Catherine Callaghan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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6. To ask the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence if he will, in the interests of equity, seek an increase in cadets' pay to bring it in line with the starting pay of a three-star private given both are similarly trained and qualified; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [49483/25]

Catherine Callaghan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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In the interests of equity, will the Tánaiste seek an increase in the starting pay of cadets to bring it line with the starting pay of a three-star private, as both are similarly trained and qualified?

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy as one of the few Members who has worn the uniform and represented our country with distinction in Óglaigh na hÉireann and indeed in southern Lebanon. She is someone who can speak with authority on a lot of these issues. I thank her for raising the matter.

She will be aware that there has been significant progress made on pay and conditions for Defence Forces personnel, particularly over the past six years. The starting pay of a school-leaver cadet, on commissioning, was €30,884 in 2019. As of 1 August this year, that same school-leaver cadet, on commissioning to second lieutenant, is paid €45,795, an increase of 49% between now and 2019. These are figures we do not talk about. We talk about recruitment challenges. People need to start telling their constituents and get this message out there - it is €45,795, an increase of 49% since 2019. After two years at that rank, they are then promoted and their pay rises to €51,184. Where a graduate joins, the pay rate on commissioning begins at €51,184. These rates all include pensionable military service allowance.

In May 2019, a newly qualified three-star private could have expected to earn €27,759 gross per annum on completion of his or her initial training. This has now increased to €41,880. That is €27,000 to €41,000 since 2019. These are big improvements and rightfully so.

As the Deputy will be aware, different pay scales also apply during the training period for both cadets and recruits. The current pay scale applicable to cadets ranges from €25,748 to €38,526, depending on qualification. In addition, cadets are provided with accommodation with meals free of charge for the duration of their training, as part of their overall package.

The Deputy has referenced the fact that cadets are similarly trained and qualified as three-star privates during the first six months of training, and while I very much appreciate that point made, cadets are required to complete a further period of training of approximately 11 months before they are commissioned and operational. In summary, cadets are not available for duty following their initial six months training and therefore the comparison is not entirely equal. During their training periods, cadets and recruits are not paid the military service allowance. I will come back in a moment.

Catherine Callaghan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Tánaiste. I acknowledge his work to date on improving pay and conditions, some of which he has outlined such as quite rightly increasing pay for three-star privates and reforming the apprenticeship pathway so that technical staff beginning their careers in the Defence Forces correspond with three-star privates after six months. The Tánaiste has also overseen the introduction of the instructor's allowance and established a service commitment scheme for our air traffic controllers in the Air Corps. These are all developments that should quite rightly be applauded.

However, at present, everyone else in the Defence Forces is on approximately €43,000 after six months but cadets remain on the €25,000. I understand the points the Tánaiste outlined but in this post-2013 era of career average earnings and pensions, these cadets are getting penalised on the double in their current pay and future pensions. As we all know, cadets can now join up to the age of 39 so it is conceivable that they have families and mortgages. A business case was prepared by the Defence Forces on foot of a motion asking for this to be looked at. Can the Tánaiste please confirm if this case has been progressed?

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I can confirm that this matter was raised with the Department by military management and that business case was subsequently shared with the Department of Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation. The Representative Association for Commissioned Officers, RACO, has also raised it with the Department on a number of occasions during its formal conciliation council meetings with the Department. Since the signing of the public service agreement to which members of the Permanent Defence Force are a party, all cost increasing claims can be channelled through the local bargaining process. As I said a moment ago, local bargaining discussions are under way between the Department of Defence, military authorities and the military representative associations. Parties can bring forward proposals up to a maximum value equivalent to 3% of basic pay, with 1% to be paid from the current agreement, and the balance to be addressed in any successor agreement. There is an opportunity to examine pay and conditions, including cadet pay, through this process.

I am pleased that interest in applying for a cadetship remains extremely high, with 1,819 applicants this year alone, and the Permanent Defence Force is currently in the process of making offers to successful candidates. It is anticipated that a class of 80 cadets will be inducted in October. I am also pleased the business case is with the Department of Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and I will continue to keep the Deputy up to date on that.

Catherine Callaghan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Tánaiste, and I am happy to hear that it is with the Department of Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation. I implore him to follow that matter up with the Department, as neither the conciliation and arbitration scheme or national pay talks are going to address this low pay, given the no cost increasing caveat in the national pay deals, as he mentioned. Therefore, some political will is required here to address the matter. Local bargaining is not going to be enough. In the spirit of fair pay for a fair day's work, let us be very clear: our members of the Defence Forces do not just do any old job. They serve this country and bring honour to this country both here and abroad. On their behalf and on behalf of their families, I ask the Tánaiste to continue to liaise with the Department of Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation to seek an increase in cadets' pay to bring it in line. As the system currently stands, it takes up to five years for a cadet's salary to equalise with non-commissioned soldiers in an instance where both military personnel begin their service on the same day and are both similarly trained and qualified.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I acknowledge the point the Deputy made. The men and women of Óglaigh na hÉireann, those who serve our country and wear the uniform, do absolutely serve with distinction. I am extraordinarily proud of them and the honour they bring here, at home and abroad. I know that is a sense shared across this House and certainly across society as well. I thank RACO and PDFORRA for the advocacy they carry out on behalf of their members and for that good structure we have to engage with them.

As I have said, a business case has been prepared on this issue regarding cadets. It has been submitted to the Department of Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and there are opportunities to consider these. I reference the local bargaining because it is there and focuses all of our minds on prioritising what is next with respect to improving terms and conditions. There will also be successor pay agreements in the not-too-distant future. I am certainly eager to keep in touch with the Deputy, RACO and others in relation to this in the weeks and months ahead.