Dáil debates

Thursday, 12 June 2025

Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

 

5:15 am

Photo of Pearse DohertyPearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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We have all seen the news of the tragic plane crash in India of a flight on its way to London. All we can say at this time is that all of our thoughts are with all of those affected as we wait for news. It is shocking.

I also want to extend my condolences to Teachta Rose Conway-Walsh whose mother, Philomena Conway, passed away this morning. My thoughts are with Rose, all of her brothers and sisters and her whole family at this time. It is a difficult time for them. Ar dheis Dé go raibh a hanam.

Tá an Rialtas trína chéile ó thaobh tithíochta de agus é ag crúbaireacht thart ag iarraidh botúin mhóra sa phlean cíosa atá in ainm a bheith aige a cheartú. Tá neamhinniúlacht an Rialtais dochreidte. Is é an t-aon rud atá cinnte ná go rachaidh cíosanna atá ró-ard cheana féin in airde mar thoradh ar mholtaí an Rialtais. The spin surrounding the Government's chaotic proposals to reform the rental sector is unravelling day by day. The Government is at sixes and sevens, caught up in damage limitation and exercised because people can see right through what this plan is all about. It is about pushing up already extortionate rents even higher. As the Tánaiste knows, it will allow landlords to set the market rate for all new tenancies. The Tánaiste knows the Government is opening the gates to massive rent hikes for people who are already under serious pressure. The Government knows all of this.

After 1 March, renters will be hit with massive rent increases. This is especially true for young people who, by the very nature of their lives, whether for work or education, tend to move frequently. Young people, the generation which has already been shafted by your housing crisis, will be on the hook for even bigger rent hikes. We know students and their families are already desperate for affordable accommodation and will be absolutely fleeced when theses changes kick in. In fact, the Irish Hospital Consultants Association, IHCA, issued a damning statement yesterday, warning that the Government's plan could impact essential healthcare staff, required to move during their training, finding affordable accommodation.

The madness of this plan is matched only by the incompetence of the Government's approach. It is a complete and utter botch job. On Tuesday, the Government told the media, through the Department, that rent pressure zones would come into effect on 1 March. Indeed, the Minister confirmed that on "Prime Time". That meant that tens of thousands of renters will face the prospect of massive rent hikes as landlords move to benefit before the changes kick in. These are the people who have already seen double-digit rent increases and will now be thrown to the wolves. They cannot take any more.

On top of that, the Government's clumsy approach runs the risk of landlords holding off putting properties back up for rent until the changes come in in March. In its haste to pander to big landlords and wealthy property funds, the Government wrote this on the back of an envelope and there was no consideration of the impact on renters. They were an afterthought. That is why we are in such a big mess. It is now panic stations from the Government. This morning, the Government is scrambling around like headless chickens trying to find a way to rush forward the changes to rent laws before the Dáil breaks for the summer. The incompetence is off the charts. It seems that the only real thought given to the plan was how to screw over renters. Fair play; the Government did that with five golden stars.

When will we see the legislation? Who are we to believe? Is it the Minister, who was on "Prime Time" and said it will not happen till March? Is it now the headless chicken approach that we read about, whereby the Government will try to rush this through before the summer recess? Does the Tánaiste accept that existing landlords, even in existing rent pressure zones, letting to new tenants after 1 March will be able to jack up rents as high as they wish for new tenants before they move in, whether that is students, trainee nurses or anybody else? With the Tánaiste simply admit that delivering higher rents for landlords and investors is what this plan is really about, because, without a doubt, that will be the outcome of what the Government has announced?

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I join with Deputy Doherty in extending my sympathy to all of those caught up in the very tragic and horrific plane crash this morning. We think of all of them and their families in what is an evolving story with, no doubt, more information to come.

I too want to extend my sympathies to the Deputy's colleague, Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh, on the loss of her mother. Ar dheis Dé go raibh a hanam dílis. We think of her at this time.

