on the Order Paper or not read it and be accused of being sparse. The item will be taken without debate.

Photo of Brendan RyanBrendan Ryan (Labour)
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The Leader will be accused either way.

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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That is true. No. 2 is the Garda Síochána Bill 2004 — Second Stage (resumed) to conclude not later than 12 noon, with the contributions of Members not to exceed ten minutes, Members may share time and the Minister to be called upon to reply not later than ten minutes before the conclusion of Second Stage; and No. 3, the Civil Liability and Courts Bill 2004 — Order for Second Stage and Second Stage to be taken at the conclusion of No. 1 at 12 noon until 2.30 p.m, with the contributions of spokespersons not to exceed 15 minutes, those of other Senators not to exceed ten minutes and Members may share time.

Photo of Brian HayesBrian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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We have all heard of the appalling tragedy in Madrid this morning in which more than 80 people have been killed and many hundreds injured. I am sure I speak on behalf of all here in sending condolences to the Spanish Government and people on this terrible act of terrorism. The Spanish people have had to resist the forces of neo-nationalism, as have we and the British, for the past 30 years. It is the darker side of Europe and we as holders of the European Presidency and the Taoiseach in particular as President of the European Union should send our condolences and join with them in unity in opposing this terrorism. It will not defeat European democracy.

On a separate matter, the Government yesterday mooted a proposal to bring forward a constitutional referendum on the issue of protection for non-nationals who arrive here immediately prior to giving birth. Does the Leader agree that we should proceed with great caution on this matter? We have in the past tied ourselves in knots by amending our Constitution in ways that the Supreme Court has then changed and re-worked. The Government's haste in this matter is not wise. Yesterday, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform held initial consultations with the Opposition parties on this. Would the Leader, who has experience of working in various Departments over the past 20 years, agree that it is necessary to decouple this issue from the forthcoming local and European elections? We do not want a divisive debate simultaneous with elections for the European Parliament and local authorities. It would be wrong of the Government or any politician to foist such a debate on the people. We should proceed with caution, examine the Government's proposal and consider it in the context of all the facts.

I am alarmed to hear that the masters of the maternity hospitals who went to see the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform some time ago have said that he is misrepresenting and exaggerating what they said to him at that meeting. They did not seek a legislative change on this issue but spoke about the question of health and humanitarian provision. If we are to proceed with this debate let it be full and honest and not misrepresent what people say. We have caused problems for ourselves, particularly for example on the abortion issue, by making amendments to the Constitution which, we have regretted because they were unenforceable.

Photo of Joe O'TooleJoe O'Toole (Independent)
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We should debate that issue at some other stage. This is not the correct way to start it, before we see the proposals. I do not believe that the masters of the hospitals said that the Minister misrepresented them. I did not hear them say that.

Kathleen O'Meara (Labour)
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They did.

Photo of Joe O'TooleJoe O'Toole (Independent)
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That is why need to see this in writing. Members on both sides of the House have agreed that we need a regulated system. I have criticised the Government more than most on this issue but we should look at the proposals first and then deal with them.

I fully support Senator Brian Hayes's point and ask that the House would formally express to the Government our view that we should convey our condolences to the Spanish people. It is also time for us to step back and recognise what has been achieved on this island in recent years through the Good Friday Agreement. Until recently stories such as we have heard from Madrid came from this island and we should remind ourselves of that, whatever the rows over advances in the peace process.

We should also commit ourselves to democratic structures, and legal and constitutional means of dealing with these issues. The occurrences at Guantanamo Bay where people are being held without regard to human rights, without justice or access to legal support flies in the face of the beliefs of everyone in this House and gives oxygen to terrorists. This is what they need to justify themselves publicly. The Irish Presidency should make known its views on that issue to the American Government, perhaps not publicly but it should be done. It does not help those of us on this side of the Atlantic to see the trampling of rights of those held in detention without trial.

I would like a debate on the report published yesterday by the Marine Casualty Investigation Board, which covered most of the deaths at sea over the past five or six years. These included accidents involving the pleasure boat and work boat in Dublin Bay, the Spanish trawler that went aground in Dingle Harbour and the trawler Áine in Donegal. These issues affect many constituencies. The vessel involved in the incident in Dingle Harbour was seen not to comply with Irish manning and technical requirements and the same was true of the incident in Tarbert. As I have previously stated in the House, flags of convenience are causing all sorts of problems. There is a range of material in this area that needs to be discussed. We only ever talk about it following a particular accident. We now have an opportunity to discuss all the recommendations, which are sensible and non-political. We all have a vested interest in getting this right for the sake of safety at sea.

