Jillian van Turnhout (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I also welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Dara Murphy, to the Chamber and thank him for the calming effect he has obviously had on this House. It allows us to have a constructive important debate on penal reform.

I commend and thank Senator Bacik and her colleagues in Labour on giving us this opportunity to have a debate on penal reform. I also join in the welcome by Senator Bacik to the visitors in the Gallery. I thank them for all the work that they do. It is greatly appreciated by us.

I understand the Minister of State stood in at short notice. If he is not in a position to answer, I would appreciate a follow-up in writing to them because some are quite specific.

I commend the hard work, dedication and expertise that went into both projects and I welcome the positive contribution they make to achieving a fairer and more robust penal policy in Ireland. The strategic review of penal policy states "the overarching purpose of criminal and penal policy should be to make Ireland a safer and fairer place". They go on to state that "any penal system which does not aspire to a reduction in offending behaviour as a key goal is failing in its purpose". Everybody can agree with that.

However, we only need to look at the higher recidivism rates, recorded by the CSO, by those who received a custodial sentence versus those who received a community based sanction, and the fact that prison fundamentally harms and damages already harmed and damaged individuals, to know that prison should only be used as a measure of last resort. Rhetoric suggests that we have accepted this principle, but our rates of committal to prison under sentence and the increasing number of committals for periods of less than three and six months means that Ireland has one of the most punitive criminal justice systems in Europe. There is far greater scope, both in policy and legislation, to extend the principle of detention as a last resort, an already well established principle in international and domestic law for children, to the adult justice system.

Speaking of children in detention, although not named in the recommendations of either report, I understand it was a feature of the discussions for both and I raise the following matter. The number of children detained on remand in Ireland, particularly the significant percentage of whom who do not go on to receive a custodial sentence, raises serious concerns about Ireland's compliance with the detention as a last resource principle for children which also incorporates a presumption against detention for children accused of criminal offences, that is, remand. I ask the Minister's opinion on the practice in the Children Court of remanding children for assessment despite section 88(13) of the Children Act clearly stipulating that the court should not remand a child in detention solely on the basis of care or protection concerns. Second, I ask how the absence of a formal system of bail supports and services in Ireland impacts on a child's ability to meet his or her bail conditions, and the consequence risk of he or she receiving a custodial remand for failure to comply.

Like practically everyone in this House, I warmly welcome the concerted efforts of the Government to end the practice of detaining children in prison which is in breach of international human rights standards. However, according to the daily prison numbers, on Friday, 31 October, there were eight 17 year old boys detained on remand in St. Patrick's Institution and I must ask when this practice will finally end. In the interests of transparency and to better monitor progress, will the Minister direct the Irish Prison Service to identify the number of 17 year old boys detained in Wheatfield Prison in its daily prisoner population breakdown so that we all are clear and, hopefully, can celebrate soon when children are no longer in prison?

Senator Bacik raised the issue of those aged 18 to 21 years and I ask a specific question of the Minister. Considering the extensive evidence supporting the need for differential treatment of those aged 18 to 21 years in the criminal justice system, does the Minister intend to act on recommendation 4 of the strategic review group report and extend programmes, including, for example, the youth diversion programme, to this age cohort? This would be a welcome measure.

Finally, I was interested by a comment made recently by Fr. Peter McVerry at the 12th Annual Human Rights Conference, at which the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Frances Fitzgerald, also spoke. He queried why, 37 years after the introduction of the Misuse of Drugs Act 1977 which allows the courts to detain a person convicted of possession in a designated custodial treatment centre as an alternative to a custodial sentence, no such custodial treatment centre exists.

Some 37 years later, we do not have the centre. Fr. Peter McVerry was commenting on the revolving door reality of prison with drug users going in and coming out of prison because of their addiction. They continue to use drugs while incarcerated and immediately seek out drugs on their release. He spoke of how many on remand were reluctant to take up bail until a scantily available place has been secured in a treatment facility. The drug epidemic in Ireland continues to blight lives, families and communities and fuels criminality. We should consider the option of an alternative to prison and put it in place.

I thank Senator Bacik and her colleagues in the Labour Party for affording us this opportunity to debate it and I hope this will lead to the continuation of discussions on penal reform. I hope that we will see that the reports will progress and come to life.