Seanad debates

Tuesday, 27 May 2003

2:30 pm

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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The Order of Business today is No. 2, Criminal Justice (Illicit Traffic by Sea) Bill 2000 – Second Stage, to be taken at the conclusion of the Order of Business and conclude not later than 5.30 p.m., with the contributions of spokespersons not to exceed 15 minutes and those of all other Senators not to exceed ten minutes, and on which Members may share time, the Minister to be called on to reply not later than ten minutes before the conclusion of Second Stage at approximately 5.20 p.m., No. 3, statements on Sustaining Progress, to be taken at the conclusion of No. 2 or at 5.30 p.m., if the debate has not concluded earlier, and to conclude not later than 8 p.m., with the contributions of spokespersons not to exceed 15 minutes and those of all other Senators not to exceed ten minutes, and on which Members may share time, the Minister to be called on to reply not later than ten minutes before the end of statements at approximately 7.50 p.m.

Michael Finucane (Fine Gael)
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Last Wednesday we had an interesting debate on the third level fees issue, which has fizzled out with the Minister doing a dramatic U-turn on the matter. There was much rhetoric over a long period, which was best encapsulated by Deputy McGuinness of Fianna Fáil who said it was a bogus debate.

We should now concentrate on the recent report by the National Competitiveness Council and Forfás on Ireland's performance in the euro zone. Was it anticipated that Ireland would become the most expensive country in the euro zone, even more expensive than France and Germany? It is imperative that the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment comes to the House to see how we can address the issue. Over the past six years Ireland has had the highest inflation rate in Europe and it has caught up with us. There is transparency within the euro zone as a result of which other countries can compare our prices to theirs while Irish people can do likewise when they travel abroad.

The Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment should come to the House to debate the issue, which is relevant to the consumer who must pay a great deal more for groceries and in pubs and restaurants. This would be better than the House debating bogus issues that are not relevant. The Minister should outline her plans to reduce inflation and bring Ireland's rate into line with that in other European countries. I implore the Leader to get the Minister into the House.

Photo of Joe O'TooleJoe O'Toole (Independent)
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Each day our business begins with the Clerk of the Seanad reading a prayer in Irish and English. Is it possible to have the prayer read in one language only? It is not necessary to read the prayer twice in both languages.

Photo of Timmy DooleyTimmy Dooley (Fianna Fail)
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There is precedent.

Photo of Joe O'TooleJoe O'Toole (Independent)
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I am asking you to consider this, a Chathaoirligh.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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That is a matter for the Committee on Procedure and Privileges.

Photo of Joe O'TooleJoe O'Toole (Independent)
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Perhaps you will raise it at the committee. However, given that the Official Languages (Equality) Bill was passed in the House recently, it would be helpful if the prayer was read as Gaeilge amháin chun ár dtacaíochta a theaspáint don teanga.

I refer to the recent 15 page document published by the Taoiseach outlining the Government's record. Amazingly, people do not believe it. It is appalling that they would not believe what their Taoiseach is telling them about the Government's record. However, we should have a debate on the document in order to bring people along and encourage them. It would be helpful because this issue was raised previously. Members could express their views on the document during this important debate.

Photo of Timmy DooleyTimmy Dooley (Fianna Fail)
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We would be delighted to debate it.

Photo of Joe O'TooleJoe O'Toole (Independent)
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I know Government Senators are dying to have such a debate but we are confused on this side of the House. We have missed the point somewhere along the way.

Photo of Timmy DooleyTimmy Dooley (Fianna Fail)
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We stand over our record.

Photo of Joe O'TooleJoe O'Toole (Independent)
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The issue of prices and inflation, raised by Senator Finucane, can be discussed during the debate on Sustaining Progress. However, the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment has raised the issue of the groceries order on three or four occasions recently. I do not know what is the correct view to take. I suspect most of us are the same. We have received material for and against from all sides. It does not appear to have worked in terms of controlling prices. That is the only bottom line that I know. In my heart I feel it should be retained but my head tells me that if it is not working then maybe it should be changed.

