Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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The Order of Business today is No. 2, the Risk Equalisation Scheme 2003, which is being referred to the Joint Committee on Health and Children without debate; No. 3, the National Council for Special Education (Establishment) Order 2003, which is being referred to the Joint Committee on Education and Science; No. 4, statements on the Convention on the Future of Europe, to be taken at the conclusion of the Order of Business and to conclude not later than 6 p.m., with the contributions of spokespersons not to exceed 15 minutes and those of all other Senators not to exceed ten minutes and on which Members may share time, the Minister to be called to reply not later than ten minutes prior to the conclusion of the statements; No. 5, Protection of Employees (Fixed-Term Work) Bill 2003 – Committee Stage, to be taken at 6 p.m. and to conclude not later than 8 p.m.; and, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders relative to Private Business, No. 1, The Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland (Charters Amendment) Bill 2002 – Report and Final Stages, to be taken at the conclusion of No. 5.

Brian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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I wish to raise two matters on the Order of Business. Last week the European Central Bank decided to reduce interest rates by 0.5% throughout the eurozone. Members will be aware that the three biggest banks have failed to pass on this reduction to domestic borrowers and those with mortgages. Will the Leader make time available this week for a debate with the Minister for Finance in order that we might discover what the Government intends to do about this matter? The banks are privately-owned businesses and the amount of direct intervention in which the Government can engage is quite small.

All the moral indignation under the sun will not make much difference to these banks unless a firm decision is taken by the Government to reduce or stop some of the benefits that the State gives them on a constant basis. One of these benefits is the involvement of the State's security forces in the transfer of large sums of money, which is done for the banking groups at a hugely reduced cost. The Government should consider the postponement of any discussions with the Irish Bankers' Federation until the reduction in interest rates has been passed on to customers.

Is the Leader aware that next Tuesday an Oireachtas XV will take on the Police Service of Northern Ireland in a friendly football match? This is a unique sporting occasion. Is she aware that Sinn Féin, the alleged republican party on this island, is intent on staging a protest about the match?

A Senator:

We are not.

Brian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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Does the Leader agree that this is small-minded and that all right-thinking politicians and democratic parties should take a stand against the kind of intimidation that Sinn Féin wishes to instil?

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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That is not relevant to the Order of Business.

Brian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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Does she agree that if the party in question had done more in terms of ensuring pluralism throughout the island in the past, we would all be living in a better society?

Joe O'Toole (Independent)
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I also wish to ask the Leader to arrange a debate on interest rates. There is no monopoly of wisdom on one side of the House as opposed to the other in respect of this issue. I would like Members to place their views on record and give a clear message. Will the Leader consider arranging such a debate for tomorrow? I will propose an amendment to tomorrow's Order of Business on that issue. The greed and avarice we have seen are unacceptable. It is also important that the debate should not just be about the interest rate, because competitiveness, which we have discussed on many occasions, is being undermined. We have mentioned many times that inflation is being worsened. It is bad for economic growth and development in many ways.

In the course of the discussions on the national agreement and, in this House, on budgets I have asked many times for the rate of corporation tax not to be reduced. When the Government refused to move in this regard and decided to reduce the rate for other forms of business, I pleaded with it not to do so in relation to banks and financial services. This is the thanks taxpayers are given in response to the gifts they give. I would like a full debate on the matter and ask the Leader to consider it. While I hope to propose an amendment to tomorrow's Order of Business, I would prefer if time could be found in advance.

According to today's Order of Business, there will be a debate on Europe between 3 p.m. and 6 p.m. while the Protection of Employees (Fixed-Term Work) Bill 2003 will be taken between 6 p.m. and 8 p.m. If the first debate does not continue until 6 p.m., would it be possible for the Bill to be taken immediately after the discussion on the Convention on the Future of Europe?

