Naoise Ó Cearúil (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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97. To ask the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport the expected timeline for the roll-out of contactless fare payments on all public transport; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [34135/25]

Joe Neville (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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98. To ask the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport if an interim measure, such as payment by app, which happens in other cities, could be explored for public transport until contactless payment becomes an option; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [33948/25]

Barry Heneghan (Dublin Bay North, Independent)
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102. To ask the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport if he will provide an update on the roll-out of contactless fare payments across public transport services, including buses and trains; the expected timeline for full implementation; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [34183/25]

Naoise Ó Cearúil (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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We have seen the extension of contactless fare payments in cities such as London, Edinburgh, Barcelona and Milan, as well as in the Netherlands. I am looking for the expected timeline for the roll-out of contactless fare payments on all public transport.

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 97, 98 and 102 together.

I thank an Teachta Ó Cearúil. For background, the next generation ticketing project, led by the NTA, is for a new, modern public transport ticketing system that will facilitate a variety of payment methods for passengers, including contactless.

In April 2024, the NTA with Government approval entered into a multiyear framework agreement for next generation ticketing with Indra Sistemas S.A. to deliver this project. The initial focus is on the greater Dublin area and it will be rolled out across four phases. This is a major, complex project, with a capital cost of over €160 million - €160 million in Exchequer funds is being invested in this project - to implement it in the greater Dublin area alone, covering the costs of the enabling works to install new equipment for transport operators and the costs for the NTA team delivery team overseeing the project.

Phase 1 of the project in the greater Dublin area is due to launch in summer 2027. I am happy to be able to give that date. We will need to keep a close eye on the progress being made. That will be significant because it will test contactless payment on a small number of new validators or ticket machines. Phase 2 will be ready for summer 2028, allowing passengers on Dublin Bus and Luas services to use the next generation ticketing technology, including contactless payments on validators.

The NTA and Indra are currently planning phase 3, which is implementation across Iarnród Éireann's train services, and phase 4, which is implementation on commuter bus services in and out of Dublin. The NTA will be in a better position to provide timelines once planning is complete.

The timelines are not bad. It is summer 2027 for phase 1. I would like to see that shortening for phases 2, 3 and 4. The fundamental thing is to get the IT system in place. This will be account-based as well. It will be better than the system in Britain, which people might be used to if they use tap-on and tap-off, because they will also be able to have accounts. I am interrogating those timelines.

This would be transformative for our transport system across all bus, rail, Luas and DART services. In the meantime, and as an interim measure, Iarnród Eireann already provides for passengers to download a QR code to their phone, removing the need for a physical ticket on longer journeys. Obviously, we have the Leap card as well, which I use. In addition, the NTA's barcode-based app, TFI Go, already allows customers to buy a range of tickets for bus services outside Dublin, including on all Bus Éireann public service obligation services, Dublin commuter routes operated by Go-Ahead Ireland and all local link rural services nationwide. As part of the young adult fares scheme, 27 private bus operators already sell their tickets on the TFI Go app.

It is good news that this is being advanced. It is a significant investment on behalf of our people, but it is a critical project. I am not at all questioning the complexities involved, but I want to interrogate those timelines further. If we can get phase 1 going by summer 2027, I would be content with that. However, I am not sure I want to wait until summer 2028 for phase 2. I do not yet have timeframes for phases 3 and 4. I will meet with the NTA to discuss this matter shortly. I have already met with the NTA a number of times in respect of it. The Government is committed to this. I want to see it in place; done correctly, obviously, and in a timely fashion.

Naoise Ó Cearúil (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister has announced extremely positive news here this evening that is extremely welcome. It would be great to see a breakdown of the timelines. What do we need to do in order to get to the first phase in the summer of 2027? Is there a need for procurement of IT systems? Are particular systems for buses, etc., required? It would be great to see the routes included in phase 1 as well. Would it be possible to expedite those later phases? We have to wait until the summer of 2028 for phase 2. Phase 3 relates to Iarnród Éireann and phase 4 relates to commuter buses. Obviously, the vast majority of people who commute to Dublin, particularly from Kildare North, do so by bus or rail. If we could get a breakdown to ensure we meet those timelines and to see if they could be expedited it would be very beneficial.

Joe Neville (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Can we get a contactless payment system in the interim? Obviously, the timelines have been highlighted. It might be another two, three or four years before things happen. Could we look at putting in place an interim measure that whereby people could use app to make contactless payments? Coming from north Kildare, it does not seem reasonable that we should expect it to take three or four years.