Photo of Brendan RyanBrendan Ryan (Labour)
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The Labour Party fully supports the views of our colleagues on the appalling atrocity in Spain. While I do not want to push the Cathaoirleach's indulgence, we should invite a party, with Members in the Oireachtas, to clarify whether it still invites honorary guests from the political wing of ETA to its Ard-Fheiseanna.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Brendan RyanBrendan Ryan (Labour)
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Recently I had the misfortune to hear an Oireachtas Member attempting to justify on the radio the assassination of a 79 year old man, who happened to be part of the British aristocracy, while on holidays in Sligo some years ago. While I am normally fairly well able to handle such comments, it was among the most repulsive things I have heard from an Oireachtas Member. On this matter I am in full support of the Taoiseach. Having observed what happened in Spain, we need to get absolute clarity. A political party in the State is using the dangling of further concessions on arms to keep itself in the political headlines and we need to see an end to that.

Photo of Brian HayesBrian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Brendan RyanBrendan Ryan (Labour)
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The Government proposes to hold a referendum on citizenship. On 17 February the Taoiseach told my party leader that the Government had no proposal to hold a referendum to change the Constitution in this regard. On 20 April 1998 he informed my then party leader that no legislation would be proposed by the Government to the Oireachtas, which imposes restrictions on the entitlement to Irish nationality and citizenship of persons born in Ireland.

Wearing my engineer's hat, the first thing to do with a problem is to define it precisely. We in the Opposition are entitled to know what precisely is the problem. When we hear senior representatives of maternity hospitals at the very least questioning the Minister's reasoning and when others who have served on the boards of these hospitals tell me that the proportion of asylum seekers coming to their hospitals is reducing in recent times, I am entitled to ask whether there is a coincidence of timing between this proposal being floated and the election on 11 June. If there were such a connection, it would represent a desperately cynical move on the part of the Government.

While there may be a problem to be addressed, it deserves to be dealt with dispassionately and calmly. The Opposition is entitled to hard information explaining how this arose so that we do not get involved in a referendum campaign in which dreadful things would be done and in which certain people in some political parties will again get carte blanche to say the sort of stuff they said during the general election.

Yesterday in the Dáil, the Taoiseach announced that the Government would not proceed with the fundamental proposal of the task force on emigration and would not establish an agency to provide services for the Irish abroad. He also let it be known that no money on the scale proposed would be made available. Given that we have had so much talk about the tragedy of elderly Irish people abroad and that the country is not that hard up, this is a dreadful decision. I wish to move an amendment to the Order of Business that No. 20, motion No. 23, on the Order Paper in the names of the Labour Party and Fine Gael Senators be taken at the commencement of business today.

The Government produced a paper on the working time directive and how it affects hospital doctors at a European Council meeting, without having presented it to the Members of the Oireachtas. I thought we had moved beyond the days of secretive meetings in Brussels to change the rules. As we are entitled to see this, I ask the Leader to seek a copy of the paper the Government submitted.

A topic raised in the media yesterday was the apparent perpetual shipping of Irish waste to anywhere we can find a fool in Europe to accept it. I was most upset by the Environmental Protection Agency being quoted as stating: "If this second attempt to ship illegal waste abroad was found to be deliberate, then there should be a prosecution." I expect more from our Environmental Protection Agency than that sort of lily-livered statement. Of course it was deliberate and we are making fools of ourselves. This incident involved local authority waste supposedly going for recycling and they are looking for a dump somewhere in Europe. We are being disgraced in Europe by our attitude to waste.

John Minihan (Progressive Democrats)
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I join previous speakers in referring to the tragic events in Spain this morning. I endorse the comments that we should pass on our condolences. A certain so-called democratic political party has an association with the elements committing such atrocities in Spain. Inviting their political representatives to attend the party's Ard-Fheis in Dublin flies in the face of everything we are trying to achieve and is further evidence of the backhanded approach that a so-called democratic party has to serious efforts to bring peace not only to this country but to all democratic states. The people need to face up to its association with political parties that try to undermine democracy. The time has come for us to stop walking on eggshells around these people and tell them it is not acceptable and never will be. I endorse Senator Ryan's comments.