I thank Deputy Doherty for raising the important issues of rent, renters and housing supply. The Government took a number of decisions this week to extend rental supports and protections. Let us not forget that, prior to that decision, rent pressure zones were due to expire at the end of this year. Rental protections associated with that were due to disappear. The Government worked intensively to come up with a package that is balanced and provides an extension of the rent pressure zones. Many parts of the Deputy's county - I think the entire county - including Carndonagh, Buncrana, Lifford, Letterkenny, Milford, Glenties and Donegal town are not protected by rent pressure zones as of today. Under our proposal and the emergency legislation that we will bring forward next week, which I heard the Deputy's party leader say she will support, we will extend rent pressure zones to people living in Donegal and other parts of the country, including Carlow, Cavan, parts of Cork, Clare, Kerry, Laois, Leitrim, Longford, Mayo, Monaghan and elsewhere. We are extending rent pressure zones nationwide and we are also keeping, for existing tenants, the 2% rate.

It is important to recognise that the Government proposals did not fall from the sky. They are grounded in the Housing Agency's review of this matter. For those looking in at home, the Housing Agency is the body charged coming up with ideas and proposals as to how we can accelerate housing supply. That is what it is asked to do. We have published the report of the Housing Agency, which is a detailed document. I am sure Deputy Doherty has had the time to go through it. It outlined a number of findings, including how there has been evidence of meaningful price moderation due to the RPZs. It outlined how institutional investment has reduced considerably since 2023. It has also made a number of recommendations, including based on international literature review. It has come up with concerns around how we would actually go about reference rent and the challenges that would pose. Similar challenges were outlined by the ESRI. This is the latest measure to help to support renters.

The Deputy is continuing to misinform people. People in rental accommodation watching in today need to know that we have kept the RPZs for them and extended a protection that was due to end. People in the Deputy's county and in other counties who do not have the protection of RPZs need to know that next week we will bring forward legislation to extend those protections.

We also have to look at what we can do in regard to supply. The sons and daughters and other people who want to rent need more accommodation to be built. Therefore, we have taken a balanced approach that supports renters while also providing security, clarity and certainty for those who wish to invest in our country. Of course, this is the latest in a series of announcements to be made, which includes extending planning permissions, expanding exempted developments, extending the role of the Land Development Agency, the new national planning framework to have more zoned land and, very shortly, significant capital investment in water, wastewater and energy so that we can deliver that enabling infrastructure. All these measures need to be looked at in the round to try to get a functioning housing market that can get us to the 300,000 homes we need over the next number of years.

The measures in the package we have brought for this week are balanced. I was at the Cabinet meeting this week. It was always the intention that we would bring forward an initial Bill to extend rent pressure zones and then further legislation which we can take the time to tease through in order to get this right in terms of what the new system looks like from March.

Photo of Pearse DohertyPearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Does the Tánaiste really believe that guff and spin? We have had 14 years of Fine Gael in government and rents have never been higher.

The Government is absolutely crucifying renters, and what it has done in its plan, when we cut through all of the spin, is that for every single new tenancy, and whether it is in Ardara or Drumcondra makes no difference, after 1 March the landlords will be able to set the price to whatever they want. Under existing law at present in a rent pressure zone this is not allowed. This is a charter for higher rents. This is charter for the vulture funds and for the property developers. It is benefiting landlords. They are the only people who will benefit. We know that tens of thousands of people move out of rental pressure zones.

The Tánaiste used to be the Minister for higher education. He mentioned Ardara, Letterkenny and Buncrana. What about the student who goes to rent a house in Drumcondra next year which is in a rent pressure zone? Will the landlord be able to jack up that price to whatever he wants before he lets the house? The answer is "yes" because what the Government has allowed is a free rein to every single landlord who lets a property out to a new tenant.

5:25 am

Photo of John McGuinnessJohn McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Thank you, Deputy Doherty.

Photo of Pearse DohertyPearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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That is the reality. The Tánaiste's answer to sky-high rents is to push them even further. That is shameful.

Photo of John McGuinnessJohn McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Please conclude, Deputy Doherty.

Photo of Pearse DohertyPearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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It is why so many people feel that Ireland is no longer their home.

Photo of John McGuinnessJohn McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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I call the Tánaiste.

Photo of Pearse DohertyPearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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It is why we have 100,000 people born in this country now living in Australia. The Government has made the situation worse.

