Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Now we take Leaders' Questions under Standing Order 38.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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First, a warm word of welcome to the students from Inver College, Carrickmacross, County Monaghan. It is the alma mater of Deputy Matt Carthy, so they have a lot to answer for.

The Government is all over the place as to what will happen with the €430,000 salary of NAMA CEO Brendan McDonagh when the agency is wound up at the end of this year. One arm of the Government does not know what the other is doing, and there has been contradiction after contradiction. When the Government’s plan was to appoint Mr. McDonagh as its new housing tsar, the Taoiseach told the Dáil repeatedly that he would retain his €430,000 salary in the role. The Taoiseach was adamant that this would be the case and that it would not cost the taxpayer any additional money because Mr. McDonagh would be seconded and the salary was already being paid from the public purse. However, the Minister for Finance, Deputy Paschal Donohoe, then directly contradicted the Taoiseach. He told us Mr. McDonagh would not retain the eye-watering salary on returning to his role within the NTMA. He said that only a specific number of NAMA executives will retain their terms when the transfer of personnel takes place. Then we had the Minister for public expenditure, Deputy Jack Chambers, in the middle of this fiasco. This is where it gets very Fianna Fáily. As Minister for Finance, he drafted the legislation making it clear that all NAMA executives would go to the resolution unit in the National Treasury Management Agency and that all of them would therefore retain their pay and conditions. This must include Mr. McDonagh and his €430,000 pay packet. The Minister will recall that the officials who appeared before the Oireachtas finance committee in September were very clear that Mr. McDonagh would be retaining his salary. Therefore, the labyrinth of contradiction prompts people to ask what the hell is going on here. People catch the stink of something rotten.

Of course, there has not been a peep from the Government on the fact that Mr. McDonagh, its once-preferred candidate for housing tsar, is renting out a house in Dublin for €10,000 a week in the middle of a housing crisis.

The Government is desperately trying to save face and scrambling for cover because at the heart of this controversy is the instinct of Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael to keep political insiders onside, to preserve the way things work and to feather the nests of the golden circle. The Government’s big problem is that nobody trusts Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael to tell the truth. It was caught fibbing about housing delivery figures during the election. The Minister was in the middle of that. It was caught out with the false election promise to provide an extra €1 billion on water infrastructure and it has spent the past few months moving heaven and earth to protect its grubby deal with Deputy Michael Lowry. When it does business by misleading it cannot really blame people for not believing a single word that comes from the Government’s mouth.

Tá an Rialtas seo trína chéile maidir leis an tuarastal €430,000 do cheannasaí NAMA. Tagann gach ráiteas nua salach ar an ráiteas roimhe, agus tá an Rialtas ag iarraidh dul i bhfolach.

The Minister drafted the legislation that will allow Mr. McDonagh to keep his jaw-dropping salary. He has it down, in fact, as priority legislation. I will ask straight questions and hopefully the Minister will give straight answers. Who is telling the truth about Mr. McDonagh’s €430,000 salary? Is it the Taoiseach or is it the Minister for Finance? Can we have some honesty from the Government?

Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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I also welcome all the students from Inver College. Hopefully they will be inspired by politics and what they see today. Robust exchanges are always important in the political system.

I appreciate what the Deputy has raised. I will provide clarity for her. The legislation she referenced was the general scheme of the conclusion of the IBRC special liquidation and dissolution of NAMA Bill 2024, which was published in July last year. The Deputy referenced pre-legislative scrutiny that was ongoing at the joint committee between its members and officials from the Department of Finance. It contained standard statutory provisions modelled on other similar legislation to ensure that when operations of one state entity are transferred to another, the employment rights of staff are preserved. This was included in the general scheme in case it was required, which is specified in this to apply to the transfer of a small number of staff from NAMA to a resolution unit in the NTMA to be established to manage any residual activity following the dissolution of NAMA. No decision has been made, as the Minister for Finance said yesterday, about who these individuals might be and discussions are ongoing with the NTMA. It is clear that the resolution unit will be much smaller in scale than NAMA was and, as such, it is not expected that the unit will require the transfer of the CEO role as it is currently constituted. Where staff who are not going to be in the resolution unit and who are not already made redundant by NAMA prior to the dissolution date are concerned, it is a matter for the NTMA as their particular employer. The general scheme sets out clearly that this provision is not complete, that discussions are "ongoing with the NTMA and it may be the case that no provision is needed in this Bill to facilitate staff transfers". The Government has not yet published the final legislation on this matter.