I would like to hear from the Tánaiste, and I put it to the Leader that a debate would be very helpful. There are no differences on either side of the House on this issue. People have views in terms of wanting to protect small shops and various parts of industry and so on, but we also want to make sure that the consumer is getting the best deal possible. I do not know the answer but I ask that the Tánaiste come to the House and open up this debate. Let us have a debate without necessarily coming to a conclusion on it. Let us have information and hear views in order to help us to come to a conclusion on the best way forward before people start taking a stance for and against the Government position. It would be very useful to have a consultation and discussion at this point.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Regarding the point the Senator raised about the reading of the prayer, Standing Order 17 states that the prayer shall be read by the Clerk in the Irish and English languages.

Photo of Joe O'TooleJoe O'Toole (Independent)
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I am absolutely aware of that, a Cathaoirligh. I am not for one moment casting any aspersions on the Clerk. I am just asking whether we should change that Standing Order to state that the prayer need only be read as Gaeilge. That would do me fine.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator is aware of the procedure then.

Photo of Joe O'TooleJoe O'Toole (Independent)
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I am absolutely aware of the procedure. After listening to it every day for 17 years I have learnt it – slowly, but I have learnt it.

John Minihan (Progressive Democrats)
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Maybe the Senator should say it every day.

Kathleen O'Meara (Labour)
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The Order of Business is agreed and I support the calls for the Tánaiste to come to this House. However, I would like to put a different question to the Government, but in particular to the Tánaiste because clearly she is the person who can find money where nobody else can, particularly if it means keeping the coalition together and saving a Minister's career if that is required to keep the Government together. I particularly wish to ask the Tánaiste, given that she can find €30 million or €42 million to save the Government, if she could find a few million to give medical cards—

(Interruptions).

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Order, please. Senator O'Meara, without interruption.

Kathleen O'Meara (Labour)
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Perhaps the Tánaiste could find a few million to extend medical cards to those who were promised them. Maybe she could restore a few very badly needed community employment schemes, particularly in those areas where unemployment is rising by the day. Maybe she would be better off if she listened to those people.

I ask the Leader of the House to convene a debate as soon as possible on the report just published by the Convention on the Future of Europe. This House has played a valuable role in the past year in particular on this whole issue, having had members of the convention come to speak to us and to hear our views on the proceedings of the convention. If we have learnt any lessons from the Treaty of Nice and the debate on it, it is that early warning and early debate are extremely important. This House has a role to play in that. Clearly, some very important issues for the future of Europe and our role in the future of Europe, in particular as a small state, have emerged from the published report and I ask for a very early debate on it.

I also put it to the Leader of the House, as have other speakers, that we need to look at the whole issue of inflation. I know we will touch on it later today but I would particularly like to hear the views of the relevant Minister – I think it is the Minister for the Environment and Local Government – on the whole issue of retail strategy and, in particular, the size of very large out of town retail outlets sought by overseas companies wishing to come here and the potential effects on local industry and on towns which many of us represent. It is important that we do that at an early stage.

John Dardis (Progressive Democrats)
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I also ask the Leader to make time available for a debate on the report which has emerged from the Convention on the Future of Europe, both yesterday and today. We have had very good discussion here in the Seanad with the members of the convention, and in that context and the context of the work of the National Forum on Europe and the Joint Committee on European Affairs, it is important for the House to discuss this. There are issues, particularly with regard to the institutions, representation of Commissioners and whether the presidency of the Council should be a permanent position or at least held for a five year period rather than rotated, as at present. These are some of the aspects to which we should give considerable attention, particularly since it is a draft. We should give our views in support of the work being done by the Minister of State, Deputy Roche, whom I commend. Ultimately, this issue will be decided by an Intergovernmental Conference.

I support Senator O'Toole's comments about the euro and its appreciation against the dollar. Many of these aspects can be addressed in the debate on Sustaining Progress. Ultimately, competitiveness will decide whether we can keep our heads up in a trading sense concerning our exports to both the sterling and the US dollar areas. I am sure the Tánaiste would be quite happy to debate the competitiveness issue with us at some future date.