Photo of Louise O'ReillyLouise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal West, Sinn Fein)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of John McGuinnessJohn McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Doherty is out of time.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The Government produced a series of measures this week that will extend for the very first time rent pressure zones to the constituency Deputy Doherty represents in Dáil Éireann. Do you not welcome that?

Photo of Pearse DohertyPearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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You gutted them.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Hang on a second. In Donegal today there is no rent pressure zone. In the proposals brought forward by the Minister, Deputy Browne, the rent pressure zones will be extended to Deputy Doherty's constituency and we will bring forward legislation next week to do this. Deputy Doherty did not reference the changes in relation to no-fault evictions. He did not recognise the fact that rent pressure zones were due to expire in December were we not to take these measures.

Photo of Pearse DohertyPearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Answer my question.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I will answer it and I will not be shouted down, thank you.

Photo of Pearse DohertyPearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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What about the student in Drumcondra?

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The only split and confusion that seems to be taking place in housing policy is in Sinn Féin. Mary Lou McDonald, Deputy Doherty's leader-----

Photo of Pearse DohertyPearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Answer the question.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Hang on a second.

Photo of John McGuinnessJohn McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Please.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I am answering the question, thank you.

Photo of John McGuinnessJohn McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Give him a chance to answer.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Mary Lou McDonald said she is in favour of rent pressure zones.

Photo of Pearse DohertyPearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Of course we are.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Eoin Ó Broin said he is not and that he is in favour of reference rent. Reference rent would see people's rents being pushed up.

Photo of Pearse DohertyPearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Answer the question.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Mary Lou McDonald said she does not want institutional investment in Ireland.

Photo of Pearse DohertyPearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Answer the question.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Eoin Ó Broin said he and Deputy Doherty meet them regularly. Sinn Féin is all over the place on housing. Its policy did not work so it does not have a housing policy now. All it has is noise and street activism. We will be taking specific measures to support students; do not worry we will, because we have their backs.

Photo of Pearse DohertyPearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Answer the question.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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We will expand the rent pressure zones and Sinn Féin needs to work out why it wants to bring in reference rents and push up rents and why it wanted to abolish the rent pressure zones. Shame.

Photo of Pearse DohertyPearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Answer the question about the landlord in Drumcondra.

Photo of John McGuinnessJohn McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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I call Deputy Sherlock. Resume your seat, Deputy Doherty.

Photo of Pearse DohertyPearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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The Tánaiste does want to do it because he does want to tell the public that his plan is to push rents sky high.

Photo of John McGuinnessJohn McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Sherlock has the floor.

Photo of Pearse DohertyPearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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That is the reality of it. The Tánaiste refuses to answer the question.

Photo of John McGuinnessJohn McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Sherlock, please.

Photo of Pearse DohertyPearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Sky high rents.

Photo of Noel GrealishNoel Grealish (Galway West, Independent)
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Respect democracy.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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You are in favour of reference rents.

Photo of Marie SherlockMarie Sherlock (Dublin Central, Labour)
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My thoughts are also with the loved ones of those on the flight from Ahmedabad to England. I have friends in Ahmedabad and we are very worried about them today. I also offer condolences on behalf of the Labour Party to Deputy Conway-Walsh on the loss of her mother.

One of the most difficult decisions a family will ever have to take is to put a loved one into a nursing home. This decision places enormous trust in strangers to treat that older person with the respect and dignity they deserve in the final years of their life. The brilliant investigative journalism by RTÉ last week showed very distressing scenes in Glasnevin and Portlaoise. In the week since then, all of the focus has been on the very serious failures in HIQA.

There are some good nursing homes out there, just as there are some good people in HIQA. What really worries me now is that the Government somehow believes that if HIQA tries harder, and if the adult safeguarding legislation is brought in to investigate individual complaints after those instances happen, then all will be fine. However, it will not. There are big questions for the Government now about the type of care we want for our older people in this country. Do we want a nursing home system where there is no minimum staffing level? These standards exist in the North and in other countries but they do not exist here. HIQA provides no guidance to nursing homes on safe staffing levels. Will providers whose chief motivation is profit, and there are many of them out there, ensure they have the right number of nurses and healthcare assistants on their premises? They will not.