Kathleen O'Meara (Labour)
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I agree with Senators who have asked for a debate on the failure of the three large banks to reduce interest rates in line with the ECB reduction last week. It is important that the issue of the lack of responsibility taken by the banks in relation to the economy is debated. Many householders across the country will be affected hugely by this decision. I am not sure that the Minister for Finance should come here for the debate because he seems to take a very laissez-faire attitude to this issue. Judging from his remarks at the weekend, he seems to think the market will decide but I am not sure that will happen. It seems that we need more power in order that we can have a far more interventionist role.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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The Leader of the House has agreed, in principle, to have a debate on the Forfás report in early July. In advance of that debate, I call on the Leader to ask the Tánaiste to instruct the Competition Authority to carry out an immediate investigation into the pricing of oil and diesel in the Irish market by the major companies. The prices of such products do not reflect the great difference between the values of the dollar and the euro. I compliment the Irish Independent for publishing a price list in today's edition and commend those in Reynolds' service station, Castletownroche, where unleaded petrol costs 79.9 cent per litre.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Easy, Senator. Names should not be mentioned.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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Is this "name and shame" time?

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I believe in naming and praising.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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I do not care whether the Senator is praising or naming them.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I would like to praise Anthony Browne who sells diesel for 70.9 cent per litre in Moate in the Leader's constituency.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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This is not appropriate to the Order of Business.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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It is highly commendable.

Brian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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No sales pitches.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I also commend—

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Does the Senator have a question?

Sheila Terry (Fine Gael)
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I would like to bring to the Leader's attention once more people with intellectual and other disabilities, many of whom were outside the gates of Leinster House today to try to highlight their difficulties. It is time the Ministers for Health and Children and Education and Science came to the House to discuss these issues, particularly in the light of the cutbacks that many families have to endure. There have been cutbacks in respite care and provision for young adults over the age of 18 years. There have also been cutbacks in personal assistance for many people with disabilities which will leave many in outrageous circumstances. We should have a discussion on this matter, notwithstanding the fact that there will be statements on autism tomorrow night. This is a most grave issue.

John Gerard Hanafin (Fianna Fail)
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Will the Leader make time available for a debate on the perennial problem of stress? This is a matter about which we can do something. It would be useful to have a discussion in the House on this issue in order to hear the views of the Members. Stress can be self-induced, but it can also come about as a result of outside forces—

Kathleen O'Meara (Labour)
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Like the Government.

John Gerard Hanafin (Fianna Fail)
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—such as, unfortunately, bullying. The latter exists at all levels in business and education and throughout society in general.

David Norris (Independent)
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Will the Leader indicate when the landlord and tenant Bill will come before the House? I hope the Government will reconsider the position in respect of the legislation. If not, I will do my best to have it amended because of the most astonishing notion it contains regarding the protection of landlords who do not make proper declarations of tax. This will be done by making it impossible for the Revenue to gain access to information that is gathered by this group. Revenue should have access to such information. I am aware of many situations where full disclosure for tax purposes is not made and that is a scandal. We should not be going down this avenue and I hope the Government will amend the Bill.

From the schedule of business for this week, I understand that there may be statements on Iraq tomorrow. I do not wish to jump the gun, but will the Leader indicate whether she will accept the suggestion I made that we use this procedure to pass the resolution tabled by the Independents? I used extremely mild wording in the resolution to ensure that it would not cause offence and in order to encourage its acceptance. It requests that the Minister for Foreign Affairs ensure that the Governments of the United Kingdom and the United States live up to their obligations under the Geneva Convention, etc., in terms of assisting civilian casualties of war. The resolution was passed unanimously by the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs, but it would strengthen our hand if it was also passed by the Seanad. I do not believe that it contains anything which might prove overly offensive, it should not be too controversial and it would be of assistance to those of us interested in the continuing situation in Iraq if it could be passed. I do not know if the Leader will agree to that. Perhaps she could inform us of the position in the morning.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator has made his point.

