Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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2. To ask the Minister for Education and Skills following the reduction to higher education student fees, if he will provide assurance that student fees will not rise again in the future; if he is considering fully abolishing further and higher education student fees; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [14941/25]

Donna McGettigan (Clare, Sinn Fein)
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5. To ask the Minister for Education and Skills his plans for the contributory fee; if he will maintain the cut in the fee, as has been set out in the programme for Government; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [14866/25]

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I have a suggestion for the Minister. It is to abolish all fees for third level and for apprenticeships. We have critical shortages in skills across our economy and across our society. It makes no sense to have fees. My question today particularly relates to the Union of Students in Ireland's concerns that not only is the Government not going to abolish fees, which it should, but it is actually thinking of getting rid of the once-off reduction of €1,000, which was brought in over the last years. The Minister commented to that effect recently. Will the Minister give us an assurance that this will not happen and that we will move in the other direction?

Peter Cleere (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Minister.

James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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I believe there is another question.

Donna McGettigan (Clare, Sinn Fein)
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Should I ask my question or speak to it?

Peter Cleere (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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I apologise, it is a group question so only one speaker asks a question. The Deputy will get a chance to respond.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Yes, the Minister comes in and then Deputy McGettigan gets to respond.

Donna McGettigan (Clare, Sinn Fein)
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Yes, that is fine.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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It is unusual for Priority Questions to be grouped.

James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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I do not mind taking them separately either. I am in the hands of the Acting Chair.

Peter Cleere (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister has four minutes.

James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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I appreciate that.

Peter Cleere (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputies will both be coming in individually anyway.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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It is unusual for Priority Questions to be grouped.

James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 2 and 5 together.

The programme for Government does indeed commit to reducing the student contribution in a financially sustainable manner over the lifetime of the Government. As part of the cost-of-living packages over the last three budgets the student contribution was reduced by €1,000 per annum on a temporary basis at a net cost of circa €99 million per annum. These measures were in response to particular cost-of-living challenges arising at the time and were not intended to be a permanent solution.

It is worth extrapolating the figures in totality. A €1,000 reduction of the type we saw during the cost-of-living measures equates to €99 million. A €2,000 reduction would equate to €200 million, and the full abolition, which the Deputy calls for, would equate to €300 million per annum. To extrapolate that over the term of the Government that is €1.5 billion. These are significant figures. I have an open mind on the Deputies' suggestions but I am sure the Deputies will agree that there are other competing priorities chasing those same scarce resources.

In considering how we can continue to address financial burdens for students and their families in a long-term, sustainable way, I am conscious of the opportunity costs and trade-offs associated with any policy option. We have to allocate resources in the fairest, most effective way possible. Given the reality of finite resources, allocations should be made in a targeted way to ensure those students most in need will be supported.

It is important to state that many students and their families do not pay the student contribution because their costs are covered by SUSI grants. In the last academic year, over 43,000 students had their full contribution paid for through SUSI, over 7,600 students received a 50% contribution, and a further 16,000 students had a €500 reduction in the student contribution fee. This means that 66,600 students in total, or almost half of all students, had the student contribution fee paid in full or in part by the State. In addition to those supports, my Department also paid out €368 million in the academic year in question as part of a free-fees initiative, which benefited all eligible students progressing through third level, amounting to some 143,000. All benefited from fee supports from the State, regardless of means, under the free fees scheme.

Notwithstanding these figures, which are important to put on the record to inform the debate, no decisions have been made and we are still early in the budget process. I am very much open to views and stakeholder feedback and I am inviting interested parties to a cost-of-education event that I intend to hold and chair next week. I will be hearing from students, representatives of the student population, access officers, student services employees, people who work with students on a day-to-day basis, advocacy organisations and those who advocate for under-represented students in education and minorities, and policymakers. My aim is to provide an opportunity for all stakeholders to have their say to inform the debate and my policy formulation on the cost-of-education issues. Following the event, I intend to publish an options paper, which will identify costs and potential impacts of various policy options identified, with the overall goal of reducing the cost of higher education. This will inform decisions on budget 2026. I look forward to the engagement and the policy discussion that will inevitably follow.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Yeah, right. Is the Minister considering getting rid of the temporary reduction in fees or not? He should just tell us straight. He should not get rid of it. Doing so is outrageous and he should be going in the opposite direction. Why? There is now a 15% dropout rate among undergraduates. Five thousand drop out in first year, representing an increase in recent times up to 12% from 9%. What government could stand over that when we have shortages in the construction profession, trades, the healthcare sector and industry? There is nowhere without a shortage of skills. It is insane to put financial and other barriers in the way of people. Students are dropping out not only because of fees but also because of financial hardship. The cost-of-living impact on families is clearly a factor. There are also the costs of accommodation and travel, stress and mental health pressure, but the financial aspect is big.

It would cost €255 million to get rid of fees and €100 million to get rid of postgraduate fees, and a fraction of that to get rid of apprenticeship costs, which we discussed earlier. It would be money well invested in people we need to make our society function.