On the Deputy’s question on the housing activation office, it will be a really important office when it comes to addressing the barriers and constraints that exist at local level, for example. Yes, the nominated individual to whom she referred is not proceeding with that role. As such, the Minister for housing, Deputy Browne will come back to the Government about who it might be and what the appropriate expertise will involve in the context of the establishment of that office. It will be an important office to address some of the constraints and barriers at local level. We should all take that cross-party approach to addressing the constraints that impede the supply of housing at a local level. This is a proactive response from the Minister for housing to address the barriers and difficulties in some local authorities to try to synchronise and co-ordinate the delivery of local infrastructure. The strategic housing office will work and co-ordinate with the infrastructure division that I have established in my own Department so that we really accelerate and step up the ability to deliver infrastructure and housing supply across our economy.

The purpose of having an individual leading that is that we have someone with the appropriate level of expertise and leadership to really drive change and accelerate delivery in this area. The appointment of a head of office with an in-depth understanding will be critical to having the impact the office needs to have. In the interim, staff will be deployed from the Department of housing to step up the office. It will also involve seconding individuals from across the commercial State sector to accelerate delivery in the provision of infrastructure.

I have clarified the matter relating to the legislation. It was a general scheme. The legislation has yet to be published on that matter, and it may not require that provision as the NTMA works through the relative conditions with respect to people that exist in NAMA. We are stepping up the housing activation office and it will make a difference in the provision of housing supply, and we should all support that.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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In the spirit of being helpful to the Minister, what needs to step up is the performance of the Minister for housing and indeed the collective performance of Government. All of that is just verbiage that the Minister has offered up on that unit. The Minister for housing drives housing delivery. That is their job description, that is why they are on a big salary. The legislation is very clear that all NAMA employees and executives transferring back to the NTMA will work in the resolution unit. Therefore, all of them will hold their terms and conditions. That is what it states. Either the Government is going to remove that provision from the legislation, and please tell me if that is the case, or we can only presume that Mr. McDonagh will return to the NTMA and hold his salary of €430,000. The Minister has been caught out here and he is continuing to duck and dive today. I want clarity from him. He will return to the NTMA. What salary will he be on? Will it, in fact, remain at €430,000? It is an obscene salary in anybody's mind.

Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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I completely reject what the Deputy said. She asked me a question relating to the legislation and I gave her an answer that reflects the factual position in a general scheme that was presented. The draft general scheme states very clearly that discussions are ongoing with the NTMA and it may be the case that no provision is needed in this Bill to facilitate staff transfers. The Minister for Finance, Deputy Donohoe, yesterday set out very clearly that the resolution unit would not require a CEO. It is going to be a much smaller unit, managing the remaining assets that exist within the NTMA and in that particular unit. That is why the NTMA, as an employer, for staff who are not already made redundant after the dissolution, will engage with the respective staff relating to their future contractual position within the agency. That is a contractual matter, as the Deputy will respect, between the employer and the respective employee. I do not think it appropriate that the Deputy is raising a particular contractual matter of a particular employee----

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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I do not think it is appropriate that this guy is being paid €430,000.

Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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----in the context of an ongoing engagement in respect of an employee in the NTMA. That particular provision may not be required as they conclude resolution of NAMA.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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So maybe or maybe not.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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The public pays their salary.

Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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The so-called housing tsar debacle has left more questions than answers, and not just about salary either. The Minister for housing has been very quiet in responding to these questions. We need to hear from him in the Dáil. He must come to us to explain how he proposes his new housing activation office will work. He cannot leave explanations to the Minister of State with responsibility for nature and biodiversity, as he did on the radio last Friday. Over recent weeks, we have heard plenty of noise from Government about unblocking blockages, tackling shortfalls, maverick approaches and boots on the ground, but no detail. Will there be legislative underpinning for this new office? Will it do more than check the Minister's homework? Crucially, how much will it cost? Whatever the salary, what everyone is struggling to understand is what will the housing tsar do that the housing Minster cannot do himself.

The Minister is currently failing on housing. Let us take some examples. On infrastructure, we learned yesterday about the lack of funding for Uisce Éireann at a time when we are hearing so much from developers and house builders about delays due to infrastructure. We heard yesterday that the extra €1 billion for Uisce Éireann in the budget did not actually represent additional funding. It is what my colleague, Deputy Nash, has called a three-card trick before the election, a bit like the promise of 40,000 homes last year.

