Patricia Stephenson (Social Democrats) | Oireachtas source

I really appreciate the complexities around government and running a country. I do not believe we should shy away from that but we need to make sure that evolution is happening in a way that is meaningfully considered. Senator Craughwell said it might make for better management. I would like us to make this decision on evidence. I will introduce an amendment later that requests a report within three months and, instead of approving this Bill, we would have a report looking at the evidence base. We have had very little meaningful discussion. We as legislators have not been provided with evidence that more Ministers of State will indeed make the State run more efficiently. It seems to be taken as read and as assumed that having more Ministers of State will make the work more efficient, but I do not want to take that as assumed. I would like a report with evidence that actually points to it, including data evidence and compelling business cases. We heard anecdotally this morning about different areas, including for older people, but why can we not put that into reports so we are making this decision on an evidence base?

We all have a responsibility, as we are all deeply aware, to the taxpayers. We have a plethora of examples within the past few months - even from yesterday but I will not go into the details - of spending not being made well. The public are not happy about that. Let us not make that same mistake again with this where we are just making a decision without evidence and without proper consideration. We do not want to undermine public trust in the decisions we make. I believe that making this decision without proper evidence and without a report will be doing that.I am not inherently opposed to the idea of expanding the number of Ministers of State for the work if it needs to be done but I believe that discussion and decision need to be based on evidence, facts and figures. I very much request that, instead of it falling into this Bill, the Government lays a report before both Houses on why this makes sense and why it is good value for money for the taxpayer prior to increasing the number of Ministers of State. I do not believe we can meaningfully evaluate and legislate on it without this report.