Jim Higgins (Fine Gael)
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If media reports are correct, it seems that the Minister for Agriculture and Food, Deputy Joe Walsh, and the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, Deputy Dermot Ahern, will have to make considerable concessions in the CAP and marine negotiations on fisheries policy and quotas, respectively. While we know we have done well out of the Common Agricultural Policy, this country is largely dependent on agriculture for sustaining a considerable tranche of the population. On fisheries policy, we can no longer afford to sell the family silver. We have seen our fishery grounds pillaged repeatedly. If free access is granted to the Irish Box, particularly to the Spanish, we will have considerable difficulty in developing our resources. Before too long, preferably next week, both Ministers should come to the House to spell out the Government's stance on the Fischler proposals and fisheries policy. We should give them whatever support and solidarity we can. It should not be a case of closing the door after the horse has bolted.

Photo of Terry LeydenTerry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I ask the Leader to provide time in early July to debate in detail the Forfás consumer pricing report of 2003, which places the Republic of Ireland second highest in the euro zone, next to Finland. Increases in Irish consumer prices in the past five years have sharply outpaced those of our European neighbours. To gauge reaction to the high prices, I am launching a "name and shame" consumer campaign today in conjunction with the Consumers Association of Ireland. I call on the general public to get involved in this campaign to expose the rip-off in consumer goods and services and the massive price hikes, which are making us uncompetitive. I want to empower the public to get involved in this campaign and to use – not abuse – parliamentary privilege, which will allow me to name the highest and lowest prices in Ireland when the campaign is finished in June. Furthermore, as Senator O'Toole said, on my journey from Roscommon to Dublin today, I passed 25 petrol stations and there was a difference of 11 cent in the price of a litre of unleaded petrol. Now is the time to take a stand.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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I am not sure how appropriate it is to continue the prayer because there are large numbers of people from different religions. Perhaps it would be better in Latin. As I have said before, there is a certain level of hypocrisy about it. As I am a regular churchgoer, this is not some kind of atheist position. There are many atheists, Jewish people and Muslims in this country.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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The prayer is a matter for the Committee on Procedure and Privileges.

Photo of Joe O'TooleJoe O'Toole (Independent)
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Some do not want to allow God to stay in the Constitution.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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We have gone through that already.

I support Senator Higgins in saying it is very important for us to give the maximum backing to the two Ministers. The Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, Deputy Dermot Ahern, seems to have held the line pretty well. When attempts were made to abolish the Irish Box altogether, he simply refused and indicated he would veto this. Concessions have already been made. No more should be made for precisely the reason stated by Senator Higgins. We cannot afford to let the Spanish destroy all our fishing stocks.

The Leader may agree with me that it might be appropriate for us to congratulate the national airline, Aer Lingus, on winning the award as the best value airline in Europe, despite the intervention of a mean-minded Mr. O'Leary, who is also very misinformed. He described the executives who voted for another prize as ignorant and stupid because they voted for an airline as being the best when it did not provide flights to England. I accept that it may not, perhaps, provide flights from Dublin, but I wonder if he has heard of a city called Cork? As someone who is geographically challenged, perhaps he could be informed that Cork is part of the Republic of Ireland.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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It is not in order to refer to people outside the House.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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Perhaps Mr. O'Leary's name can be removed from the record. Would that be in order?

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator is still out of order.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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I withdraw the mention of Mr. O'Leary immediately.

I wish to seek a debate on foreign affairs, with particular reference to the disastrous situation in the Congo. The Government has been misinformed because Ugandan troops and militia are still in that unfortunate country and they are raping its natural resources.

Will the Leader consider a date on which we could have an hour's debate on No. 13, motion 29, which asks the Governments of the United Kingdom and the United States, through the Minister, to observe the requirements in terms of the provision of medical aid? I am seeking such a debate because I tabled the motion at a meeting of the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs, where it was passed unanimously. If the Seanad also passed it, we could send it on with further strength to the Minister. It need not be an expanded debate. The Leader kindly facilitated us with a previous debate of this kind for an hour during lunchtime. That would be very welcome.

