Seanad debates
Friday, 27 June 2003
Order of Business.
10:30 am
John Dardis (Progressive Democrats)
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The Order of Business is No. 1, Taxi Regulation Bill 2003 – Second Stage, to be taken at the conclusion of the Order of Business and conclude not later than 1.30 p.m., with the contributions of spokespersons not to exceed 15 minutes and those of all other Senators not to exceed ten minutes and on which Members may share time, the Minister to be called upon to reply not later than ten minutes before the conclusion of Second Stage.
Ulick Burke (Fine Gael)
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I wish to raise with the Deputy Leader the serious concerns recently expressed by the chairperson of the Irish Research Council for Science, Engineering and Technology, Professor Tom Mitchell, who is deeply worried about the further cutbacks which the Minister for Education and Science has made in the area of research for graduates. Most Members of the House would agree that the catalyst for industrial development in Ireland has been high skills and research in the field of technology. The fact that the Minister is cutting back funding this year from €19 million to €10.5 million is a cause of concern to those involved in the area. Research is in limbo. We have been informed that during the lifetime of the NDP overall spending will be cut back from €95 million to €60 million. This will reactivate the brain-drain. We must take immediate steps and request a response, both from the Minister for Education and Science and the Tánaiste because of her role in job creation.
Each day, we hear of job losses, generally to low labour cost areas in Europe and beyond. If we start to lose the high-tech industry, in which investment has yielded great value for money, we will be in serious trouble in any efforts to rekindle the economy and re-focus on the former Celtic tiger conditions. I ask the Deputy Leader to bring to the attention of the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment the urgent need to bail out the Minister for Education and Science once again, as she did in the recent past. If she has a war chest, now is the time to indicate it. Against the background of spin doctoring of the bad news, it is time to investigate some of the funding referred to and restore the €9 million in the current year to allow research to continue in that area.
I request that time be allowed immediately for a debate on agriculture so that we can fully discuss the outcome of the EU Council of Agriculture Ministers' meetings over the last few weeks, which will have absolutely horrific effects on our economy, especially in rural areas. That will affect the dairy sector in particular, as the Cathaoirleach will be aware. It has been a hammer blow to that sector, which will accelerate, beyond belief, the flight from the land. It is a long time since confidence in agriculture has slumped to the present level. We are about to revert to a situation in which most young farmers, whose parents had invested heavily in the dairy sector, will have to turn their backs and walk away because of the non-profitability of this sector.
Ulick Burke (Fine Gael)
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It is time Senator Dooley showed concern for the situation he has left, perhaps hoping to return.
David Norris (Independent)
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Would it be possible to consider, in advance, a matter for the autumn schedule? I realise it is not practical to seek a debate within the next week, although it concerns a rather serious matter. I refer to the report on crime prevention by the national crime task force, in relation to which I believe this House could play a very useful role.
The report is a very important and significant one. The two main recommendations are that we should move towards non-custodial sentences, community service and so on, as well as – this is critical – investing in extra teachers in deprived areas of our country. In this House, I and others have made this point repeatedly, particularly with regard to the Breaking the Cycle programme in places such as the north inner city area of Dublin, where wonderful, lovely young children are given a chance, which is then snatched away from them a couple of years later. The programme should continue right up to third level.
My reason for raising the issue arises from a discussion I heard on a radio programme this morning, in the course of which the report was described as being full of good ideas which will probably not be implemented because there will not be enough money available. That issue must be tackled. Implementation of the recommendations in the report will actually save money – that is beyond doubt. We, in Seanad Éireann, could do a useful job in this regard, perhaps by carrying out some research over the summer period, contacting the agencies concerned and demonstrating to Government that, over a period of three, five or ten years, action on this report would actually save money to the Exchequer. More importantly than money, it would benefit the lives and well-being of young people.
I ask the Deputy Leader to extend my congratulations and, I feel sure, those of all Senators, to the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Cowen, on his perfectly appropriate visit to Yasser Arafat yesterday. I am a strong supporter of the State of Israel, but not of its present government whose attitude is outrageous and infantile. How dare those people dictate to an Irish Minister as to whom he can, or cannot, visit? How childish to tell our Minister he should go home and return on a separate occasion, on the basis that they will not meet him in a situation where he has been tainted by Arafat. It is time those concerned in Israel grew up. Our Minister, Deputy Cowen, is to be congratulated.