The PWC report on nursing home staff in 2023 found the staff turnover of healthcare assistants in private nursing homes was as high as 54% in 2022. Even the childcare sector does not have staff turnover figures as high as that. Sitting in the Department of Health since 2022 is a report by a task force put together by the Department which recommends a living wage for all public and private sector nursing home staff. It recommends consideration of a pay agreement for the sector along with other important changes. What has happened since then? Nothing. Many of those workers are still on the minimum wage. Some providers are failing to pay the work permit minimums according to reports I am getting and there is huge frustration among the workers at being forced to work extremely long hours in the sector.

I have to ask the Tánaiste whether he is comfortable that the nursing home sector has become dominated by big business in Ireland. Is he comfortable with the fact that those to whom we are entrusting the care of our people are increasingly dominated by big business? Yesterday my party leader Deputy Bacik spoke of ten investment funds owning one third of all nursing home beds in Ireland. We know from the ESRI research that 20% of smaller private nursing homes closed between 2020 and 2022. We are seeing the growth of nursing homes driven by private equity-owned operators. The reality is that many are owned by what are called "opcos". REITs, which pay no tax, have separate entities to operate them known as "opcos". The reality is that smaller nursing homes are being crowded out. Does the Tánaiste want workers to be properly resourced, to be paid decently and to work in conditions in which they can provide the best possible care? Will he implement the recommendations of the 2022 report? Will he commit to the State playing a leading role in developing residential long-term care alongside smaller private nursing homes in this country?

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Sherlock for highlighting this really important issue. The short answer is that I believe the State is too reliant on the private market when it comes to nursing home provision. This is why we established a commission of care. We need to look at the entire model of how we care for older people in this country. I also think the fact we have one statutory scheme as to how we care for older people, which is nursing homes, and we do not yet have a statutory scheme for home care, is another issue. I will commit with the Minister, Deputy Carroll MacNeill, and the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell, to work constructively with Deputy Sherlock and her party on this issue. I will also ask that consideration be given to some of the issues Deputy Sherlock has referenced with regard to the 2022 report.

I want to make the point that we need to get the safeguarding legislation in place. This has been very apparent in what we have seen in recent days with RTÉ's very excellent work. The Minister will bring to Cabinet within the next month the adult safeguarding policy and seek Government permission to draft the safeguarding Bill. We will then work intensively and constructively with Members across the House to get the right piece of legislation passed in a timely manner. This is really important.

I have been reflecting on this. I fully accept that people work in very demanding environments but I also believe that what stems from what we have seen in our television screens in recent days are real questions of personal accountability. There are laws in our land today in relation to assault and how we conduct ourselves. I urge that a referral is made to An Garda Síochána with regard to the footage we saw. What I saw with my own two eyes were haunting scenes of people being, in my view, physically assaulted in their home. The Government has a responsibility to do things absolutely but so too do people who carry out those actions. There is a need for a Garda investigation into what we saw with regard to the individual actions of people in relation to that.

HIQA also has questions to answer and I welcome the fact that the Minister, Deputy Carroll MacNeill, is due to meet it, along with the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell. HIQA is good organisation in many ways. I have known HIQA for a long time and I think it has done good. There are good people in HIQA. There were serious shortcomings also in this regard and there can be no doubt about that. There are actions that should have been identified and acted upon at a much earlier stage.

Yes, we need to have a much broader discussion about the model of care we have for older people in this country. That work is under way. Of course pay and terms and conditions, just as Deputy Sherlock rightly says are factors in other sectors such as childcare, are factors in this also. We also need to get the legislative basis right. We need the safeguarding legislation. We also need to make sure that HIQA understands its role and has all the tools it needs. I also think we should look at statutory home care as an alternative legal basis for how we care for older people. These are the three areas where I would like to see action shortly.

Photo of Marie SherlockMarie Sherlock (Dublin Central, Labour)
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The Tánaiste was the Minister for Health when the report of the inquiry into private nursing homes was published in 2020, with regard to the failures that happened in nursing homes.

