Brian Hayes (Fine Gael)

Without detaining the House for too long I wish to refer to a number of points. Amendment No. 52 is crucial. I also was not aware that members of the Garda Síochána did not have to account for their actions. It shocked most members of the public when this came out from the Morris tribunal report. Senator Maurice Hayes is also right to state the entire objective of this is to challenge independent fiefdoms that might exist within some parts of the force and to ensure that an essential ingredient must be that the duty of members of the Garda Síochána includes accounting for themselves.

I have a question on the use of the phrase "higher ranks". The new section 35, at subsection (1), states: "A member of the Garda Síochána shall, when directed to do so by a member of a higher rank, account for any act done or omission made by the member while on duty". To take the Donegal situation, if I were an ordinary member of the force returning to the station late at night, how realistic is it that a sergeant or inspector in a local station will ask me, an officer he meets every day, to account for my whereabouts and actions during the previous three or four hours? The collegiality of the force is as it is.

Would it be more sensible to specify a higher rank of superintendent or deputy superintendent from another district? Realistically, people will not pose the difficult questions within a station because people who work together every day feel a personal commitment to each other. I ask the Minister to outline his rationale behind the phraseology of "higher rank". Why did he not specify a higher rank from another district as a means of ensuring that this information would be obtained when someone was asked to account for their activities?

With regard to amendment No. 53, it is shocking that a free Government of this State would regularly not get information on highly sensitive matters of public concern from the senior office-holder in the force. I read the comments the Minister made in the other House last Friday week when he informed the public of the time lag and delay before his Department received a full report from the Garda Síochána. It is not good enough in any democracy that a political master, responsible to the House for the actions of the force in a general policy sense, must prise information from the force. I accept the Minister's best motives with regard to amendment No. 53 but it is shocking that it needs to be put into legislation in the first place.

I have one question on amendment No. 54 on the duty of the Garda Commissioner to provide information to the Minister. What happens if a complaint is made either to the ombudsman commission or the inspectorate whereby information is flowing from the Garda Síochána to both of those bodies and the Minister also wants that information? Would the Minister be precluded from obtaining that information already sent to the ombudsman commission or inspectorate? I pose that question because it appears that situation would be conflictual if it were to emerge.

On amendment No. 55, I welcome that the Minister is updating what I understand is a part in the 1922 Dublin Metropolitan Police Act. There is a substantial power in this new section, which goes back to something Senator Coonan mentioned earlier. As I understand it, previous grievances can now be examined by this person the Minister can appoint. That is important because there are substantial grievances persons may want inquired into in a way that is outlined in amendment No. 55. I ask the Minister to clarify that. For example, subsection (9) of the new section states that the section applies even if the matter considered by the Minister to be of public concern arose before the passing of this Act. It is clear that it is the Minister's decision. It is clear also that questions could be put to him in the other House as to the reason he has or has not decided to ask this special investigator, as it were, to investigate that cause of concern. That is important because we can at least say to the public at large that even if the ombudsman commission cannot examine every issue retrospectively, and I understand what the Minister is trying to do here, there is a mechanism in place to examine past grievances and some political control as to how we can do that. That is important.