I stand with those wonderful Israeli citizens who protest against the building of the wall which represents an attempt to grab land, expropriating it from the Palestinians. I stand with those wonderful Israeli soldiers, of whom there are hundreds, who have defied their Government by refusing to carry out actions they regard as transgressing the civil rights of their Palestinian neighbours. We should bear that in mind. We must keep the spotlight on that area to ensure we know what is going on and, perhaps, have some little influence on it.
I was not in the House to hear the speech of my colleague, Senator Minihan, yesterday. However, according to newspaper reports, strongly caustic comments were made in relation to people using the Special Olympics for some political purpose. I never came across that. What I did observe was the use of this event as leverage to secure the requirements of people with disabilities. That is a perfectly legitimate approach which I fully support. Like other Senators, I received another letter today, referring to wheelchair facilities being closed down from Mitchelstown to Clare. We are perfectly right to use the Special Olympics for leverage. That is not partisan or political, though it may represent a pinch for the Government. That is what Governments are for and we are perfectly right to use leverage.
Joanna Tuffy (Labour)
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I agree with Senator Norris's comments in relation to Israel. I have previously advocated in the House that Ireland should play a role in the peace process between the Israelis and Palestinians. I totally condemn the actions taken recently by the Israeli Government. Because of Ireland's long experience of the peace process in the North of Ireland, we should encourage both sides in this process. While I have no problem with the current visit by the Minister for Foreign Affairs, it is very important that we also work with the Israelis on this issue, providing any help we can give.
In passing, I refer to an NCB report mentioned in the media yesterday. One of the issues raised was whether it was attractive any longer for investors to buy property for renting. A debate on housing has been sought many times in this House, including the issue of rural housing. I support that request. It is important that we debate this issue as a priority in the next term. Many people are pressed out of the housing market, languishing on housing lists and cannot afford to rent. We should do something to help those people. Housing is a right – it is not simply a market issue. This Government has to take on its responsibility in this regard, rather than just leaving it aside and awaiting developments in the constitutional committee. There is so much the Government can do now on the housing issue.
Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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I support Senator Ulick Burke's request for a debate on agriculture. I ask the Deputy Leader to try to facilitate that at the earliest opportunity. I take this opportunity to congratulate the Minister for Agriculture and Food, Deputy Joe Walsh, on his performance in Europe on the CAP reform proposals over the last two weeks and, especially, on the successful outcome he secured at the conclusion.
Frank Feighan (Fine Gael)
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I also wish to have a debate on agriculture. I am horrified to note that 45% of Irish farmers are now over 55 years of age. We are facing a 25% cut in prices in the dairy sector and beef prices will drop in the next few years.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator's points are more appropriate to the debate which he is seeking.
Frank Feighan (Fine Gael)
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I will move on to the matter of jobs in rural areas. A year and a half ago, there was a fire in a meat processing factory in Roosky. At that time – just before the general election – promises were made that the factory would be replaced. Over 350 jobs were lost. The owners have now indicated that they do not intend to build a factory at that location. I call on the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment to come to the House and arrange for the establishment of a task force to address this serious problem in County Roscommon. This is of vital importance.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I agree with Senator Norris in his very fair assessment of the situation in the Middle East. I join him in offering our best wishes to the Minister, Deputy Cowen, who is doing a huge amount of courageous work in that region. Indeed, he is carrying on the great work of the late Brian Lenihan, who was the first Minister for Foreign Affairs to recognise the right of establishment of the state of Palestine, so there is continuity. The Friends of Palestine in the Oireachtas group is now up and running.
I support Senator Feighan's call for the establishment of a task force to deal with the problem in Roosky, or at least to ask the Minister responsible – the Minister for Agriculture and Food or for Enterprise, Trade and Employment – to come to the House and explain how a public limited company such as Glanbia could withdraw its jobs from an area such as Roosky, whose inhabitants supported Glanbia and the Hanley family over the generations. Pig processors in that region have been well served. We are losing a major industry in Roosky and there is no guarantee of the continuation of the canning industry there if the raw material, pigmeat, is withdrawn. It is an outrageous decision. We need an explanation from representatives of Glanbia, which is a plc.