The Tánaiste was the then Minister for Health who saw those very clear recommendations, which have not been implemented. We have a plethora of reports within the Department of Health post-pandemic, mainly stemming from 2020 to 2022, which have not been implemented.

There are hundreds of thousands of people out there who are looking to their future. We know there will be half a million people over the age of 80 in 25 years' time. People in my constituency have three generations in a house and will have no choice but to go into a nursing home. We can have all the home care supports they want, but they will end up going into a nursing home when they get to a particular stage of their lives. They need to know that they will get the care they need. There is a pattern between Leas Cross, the failures in 2020 and what was revealed last week. In the Labour Party's view, it is the influence of big business with regard to how they have used nursing home care in this country to generate profits and not provide adequate care on the ground. The State needs to take a leading role in that regard.

5:35 am

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I agree with Deputy Sherlock's earlier point that there are many good nursing homes in this country. There are many good public nursing homes and many good private nursing homes, big and small, throughout the country. I do not have an ideological view in that regard. I just want older people to have a choice in their care, I want their families to be supported in making those decisions and I want to know, whether it is a public or private nursing home, that everyone is safe and is being treated with dignity. I also believe we should be more ambitious about care in the community and that far too many people in Ireland go into a nursing home far too early. I can think of good examples of where we have housing alternatives in place and home care opportunities, but they are far too rare. That is why the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell, became the first Minister of State with responsibility for older people ever, based between the Department of Health and the Department of housing, because we must get this model right.

There are also genuine, serious issues of personal accountability. There is no law, ideology or model of care that can excuse away, either in its existence or its absence, the conduct of people who decided to physically manhandle elderly people with dementia. I want them held accountable and the Garda to look at the matter.

Photo of Ruth CoppingerRuth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity)
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How important does the Tánaiste think the issue of gender-based violence is? The United Nations and the WHO say it is the greatest threat to the health of women and girls in the world. There has been a record number of calls to Women's Aid and a rise in calls to gardaí regarding gender-based violence. I am struggling to find one measure the Government has introduced in its six months.

Today, however, the Government had a chance to allow a Bill to progress that would actually deal with something very concrete, that survivors and therapists are very much behind and that the Tánaiste supported only a year ago, namely, the outlawing of counselling notes being accessed by defence teams in trials for gender-based violence. The Government has decided to delay my Bill, which will be discussed in the House later today, by a year. It is a very cynical measure and is something that will be noted by so many people. This is an unbelievably damaging and misogynistic practice for survivors. I will give the Tánaiste an example of what Sarah Grace said:

... in many ways I found my trial more traumatic than the attack itself. Can you imagine saying that? ... I would take the attack again before having to step foot back in that courtroom. The most heartbreaking obstacle of all was the seizure of my counselling [notes].

Is the Tánaiste listening to what survivors are saying about our legal system - that they would actually go through the attack again, rather than go through the legal system? One of the most egregious things mentioned by survivors is the fact that their therapy notes could be read by the perpetrator of the heinous crime against them. I will let that rest with the Tánaiste.

I have a Bill to outlaw it. I do not know what the Tánaiste's excuse is. We have been hearing from the Minister that it could be unconstitutional. However, evictions could not be banned until this week. Suddenly, that is not unconstitutional. Therapists will gather outside Leinster House later in support of my Bill. A total of 60 professionals wrote to the Ministers for Health and justice and the Minister of State with responsibility for mental health. This is a health issue, by the way, not just a mental health issue. Survivors of gendered violence are much more likely to have self-harmed, poor physical health, suicidal ideation and eating disorders. Therapy is the one avenue that could possibly help them work through those issues.