Lack of infrastructure is slowing delivery. We are hearing it in Mallow, where 469 houses are being delayed due to infrastructure problems. We are hearing it in Dublin, too. We are hearing other issues as well. Take Pearse House, a large flat complex just a few hundred metres from here, which is in the process of being regenerated. In recent weeks, we have heard from the Department of housing that there has been a hold on regeneration plans, partly because that building is listed. Residents are devastated. They are facing appalling conditions, with sewage overflowing, unsafe stairwells and damp houses. It is not just Pearse House, either. Regeneration is badly needed at Oliver Bond flats, Mercer House and in developments throughout the country.

It is ironic that Pearse House is listed because it is one of Herbert Simms’ developments, built in the 1930s. Simms built 17,000 homes across our capital city between 1932 and 1948. This was a programme of building at scale precipitated by a famous report commissioned in response to worsening conditions in the tenements. It concluded that the State had to deliver homes at scale because the private sector was incapable of doing so. The words of that report are reminiscent of the words in the Housing Commission’s report which seeks a radical reset of housing policy and for the State to play an integral role in providing counter-cyclical support to ensure home building can proceed at scale. What we are not hearing from the Government is any recognition of the need for that urgent and rapid reset in housing. People are being left without a home. They do not want a tsar; they want a home. What will the Minister for housing do to reassure us that he is going to deliver homes?

Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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Everyone across this House acknowledges that the State has to play a central role in the future of infrastructure delivery and the provision of housing in our economy. That has been acknowledged in the context of what we are going to do and how we will strategically invest more than €20 billion from the Apple escrow fund and the Infrastructure, Climate and Nature Fund to prioritise housing, energy, water and transport infrastructure. They are all critical growth-enabling areas in which we need to invest to protect and progress Ireland’s future.

Deputy Bacik is critical of the housing activation office and what the Minister, Deputy Browne, has sought to do. In the interim, staff are being deployed from the Department of housing into that office, as well as respective experts from utilities being seconded, to try to address some of the blockages that exist at a local level. I am also stepping up an infrastructure division in the Department of public expenditure to respond to the absolute need to accelerate infrastructure delivery across our economy. In parallel with that, we are developing a programme of reform to try to address and narrow a lot of the timelines, which are too long and elongated in delivering housing and infrastructure across our State. It is all about trying to synchronise delivery between water, energy, utility providers and the respective delivery agents that need to deliver more across our economy.

When it comes to the Deputy’s question with respect to Irish Water, as I set out on budget day, a €1 billion equity investment was provided for in budget 2025 following the sale of the bank shares. This was in addition to the voted Exchequer allocation provided as part of the funding mix. The Deputy referenced the correspondence from the chair of Irish Water, who is an excellent chair and also the chair of Dublin Port. He reflected the need for clarity and expressed concerns that were responded to at the time by the Minister for housing. In further correspondence from the chair, he acknowledged the appreciation of the Uisce Éireann executive and board for the commitment of the Department, the Minister at the time and the Government. He indicated the support and responsiveness of the Department had been genuinely helpful and he appreciated the time and attention given to clarifying the funding available for Uisce Éireann for 2025 and the use allocation of the additional €1 billion capital investment. A few days after the correspondence the Deputy referenced, therefore, the Minister clarified the matter. That was acknowledged by the chair of Irish Water at the time. I acknowledge the need, however, particularly in the context of water infrastructure, for additionality to accelerate the delivery of additional wastewater treatment and to provide for additional connections for new homes. That is why we have been clear that water investment will be central to the allocation that will be received in the national development plan in July and why it is a strategic area of priority for the Government. Irish Water has the multi-annual funding to accelerate delivery where there is a significant deficit across the State.

Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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It is very difficult to take seriously the Government's commitments on infrastructure or on housing delivery. On infrastructure, what is clear from the correspondence and the revelations about Uisce Éireann is that it simply has not been provided with the necessary additional resourcing to enable it to step up to provide the vital connections that are necessary to ensure building at scale. On the delivery of homes, there is that 40,000 figure we now know is 10,000 off and across the country we are seeing communities who are left bereft, awaiting housing developments that are long promised. In Poolbeg, at the Irish Glass Bottle site, we were promised thousands of new homes. I met last week with the local housing action group there, which is despairing of hearing a firm agreement on the numbers of social and affordable homes to be provided on that crucial site. We are simply not seeing the delivery of homes or infrastructure and we still have not heard from the Minister as to what exactly the housing activation office is going to bring that will be additional and that will provide for the necessary capacity to build at the scale that Herbert Simms built at all those decades ago.

Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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The housing activation office will be there to better coordinate delivery in terms of the provision and supply of homes at a local level. The Minister will set out further details around that-----

Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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When?

Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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He is working through the details. He is stepping up the office itself and will provide leadership when it comes to the actual person who may be appointed in time around that particular office. It is to co-ordinate delivery in the provision of an increased supply of homes across our economy. We acknowledge that there is an infrastructure deficit and that there is a need for additionality across water, energy, transport and housing. That is why we are taking a strategic approach, having an early review of the national development plan and prioritising key areas in those four sectors I have referenced, all with the central focus of increasing the supply of homes across our economy. We have historic increases in the provision of direct support for social and affordable housing. A significant proportion of the homes delivered last year were through the direct contribution of the State. The Deputy will see, through the national development plan, a serious uplift in the context of those four areas that will support infrastructure delivery to increase the supply of homes.

Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity)
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Would the Minister agree that his Government's record on housing over the first 100 days has been an unmitigated disaster? A total of 15,376 people are in emergency accommodation, housing completions are down by 6.7% and social and affordable targets are down by 18%. These are figures that the Government knew about before the election but has not yet explained why it stayed quiet about them. To top it all off, search parties have to be sent out for the housing Minister because nobody has a clue who he is. Before he even took up his post he announced that he needed a housing tsar. What this is bringing back is the golden circle hangover and headaches of Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael from past eras. Brendan McDonagh, the favoured candidate, was to be hired on a salary of €430,000. He is to go back to his other State job on the same salary unless the Government takes action.

It was revealed in The Ditch that Mr. McDonagh had bought a house in Cabra under the name of Brendan McDonagh in September 2014 but had used two aliases on the same property. If someone has a love of the Irish language, he or she normally uses aliases and names in other forums and not just in relation to property. PB McDonncha registered the property and Pádraig McDonncha sought five planning permissions on the property. I am just wondering what due diligence the Government did about the candidate. Why would somebody use two different aliases? Does the Minister know? How would a house in Cabra command a rental of €10,226 per week? It is not the Riviera. There are so many questions that need to be investigated. Is the Minister aware of any other properties Brendan McDonagh may have registered in another name? Is this a case of somebody in the property sector who is gaming the system because he is in the know? Will the Government investigate this now that Mr. McDonagh is moving back to another State job?

Why do we need a so-called housing tsar on a salary that is ten times the average wage of a teacher or nurse who cannot afford a house? It is crystal clear what needs to be done. There are State lands and there is money in the State coffers. In the Minister's constituency, Fingal County Council has a huge land bank at Scribblestown, Elmgreen, Dunsink of 247 acres.

It has asked the Government for €200 million. All the Minister for public expenditure needs to do is write a cheque. He does not need a housing tsar to do that for him. According to a council meeting last October, at which councillors from the Minister's party were present, that site could provide 7,000 houses. It is a strategic land bank for the county of Dublin and for the Minister's constituency of Dublin West, where so many are suffering. Will he fund that land bank? Do we need a tsar for that?

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Before the Minister responds, I reiterate that I understand there are issues, but it is a long-standing ruling of the Chair that Members should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside of the House or an official, either by name or in such a way as to make him identifiable, as he is defenceless against accusations made under privilege in the House. I am letting the Deputy know that. We now move to the Minister, Deputy Chambers.

Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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Based on what you say, a Cheann Comhairle, I am not going to respond to the specific query Deputy Coppinger raises relating to the article in The Ditch. It is a matter for the individual to respond. I do not have the factual position on that case and I do not think it would be appropriate to make any assertions or allegations connected to it. We must respect the ruling of the House. The named individual the Deputy references is not here to defend himself.

The new housing activation office the Deputy continues to criticise is being established by the Minister, Deputy Browne, to ensure we bring that radical step to the delivery of homes across our economy. Deputy Coppinger references the example of Fingal County Council, which can be a central local authority for the increased provision of social and affordable homes, but to deliver at scale, we need to ensure co-ordination across the respective utilities - in water, the ESB, and the local authorities themselves - to have the enabling infrastructure to deliver homes at scale. What the Minister, Deputy Browne, is seeking to do is to have a structure within the Department of housing, which brings co-ordination to strategic sites that can deliver homes at scale. That is what he is doing in the context of the strategic housing activation office that he is establishing.

