Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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The final matter is in the names of Deputies Jennifer Whitmore and John Brady, and it is to discuss the closure of an outdoor recreational business due to increasing insurance costs.

Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
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I would like to raise the issue of spiralling insurance costs for small businesses, especially recreational businesses. In particular, I want to talk to about a company in north Wicklow, called Squirrel’s Scramble.

Squirrel’s Scramble is an extremely successful business in north Wicklow. It has operated for many years. It provides a key part of family life in the north Wicklow area. I would imagine most children have been through the facility. Those who own it offer a fun and challenging outdoor experience for children, which is exactly what parents want. Unfortunately, Squirrel’s Scramble has notified the community that it is being forced to close because of spiralling insurance costs. Those costs have risen from €26,000 to €88,000. That has happened without any change in the facility's operations and without any claims being made on its insurance. This is a real sign that there is a dysfunction in the insurance market at the moment. These costs are crippling this company and forcing it out of business, which is not acceptable.

This is a much broader issue and it is not just recreational businesses that are affected. Charities are also facing these crippling insurance costs. Something needs to be done because these are sorts of businesses and charities that hold our communities together and provide major services.

My understanding is that the Minister of State has agreed to meet with the company over the next couple of weeks. I wonder what tangible actions he can put in place to make sure that this company can reopen next spring. I know that the Government has put measures in place and that there have been changes to the insurance regime, but those changes are not trickling down and making an impact for businesses on the ground. They are also not impacting on the insurance premiums they are being charged.

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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I also want to raise with the Minister of State the serious issue of the escalating cost of providing insurance cover and the negative impact it is having on communities right across the State. I am speaking specifically here about County Wicklow and the impact it is having on a small successful business, Squirrel's Scramble, which had to take the difficult decision to close down temporarily because of the escalating insurance cost.

This is primarily down to the greed of the insurance industry but it is also a stark failure of the Government to get to grips with this rip-off industry. In 2017, Squirrel's Scramble's insurance costs were €3,000. Last year, they were €26,000. This year, the company was being quoted a price of €88,000 to provide the same cover. It is a crippling and unnecessary blow to a small business, a local community and the thousands of customers who avail of the excellent facilities at the adventure park throughout the year. It is also a devastating blow to the 20 staff who work in the facility.

The Minister of State previously stated that he promised to get additional competition into the Irish insurance market. He has failed to do that. I ask him to address this failure to bring in additional competition. I also want to repeat the call to introduce reform in relation to the insurance industry, including legislative changes to the duty of care provisions. If customers are to continue to enjoy the services offered by adventure parks such as Squirrel's Scramble, they will also have to share in the responsibility for their own safety. The legislation, as it currently stands, is simply not fit for purpose. All that is required is a straightforward amendment to the Civil Liability and Courts Act 2004 in order to allow the Government to improve the legislation around waivers so that there is a knowledge and understanding that when you sign a form, it is strong, solid and will stand up in court. That is something that the Minister of State committed to doing in the programme for Government a year and a half ago. Perhaps he can clarify where that is.

Seán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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At the outset, I wish to acknowledge the issues raised by Deputies Whitmore and Brady regarding the difficulties being experienced by businesses in the leisure and outdoor recreational sector in obtaining public liability insurance, including the specific company that has been mentioned by the Deputies in the north Wicklow area. Such SMEs play a key role from an economic perspective and serve to enrich the quality of life in communities. The company mentioned by the Deputies did that for thousands of children and kids who used the facilities in recent years.

In response to Deputy Brady, who spoke generally on the insurance industry and referred to the rip-off industry and the lack of competition in the area, I was here last night in the Chamber when the Sinn Féin finance spokesperson spoke, during Question Time for the Minister for Finance, in relation to insurance when he was dealing with me on the matter. He said that he shopped around for his own personal car insurance this year and got it for €300 cheaper. Sinn Féin's own spokesperson on finance talked about the value of shopping around. Therefore, I do not accept the Deputy's claim here regarding rip-off insurance. It flies in the face of what his own party's spokesperson on finance described as his own personal experience.

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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How many insurance companies are providing this form of insurance?

Seán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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As the Deputy has brought up the issue, I will not let it go, because what the Deputy said is utterly inconsistent with what his party spokesperson on finance said here last night. That is a reflection of the increased competition that we are seeing. However, both Deputies will know that I cannot comment on individual cases and speak to the insurance costs of individual companies due to many relevant factors that I am not privy to, such as the existence of open claims or other material information to the risk being insured that I would not consciously be aware of.

I also wish to acknowledge, and I say it genuinely, that it is good that the two Deputies have raised this issue today. The Minister of Health, Deputy Stephen Donnelly, has made direct contact with me. I told him yesterday that I would be happy to meet with the company. I am happy to arrange that as soon as possible. I have had no direct personal contact with the company but I am sure that it can be arranged. I will be guided by the people involved as to who attends that meeting. If the Deputies want to be part of that meeting, I am happy with that. I have no problem with that.