I spoke to one of the therapists who signed the letter on the phone yesterday, who told me a 15-year-old has dropped out of CAMHS because the teenager had heard in the media that therapy notes could be accessed in court. A survivor of child abuse is dropping out of therapy because of this. How long must we wait? Why would it take the Government a year to come up with a Bill in the first place? Why would the Government put a stop of a year on my Bill? People have waited. The then Minister, Deputy McEntee, said she would do it in 2023. The Tánaiste said it in the Dáil on 2 July 2024, as did the Taoiseach, Deputy Martin, but here we are again. We have a Bill to be debated in the Dáil but the Government will delay it.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Coppinger. First, I do not think that is a fair portrayal of the Government's record, Fine Gael's record or the Government's position regarding this issue. The Minister, Deputy McEntee, is sitting beside me and I challenge the Deputy to name any Minister who has done more-----

Photo of Jennifer Carroll MacNeillJennifer Carroll MacNeill (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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-----regarding domestic, sexual and gender-based violence than she has. She worked on a cross-party basis at every opportunity to make progress. The Deputy does not need to take my word for that; victims' groups and survivors' groups acknowledge that. I saw it with my own two eyes as well. Not every issue has to be partisan, or Government-----

Photo of Ruth CoppingerRuth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity)
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Not every issue has to be defensive either.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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This is a very sensitive issue. I am just making the point that every time Deputy Coppinger stands up it does not have to be a case of the Government being a terrible bunch of people and that she is great. Sometimes, perhaps there are just some issues that are so important that we should actually work together to try to make progress on them.

The reason we are delaying the Deputy's Bill, to use her phrase, is not out of disrespect for her Bill; it is actually out of respect for what she is trying to do and in recognition of the fact that we have our own Bill. The Minister, Deputy O'Callaghan, received Government approval to bring forward legislation in this area last month - in advance of the Deputy's Bill being tabled for discussion in this House - building on the Minister, Deputy McEntee's work to make sure that we rectify the exact issue she rightly highlighted.

I too have met victims. I am horrified; how can anyone not shudder when they hear what the Deputy said about the survivor of child abuse and the impact it has had on the survivor in accessing CAMHS. The Deputy is not wrong on this; this is a very serious issue that has a real chilling effect on victims and how our criminal justice system and courts system interact with them. It is our intention to legislate, or it is not just our intention in that the Minister, Deputy O'Callaghan, already has Government approval for the general scheme of the criminal law and civil law (miscellaneous provisions) Bill 2025. That is the vehicle through which we intend to address this issue.

The Government will not vote down the Deputy's Bill because it is an honest effort to make progress on a very important issue. Therefore, we are saying that the Deputy's Bill will be read today and the Minister's Bill will be brought forward. Let us try to get progress on this on a cross-party basis and work together in this regard.

For the record of the House, there was an effort in 2017 to reform the law in this area and put in place a process through which the courts would assess the relevance of counselling record. I am not saying it is perfect; it is far from it, but my understanding is that this legislation has not operated in any manner or means as it was intended to. Therefore, we have listened very carefully to the views of victims and survivors. They have made clear that they felt compelled to agree to waive the disclosure hearing in order to not put a successful prosecution at risk or to risk delaying their trial. That is an appalling vista and was never the intention of the 2017 provision. Records are routinely being released. That was not the intention of the 2017 provision.

We are fully aware of the stress and revictimisation that the disclosure of personal records can have on survivors of sexual violence, including counselling records. We are not waiting for a year to do anything. The Minister has approval to draft this legislation. The Deputy will bring forward her legislation today and we will work constructively to pass a good, robust Bill as quickly as possible.

Photo of Ruth CoppingerRuth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity)
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There is an irony in the Tánaiste saying we should all work together when the Government is stopping my Bill. The Government could have allowed the Bill to progress. We could debate it and it could amend it on Committee Stage. The problem with the Bill the Minister seems to be talking about is that it will not exclude the potential for counselling notes to be admitted. That is the problem. The actual potential of having one's therapy notes accessed is what creates the trauma and is what is putting people off taking cases. The Government will not exclude that, which is the problem. The right to a fair trial is very important, but so is the right to actually pursue a case for a crime committed against a person. There is no evidential value in counselling notes.

I blame Éamon de Valera for many things, but I doubt counselling notes were at the top of his agenda when he inserted the Article dealing with fair trials in the Constitution. A lot was said about zero tolerance, but every single misogynistic practice I highlighted in this House in 2018 is still going on in the courts. Clothing, underwear, contraception and alcohol and drug intake can all still be used against a survivor in court. All the victim-blaming is still there. None of that has been dealt with by successive Governments since the "I Believe Her" marches, the Cork rape trial or the Belfast rape trial.