I support Senator O'Toole's call for a debate on the report of the Marine Casualty Investigation Board. We must reflect on this matter and bring in line legislation governing activities involving pleasure craft in particular. With the amount of new pleasure craft used off our shores during the summer months, we are very fortunate to have had so few tragedies. A debate could highlight the issues and would be useful to future legislation.

The proposed referendum on citizenship will need to be handled very carefully and we need an open debate. If it is not fully explained and justified, there is a danger that the scandalous racist comments made during the last general election will be repeated. In the constituency in which I ran in the general election there were some outrageous comments and political hijacking of a race issue. I look forward to a clear explanation. However, if a referendum is held at the same time as the local and European elections, I appeal to all politicians and candidates not to play the race card. It does a disservice to politicians, to democracy and to this country.

Michael Finucane (Fine Gael)
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I second the amendment. I agree with Senator Ryan's condemnation of the Government's decision not to set up an agency for the Irish abroad as recommended in the report of the task force on emigration. It was debated recently in the other House where Deputy Stagg made a very emotional contribution which was relayed practically in its entirety on the "Vincent Browne Show".

Another issue is that St. Patrick's Day falls next week and all of the Cabinet Ministers, with the exception of one, will travel to all parts of the world. On 18 March there will be disruption of service not alone in the context of trains and buses but also of Aer Rianta where six-hour strikes will take place in airports around the country. I am not sure what the Minister is doing about these issues but there is extreme concern among the public because the tourism season begins from 17 March onwards and this disruption will project a very bad image of the country. I therefore appeal to SIPTU to come back from the brink on this issue, to engage in discussions and try to get things moving on the issues pertinent to bus and train drivers and airport workers. The matter will not be resolved by the type of disruption that is planned. An important EU Presidency meeting is due to take place and the image this disruption will project internationally of Ireland will be a very bad one. There must be a better way of resolving the matter. I appeal to the Minister to do something about it at this late stage. This is our last appeal because the Seanad will not be in session next week. St. Patrick's Day will come and go, but the damage will linger afterwards.

Photo of Terry LeydenTerry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I support the proposal relating to the atrocity in Madrid. I ask the Leader of the House to convey to the leader of the Upper House in Spain our deepest regrets. I have visited Madrid, which is a beautiful city. It is a scandal that the peace-loving Spanish people have been affected in this manner.

I mentioned to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform my view that it would be wrong to have a referendum on 11 June and to confuse the issue with the European and local elections.

Photo of Ulick BurkeUlick Burke (Fine Gael)
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Is the Senator accepting there is confusion?

Photo of Terry LeydenTerry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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This issue has been around for a very long time, and I do not believe it is that urgent. We are well aware of the situation that has arisen. Quite frankly——

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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We cannot have a debate on this now. Many Senators are offering and some will be disappointed if we cannot be brief.

Photo of Terry LeydenTerry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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Regarding electronic voting, it would be disastrous to have another ballot on the machine on the day to cause further confusion.

Photo of Ulick BurkeUlick Burke (Fine Gael)
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Is this for real?

Photo of Terry LeydenTerry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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People will be asked to mark X in the referendum and to vote one, two, three and so on in the elections. It will be disastrous if this issue becomes a race issue and certain candidates latch on to the possibility and potential of raising fears in some areas to garner votes. I want to make clear — I have already conveyed my view to the Minister — that we will have enough on our plates on 11 June.

Photo of Brian HayesBrian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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The Government certainly has too much on its plate.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator has made his point adequately.

Photo of Terry LeydenTerry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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This issue should be put aside. It would also provide an opportunity to use the machines again this year. It would be very convenient to have a referendum in the autumn or next year.

Furthermore, on a point of order — and you as Cathaoirleach would desire proper decorum here-——

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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What is the point of order?

Photo of Terry LeydenTerry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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Regarding the naming of a person outside this House——

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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That is not in order. We will not reopen that matter.

(Interruptions).

Photo of Terry LeydenTerry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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He attended the Fianna Fáil Ard-Fheis as an observer.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator should resume his seat.

Photo of Terry LeydenTerry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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So did the British ambassador. He is not a member of Fianna Fáil, as far as I know.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Please resume your seat. I am calling Senators Norris and Terry.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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I join with other Senators in expressing horror and revulsion at the massacre in Madrid. I heard on the radio on my way here that there are 125 dead and the number is rising. I had intended to raise the excellent point raised by Senator Ryan. In the other House there are representatives of Sinn Féin, which has an armed wing, the IRA. I would very much like to hear them now condemn their former allies, members of which were honoured guests at the time when they were also committing these atrocities at their Ard-Fheiseanna.

