Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)

This is a very sensitive issue. I am just making the point that every time Deputy Coppinger stands up it does not have to be a case of the Government being a terrible bunch of people and that she is great. Sometimes, perhaps there are just some issues that are so important that we should actually work together to try to make progress on them.

The reason we are delaying the Deputy's Bill, to use her phrase, is not out of disrespect for her Bill; it is actually out of respect for what she is trying to do and in recognition of the fact that we have our own Bill. The Minister, Deputy O'Callaghan, received Government approval to bring forward legislation in this area last month - in advance of the Deputy's Bill being tabled for discussion in this House - building on the Minister, Deputy McEntee's work to make sure that we rectify the exact issue she rightly highlighted.

I too have met victims. I am horrified; how can anyone not shudder when they hear what the Deputy said about the survivor of child abuse and the impact it has had on the survivor in accessing CAMHS. The Deputy is not wrong on this; this is a very serious issue that has a real chilling effect on victims and how our criminal justice system and courts system interact with them. It is our intention to legislate, or it is not just our intention in that the Minister, Deputy O'Callaghan, already has Government approval for the general scheme of the criminal law and civil law (miscellaneous provisions) Bill 2025. That is the vehicle through which we intend to address this issue.

The Government will not vote down the Deputy's Bill because it is an honest effort to make progress on a very important issue. Therefore, we are saying that the Deputy's Bill will be read today and the Minister's Bill will be brought forward. Let us try to get progress on this on a cross-party basis and work together in this regard.

For the record of the House, there was an effort in 2017 to reform the law in this area and put in place a process through which the courts would assess the relevance of counselling record. I am not saying it is perfect; it is far from it, but my understanding is that this legislation has not operated in any manner or means as it was intended to. Therefore, we have listened very carefully to the views of victims and survivors. They have made clear that they felt compelled to agree to waive the disclosure hearing in order to not put a successful prosecution at risk or to risk delaying their trial. That is an appalling vista and was never the intention of the 2017 provision. Records are routinely being released. That was not the intention of the 2017 provision.

We are fully aware of the stress and revictimisation that the disclosure of personal records can have on survivors of sexual violence, including counselling records. We are not waiting for a year to do anything. The Minister has approval to draft this legislation. The Deputy will bring forward her legislation today and we will work constructively to pass a good, robust Bill as quickly as possible.

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