That is the problem.

5:45 am

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Let me be clear: domestic, sexual and gender-based violence is still an epidemic globally, including in Ireland. We are not immune to it. That is not to say that the work that has been undertaken has not brought about real assistance. I refer to the expansion of refuge places, the establishment of Cuan, record funding for groups working with people in this area and training now being in place, which is a key part of the zero-tolerance strategy. That includes training for people in the public service and for our courts system. Our courts system, however, is not where it needs to be. I think members of the Judiciary have recognised that too, and that is why we are changing the law, so on this issue I plead with the Deputy not to start telling people we are blocking her Bill and doing nothing for a year. That is called misinformation. It is called fake news. We are not blocking her Bill. We are passing a timed amendment that means her Bill will move forward in 12 months if we have not got our act together, and we will get our act together. That is why the Minister, Deputy O'Callaghan, months before Deputy Coppinger's Bill got permission to draft his own Bill. Victims and survivors do not care whose Bill it is; they care about action. This Government will take action to protect victims and to make sure we do it in a way that is compatible with our Constitution but protects victims and survivors in a way they are not today. That is what we will do, and we will get it right.

Photo of Michael CollinsMichael Collins (Cork South-West, Independent Ireland Party)
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This country is crying out for accountability from regulatory bodies as we stumble from one scandal to another. Last week, I attended a public meeting in Oranmore, Galway, with Deputy Michael Fitzmaurice and Councillor Declan Kelly and met with parents whose children had been scammed by a local orthodontist and neglected by the Dental Council of Ireland. These parents paid large sums upfront in 2022 for their children's dental treatment only to find out they were being deceived. Some children were left with misaligned jaws, others with braces but no treatment plan, and some had to remove their braces themselves or with the help of others over the phone. One girl had a wire sticking into her mouth which her boyfriend eventually cut with clippers. These parents have faced significant challenges from the previous Government, the Dental Council and the former Minister for Health, with no solutions or support available. The Dental Council of Ireland is supposed to investigate the fitness of registered dentists to practise based on allegations of professional misconduct or unfitness due to physical or mental disability. According to the parents of these children, however, the Dental Council has done absolutely nothing to help them. These parents and children have been left over €2 million out of pocket, and children have been left with denture neglect at a very delicate age in their lives.

As regards another area of non-accountability, I recently raised twice in the Dáil with the Taoiseach during Leaders' Questions the scam that is going on with certain financial advisers. On foot of that, I attended a meeting with the Central Bank and some of the people affected who have had their lives destroyed because of these financial advisers. I was informed at that meeting with the Central Bank that yes, the Central Bank regulates financial advisers but these financial advisers can sell unregulated products. The website of the Central Bank states that, as the regulator of financial service providers and markets in Ireland, the bank has to ensure that the best interests of consumers are protected. Where is the protection for those whom I know of who have lost over €200 million by the Central Bank?

The third area of non-compliance relates to the recent "RTÉ Investigates" documentary titled "Inside Ireland's Nursing Homes", which has uncovered serious concerns about the standards of care in several residential facilities run by Emeis Ireland, the country's largest provider of private nursing homes. The documentary, which aired on 4 June 2025, revealed issues such as staff shortages, unsafe care practices and undignified treatment of residents. The investigation involved undercover researchers who documented multiple instances of neglect and poor care, including residents being left unsupervised, improper manual handling and inadequate responses to residents' needs. Nursing homes in Ireland are regulated primarily by the Health Information and Quality Authority, HIQA. HIQA is responsible for inspecting and registering residential care services for older people, including both public and private nursing homes. It ensures that these facilities meet the required standards of care and safety. Where was HIQA? We are forever in the Dáil seeking facts after the events, with well-paid regulatory bodies showing absolutely no accountability. How does the Tánaiste suggest we hold these bodies accountable going forward?

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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There was quite a lot in that, so let me endeavour to get through it.