I would like also to comment on the proposal of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy McDowell. He is being treated a little unfairly, because the masters of the hospitals visited him. One does not visit the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to ask for extra funding in the health area. The reason one goes to such a Minister is to seek some amendment in the law. I speak as someone who has consistently supported the rights of asylum seekers, immigrants, and various people, so I do not believe I could be accused of being racist. Again, I would like to hear Sinn Féin people speak on this because they represent areas where it is not politically advantageous for them to take an honourable stand. Let them come out on the race issue as well. However, it is not humanly good for people to place their unborn children at risk by flying into this country when they are almost in labour. That is wrong and the matter should be examined.

A matter I have raised previously and on which I have again requested a debate in the area of foreign affairs is the dreadful situation in which we are placed by American action. Within about 24 hours of their arrival in Britain four or five people, who were supposed to be world terrorists threatening the entire planet, were released. They were kept in cages, tortured, denied their human, legal and civil rights. Does the Taoiseach, Deputy Bertie Ahern, still propose to travel to Kerry in early summer to lick George Bush's backside in these circumstances?

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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That is unparliamentary language and should not be used.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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Which word is unparliamentary, "Taoiseach", "Ahern" or "backside"?

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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That is worse. The Senator should withdraw his remark. The Order of Business is being delayed and Senators will be disappointed. Will the Senator withdraw his remark?

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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Is the Cathaoirleach referring to the word "backside"?

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Yes.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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I will withdraw the word "backside" and replace it with the word "posterior".

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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I am asking the Senator to withdraw the entire phrase.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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I am sorry, I cannot hear you, a Chathaoirligh.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Norris, I want you to withdraw the entire phrase; you probably know what you said.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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Could I suggest that the Taoiseach find a more suitable way of humiliating himself than the one described above, which comment I now withdraw?

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator has withdrawn the remark. I call Senator Glynn. We have only six minutes left for about ten speakers.

Photo of Camillus GlynnCamillus Glynn (Fianna Fail)
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I will not delay very long. I join with the other Members who rightly condemned the atrocity in Madrid. I had a call this morning from my wife to inform me of the atrocity. We have a son teaching there who uses public transport and there was great consternation in my family until we made contact. He is all right, but we are lucky. What about others whose relatives will not be there to answer the call? This was an outrageous attack on humanity and I utterly condemn it.

11:00 am

Kathleen O'Meara (Labour)
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I too wish to add my voice to the comments condemning the atrocity in Madrid. Will the Leader seek from the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment early clarification on the issue of the European working time directive, specifically in terms of how it applies to junior doctors? Will she also inquire from the Minister of Health and Children about the state of negotiations with the IMO and junior doctors? This matter relates not only to such doctors but also to hospitals throughout the country and the patients who use them.

I support the amendment to the Order of Business proposed by Senator Ryan.

Don Lydon (Fianna Fail)
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I remind the Leader of the request from Senator Tuffy for a debate on pornography. Perhaps she could make time available for such a debate.

I also wish to express my revulsion at the events in Madrid. Members of the European Parliament stood for a minute's silence this morning. I know that the rules of the House are strict but, given the horrendous nature of this act, perhaps we could do the same.

Photo of Ulick BurkeUlick Burke (Fine Gael)
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On 1 March the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government introduced a worthwhile service in the form of on-line motor vehicle taxation. Unfortunately, this service is open to abuse. Will the Leader make immediate contact with the Minister and his Department urging them to close off the loophole whereby a person who wants to enter bogus details of their insurance can do so and receive a legitimate tax certificate for their vehicle in return? All one needs is access to the Internet, a laser or credit card and the special pin number and details of one's insurance. The Minister was probably not aware, in the rush to introduce the service, that a person can enter details of their insurance which are not accurate and are, in fact, bogus. Approximately €720 million is collected by the Department in vehicle taxation and it is important that we should ensure that uninsured persons would not be allowed to drive on the roads through use of this facility.

Sheila Terry (Fine Gael)
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I join others in expressing condemnation of the atrocity in Madrid this morning. Like Senator Glynn, I have a son living in Spain although he does not reside in Madrid. My family is looking forward to attending a wedding in Spain this summer. It was with great sorrow that I heard about this morning's atrocity and the number of deaths involved. I extend my sympathy to the Spanish people.

