Pádraig Rice (Cork South-Central, Social Democrats)
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21. To ask the Minister for Health if her Department has received a copy of a 2017 report into paediatric urology services, known as the Dickson report (details supplied); if her Department was made aware of the existence of this report by Children’s Health Ireland, CHI, or anyone from Temple Street or Crumlin hospitals prior to CHI’s establishment; her views on CHI’s decision not to publish the report; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [34815/25]

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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On 19 June, CHI advised the Joint Committee on Health that neither Temple Street nor Crumlin hospitals accepted the Dickson report when it was completed in 2017. My Department received a copy of the report on Friday, 20 June and my officials are reviewing it. I will be seeking assurance from CHI that the matters raised in the report have been addressed.

In light of concerns raised in relation to corporate and clinical governance concerns at CHI, as the Deputy is aware, I have appointed two HSE board members to the CHI board. We discussed yesterday the changes to the service level agreement, the role of the HSE and the internal audit being conducted by the HSE. I do not wish to disrespect the Deputy by repeating those issues he already knows about, but all of those governance changes are being made with a view to supporting the new CEO as she continues to establish her executive team. She needs to implement the recommendations of a range of different reports and at the same time take CHI forward in a constructive and positive way towards the new hospital but also towards the delivery of better paediatric services across this country.

On the Deputy's direct question around the Dickson report, my Department received it on Friday, 20 June and is reviewing it. I can engage with the Deputy further on it.

Pádraig Rice (Cork South-Central, Social Democrats)
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A number of patient advocacy groups and parents have for a long time been calling for this report to be published. I urge the Minister to consider that and to consider publishing that report along with the others. What we have seen time and again from CHI are issues around transparency, accountability and a reluctance to release information, and we have had to drag that information from the organisation, which is deeply concerning.

It indicates to me that the culture in the organisation is not changing. This is another example of it. Last week we raised the internal investigation with CHI. Its officials told the Joint Committee on Health they would provide us with the legal advice on that internal investigation. We have not received that legal advice from them. CHI did publish a summary, as the Minister mentioned. Is it her view that that summary of the internal investigation is a true reflection of the full report?

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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I could say about the summary that it is CHI's view that this is the best it can do, recognising some of the HR and legal constraints. I want to see the report published in the broader public interest but it is not necessarily the case that in every instance it should be published. In particular, I am concerned that this was a HR report where people who might be constituents of the Deputy, and for whom he might take a protective trade union perspective as well, participated in a process to try to address a significant cultural issue. It would be very difficult for those people to talk about the experiences they had in this HR process and for their comments to be published in the public domain. While we are trying to get to the issues relating to culture and to governance, I understand the difficulty there for those individuals and CHI's perspective on that.

In relation to the legal advice, in general that is a matter for CHI and the committee directly.

Pádraig Rice (Cork South-Central, Social Democrats)
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I thank the Minister. There are ways of publishing these reports that anonymise the individuals and redact information that is key but then provide full transparency and accountability because trust in this organisation is now at an all-time low. Families are deeply concerned. We need more information released and more publications. Sunlight is a good disinfectant and CHI has been at every stage reluctant to release information to us.

I also raise concerns about some of the answers to parliamentary questions we are getting from CHI. Its officials are reluctant to answer reasonable questions we are putting to them. I have no doubt they will be before the health committee again. We have a long list of questions to put to CHI. I have concerns around the pace at which the culture is changing. It seems to me that culture change is not happening quickly enough. That reluctance to release information persists and we have seen that time and again with report after report and the one referenced here is another example of that.

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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I very much respect the Deputy's perspective on that and on the culture piece. I had a good meeting with the new CEO, Lucy Nugent, where I was very clear and reiterated that this is a new CHI for the future with a new executive management team, a new approach and a new culture. She needs that team around her to be able to implement that new culture. She is coming from Tallaght, where there has been good success and where she has a very strong track record in relation to that. I take the Deputy's perspective on the response to parliamentary questions and other matters very importantly and seriously. There is never a difficulty in being forthcoming with information to the extent that it is appropriate legally and from that HR perspective but there is a way in which you can lean in and provide better confidence.

I would be careful with phrases such as "confidence is on the floor". People are attending Crumlin and Temple Street hospitals today. I was there last week. I have a lot of confidence in the medical team there. I have a lot of confidence in the nurse specialists who listened to my voicemail and rang me back and the service and support I receive. That is the majority experience of Crumlin and Temple Street. There is a very important set of problems that we have to address but the majority experience is positive. I have parents contacting me to continue to make that point about their experience. This is parents and children at very vulnerable moments going in to receive hospital care and they are getting it.

We have a body of work together as a Legislature but we just need to be careful about the experience that they are having as well to make sure that we are reflecting it in a universal way.