David Norris (Independent)
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—having its free run at the toll bridge extended. We should consider this matter.

Timmy Dooley (Fianna Fail)
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I join colleagues on the other side of the House in asking for a debate, at the earliest opportunity, in regard to the debacle with interest rates. What we have seen in recent days, from two, perhaps three, of the main banks, is particularly disappointing. The banks have a responsibility to their customers as well as to their stockholders. There is some concern about the profits that the banks might lose as a result of this. However, they are currently making astronomical profits and the small percentage that would be involved in giving the customers what they deserve would be appreciated. Their current stance is undermining the credibility of the ECB. While this is not specifically a Government issue, the views of this House might assist in pointing the banks towards their moral obligation to the State.

Ulick Burke (Fine Gael)
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On numerous occasions in the past ten weeks I have asked the Leader to intercede on behalf of members of the farming community – particularly those who live on the west coast – who have suffered severe losses as a result of the ongoing strike. It is difficult to surmise the Department's position in regard to this matter and a serious situation has developed. We have seen senior officers in the veterinary section defying the Minister's wishes regarding the provision of permits for farmers who want to move diseased herds off the farm, or sell healthy livestock.

It is essential that the Leader should request the Minister to attend the House to indicate what he intends to do about this ongoing problem. Farmers in the west have suffered serious losses, particularly in the spring and now in the summer when harvesting has become very difficult because cattle have to be retained on the farm. As you are aware, a Chathaoirligh, heretofore if a farmer kept a diseased animal on his or her farm for one day, he or she would have been liable to imprisonment. Now, however, diseased animals are being held on farms in the west with the blessing of the Minister. I am asking the Leader to intercede as a matter of urgency to request the Minister to attend the House for a debate on this issue.

Brendan Daly (Fianna Fail)
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It is now over 20 years since a number of regulations and orders were introduced governing the carriage of dangerous goods and substances. In recent times there has been much concern about accidents that have taken place as a result of oil spillages and it is thought that the regulations need to be enforced fully or, perhaps, changed. A very dangerous incident occurred today in Mulhuddart, as a result of which people are still in hospital. Will the Minister for the Environment and Local Government, or whichever Minister has responsibility in this regard, attend the House to indicate whether the regulations are being enforced fully or need to be updated? What efforts can be made to reduce the oil spillages causing serious accidents and environmental damage?

Mary Henry (Independent)
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You, a Chathaoirligh, and other Senators will have received the Irish Council for Science, Technology and Innovation's statement, published by Forfás, on embedding the pharmaceutical and chemical sector in Ireland. This is an important statement because the pharmaceutical and chemical industries are our main exporters. At the same time, however, the Government fixes the prices of pharmaceutical and chemical products used in the supply of drugs for the health service, and they are among the highest in Europe. Will the Leader organise a debate with the relevant Minister – whether it is the Minister for Finance, the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, or the Minister for Health and Children – to see how much the health service is helping to embed the very profitable pharmaceutical industry? The health service has dire financial problems while private patients have to pay very high prices for drugs. I would be grateful if the Leader could bring this matter to the attention of the relevant Minister with a view to having a debate on the issue in the House.

Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
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I endorse Senator Hanafin's request for a debate on stress, a matter of great concern, particularly for students at examination time. Given the number of suicides we have seen occurring around the country, including in my locality, the debate should be broadened in order to debunk the misguided stigma attached to mental health. A recent UCD survey showed that only 13% of students who suffered from stress availed of counselling, far too low a level. We should play our part in this regard.

It would be appropriate for the House to endorse the Government's case against Sellafield which is being taken in the Hague. In the last Seanad we had many debates during which all sides of the House advocated stronger Government action to counter the dangerous risks posed by British Nuclear Fuels' operations at Sellafield. The House should wish the Government well in its efforts which we hope will be successful.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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I agree with the views of Senator Brian Hayes and others in regard to the cuts in interest rates. I believed that, as good Europeans, once the ECB had moved, the main banks would have been the first to lead. I am intrigued as to the possible reasons for non-implementation. As the Taoiseach said, there is a moral imperative on the financial institutions to reduce rates. I would like to hear the Leader's views in this regard. I am sure the House would be totally united in the matter. There should no be further delay on the part of the financial institutions because it will impact adversely on our competitiveness.