Like other Members, I urge caution upon the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform in respect of his proposals to restrict citizenship rights for children of foreign nationals. As a number of previous speakers stated, this is a matter about which we must be extremely careful. We do not want it to be dealt with in conjunction with the local and European elections and I ask that the Minister delay the referendum to a later date in order that further discussion can take place.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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Will the Leader invite the Minister for Health and Children to come before the House for a debate on the Irish psychiatric service's most recent report which was published by the mental health research division of the health research board? That report highlights a number of matters of concern such as, for example, the number and rate of admissions to psychiatric services and the number of people with intellectual disorders in psychiatric institutions. It also highlights the condition of the buildings at many psychiatric institutions which belong to another era. What is alarming about the report is the finding that many people have been admitted in recent years for alcohol disorders. The numbers of such admissions are among the highest in Europe. This is a matter of concern and we should have a debate on it.

I am delighted that Senator Leyden proposed a vote on no confidence in the e-voting system.

Photo of Terry LeydenTerry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I did not.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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Do I detect a change of heart by the Government on this issue?

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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I am sure the Leader is aware that there is still a great deal of confusion regarding the situation in our hospitals. Will she invite the Minister for Health and Children to come before the House to clarify the situation regarding local hospitals? We were informed last weekend that 24-hour cover will be provided but I have not met anyone — consultants, GPs, etc. — who believes that. As Senator Ryan, from his expertise in the area of engineering, stated, we need to define the problem and address it properly. We must be informed as to the exact situation.

Fergal Browne (Fine Gael)
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RTE will broadcast a documentary on President McAleese in the near future. That is inappropriate, particularly in view of the fact that this is an election year, because it gives an unfair advantage to one person.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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We have no control over what RTE broadcasts.

Fergal Browne (Fine Gael)
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RTE has been very selective in what it has——

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Does the Senator have a question for the Leader? The House has no control over RTE.

Fergal Browne (Fine Gael)
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Perhaps the Leader will communicate my concerns to the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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Hear, hear.

Fergal Browne (Fine Gael)
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It is grossly unfair, in an election year, for a candidate to be the subject of a documentary.

Will the Leader ask the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government why a ministerial order has not yet been signed in respect of the local elections? I have spoken to a few town clerks who informed me that they have not yet received such an order. They are not sure whether 11 June has been formally set as the date on which the elections should taken place. I agree with Senators Leyden and Terry about the confusion that will arise if we have a referendum, town council, county council and European elections on the same day.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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There are only a couple of speakers still offering and if the Senator continues I will not be able to facilitate them.

Fergal Browne (Fine Gael)
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Will the referendum, if it proceeds on 11 June, be in the form of a paper ballot?

Photo of Frank FeighanFrank Feighan (Fine Gael)
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I join colleagues in condemning the callous and heinous atrocity in Madrid, which has caused many lives to be lost, and in sending a message of condolence to the Spanish Government.

We should condemn the neo-nationalists who recently sent death threats to six Catholic members of the Craigavon district policing board. We must stand together to ensure that this latest wave of intimidation against members of policing boards in Northern Ireland stops.

Photo of Paddy BurkePaddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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I support Senator O'Toole's request for a debate on the MCIB report. Such a debate would be useful. There is also a need for a debate on the Government's position on and its proposals in respect of the regional fisheries boards. People are concerned about what will happen to the boards. A debate on this matter could be included in that on the MCIB report.

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Brian Hayes referred to the Madrid atrocity. It was a grievous crime and we have learned that over 130 people have died. I understand that the death toll may rise even further. It would be a matter for the Cathaoirleach but I ask on behalf of all the parties that there be a minute's silence at the end of the Order of Business. That would be very appropriate.

Senators:

Hear, hear.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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I have no difficulty with the Leader's proposal.

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Cathaoirleach. We are comrades in Europe with the Spanish and we have, in historical terms, been comrades with them for many years. We are also comrades with them in peace. This was a terrible atrocity.

Senator Brian Hayes also referred to ETA and the visitors rights accorded to its representatives when they attend the Ard-Fheis of a particular party. That is very wrong. This matter, among others, has led to a change in the way in which that party is viewed in this country. That is no harm.