Photo of Mary WhiteMary White (Fianna Fail)
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I call on the Government to add Lissadell House, County Sligo, to its portfolio of heritage properties. Lissadell was the childhood home of Constance Markievicz, one of the most remarkable activists produced by revolutionary Ireland. She was born into an Anglo-Irish family and lived a life of luxury and elegance at Lissadell. She is immortalised in the beautiful painting outside the Chamber, which was painted by her husband, Count Casimir Markievicz. From 1908 Countess Markievicz turned her back on luxury and the welfare of the Irish people became her most absorbing interest. Constance was the first woman to be elected to the British Parliament in 1918 and the following year she became Minister for Labour in the first Dáil.

I call on the Minister for the Environment and Local Government, Deputy Cullen, to make a policy decision to purchase Lissadell House. I also call on the Minister of State at the Department of Finance with responsibility for the Office of Public Works, Deputy Parlon, to make the necessary arrangements to purchase and run Lissadell House. The house should not be put in mothballs but should be made available to local historical—

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator has made her point.

Photo of Mary WhiteMary White (Fianna Fail)
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—and community groups in the Sligo-Leitrim area.

Yesterday I received a delegation from Meánscoil Béal Feirste in west Belfast, the members of which are doing an examination in politics today in which there may be a question comparing the Seanad and the House of Lords. I learned yesterday that, thanks to the Leader, Senator O'Rourke, the Seanad meets twice as frequently as the previous Seanad and has brought through three times the volume of legislation. I congratulate the Leader in that regard.

Senators:

Hear, hear.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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I may not have been quoted accurately regarding Lissadell House last week—

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Order, please.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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I am not sure whether the Leader's illustrious predecessor would agree with everything Senator White said.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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A question on the Order of Business.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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The House met quite often when the Leader's predecessor held the office. However, I acknowledge that the current Leader has got twice as many Bills into the House as previously and we congratulate her on that.

I support Senator Finucane's request that the Leader ask the Tánaiste to come before the House for a debate on prices. There is a lot of variety here and we have a big problem in the services sector. I acknowledge what Senators O'Toole, O'Meara and Leyden said about the groceries order – I do not believe they will all lay the blame for current difficulties at its doorstep – which only covers basic foodstuffs. It is not exhaustive and does not cover all prices. As the Tánaiste said on 24 October 2000, it has done a very good job and that fact should be placed on the record.

Senator O'Meara mentioned the question of size which, as we know, is governed by retail planning guidelines which come under another Ministry. I understand the Minister for the Environment and Local Government, Deputy Cullen, has commissioned consultants to carry out a review, for which we may have to wait a while.

I acknowledge the Tánaiste has had a good win on the issue of college fees. She has found €12 million rather rapidly, or idle in a bottom drawer—

Kathleen O'Meara (Labour)
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She found €30 million.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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No, with respect, I think she found €12 million.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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What is your question, Senator?

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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I wish to move to a different subject. Will the Leader ask the Tánaiste to suspend immediately the reduction of 5,000 in the numbers participating in the community employment schemes at this time of economic downturn and lack of job opportunities for so many in the community and given what is happening in parishes and community and voluntary organisations? Since the situation is so difficult for older people who are long-term unemployed and there is much valuable work to be done, the people concerned should be given the opportunity to continue that work while they are able bodied. I call on the Leader to use her good offices with the Tánaiste to ensure this is done.

Maurice Hayes (Independent)
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I feel a little like a well-known golfer; I am coming second to everybody. However, he has started to win, too.

I support the request for debate on the report of the Convention on the Future of Europe. At the National Forum on Europe it was useful to have somebody there who actually knew what was contained in it. It is important that some or all of the Irish representatives, including the Minister of State, Deputy Roche, should be here to help the House through the intricacies of the debate. I know the Leader is keen to involve people. Javier Solana visited the House last week but went on to talk to the Oireachtas Joint Committee on European Affairs. It was a great pity we could not have had an hour with him. Perhaps we could look at this matter.

