Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire (Cork South Central, Sinn Fein)
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27. To ask the Minister for Education and Skills her views on whether special educational units in mainstream schools are not suitable for all children with additional needs; and her plans to increase special educational places and to open new special schools. [39971/20]

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire (Cork South Central, Sinn Fein)
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It is very positive that additional ASD units are being opened in schools across the State. Undoubtedly, we need many more. The demand for units is constantly growing. However, my question focuses on the fact that while those units fulfil a very important role, they are not suitable for everyone. I am concerned that we are not building enough special schools and that there may be some resistance to these schools, not from the Minister of State but from others. What are the Minister of State's plans in this area?

Josepha Madigan (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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It is my belief that children with special educational needs should receive their education in placements which are appropriate to their needs alongside their peers wherever possible unless such an approach would be inconsistent with the best interests of the individual child or other children in the school.

This approach is consistent with the provisions of the Education for Persons with Special Educational Needs, EPSEN, Act 2004.

My Department's policy is therefore to provide for the inclusive education of children with special educational needs in mainstream schools. The majority of children with special needs attend mainstream education with additional supports. This policy is supported by significant investment by Government which amounts to €2 billion or 20% of the total education spend. This funds the provision of additional teachers, special needs assistants and other supports required to enable children with special needs to access education.

Only where it has been assessed that the child is unable to be supported in mainstream education are special class placements or special school placements or ASD units, recommended and provided for. Therefore it is not the case that special educational placements are required to support all children with special educational needs, nor is it intended that this should be the case.

My Department will continue to provide for a continuum of provision, which includes ASD units, special class and special school places for children who have been assessed as needing such placements.

The Department's school building programme is focused on providing the additional school places to ensure that every child, including children with special needs, has a school place. This includes opening new schools and extending existing schools in areas where more school places are needed to meet the growing number of children living in these areas.

Funding is also available to schools to establish special classes within existing accommodation. Schools may apply for capital funding to re-configure existing spaces in their building to accommodate the class or to construct additional accommodation.

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire (Cork South Central, Sinn Fein)
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I agree with every word of that response but the key part that we need to drill into is the part that says where it is assessed that it is not possible or suitable for a child to be educated in such a unit and that they have a greater or different need. Generally, that relates to special schools. There is concern among those involved in special schools and in units that there is resistance to the opening of additional special schools. My experience from a number of areas, but I speak particularly of my own constituency in Cork, is that there is a need for probably at least two additional special schools in Cork city and perhaps another in the county. People involved in existing special schools have waiting lists of five years. Naturally, that has a knock-on effect. If a child who needs a place in a special school, which would be the optimum place for them, cannot obtain that place, and they are in a unit, then that place in a unit is potentially denied to a student who does not have any special educational placement. Will the Minister of State confirm that there is a need to build additional special schools?

Josepha Madigan (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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The policy of the Department and the National Council for Special Education, NCSE, is to explore, find out and discover how many special needs places are needed whether it is in special classes, special schools or a child with special needs being integrated into a mainstream class. The Deputy mentioned Cork. St Mary's Special School in Rochestown accommodated an additional six or seven children this year. There are 311 special educational needs classes in total in Cork. There are about 260 ASD classes specifically, including early intervention. The Department has been in discussions with the NCSE, school management and the Cope Foundation through Scoil Aislinn about a possible expansion of places. The Department always looks at short term options and will explore Cork city centre for availability, as well as medium term options including greenfield sites for modular buildings and there are also long-term options.

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire (Cork South Central, Sinn Fein)
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I am aware of much of that. Some positive things are happening in the special education sphere in Cork albeit that it is coming from one of the lowest bases. It is in a very challenging place even compared with other parts of the country. The Minister of State mentioned greenfield sites. Some special schools are in buildings that are just not fit for purpose. They need a greenfield site just to accommodate the children in the schools now.

There has been a lot of talk about the New Brunswick model and the full integration of all children into the mainstream education system. We can talk about these things in the abstract, but in the context of the education system we have with the school buildings and resources that are in place, we are a very long way from being able to deliver that.

We need to look at the needs that currently exist. That includes additional primary and post-primary capacity, but it also has to include special schools. Whatever about specific areas, does the Minister agree that there is scope for additional special schools and that they may be needed?

Josepha Madigan (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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At this point we cannot rule anything in or out. The National Council For Special Education, NCSE, is due to come back to me with its conclusive policy advice on an inclusion model for the Irish system. I like to talk about the Irish model as distinct from any other model. The Deputy will be aware that in this budget we secured funding for the expansion of the school inclusion model into two additional community healthcare organisation areas. That will start in September 2021. This is a multidisciplinary approach which will revolutionise the experiences of children with special needs in this country. There will be speech and language therapists, occupational therapists and behavioural crisis practitioners. All of that is already underway. It is important to bear in mind that in keeping with children's needs, special schools and special classes have different criteria to mainstream schools. This is always about the best interests of the child.