In relation to the specifics, the answer is that I cannot write an insurance policy for the company directly. I think everybody knows that. However, what I will endeavour to do is talk to Insurance Ireland and Brokers Ireland in particular, because perhaps some broker in another part of the country entirely may have some knowledge in this area. I am not offering any panacea but we will put the relevant parties in touch with the right people in relation to the issue.

That brings us back to the issue that has been mentioned, namely, the duty of care legislation. I agree with Deputy Brady that the legislation needs to be amended. People do sign forms accepting responsibility and they are in at their own risk but when push comes to shove, the courts take a different view and the insurance companies often have to make settlements. The duty of care provisions that we have do not stand up as the way the Deputy and I would want them to. It is in our action plan for insurance to deal with that specific issue by legislating, which we will be so doing. I will come back with a timetable on the issues. I will issue a regular update in relation to the insurance issue on a quarterly basis, with the next update being issued in the coming weeks.

The duty of care is a big issue and it affects many leisure industries around the country, where, on the face of it, there is high risk, but where there should also be parental supervision. People have to watch what they are doing, know what is appropriate for them and take care.

I am offering to meet representatives from the company mentioned by the Deputies and whoever else if they so wish.

Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
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I welcome the Minister of State's response. I would also welcome the opportunity to attend the meeting. I will contact the company and ask representatives to reach out to the Minister of State directly to set up that meeting.

In relation to the duty of care legislation, I ask the Minister of State to expedite it because there is a real risk that companies will go under while these reforms are taking place. County Wicklow really prides itself on being a recreational centre for the east coast. It is a key element of the offering that we have as a county. We cannot afford for these small local businesses to go under while the reforms are going through the bureaucratic process. That is a real risk. As we have seen, the Minister of State has started that process but as I said earlier, it is not trickling down to the ground to where these businesses are being affected.

In relation to the comments about shopping around, it is my understanding that only one insurer deals with this area, so I would welcome it if the Minister of State would contact the brokers to see if there is any other insurance company or mechanism that could be available to this company.

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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To use the Minister of State's own words, he is not offering any panacea. Indeed, he is not offering any hope either. That is what is needed here. Unfortunately, it is the dragging of heels by this Government and its predecessors that has resulted in the crisis we see on the ground. The Minister of State is out of touch. Brokers are trying to shop around. Indeed, the insurance provider that provided the cover to the company last year has pulled out of the Irish market. There is no competition there. Virtually zero companies are offering it. Brokers are trying to shop around. That is how they came up with the quote of €88,000, which nobody can defend.

The Minister of State has stated that the Minister for Justice is leading on the duty of care legislation. It was a commitment in the programme for Government 18 months ago. Yet, we are being told that it is an advanced stage but there is no commitment to actually move it through. While the Minister of State is sitting there offering no panacea, hope or solution-----

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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The Deputy is over time.

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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-----businesses are closing right across the State, including Squirrel's Scramble. I look forward to attending that meeting with representatives of Squirrel's Scramble and the Minister of State-----

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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The Deputy is over time.

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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Hopefully, the Minister of State will have solutions at that stage.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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Deputy, we are over time and we are eating into Private Members' Business.

Seán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I will conclude as quickly as I can. I understand the comments being made. There a few points on which I would like to elaborate. Everybody knows that the insurance industry is regulated by the Central Bank. Nobody in the Department of Finance is trying to tell the Central Bank and individual companies how to run their individual policies. The Deputy across from me now would be the first to say that I was interfering in an area in which I should not interfere. That said, we want to ensure that the industry works the way it should.

Second, the judicial guidelines that came out earlier this year have brought about a reduction in settlements so far. The Personal Injuries Assessment Board, PIAB, issued a preliminary report before the summer showing a reduction in the cost of claims. What the insurance companies in Ireland and those coming to Ireland want is a bit of certainty on how much it will cost if there is an accident.

10 o’clock

We did not have that up to now but we have had it since April of this year. That helps attract businesses into Ireland, perhaps including businesses that left as a result of Brexit, which was not our decision. In light of that, I have also had regular meetings with IDA Ireland with a view to getting new insurance companies to enter the Irish market. At least two major international companies are seriously looking at the Irish market now that they have a bit of certainty regarding the cost of doing business here.

With regard to duty of care, this is one of the actions listed in the action plan for insurance which we published approximately 12 months ago. Two thirds of those commitments have already been implemented in those 12 months. I look forward to bringing that particular matter to a conclusion in the months ahead through the introduction of robust legislation in that area which will make it safer for businesses to operate in difficult situations such as this. I know there is certainty regarding the cost of claims.

I have met a number of Deputies here in the House in recent days who have said that their personal motor insurance quotes have gone down in the last 12 months. I know some will have had different experiences but many people are experiencing reductions in their insurance costs.