I also support the request for a debate on the Congo. It is an awful situation as anybody who read Fergal Keane's article in The Independent last Saturday would see. It would also give the United Nations a chance to rehabilitate itself. While I support the acquisition of Lissadell House, people need to think of a fitting and productive use for it – perhaps as an international Yeats study centre or something like it.

Last week we asked whether it was possible to find out the reasoning behind the report on which Special Olympics athletes were asked to absent themselves. Canada has now produced a different situation. I am not in favour of anybody being excluded but there should be parity of treatment and esteem. It would be helpful to know whether the report will be made available.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Before I call Senator Tuffy, I remind the House that some Senators will be disappointed because time is passing quickly. I ask Senators to be brief.

Photo of Joanna TuffyJoanna Tuffy (Labour)
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I support Senator Norris's request for a debate on post-war Iraq and the role of the United Kingdom and the United States in that regard. I welcome the agreement of the Israeli Government and the Palestinians to the roadmap peace plan, which I hope will progress and in relation to which Ireland should support efforts in any way it can. The House should discuss the matter of the post-war situation in Iraq to ensure peace in the Middle East and to see how Ireland, the United Nations and Europe can contribute.

Photo of Martin ManserghMartin Mansergh (Fianna Fail)
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I support the call for the acquisition of Lissadell House by the State because of its unique historical associations. Like Bantry House with the Tone exhibition and Strokestown House with the Famine exhibition, there should be an exhibition showing Countess Markievicz's role in the Citizens' Army, the early years of the labour movement with James Connolly and the 1916 Rising.

I will be very brief on the issue of the prayer because it is a matter for the Committee on Procedure and Privileges. We should, however, keep the prayer which, given that people from Northern Ireland visit from time to time, should remain bilingual, not monolingual.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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Congratulations seem to be the order of the day for the Leader.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator should speak to the Order of Business.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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I am glad she supported the motion from this side of the House last Wednesday which helped to scuttle the proposals of the Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Noel Dempsey, to introduce third level fees.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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To be fair to other Senators, the Senator should ask a question on the Order of Business.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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Will the Leader use her good influence to invite the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Harney, to debate the manner in which banks and other financial institutions are mounting charges on the customer? In the past week a number of banks have issued 14 and 15 page documents and guides to charges which are having a devastating effect on young people trying to pay back mortgages, etc. It is important that we have a debate on this subject. I hope the customer will not have to carry the can for rogue traders.

Photo of Camillus GlynnCamillus Glynn (Fianna Fail)
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I strongly support the call for a debate on the Forfás report. Recently, while travelling in the south of Ireland, I noticed a difference of 28 cent per litre in the price of diesel.

The catering trade is killing the goose that laid the golden egg. We are depending on tourism but the trade is contributing in no small measure to the rise in the consumer price index by adding two cents here and ten cents there to its prices and, in many cases, a further 10% or 15% in service charges. At least Dick Turpin was a decent man – he wore a mask.

Photo of Shane RossShane Ross (Independent)
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Talking of Dick Turpin, it might be appropriate to have a debate on chief executives' pay, which is becoming a significant issue in the United Kingdom and Ireland. They are paying themselves vast sums of money while their shareholders are losing vast sums. This has remained uncontested by the large fund managers for far too long.

Will the Leader state if we will have the debate on autism, of which she spoke last week?

Sheila Terry (Fine Gael)
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In a few weeks we will be welcoming athletes from around the world to Dublin and the rest of the country to participate in the Special Olympics. This is European Year of People with Disabilities. Therefore, it is time that we invited the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform and other relevant Ministers to debate all the issues concerning disability. People with disabilities are facing severe cuts in the services available to them. Eighteen year old disabled people will now have no places to go to in September. Respite care is being cut significantly. Cuts in residential day care places are also being made. This is very serious for many individuals and families. A full debate on all the issues concerning disability is long overdue in the Chamber.