To start where the Deputy finished as regards the issue of accountability and the safety and well-being of people in our nursing homes, I reiterate that it is the intention of the Minister for Health, Deputy Carroll MacNeill, along with the Minister of State, Kieran O'Donnell, to bring forward adult safeguarding policy proposals within the next month or so and to seek permission from the Government to draft the general scheme of safeguarding legislation. This is badly needed, it will make a big difference and I know it is something on which many experts and others who contributed to the RTÉ programme commented, including the acute need for it. It is a priority for the Government and we will make progress on that. The Minister will also meet with HIQA herself in the next week and there will be an opportunity, I am sure, for a full and frank exchange of views on this. The establishment of HIQA was an important step. There are good people at work in HIQA, and HIQA does a good job, but no organisation is beyond reproach or beyond questioning as to what happened in specific cases. There are legitimate questions that the Government will want to ask and explore with HIQA.

As regards the issue of dental legislation and the likes, I will need to be careful in one matter because I believe the case referred to in the article is perhaps before the courts and subject to in camera proceedings. That does not prohibit me from answering the broader point, which relates to the practice of dentistry and the reforms on which the Minister for Health intends to lead. My understanding is that dentistry is currently underpinned by a range of legislation, the Dentists Act 1985 being just one piece. The Minister, Deputy Carroll MacNeill, is committed to reviewing and updating that Act, and the continued protection of the public and high oral healthcare standards will be a priority in that regard. In the meantime, I am very pleased to say that the Minister signed a commencement order relating to certain provisions of the Regulated Professions (Health and Social Care) (Amendment) Act on 30 April 2025. I think they came into effect on 6 May of this year. That requires dentists to make statutory declarations as regards any disciplinary proceedings or any judicial proceedings in the State or in another jurisdiction which may directly or indirectly result in the dentist being prohibited or restricted from providing one or more kind of health or social care. It has also broadened the grounds for inquiry to include matters which might be declared by a dentist or where a dentist fails to comply with the declarations requirement. This important provision is intended to ensure that the Dental Council becomes aware much earlier. Reform of the Dentists Act is planned for and those new regulations are in place.

Finally, on the issue of regulation of financial advisers, I am pleased that the Central Bank of Ireland met with the Deputy and his constituents, as he says, I think in May of this year to discuss issues he has raised in this House and to advise on the roll-out. I think he and his constituents found that meeting to be helpful. We are very happy to engage with him constructively on any lacunae or areas where he believes there is a need for improvement from a regulatory or legislative perspective.

Photo of Michael CollinsMichael Collins (Cork South-West, Independent Ireland Party)
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I thank the Tánaiste for his reply. He speaks about dental regulation, the Dentists Act and developments in 2024 or 2025. These people were hit hard in 2022. They have lost €2 million. How can any of them have confidence when we see the regulatory bodies fail the very people they are paid to protect? What does the Tánaiste say to the parents and children in their hundreds who are scammed out of their hard-earned money in Oranmore, Galway, to the tune of over €2 million, leaving these children in a shocking condition to the point, as I said earlier, of a young woman's boyfriend cutting the wire out of her mouth himself with some type of clippers? Since 2022, in spite of meetings with Ministers and others, the Dental Council has washed its hands and has walked away without a care in the world for the damage, both mental and physical, done to these children. Will the Tánaiste step in here and meet with the Dental Council to hold it accountable, hold it to do what it is supposed to do for these people so something like this can never happen again and compensate these innocent people who have been scammed out of their hard-earned money?

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I am very conscious of not wanting to say anything that cuts across any legal process or court process. I know the Deputy is as well. I will therefore refrain from going any further on that issue other than to reiterate that the Minister, Deputy Carroll MacNeill, who is here with us, is committed, as is the programme for Government, to reviewing the dental legislation more broadly for the reasons I have outlined. A number of regulations have been commenced recently, since the Minister took office, that became effective in May and that I think are positive developments in modernising the regulatory structures that underpin the work of our dentists.

On the issue of the Central Bank and financial advisers - I ran out of time a little the last time - we are eager to continue to engage on this. When it comes to the protection of retail investors, the Department of Finance and the Central Bank work in tandem. The Central Bank regulates firms that operate in Ireland, including those that provide investment advice and sell investment products. I would also flag the role of the Financial Services and Pensions Ombudsman. If, however, there are issues here, because we should always strive to do better, we are very happy to engage further on this.