The Government also has a responsibility in this regard. When the factory in Ballaghaderreen was burnt down – I was a Deputy at the time – we ensured that Glanbia and others went in there and reopened the factory. Everybody expected that the company would reopen the plant in Roosky, where there are trained, qualified workers.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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Instead, it is to extend the plants at Edenderry and Roscrea, which means the workers have to travel a long distance to their jobs. It is about time we discussed this matter. I call for a debate next week on this issue. Maybe I will put down a matter for discussion on the Adjournment.
I call on the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Harney, and the Minister of State, Deputy Fahey, to come into the House before the recess to discuss the proposed closure of the Irish Wheelchair Association's day care centres from 1 September because of the withdrawal of FÁS workers on that date. In the European Year of the Disabled, it is outrageous that we are to lose these care workers. Seamus Thompson is the very responsible chief executive of the Irish Wheelchair Association and this action is a last resort for him. Before we go into recess next week we should have a discussion on this. I intend to put down a matter on the Adjournment to this effect and I ask the Cathaoirleach to give it very careful consideration.
Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy will have to give me notice separately. It is not in order at this time.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I will put it down on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday.
Paul Bradford (Fine Gael)
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I support the call of my colleagues, some of whom are on the other side of the House, for a full debate next week on agriculture. There has been an indication that some time will be allowed but a substantial time will be necessary. We are talking about the future of Irish agriculture. As the Cathaoirleach knows, one of the big issues is that young people are drifting away from the land in enormous numbers. We must be careful in debating these issues that we do not continue to paint a bleak picture of a career that nobody wants to enter. We must debate the issue in a careful, positive fashion. It is not simply about the present CAP reform measures but the very future of agriculture. There are enormous challenges and much that can be criticised in relation to yesterday's deal, but we must strike a positive note as far as we can and send a message from this House that young people can have a future on the land if proper policies are put in place.
The Deputy Leader is, to put it mildly, an expert in this field. We need a debate on CAP reform, but we also need to draw a map for the future of Irish agriculture. If there is political goodwill on all sides we should be able to send a message from the House that agriculture will not die a total death and that there can be a way forward if the Minister and the Government are willing to face up to the challenge. I look forward not to a rehash of tired old arguments about farming disappearing down the tubes but a positive debate to give hope to young people who want to maintain farms, particularly family farms.
Cyprian Brady (Fianna Fail)
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I want to raise the important issue of the massive increase in the availability of illegal drugs in Dublin city. I attended another funeral last night, that of a 28 year old man who died tragically in Ballymun as a direct result of drug abuse. The rumour on the street is that he owed the dealer €200. This is a serious problem. There have been at least eight deaths in the past six weeks related either directly or indirectly to drugs. Senator Norris raised the issue of crack cocaine, which has destroyed huge areas of cities in the USA and will no doubt cause the same problems here. I call for immediate action.
Cyprian Brady (Fianna Fail)
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We have called previously for a debate on this issue and such a debate should take place as soon as possible.
Fergal Browne (Fine Gael)
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Yesterday a report was apparently presented to the Oireachtas regarding the huge losses incurred by RTE, but I have not yet received it. I ask the Deputy Leader to find out why Senators do not appear to have received the report. It contains the news that RTE has lost €20 million this year. If other expenses are added, the real figure is about €56 million. This is quite amazing, especially as RTE has been given an increase in licence fees of about €45 per year. We need a debate on this issue. We must compare these results to those of TV3 and UTV, which made a profit, and consider how this can be sustained in the long term.
