James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

Deputy Boyd Barrett asked about the temporary reduction. It was a temporary reduction; that is the point. It is important that we put it on a more sustainable, long-lived, permanent track, and that is part of the consultation I intend to hold with students, student bodies, stakeholders and universities to understand what would be a more holistic, sustainable formula to meet the cost of education for students and their families.

I appreciate that Deputy McGettigan said I am bamboozling her with figures, but 66,600 students already receive a student contribution from the State, in full or in part, towards the student contribution, in addition to the 143,000 students who have their fees, apart from the student contribution, paid in full. There are very few undergraduates who do not have their fees paid by the State. There are a couple of reasons they would not be paid. In this regard, a student may be doing a second degree course or may come from outside this State. There are a couple of technical categories but the vast majority of undergraduate students have their fees paid in full by the State. In addition, the student contribution fee, which is a separate charge for one's course, is met in almost half of cases in full or in part by the State.

I absolutely understand that there are those who are put to the pins of their collars, as Deputy McGettigan put it. I know some and engage with them in my constituency and in my normal business. What I want to understand is why they are not eligible for SUSI grants and the existing supports. There are existing supports. If there are gaps in the system, these are exactly what I want to identify in the consultation. If the eligibility thresholds need to be examined, bars need to be widened or gaps need to be addressed, this should be done.

I am unconvinced by the concept of having no means test or a free-for-all, based on our saying we will have universal abolition. I do not know whether Deputy Boyd Barrett agrees with me. The programme for Government refers to a sustained reduction in a financially sustainable way, not about abolition. Deputy McGettigan referred to a reduction to zero. That would be abolition. That is not mentioned in the programme for Government. I want to support students and their families and make education accessible. That is why we are paying the fees for 143,000 students and supporting 66,600 students in part or in full with the student contribution fee. However, I am open to the conversation on how we can target those who really need the support.

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