In response to Deputy Coppinger's question on funding, we have seen record levels of funding by this Government, with more than €6 billion of capital investment planned for 2025. We know we have to do more, not only specifically for voted allocation for housing itself, but also to the respective utilities that have been raised here today. That is why enabling the infrastructural agencies such as Irish Water, and the respective needs in terms of the grid infrastructure, will be central to increasing the supply of homes. For that reason, in the review of the national development plan, we have identified the strategic priorities that will receive much greater additionality as part of the multi-annual programme we will agree. Housing, energy, water and transport are all central to that. We will not have a national development plan like we have had in previous iterations where there was a general disbursal across government. This is about prioritising clear areas to focus on the supply of homes, so that we support local authorities with strategic land banks, such as Fingal County Council that Deputy Coppinger referenced, to enable the delivery of additional homes. There are probably ten or 11 other local authorities that have the ability to deliver homes at scale. That is why the strategic housing activation office will play a clear role, working with the respective utility companies to try to accelerate the delivery of more homes, including social and affordable homes, complemented by additionality that we will bring in the context of the NDP review. That is what this Government is seeking to do. It is what the Minister, Deputy Browne, is seeking to do through the establishment of the strategic housing activation office. It is all to deliver more homes and more social and affordable homes for families across the country.

Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity)
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With regard to the issues raised about the favoured candidate for the post, the question was whether the Government will investigate these issues, even if the Minister does not want to answer them right now.

We do not need a housing tsar to contact Fingal County Council, have a meeting, discuss its needs and then organise the payment for whatever needs to be done. We do not need a housing tsar. It is not as if this has not been done before. Previous Fianna Fáil governments did this in harder times in the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s. It is not rocket science. What is the role of the housing Minister if somebody has to be hired in and to be called a tsar?

The land bank in Dublin West is a strategic land bank for the whole county. There should have been meetings between the housing Minister and Fingal County Council about it, and getting work on it started straight away.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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I thank the Deputy.

Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity)
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Have those meetings taken place? If they have not, will the Minister organise that they will take place?

Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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Of course the Minister for housing will be taking responsibility for the wider delivery of social and affordable homes across the economy. If there is an engagement or a meeting, it is important to have a structure in the Department of housing to ensure there is follow through, to ensure there are no delays and to ensure the respective utilities are actually following through on the plans the Government would seek to fund. In identifying strategic land banks, like the one the Deputy referenced in Fingal County Council and those in other local authorities, we need to try to force co-ordination by the respective utility companies and local authorities to increase the provision of social and affordable homes. If the Deputy engages with anyone who is developing housing or is trying to increase the provision and supply of housing across our economy, whether it is an approved housing body or indeed in the private sector, they will all tell her that there are co-ordination issues-----

Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity)
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Has the Minister met the councils?

Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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-----which need to be managed very carefully and actively. Having a structure in government to do that and to force that will help to yield greater housing supply which people should welcome. It would be much better for the Deputy to provide constructive input into actually supporting that office with the Minister for housing. It would make a big difference.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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I have been told by people working within the health service that there are senior healthcare professionals at the moment, including some consultants, who are creating their own private companies and diverting patients from public waiting lists to their newly created private companies. It has been alleged in one case that a consultant, who created a private firm to read scans, used the hospital public waiting lists to funnel work through rostering into his own private company. It is an incredible situation and a major conflict of interest for anybody in a public role to be doing this in relation to their own businesses. The Minister must admit that we cannot allow anybody on the public payroll to be in a position where they are creating a private company and funnelling public work to their own private company.

I put a parliamentary question to the Minister for Health a couple of weeks ago to see if this practice is widespread within the sector and the response I got is quite shocking. An internal audit report carried out by the office of the chief internal auditor was written less than a year ago and its job was to ascertain if private companies were used to provide additional services such as this. It found that there was a major breakdown in terms of compliance and value for money.

For example, UHL was found not to have conducted an open procurement process with €14.2 million paid to these types of providers just in one year, 2023. Management confirmed that there were no dedicated procurement functions within the group for this. In UHL two private providers were owned or part-owned by two separate UHL employees. A third company was owned by a HSE employee with another hospital. This corroborates the allegations of this practice happening that have been made to me.