Photo of Ulick BurkeUlick Burke (Fine Gael)
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Will the Leader request the Minister for the Environment and Local Government to come to the House as a matter of urgency to debate his withdrawal of the subsidy towards affordable housing? Many local authority housing programmes have been thrown into complete disarray as a result. It was amazing that the Taoiseach went to Galway last weekend and declared that an additional €15 million would be made available for the city. In fact, the local authority had already been notified. There is a huge breakdown in communications between individual Ministers and the Taoiseach. It is disgraceful that people who were providing houses for themselves will now be put back on the list for social housing because of the withdrawal of the subsidy.

Liam Fitzgerald (Fianna Fail)
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Nobody on the Opposition benches has had the magnanimity to do this but I welcome the decision by the Government, announced by the Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Noel Dempsey, to target an additional €42 million at the disadvantaged—

(Interruptions).

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Order, please.

Liam Fitzgerald (Fianna Fail)
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—with particular reference to access to third level education. I am disappointed with the response of both Fine Gael and Labour Party Senators because the acting leader of Fine Gael in the House referred to the debate as bogus.

Michael Finucane (Fine Gael)
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I was quoting Deputy McGuinness.

Liam Fitzgerald (Fianna Fail)
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Since when did the disadvantaged become a bogus entity and issues of disadvantage become irrelevant in the House? Does the word "bogus" refer to the fact that Opposition Senators tabled a one-liner, a cynical—

Michael Finucane (Fine Gael)
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That was Deputy McGuinness.

Liam Fitzgerald (Fianna Fail)
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That is certainly bogus. The word reflects on those Senators. The response of Labour Party Senators during the education debate was a cynical effort to deflect attention from the fact that when the Labour Party abolished university fees in 1994, it raided primary and post-primary funds—

(Interruptions).

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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It is time to put the motion.

Liam Fitzgerald (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the transition from Machiavelli's Student Prince to Milton's Paradise Lost by the leaders of the Opposition—

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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That is not relevant.

Liam Fitzgerald (Fianna Fail)
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—-who now seem to be more preoccupied—

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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The Student Prince is an operetta. The Prince is by Machiavelli.

Liam Fitzgerald (Fianna Fail)
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They are shifting the grounds of their argument every time they lose one.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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It is a very good operetta.

Liam Fitzgerald (Fianna Fail)
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I remind them that there was a sequel, Paradise Regained, but Senators should not hold their breath because one cannot regain what one has never had to lose.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Time is up, and there is another Senator to speak following Senator Cummins. I will do my best to accommodate them.

Photo of Maurice CumminsMaurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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The issue of the provision of a national sports stadium, be it in Abbotstown or wherever, seems to have been put on the backburner. May we ask the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism to come to the Chamber to explain Government policy in this area? It is another issue that divides the Government, one on which it is incapable of making a decision.

Photo of Joe McHughJoe McHugh (Fine Gael)
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In 1990 it took about 25 minutes to get from Ashbourne to Dublin city centre. In 2003 the journey takes one hour and ten minutes on average. On top of this—

(Interruptions).

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Senator McHugh, without interruption.

Photo of Joe McHughJoe McHugh (Fine Gael)
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I will let the people of Ashbourne know that Fianna Fáil find this a laughing matter. Some 20,000 people pass through the town daily. All we want are bus lanes – two bus lanes on a boreen from Dublin to Ashbourne – and a long-term plan for a bypass.

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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This is all very stirring.

The acting leader of the Opposition, Senator Finucane, talked about the report by the National Competitiveness Council and Forfás and again invited the Tánaiste to attend the House. She has assured me that she will do so at a time suitable to her and the House. We might then debate the report.

Senator O'Toole requested a debate on the 15 page document issued by the Government last week. Another document has now been produced.

Michael Finucane (Fine Gael)
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We cannot keep up with the programme. Senators on these benches are all confused.

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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It is a very good document. I suggest the Senator reads it.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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The Leader to reply without interruption, please.

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator also asked for a full debate on the groceries order. A common view among Senators who spoke on the issue today was the need for consumers to be alert and fight for their rights.