Yesterday a report was produced by Professor Little of TCD about making Irish and a foreign language compulsory in post-primary schools. I welcome the report, but it is important that we debate it in the House. I do not subscribe to the view that by making a language compulsory we will necessarily do it any favours. One way of turning people off a language, especially Irish, for which we all have a grá, is to make it compulsory. We should note the report and debate it in the House in order to consider how we should move forward. With all due respect to everyone involved in the teaching of Irish, the State's efforts to promote Irish have been a failure, when one compares the amount of time spent teaching it in school to the level of fluency people have afterwards. The results of this policy do not reflect all the hard work that goes into it. It is time we had a proper debate on how we can promote Irish as a living language.
I congratulate all those involved in the opening today of the section of the M1 motorway near Dublin Airport. It is the only road project that is actually on target. Four major road projects – from Galway to Waterford, Cork and Dublin – are about four years behind schedule. There are about 20 major road infrastructural projects ready to go, but the Government has not given them the money needed. We might ask the Minister for Finance to come into the House next week to explain why he is not providing the necessary funding to improve our infrastructure.
Timmy Dooley (Fianna Fail)
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I join my colleagues in welcoming a debate on the agriculture sector. I particularly welcome the comments of Senator Bradford. The issues of which he spoke are important. The Minister should come here as soon as possible to put before the House the outcome of his discussions in Luxembourg over the last few weeks. It is unfortunate that owing to the current information vacuum, a number of people, including Senator Burke, have sought to use opportunistic soundbites to damage the good work of the Irish delegation who went out and achieved the best results for Ireland, as they always do.
Ulick Burke (Fine Gael)
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Is the Senator trying to re-establish his roots in the countryside after his flight?
Timmy Dooley (Fianna Fail)
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It is appropriate that we should hear the facts, so that we may have an opportunity of congratulating the Minister and his permanent representatives, who have done such an excellent job in ensuring that many of Mr. Fischler's proposals which sought to take the Agenda 2000 measures to the extreme have been counteracted and that we will have a future in family farms. Senator Burke should note that I am talking about small family farms, not the large ranches in Europe.
Ulick Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator Dooley is going back. I am sure Senator Daly will welcome him.
Francis O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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I ask the Deputy Leader to ensure we have a debate on agriculture. The Minister deserves our congratulations on the wonderful deal he has struck after hard negotiations over the last two weeks. It is wrong to try to misinform the public that there is to be a 25% cut in milk production. The Minister will explain the true facts of the deal, which are that the cut is to be approximately 4%. He did a wonderful job and I look forward to hearing him explain the outcome of his negotiations in detail and congratulating him on his achievements. I fully agree with Senator Bradford. The future of young farmers must be a priority in our debate.
Camillus Glynn (Fianna Fail)
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In recent weeks a number of Senators have called for a debate on planning. I reiterate that call. Members of local authorities are responsible for devising county development plans. They certainly get the blame for them. However, the interpretation put on the plans by planners does not reflect the spirit in which they were framed by the elected members. I will be saying more about this matter when the debate takes place.
I strongly support the call for a debate on agriculture and welcome the positive and sensible comments of Senator Bradford. Rural development is driven, in the main, by the farming community. Agri-tourism, for example, is most important. The farm retirement scheme has been very worthwhile but, unfortunately, a number of farmers do not hand over the reins quickly enough. Young people have a contribution to make to farming and should be given the opportunity to do so.
Planning permission for housing estates should require the building of ramps. Everyone knows the problem of speeding in housing estates. Many housing estates in the capital provide for ramps but in provincial town and rural areas that is not the case. In the interest of public safety I ask that this be done.
John Dardis (Progressive Democrats)
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Senator Ulick Burke raised the question of funding for the Irish Research Council. I am sure the Senator is aware that the Tánaiste has been very much involved in this area. However, it operates at two levels, the academic and industrial. By international standards, investment in research by companies in Ireland has been poor. I do not agree that this will cause a brain drain. We have a very good example of what is being done by Intel in Leixlip, where there is now a leading edge IT research centre. I will bring the Senator's views to the attention of the Tánaiste and the Minister for Education and Science.