That report states that the Government was getting a handle on it, but we are actually hearing of this happening in real time at the moment. Hospitals have work coming at them at a fierce rate at the moment. I know of one hospital with a backlog of 960 biopsies at the moment. Within that backlog, there are people with cancers. There are delayed diagnoses, delayed treatments and more negative outcomes as results of this. It is clear that we do not have enough beds within the system. It is clear that investment is not getting to the front line and is getting caught up in administration. The population of the State grew by 100,000 people last year. The Government's pay and numbers policy is an effective recruitment embargo on the health service.

The INMO is having its conference today. Will the Minister send a message to that conference today to say to nurses and doctors that the Government has their backs? Will he send a message to say that the Government will end the practice of public staff creating private companies and funnelling patients from public lists into their own private companies in future?

Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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The matters the Deputy has raised are very serious and need to be properly and thoroughly followed through by the HSE. There are references there to conflicts of interest and value-for-money concerns, which are extremely concerning. Under initiatives to reduce waiting lists, the HSE can outsource to private hospitals under the surgical services framework and the private provider framework.

The HSE looks internally within and across hospital sites to deliver insourcing pathways. As part of the waiting list action plan, there is a focus on deploying additional weekend, evening and out-of-hours activity to reduce overall waiting lists. I understand that at the request of the Minister for Health, the CEO of the HSE has initiated a detailed survey of all insourcing activity in the HSE which will be assigned by finance, internal audit, HR and access integration functions. The CEO has also issued an instruction that all insourcing where existing staff are hired, engaged or paid by a separate entity to work on initiatives in their own place or type of work must now be paused. Only insourcing where the HSE directly engages its staff through payroll can continue until this survey has been completed.

The ultimate aim of the work is to move beyond the dependence the Deputy referenced on insourcing or outsourcing in favour of planned and stabilised rostering of all staff. An internal audit referenced by the Deputy on insourcing in UHL found that consultants carried out insourcing in the hospital. The audit found that consultants set up private companies and referred patients to their own companies, and that tender processes were not appropriately followed. The CEO of the HSE has instigated a review of insourcing across the HSE, as I said, not just because of the audit i have mentioned but also due to broader concerns about how it operates and value for money considerations.

On the instruction to pause work where existing staff are hired or engaged by a separate entity to work on initiatives in their own place, it is examining all arrangements and contractual agreements in an effort to pause this work as quickly as possible. I appreciate, having been made aware of this issue, that it is serious. If appropriate procedures have not been followed, there has to be full follow through from the HSE. All dimensions of the respective financial frameworks regarding insourcing and outsourcing should be followed by anyone working in the HSE. I have tried to provide some clarity on the matter today.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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I welcome the pause in insourcing, but we have to ask why this is happening. I spoke to staff in a hospital in the midlands today. They told me they had a red escalation over the bank holiday weekend, which is unheard of in the middle of summer. It is something that usually happens in December and January. They have been told to get patients out of the hospital and free up operations and other elective engagements so that they can orientate staff towards the people in emergency departments.

There are 461 people on trolleys today - 461 people who were crowded into hospitals overnight with the lights on and did not get any sleep, etc. Some 50,000 hospital appointments have been cancelled so far this year. Over the past four years, 800,000 hospital appointments have been cancelled. Today, there are 800 vacancies for consultants. We have a major crisis in terms of resources in the hospital and that is why this is happening. It is not good enough to pause what is happening; we also need to get rid of the pay and numbers embargo on staff so that we can resource the treatment that needs to be delivered to patients.

Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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One of the main areas of focus for the new Minister for Health has been the need to address work time during the evenings and over weekends. The Minister has been proactive in managing that over the past number of weeks, in particular, to ensure we have a greater presence of senior consultants and others across the hospital system in order to try to accelerate discharge and provide senior oversight in the clinical environment over the weekend period. We are seeing the positive outworking of that in the ongoing management and work between the Minister for Health and the HSE.

With regard to the pay and numbers strategy, a significant increase in the health budget was agreed last July between the Minister, Deputy Donohoe, and the then Minister, Stephen Donnelly, which gave multiannual two-year certainty to the HSE to manage its overall pay and numbers in the context of a two-year framework. That was welcomed at the time by the HSE and the hospitals within it, in particular tertiary hospitals and others, so that they could accelerate recruitment over that window of time. That has provided a benefit to the HSE in terms of managing increased clinical workload.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Before we move to Other Members' Questions, I would like to mention our visitors from Ballyadams National School in County Laois, who are here at the behest of Deputy William Aird. You are welcome.