On the issue of competitiveness, I asked the Leader some weeks ago about a Government proposal to set up a further committee of the Houses to deal with corporate affairs and competitiveness. Has this idea been formally abandoned? Perhaps the Leader will enlighten us further in this regard.

I join Senator O'Toole in his request to the Leader for Committee Stage of the Protection of Employees (Fixed-Term Work) Bill to begin earlier than 6 p.m. if the previous business has concluded.

Camillus Glynn (Fianna Fail)
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I want to raise a matter which has been brought to my attention on more than one occasion. It relates to the strict enforcement of the regulations pertaining to the transportation of offal, particularly green offal. I received a complaint recently from a restaurant owner where a container moved into the car park and very reluctantly moved away. A very offensive smelling liquid was oozing from it. This is not good at a time of the year when we are trying to attract tourists. There should be strict enforcement of the regulations which some operators totally disregard.

I strongly support the comments made on the refusal of some banking institutions to pass on the benefit of the interest rate cut. This is comparable to stealing the widow's mite.

Feargal Quinn (Independent)
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We continue to read every day about deaths on the roads. I was stunned to learn yesterday that 300,000 provisional driving licences had been issued and that there is a six month waiting list for the driving test. The Government has not focused its attention on doing something about this. There are reciprocal arrangements with other countries such as Australia and South Africa whereby people who come from these countries do not have to do a test here but they do not apply to Canada and the United States. I do not understand this. If there are reciprocal arrangements in place, surely they should apply to Canada and the United States from where a substantial number of Irish people come here to live. They must undergo a test, including an eye test and so on. We should be focusing our attention on reducing the number of provisional licences. I gather there are in the region of 130,000 waiting to do the test.

To follow on Senator Hanafin's comments on the problem of stress, figures were published yesterday in Britain on the cause of strokes and heart attacks. A major cause is the amount of salt in people's diets. Hundreds of years ago there was a tax on salt both here and in Britain. I propose that we consider another such tax.

David Norris (Independent)
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A tax on salt is what caused the French revolution. The peasants will be revolting again if we are not careful.

Feargal Quinn (Independent)
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Like the plastic bag tax, the objective would not be to try to raise money but to discourage people from eating so much salt.

(Interruptions).

Feargal Quinn (Independent)
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We are all at fault. Some nasty supermarkets sell products which contain one day's intake of salt. While salt is a major cause of heart disease and strokes, we can actually do something about this. Let us have a tax on it.

Joe McHugh (Fine Gael)
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In light of recent job losses, there is a worrying trend emerging in that most of the losses have occurred in the north-west, in the counties straddling the Border, including counties Fermanagh, Tyrone and Donegal. I ask the Leader to organise a debate on how – given that we have Senator Maurice Hayes as a representative from Northern Ireland – we can collectively use this House to come up with a comprehensive strategy on the creation of employment in Border areas which central government in both London and Dublin has failed, as was evident during the years of the Celtic tiger and remains so in these leaner years. Let us use the Border as an opportunity rather than a barrier.

James Bannon (Fine Gael)
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I am glad the Opposition is beginning to recognise that we need a debate on stress, much of which—

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator means the Government.

James Bannon (Fine Gael)
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I am sorry, I mean the Government benches, Members on which should be in opposition.

Timmy Dooley (Fianna Fail)
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I am delighted.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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Go to Estonia again.