In relation to Senator O'Meara's query, it was not €42 million but €12 million that the Tánaiste's Department contributed to the fund to assist the disadvantaged in proceeding to third level education. Some €3 million will come from the budget of the Department of Education and Science. Next year the fund will come entirely from the latter budget. The Senator also called for a debate on the Convention on the Future of Europe and a discussion on the size of stores and retail policy.

Senator Dardis called for a debate on the Convention on the Future of Europe, which is clearly required now that its draft report has been issued. Senator Higgins said that the Minister for Agriculture and Food, Deputy Joe Walsh, and the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, Deputy Dermot Ahern, are facing huge challenges. The Senator called for a debate on fisheries policy, which I think will be necessary following the return of the Minister from Brussels tomorrow. I will endeavour to arrange the debate as soon as possible.

Senator Leyden has launched a timely "name and shame" campaign in the context of empowering consumers, and he called for a debate on the Forfás report. I will seek to have that debate soon and I wish the Senator luck with his campaign, which concerns an issue raised by many other Senators.

Senator Norris supported Senator Higgins with regard to fisheries policy. I share Senator Norris's admiration for Aer Lingus, and suspect the Senator will be hearing from the particular gentleman – MOL – whose name I am not allowed to say. The Senator called for a debate on foreign affairs and the occupation of post-war Iraq. There are several matters in that regard which I am chasing up to have ready for the week after next.

Senator White called for a debate on Lissadell House. I understand that the Minister for the Environment and Local Government, Deputy Cullen, and the Minister of State responsible for the Office of Public Works, Deputy Parlon, are having Lissadell House assessed as to its suitability and future. The Senator's point was timely and I thank her for the compliment.

Senator Paul Coghlan called for a debate on the services sector. He rightly pointed out that the groceries order deals with basic foodstuffs only. The Senator also raised the issue of community employment schemes.

Senator Maurice Hayes called for debates on the Convention on the Future of Europe, the situation in the Congo and the Special Olympics. He also supported Senator White's point concerning Lissadell House. Senator Tuffy raised the issues of Iraq and the road map for peace in the Middle East, on which debate would be timely.

Senator Mansergh supported Senator White on the issue of Lissadell House and put forward the idea that we should have an historic exhibition in the House on an ongoing basis, which could be changed or altered when necessary. While Senator O'Toole thought the prayer should be said in one language, Senator Mansergh thought the procedure should remain unchanged. The Committee on Procedure and Privileges, under your aegis, a Chathaoirligh, will consider the matter.

Senator Bannon wanted the Tánaiste to come to the House to discuss bank and other financial charges being levied on consumers. Senator Glynn referred to a 28 cent difference per litre of diesel which he noticed at different filling stations during a southern journey. He also drew attention to the catering trade, which receives strong mention in the Forfás report in regard its contribution to inflation.

Senator Ross raised the issue of chief executives' pay. When I began speaking about that issue some years ago, I was damned absolutely. The UK takes this matter very seriously and we should also. We ought to have the autism debate when the House returns after the non-sitting week.

Senator Terry called for a debate on disabilities and the cuts in respite care. Senator Ulick Burke wants me to ask the Minister for the Environment and Local Government to the House. I am not sure about this as I have no knowledge of the withdrawal of €15 million in subsidies from social and affordable housing schemes. I will inquire about it but the matter has not come to my attention.

Photo of Ulick BurkeUlick Burke (Fine Gael)
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It is a painful extraction.

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Fitzgerald has always been a stalwart at every level of the education debate. The Senator praised the measures just announced for disadvantaged students, measures which show that much good can come out of a furore. I do not think that any Member would be ungenerous and not acknowledge that.

Senator Cummins asked that the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism be invited to the House to discuss the national sports stadium. Senator McHugh referred to the need for bus lanes from Dublin to Ashbourne and the length of time it took him to get to Dublin today. We are all glad the Senator made it to the House. The Minister for Transport is in charge of bus lanes now. On the next occasion he comes before the House, we will discuss that matter with him.

Order of Business agreed to.