Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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90. To ask the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport his views on the urgent need to remove the Dublin Port tunnel toll to reduce carbon emissions; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21140/22]

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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I am glad to see both the Minister and Minister of State here. This is something I certainly cannot be accused of being populist about. In the past week we have heard all about turf and carbon emissions. In the life of this Government but also in my previous role as head of the Irish Road Haulage Association, I have been asking whey the barrier has not been removed from the Dublin Port tunnel. It is a toll barrier, despite trucks being able to use the tunnel for free, and it causes an extra 40,000 litres of fuel to be expended into the atmosphere daily, equivalent to 10 million litres per year. Will either the Minister or Minister of State indicate the Government view on the urgency of removing this toll barrier to protect the lung health of people in Dublin?

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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Under the Roads Acts, 1993 to 2015, the operation and management of individual national roads is a matter for Transport Infrastructure Ireland, TII, in conjunction with the local authorities concerned and, therefore, matters relating to the day-to-day operations regarding national roads, including toll roads and the establishment of a system of tolls, are within the remit of TII. More specifically, the statutory power to levy tolls, to make toll bye-laws and to enter into agreements with private investors are vested in TII under Part 5 of the Roads Acts.

TII has advised that for operational and safety reasons it is essential that barrier control be retained at the toll plaza. It does not follow that removing the toll would lead to a reduction in carbon emissions. On the contrary, TII is concerned that, on the whole, removing the tolls would lead to an increase in congestion as more cars would be incentivised to use the tunnel. This would result in an increase in fuel consumption and an increase in carbon emissions. Increased levels of congestion in the vicinity of the Dublin Port tunnel would negatively impact the freight and logistics sector.

The tunnel has facilitated the removal of heavy goods vehicles traffic away from Dublin city centre and in so doing has improved the overall environment, air quality and road safety in the city. The road safety improvements have been beneficial for vulnerable road users such as cyclists and pedestrians. Moreover, the tunnel has delivered benefits to Irish road hauliers, providing a reliable connection between Dublin Port and the motorway network.

The tunnel opened to traffic in December 2006. The toll plaza equipment and the control system software date from the design period in the years prior to the opening. TII has confirmed that it intends to go to tender on an upgrade of both the tolling system software and hardware and it aims to implement the upgrade later in 2022 and 2023. This will result in quicker barrier movement and speedier throughput of vehicles, reducing delays at the barrier and increasing the overall reductions in CO2 emissions coming from tunnel usage.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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I must express my frustration and exasperation at such a rote answer written by civil servants who as Deputy Fitzmaurice said earlier just do not know what they are talking about. There is no toll to be paid by trucks and there is no suggestion that by removing the barrier, the tunnel would be free for use by all vehicles. Newer technology, such as that used on the M50, would mean the truck would not have to stop at a barrier and the extra torque, which currently leads to a litre of fuel being used and emissions going into the atmosphere, would not need to be expended. It is the stopping and starting of the truck that expends the litre of fuel.

There were many benefits mentioned by the Minister but none makes any sense. An extra 40,000 litres of fuel are being used, with emissions going into the atmosphere, but an Environmental Protection Agency report indicates World Health Organization safe levels are being exceeded. We are paying fines to the EU for exceeding limits. Does it not make sense to the Green Party Minister to remove the toll barrier, which would prevent all I have mentioned?

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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The Minister of State, Deputy Naughton, and I have spent much time in recent months trying to consider various measures to support or help the haulage sector. We will continue to do so at a difficult time. Included in this we examined whether we could remove the restrictions on the tunnel. The Deputy is correct that trucks do not pay tolls but we considered whether we could remove the barriers altogether so there would, in effect, be a free-flowing system.

My recollection of discussing this matter in advance with civil servants is that it is not about a failure to collect a toll but rather the safety management of the tunnel, which is their primary concern. At certain times of the day there are many trucks using the tunnel and they must be managed so that too many vehicles are not queuing within the tunnel. They must ensure the traffic is spaced out and does not exceed safety limits. That is the primary reason. It is one of safety, control and management of the tunnel.

There is a concern that if the tunnel was barrier-free there could be an increase in its use by private cars. That is why that element was in the answer. It is primarily a safety or traffic management concern. Both the Minister of State and I are examining every solution to help hauliers. In the end we must heed safety advice from civil servants and experts for fear that an accident would lead us to ruing the day we did not.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Again, it is not about helping hauliers but rather the 1,300 people that we have heard said all week die due to lung health issues caused by carbon in our atmosphere. Here we have 40,000 litres of extra fuel being expended every day, amounting to more than 10 million litres per year, and that could be prevented.

There are tunnels all over the world that are not managed by toll barriers. Is the Minister telling me it is beyond the civil servants to look at other models around the world to find a solution so we do not expend an extra 10 million litres of fuel per annum? He is considering banning turf on the basis of lung health concerns. I am talking about N2O emissions into an atmosphere already congested with carbon. Is the Minister telling me the best they can come up with is that it is a safety concern? No toll barrier is used as a safety mechanism for a tunnel that I am aware of in any part of the world and I have been in most countries in Europe where these tunnels are.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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Every tunnel and road has different characteristics but this tunnel has its own characteristics. We lead all the trucks around the M50-----

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Is the Minister saying the lung damage caused by an extra 10 million litres of fuel being used is acceptable?

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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We cannot start an exchange of views.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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No. In every way, we must look to improve air quality and traffic causes some of the pollutants that affect lung health. The effect tends to be more localised.

This tunnel, access to the port and management of that port have certain characteristics that are required to be managed in an organised way. There are deep tunnels all over the world and each has different characteristics as to why they might need management. Having looked at this - having pressed and tried with all the will we could muster - the line came back that we must accept from the experts managing the tunnel. For the safe operation of this tunnel-----

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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I would like a report on what they have looked at.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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I will quite happily provide further background from my Department.