Martin Conway (Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

Go raibh maith agat. I welcome my good friend and Minister of State to the House. It is great to have him here and he is very welcome. I hope this is the first of many visits by him to Seanad Éireann. He will find that the level of debate here is probably a little more collegial than in the other House. Although the events of this morning would make him think otherwise.

As always, Senator Bacik has come forward with a very thought-provoking Private Members' motion which has resulted from enormous dedication by her to the issue in the first place. Before I ever got to know her I was aware of her work on penal reform. Of course, that is only one of many strings to her bow but, in particular, penal reform is an issue on which she has been very strong.

I wish to put on the record of this House my disappointment that only two people from the entire Houses of the Oireachtas attended today's launch of Ruhama's report into the abuse of women involved in prostitution in this country. Irish Water is a big issue and other issues are big issues. What about the human rights of vulnerable citizens in this country and vulnerable people who visit this country but end up doing so against their will because they are trafficked here? In my view their human rights are a much more fundamental issue than the human right to water. We are missing a briefing in the AV room on Irish Water but we are probably better off being here discussing Senator Bacik's Private Members' motion than listening to Irish Water.

The work done by the Oireachtas justice committee's sub-committee on penal reform is provocative, groundbreaking and will make a difference if implemented. It is timely for us to discuss its recommendations and the whole issue of penal reform in this House. The sub-committee's work was detailed and forensic. The various stakeholders were brought into the committee where they made their submissions. There was a very healthy and useful exchange of views and the report is groundbreaking.

During my period on the committee we have visited Mountjoy Prison and Cork Prison. Some of the developments are very welcome, particularly the elimination and progressive elimination of slopping out. The fact that a new prison will be built in Cork is very welcome. The living standards in the prison were and will remain inhumane until such time as the new prison is up and running.

We are a First World country. We have responsibilities, in terms of human rights, in how we treat prisoners. Rehabilitation, education and preparing prisoners for release is critical in the area of penal reform. If somebody is given a five-year sentence for a crime, it is no use unless he or she is rehabilitated going out into the world. Within the prison system, we need to take a serious look at education, counselling and therapy, in particular, in the area of restorative justice.

When I tabled a motion here on restorative justice two years ago, I was amazed at the number of Members who approached me beforehand to know what was restorative justice. I must admit I only became aware of the principle of restorative justice a number of months prior to that. Restorative justice is working well in various parts of the world. Interestingly, it is working well in Northern Ireland.

More interestingly, it is working well where it is being piloted in this country. It is being piloted in north Tipperary as a result of the ground-breaking views of Judge Reilly, who believed in the principle and practice of restorative justice. It is also working well in south Dublin. Where those who have been involved in crime enter programmes of restorative justice with their victims, it has proven to be an extremely positive experience with re-offending rates dropping by 60% to 70%. Where, for instance, a perpetrator hears the testimony from the victim of the effect of snatching a handbag, which, to the perpetrator, might be a laugh and might not be considered a serious crime, but which can have a devastating effect and put the fear of God into a person, perhaps a lady going about her daily work, and the perpetrator realises this through proper restorative justice programmes, it is through an inherent human nature in the vast majority that such crime can be reduced.

The motion that was passed unanimously in this House called on the Government to extend the pilot programme on a national basis. That is something that I would like to see happen in the lifetime of this Government. It probably will not. Even if there was a commitment that it would happen incrementally, perhaps province by province over a number of a years, it would be a welcome development.

I welcome the fact that the Minister committed to establishing a community court in Dublin city. It, too, is a motion that I, in my capacity as Fine Gael spokesperson on justice and equality, tabled here. It also received unanimous support in this House because it makes absolute sense. Community courts have worked incredibly well in New York city. They have dramatically reduced crime levels. A community court is where one brings the various stakeholders, whether it is probation, addiction counselling or social work, together under one roof and proper early interventions can be made. Cases can be adjourned until such time as these interventions have taken place and effective reporting is undertaken. The Minister is brave to have committed to setting that up, between Store Street and Pearse Street Garda stations. It will be interesting to see the results of the pilot community court in Dublin. If it works, it could be extended to some of the other cities, such as Galway, Cork and Limerick.

We need to look at alternative ways of dealing with matters of justice because prison is rarely the answer. If we can identify alternative ways, not only does it reduce the numbers going to prison but it is much more cost effective. Furthermore, it protects the sense of purpose and well-being of the offenders, many of whose offences are minor and many of whom, if they are got in time, will not re-offend.