Senators Ulick Burke, Moylan, Feighan, Bradford, Dooley, O'Brien and Glynn referred to the talks in Brussels and related agricultural issues. Time will be found next week to deal with this matter adequately. It is a critical issue. As Senator O'Brien pointed out, while it was represented that there would be a 25% cut in dairy product support, most of this was part of Agenda 2000. The Senator is correct to state the cut is 4%, of which 81% will be subject to compensation. In addition, the amount of butter going into intervention has been increased from 30,000 tonnes to 70,000 tonnes. These were considerable achievements in the face of great odds. When the original proposals were published, one would have had great fears as to what the future would be. I will not minimise the difficulties farming faces but what has emerged is very much better than what we might have expected. The Minister is to be commended for this.
I also hope that whatever reductions are made in support prices will be reflected in the cost of food to consumers. I look forward to our being able to express our competitive advantage on world markets by being able to compete successfully on them. We have shown, at production level, that we are extremely successful.
I endorse what Senator Bradford had to say about careers in agriculture. If young people have been fed for 20 years on a daily diet of complaint that things in agriculture are terrible, it is not unreasonable that they walk away from the industry. I went into farming when I was 21 years old. One has enthusiasm at that age and does not even think about the broader policy issues. One just gets on and does the work. It would be terrible to see that enthusiasm killed.
I heard what the chairman of the task force on crime and sentencing had to say this morning. It was encouraging to hear him speak about the need for communities and city and county development boards to be involved. That input of local knowledge will be a very good step. We should debate this matter more fully when we return in the autumn.
The matter of the Minister for Foreign Affairs going to Palestine and meeting President Arafat and the Prime Minister was raised by Senators Norris, Tuffy and Leyden. I concur that it was important for the Minister to meet President Arafat and the Prime Minister and Foreign Affairs Minister of the Palestinian Authority. I note that this was described in the Jerusalem Post as a snub. By the standard of what the Jerusalem Post publishes, to describe it as a snub was very mild indeed. It was almost a compliment. Our only hope – we should know this from our own experience – is that violence, from whatever source, will be eliminated because it is the poison that feeds all the difficulties.
Senator Minihan is not here to defend himself against the remarks made about him. I will say this. I saw one television programme which purported to be a report on what took place at the games and, in fact, gave a platform for one person to make a political speech. I am of the view that sport and politics do not mix. While I know this is naive in the modern world, I still think it is a reasonable proposition, one that might be a headline in this case where every other aspect of what is true about the Olympic spirit is being upheld.
Senators Feighan and Leyden raised the matter of jobs in Glanbia in Roosky and the unfortunate fact that the company was to withdraw from the town, where there has been a processing industry for a very long time. This matter should be discussed. The best way to do so would be to table a motion on the Adjournment next week. Perhaps the two Senators might co-operate in that regard. The degree to which plcs can be told what they should and should not do is questionable. However, I will ask the Tánaiste about the matter of a task force. This could also be mentioned when the matter is raised on the Adjournment.
Senator Brady raised the issue of illegal drugs. It was depressing to hear what he had to say in regard to what was happening in the city. I am sure the problem is more widespread. Therefore, his remarks should be brought to the attention of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. Perhaps it is another matter which might be raised on the Adjournment.
Senator Browne raised the issue of losses in RTE. I concur with him. There is an important issue which has to do with reports being available to Members of this House. I am somewhat surprised to hear that the report is not yet available to Members of the Seanad. We have already drawn the matter to the attention of the various authorities. While there has been an improvement in receiving reports, it is important that the reports of State or semi-State bodies should be available to Members of this House just as they are available to Members of the other House.
In relation to language and the TCD report, I share the view that making matters compulsory is not the way forward, whether for Irish or any other language. As stated on radio this morning, all minority languages are in decline. That is not to say, however, everything should not be done to ensure Irish is protected and allowed to flourish.
I note the views of Senators in regard to roads and the M1. Many of the problems are related to planning and related issues. There has been slippage in many of the schemes. I understand legislation will be introduced in the near future to deal with issues relating to planning and delays in infrastructural projects.
Senator Glynn also raised the issue of planning, including ramps in housing estates and the interpretation of county plans. I share his view that it would be preferable if planning permissions included a requirement for ramps in housing estates. While these create a safer environment, it can be difficult to attempt to sleep beside one in the middle of the night when vehicles are passing by. However, that is a separate issue.