The Senator also raised the matter of a referendum on children born to asylum seekers who are present in the country but who do not hold legal status. He asked that it be decoupled from the local elections and, given that it is now mid-March, that there should be a full and open debate on it before we proceed. In his radio interview this morning, the Minister, Deputy McDowell, did not appear to say that the referendum would definitely be coupled with the local and European election. He referred to the expense involved in holding the poll on another day but he did not say that the referendum would be held on 11 June. I would not like it to become an issue coupled with local and European elections because despite all the warnings we may give, it will become just that. That is a bigger issue than the expense of another day at the polls.

Senator O'Toole offered his condolences to the Spanish people and raised the issue of Guantanamo Bay. It is terrible that prisoners could be put in cages and left there for two years without seeing family or any other visitors. It is only now that they are getting attention, although we have debated the issue here. A debate on the report published by the Marine Casualty Investigation Board would be interesting for everybody, and especially the many people from coastal regions in this House.

Senator Ryan spoke about the ETA connection at a political Ard-Fheis here. I have already dealt with the referendum issue which he raised. He has moved a motion which deals with the task force on elderly Irish emigrants, particularly in the UK. He has also spoken about the money not being provided. That matter has been raised by Deputy Gay Mitchell and I supported him. The Committee on Foreign Affairs intends to go to London, Birmingham and Manchester quite soon to meet with them. That is another day's work. He also stated that the House should seek a copy of the paper on the working time directive. I thought of that when I read it this morning because we need to know the changes that are being brought in on the directive. He also alleges the Environmental Protection Agency gave a rather weak response to the issue of disposing waste abroad.

Senator Minihan supported condolences to the Spanish people and also called for a debate on the report of the Marine Casualty Investigation Board. He made a passionate appeal not to use the proposed referendum on citizenship to play the race card, if the referendum was coupled with the local and European elections. However, that would be blown on the wind if the referendum was held because people would be inflamed with their ambitions for being elected. This issue would be best served on another occasion although that is a personal opinion.

Senator Finucane spoke about the Irish abroad and the proposed strike. As Senator O'Toole said yesterday, I hope the transport strike will not take place on 18 March and that sense will prevail. Senator Leyden conveyed sympathy to the Spanish people as did everyone who spoke. I understand the Taoiseach spoke by telephone to Spanish Prime Minister Aznar to convey our country's condolences. I intend to call the Spanish Upper House to convey our sympathies when I return to my office.

Senator Leyden stated we should not have a referendum on 11 June. He mentioned someone's name which the Cathaoirleach ruled out of order so I will not mention him again. He was an observer at the Ard-Fheis.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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I think we have dealt with that.

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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I am aware of that. Senator Norris raised the issue of asylum seekers and the issue of Guantanamo Bay. I am sure Senator Glynn suffered personal anguish this morning until he got in contact with his son in Madrid because one would immediately think of one's son or daughter being on that train. There must have been a series of bombs since the House began in session. Senator O'Meara spoke on the European working time directive. We will have to seek clarification on that from the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment. Senator Lydon spoke about pornography and later suggested that we should have a minute's silence for the victims of the atrocities in Madrid.

Senator Ulick Burke pointed out that there was a loophole with the on-line tax system. It seemed a great idea that one could sort out one's tax on-line but the Senator has identified a loophole and asked the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government if it can be covered. Senator Terry spoke about citizenship rights and there should be time for a reasoned debate on the matter. Senator Bannon asked that a report on alcohol abuse be considered. Senator Coghlan spoke about health issues and Senator Browne referred to the fact that there was no ministerial order on local elections. The local elections are taking place on 11 June and everyone is geared up for them and wants them to take place. I do not wish to comment on the President. She has never been a matter for comment here.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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That is not a matter for this House. I have ruled on that. I want the Leader to speak without interruptions.

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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Fine Gael has to get itself a candidate. We have a candidate and she is there already.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Order please.

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Feighan raised the issue of the threats to the Craigavon police board. That is just awful, there are threats everywhere these days. Senator Paddy Burke wished to have a debate on the reports by the Marine Casualty Investigation Board and the Regional Fisheries Board.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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We will now observe one minute of silence for the victims of the terrorist attacks in Spain this morning.

Members rose.

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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I wish to bring to the attention of Members that the week after next the Finance Bill and the Social Welfare (No. 2) Bill will be coming before the House.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Ryan has moved an amendment to the Order of Business: "That No. 20, motion No. 23, be inserted before No. 1." Is the amendment being pressed?

Order of Business agreed to.