James Bannon (Fine Gael)
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They are the ones who made promises and betrayed citizens at the last general election. Stress has been caused because they reneged on their promises. I ask the Leader to invite the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Martin, to the House to tell us when he will intervene in order to end the public health doctors' dispute which has continued for nine weeks. We also have nurses on strike in the Midland Health Board area because of the intolerable conditions under which some elderly persons must live. In addition, children are not being immunised and disabled person's grants are not being processed. It is very important that we have a debate on this issue because the public health doctors' dispute must end before we host the Special Olympics. Communities are living in fear.

John Dardis (Progressive Democrats)
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I support the call for a debate on interest rates and banking. First, however, it is important for the House to welcome the decision of the Polish people to agree to accession to the European Union. In particular, we welcome the fact that the "Yes" vote was so overwhelming and that the 50% voter turnout threshold, required for a valid vote, was comfortably achieved. The House should congratulate the Polish Government on the result.

Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Brian Hayes raised the matter of the ECB and the refusal to date of the three major banks to reduce their loan rates. It was interesting that a spokesperson for one of them said it was not "in the capacity" of the bank to reduce its rates. I cannot understand this. Such language seems most odd. Withholding such reductions is piracy. One is reminded of the remark made by the disgraced New York businesswoman, Leona Helmsley, "Only the little people pay taxes." On a previous occasion I contacted the Irish Bankers Federation and will do so again. I agree with Senator Brian Hayes and others who made the point about loan rates. I also agree with the Taoiseach who said the banks had a moral obligation to reduce them, which remark was correctly echoed in the House.

Senator Brian Hayes also spoke about the Oireachtas team which is to take on a PSNI team in a football match, and a planned protest. I did not hear about the protest of which the Senator spoke but imagine the Oireachtas team will be well able to deal with it.

Senator O'Toole urged that banks should not be exempt from corporation tax rate reductions. Clearly, this is the slap in the face we get as a result. The Senator requested that the debate on the matter take place tomorrow. I will consider the timetable to see if it can be accommodated. Senator O'Toole also asked that if statements on the Convention of Europe reached an early conclusion, the Protection of Employees (Fixed Work Bill) be taken immediately. However, I understand that the Minister will not be available until 6 p.m. I hope that the statements will not conclude early.

David Norris (Independent)
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It is. Very good.

Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Norris also raised the issue of speed limits and road tolls. We are having a debate on transport on Private Members Business tomorrow evening.

Senator Dooley asked for a debate on interest rates and stressed the moral obligation of the banks. He is quite right in that respect. Quite apart from the fact that they make large profits and have the financial competency to do what they want, they also have a moral obligation.

Senator Ulick Burke raised the issue of the farming community in the west suffering through the long-standing dispute in the Department of Agriculture and Food. I am aware that this is causing hardship. I understand that the first case was won, but that the second grouping lost its case. I am aware that the dispute is about promotions, but I do not know the exact details. We asked last week for the Minister for Agriculture and Food to come before the House to discuss the matter. Perhaps we might have the debate next week.

Brian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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To haunt us.

Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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No, it will just come back on to the agenda.

Senator Glynn referred to the enforcement of the regulations regarding carriage of particular kinds of offal. The Senator also described the way in which the banks are treating us as resembling the widows mite.

Senator Quinn spoke about the numbers of people driving on provisional licences and of those who are awaiting driving tests. The test and the licence are regarded as valid currency no matter where one goes in Europe, but not in the US or Canada.

The Senator also requested a tax on salt, too much of which in one's diet can lead to a heart attack or a stroke. There is salt in every foodstuff one buys, even before one is tempted to pour the contents of a salt cellar over one's food. However, I am not sure if there would be much support for imposing a tax on it.

Senator McHugh called for a debate on employment centred on an employment strategy to be developed, particularly for the north-western region, while Senator Bannon called for a debate with the Minister for Health and Children on the public health doctors' dispute which has been referred to the Labour Relations Commission on several occasions but progress does not seem to have been made on resolving it. Direct intervention is not possible on such a matter which is better left to the Labour Relations Commission to deal with.