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Neville may have missed the final part of my answer. TFI has the TFI Go app in place, and we have Leap cards as an interim measure as well. The point is taken, however. Many of the resources will be used in implementing this new system. Obviously, some will be used to design it but most will be used to implement it. I have a more detailed breakdown of the major release phases. Phase 1, which, as I mentioned, is scheduled for summer 2027, will introduce a small number of new ticketing machines for a combination of bus, tram and train services. That is to test and improve the functionality of the validators. It is right and proper that this is done before committing to a larger scale development.

We then get to the major release 2, assuming the test phase of the major release 1 works well. This involves installing new validators, initially across the Dublin city bus and Luas networks. This will take some time to complete, which is fair enough, and will involve replacing all of the validators on 1,300-plus buses and approximately 400 validators across 69 stops in the tram network. I understand there is a complexity involved , particularly when you are keeping Leap cards, free travel and all of the existing measures in place, such as the TFI Go app and others I mentioned. You are introducing a new system while you are operating the existing one.

Effectively, you then move into major release 3, which brings in Iarnród Éireann, or Irish Rail. That is a separate release owing to the specific complexity of installing and removing station gates. This will involve quite a lot of physical work on our rail network. In major release 4, the NTA will extend contactless bank card payments and barcode tickets to commuter and other bus services in the Dublin commuter zone. There are four phases, as I have stated, and four different releases. I will be meeting the NTA on this to see if there is any way we can shrink the timelines. However, it is welcome that it will start in summer 2027.

Naoise Ó Cearúil (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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As I said, this is extremely positive news. It is great to see such a development. Indra Sistemas, which is carrying out the work, has done similar work previously in an international context. Are there any binding milestones built into the contract? The reason I ask is because there are four phases, which is excellent, and we can see clear steps to achieve the overarching aim, but the priority should be to ensure that everything is delivered on time and within budget. Could we get an understanding of the contractual arrangements with Indra Sistemas?

It goes without saying that there are more vulnerable users, older people in particular, who would like to continue to use cash. It is important to ensure that option is still available for those people and for those who prefer to use cash.

I thank the Minister for his work on this. It has been a priority for him, and it is great to see progress here so far.

Joe Neville (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The reason I bring up contactless payments is because I commute from north Kildare. As someone who has used buses and trains over years, I have seen the improvements in the public transport system. At the same time, contactless payments are something we have seen in many other countries and cities. A lot of people would have used them in different places. I see no reason Dublin and Ireland should be any different. That is the reason I tabled my question, but I also wanted to speak to an interim measure we could use. We all use our Leap cards, we all update them on the app and we all update our payments, but, sooner rather than later, it should be a simple case of being able to tap and go. Obviously, it will be a costly and complex exercise but we will need simple steps in place in order that we can identify the costs along the way, how they are orientated and whether the projects are hitting their targets within the timeline. I am very happy that contactless payments are a key focus for the Minister. Hopefully, we look to them being delivered in the near future. The sooner we get an interim measure in place, the better it will be for everyone.

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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I thank both Deputies for their support. I will meet the NTA and Indra Sistemas, which is developing this system. I will try to secure more specific timelines from the company. It has been very helpful so far. Work is progressing very well. On the contractual arrangements, I do not have that detail right now. I commit to reverting to both Deputies with an update on this after I meet with the NTA and Indra Sistemas.

If we look at other innovations that have taken place, the Leap card was a big step forward from what we had before. The 90-minute fare is very useful. The interaction of the Leap card between all of our transport operators as well is useful. It is not too many years ago that this option was not available to people. Thankfully, because this Government is still committed to free travel for our seniors, there will be no requirement for cash payments for most of them. As the Deputies know, a commitment made by the previous Government and this one is that people with free travel will be able to bring a companion with them, and it is being rolled out right now. Later this year, probably in September, we will bring forward free travel for those between the ages of five and eight. The purpose of this is to recognise that costs are high too for families. We also want kids who are using buses, etc., to get used to doing so in order that it becomes a habit. We had record public transport passenger journeys last year. We want to try to exceed that this year. People are responding in that regard right across urban and rural locations. The Minister of State, Deputy Buttimer, answered questions about the advancement of Local Link. That has been really significant.

We have a great deal of work to do in this space, but real progress has been made. I will keep Deputies Neville and Ó Cearúil up to date. I will revert to them, post my meeting with the NTA, with specific timelines.