Donna McGettigan (Clare, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister will have to excuse my scepticism. He is bamboozling me with figures on this. The programme for Government commits to continuing to reduce the student contribution fee over the lifetime of the Government. What the Minister is saying here falls far short of the commitment to reduce the fees to zero. There is no timeline for this or detail on the increments. Higher education is a public good and those who avail of it contribute immeasurably to society. As already said, people are put to the pins of their collars trying to pay for this. Some parents have more than one child going to college and cannot afford to send them. They must decide whether to send both or none. This is very unfair on them. Other parts of the economy also require newly skilled graduates. There is increasing use of modern methods of construction and housing delivery and the programme for Government commits the Minister to promoting these. Graduates add value to our economy and society and must be assisted if they are to achieve their full potential. Putting financial obstacles in their way is short-sighted and counter-productive.

James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Boyd Barrett asked about the temporary reduction. It was a temporary reduction; that is the point. It is important that we put it on a more sustainable, long-lived, permanent track, and that is part of the consultation I intend to hold with students, student bodies, stakeholders and universities to understand what would be a more holistic, sustainable formula to meet the cost of education for students and their families.

I appreciate that Deputy McGettigan said I am bamboozling her with figures, but 66,600 students already receive a student contribution from the State, in full or in part, towards the student contribution, in addition to the 143,000 students who have their fees, apart from the student contribution, paid in full. There are very few undergraduates who do not have their fees paid by the State. There are a couple of reasons they would not be paid. In this regard, a student may be doing a second degree course or may come from outside this State. There are a couple of technical categories but the vast majority of undergraduate students have their fees paid in full by the State. In addition, the student contribution fee, which is a separate charge for one's course, is met in almost half of cases in full or in part by the State.

I absolutely understand that there are those who are put to the pins of their collars, as Deputy McGettigan put it. I know some and engage with them in my constituency and in my normal business. What I want to understand is why they are not eligible for SUSI grants and the existing supports. There are existing supports. If there are gaps in the system, these are exactly what I want to identify in the consultation. If the eligibility thresholds need to be examined, bars need to be widened or gaps need to be addressed, this should be done.

I am unconvinced by the concept of having no means test or a free-for-all, based on our saying we will have universal abolition. I do not know whether Deputy Boyd Barrett agrees with me. The programme for Government refers to a sustained reduction in a financially sustainable way, not about abolition. Deputy McGettigan referred to a reduction to zero. That would be abolition. That is not mentioned in the programme for Government. I want to support students and their families and make education accessible. That is why we are paying the fees for 143,000 students and supporting 66,600 students in part or in full with the student contribution fee. However, I am open to the conversation on how we can target those who really need the support.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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If 5,000 undergraduates dropping out each year does not concern the Minister, he really needs to rethink his being the Minister for higher education. It is obvious that we have an urgent problem affecting our entire economy and society owing to the lack of skilled people, as well as the mental health issues and all the stress put on the students who drop out and their families. I suspect there is a financial reason. Every year, the most profitable multinational corporations get €800 million in research and development tax credits. These are companies that are already making astonishing profits. I suggest that the Minister redirect some of this tax credit money towards getting rid of fees for students, postgraduates and apprentices. That would benefit our society a hell of a lot more and be a lot better for the sustainability of our economy and society. This is a simple suggestion on how to pay.

Donna McGettigan (Clare, Sinn Fein)
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Free fees worked in secondary schools and has helped Ireland greatly. There are huge issues with the SUSI grant. People who are trying to prove they are separate from their parents in order to get the SUSI grant are not getting it. There is an issue with the way in which SUSI considers people's circumstances. If you were working two years ago, SUSI will look at your income at that time, not at the past year, in which you might have lost your job and did not have an income to pay for the fees. Education is a fundamental right. Charging parents a contribution fee discourages students from accessing higher education, particularly those who may struggle to afford the fee. As already stated, there are issues with the SUSI grant.

Many students already face financial hardship, forcing some to take on loans or part-time jobs, and this affects their academic performance. If institutions require additional funding to maintain or improve academic quality, this should be the responsibility of the Government, not the students.

James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputies. Deputy Boyd Barrett should note that I am of course concerned about students dropping out. One or five is too many, never mind 5,000. I would like to understand the reasons. Some analysis would be helpful and I will look into this. I understand that meeting the cost of college has never been easy. I also understand that if the supports, which are abundant in the system and paid for by the State, are not reaching those most in need, something is going wrong. I am not convinced that flat abolition or having free frees, or whatever you want to call the arrangement, is the answer. This would represent a use of scarce resources that could perhaps be more targeted at those in need. I believe in the progressive policy "To each according to their needs", not "To each, everything", so we have to be prudent and progressive in how we manage the allocations.

I am surprised that Deputy Boyd Barrett takes aim at the research and development tax credit.

It is a really useful measure and that research and development support is exactly the kind of thing we should be encouraging. We all know about global headwinds, changing economic tides, trade tariffs and so forth. We have talent, research and development and innovation in this country and that is what has fuelled the enterprise model we have pursued since the sixties and seventies, which has successfully widened the public good by widening the resources available to the public good.

All the other things we want to do in terms of education, housing and health are supported through that type of revenue because that is the economic model we support and subscribe to and that creates the resources. Private enterprise creates the public good, which can then be distributed to do all the things we want to do in this Chamber on a daily basis. I am a big supporter of that model.