Mark Wall (Kildare South, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

83. To ask the Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection to provide the number of requests for an oral hearing over the past four years; the number of oral hearings that have been held virtually, in-person and over the phone, in the past four years, in tabular form; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [50021/25]

Mark Wall (Kildare South, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I think we can all agree on the importance of oral hearings as part of the social welfare appeals process. To that end, I ask the Minister to set out the number of requests for oral hearings over the past four years, and the number of oral hearings held virtually, in person and over the phone.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I thank the Deputy. Oral hearings on social welfare appeals can be held virtually, in person or by phone. In 2024, there were 432 oral hearings, comprising 120 in person, 53 by phone and 259 virtually. The figure has fallen considerably in recent years but that has to be set against the backdrop of a number of things. When a case is assigned to an appeals officer, the officer examines the documentary evidence presented and considers if the appeal can be properly and fairly decided by way of a summary decision. Where there is a conflict in the evidence provided that would materially affect the question under consideration, the appeals officer will consider if the conflict could be resolved at an oral hearing and will make the arrangements for that hearing to take place.

Appeals officers are statutorily independent in the exercise of their powers, including with respect to whether to hold an oral hearing. However, in order to increase transparency around that, the social welfare appeals regulations 2024 came into effect on 28 April 2025. They established for the first time the legal right of an appellant to request an oral hearing. Appeals officers must consider these requests. Where it is decided not to hold an oral hearing, the appeals officer must provide reasons in writing as to why this is the case. The ability to request a hearing and to be provided with reasons as to why a hearing is or is not being held did not exist prior to these regulations.

The new appeals functionality on MyWelfare means appellants can now easily transmit documentation and evidence to the relevant scheme area and the appeals office electronically. This can mean that evidence that previously would not have been available to an appeals officer until an oral hearing can be provided earlier in the process and is resulting in appeals officers being able to decide a higher number of cases on a summary basis.

Mark Wall (Kildare South, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I thank the Minister for the reply. My concern is that a reply to a parliamentary question from my colleague, Deputy Duncan Smith, stated that social welfare held 5,397 oral hearings in 2018 and the Minister has confirmed that the 2024 figure was down to 432. I am sure the Minister gets many requests for appeals. I know my office does. One of the mechanisms my office has used is the appeals process, in particular the oral hearing, because it gives the appellant the chance to meet somebody in person and face to face, to see the whites of their eyes and make sure every part of the evidence they can get out gets out. We seem to have gone back to a reliance on virtual interactions, which is a backward step. I ask the Minister to assure us oral hearings will continue and that where a request is made, even under those regulations, no obstacles to oral hearings are being put in place by the Department.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I can absolutely assure the Deputy that oral appeals will continue. The regulations are now there for people to request them. However, things have changed and the functionality available on MyWelfare.ie gives much more information earlier in the process, which leads to a situation where the oral hearing is not as important as it may once have been. I assure the Deputy oral appeals will continue to happen and I will continue to monitor the figures. My main focus at the moment is working with the appeals office to get through any backlogs. We have appointed 20 new appeals officers this year and are getting through the backlog.

Mark Wall (Kildare South, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I have to disagree on the importance of oral hearings. Much as virtual contact is good and modern, I deal with many people who cannot come to terms with that new technology. I used to attend 30 to 40 oral hearings. I am sure other Members of the House used to attend them as well. I have hardly attended one in the past two years because of the lack of oral hearings being held. When you are sitting beside somebody and they are putting across their case, they have an independent person - it has to be an independent person who is not medical - and that person sees what the appellant has gone through. That is the importance of oral hearings. That is why we should allow oral hearings in every case where a request has gone in. Virtual is great but, unfortunately, for a large proportion of the people who come through my office, it is not good enough and they are not in a position to use the virtual part of MyWelfare. Oral hearings had and still have a huge part to play in the social welfare appeals process.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I do not disagree. We have all done oral hearings and they are very important. As the Deputy said, it is about seeing the white of a person's eye and having that interaction. There is a mix of the traditional oral hearing and the other options available to get a decision quicker and get through the process quicker. I assure the Deputy I do not intend to discourage the use of oral hearings. They are an important part of the process.