Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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1. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on Europe will next meet. [29924/20]

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Cabinet committee on Europe was established to oversee implementation of the programme for Government commitments on the European Union and related issues. It last met on 8 October in advance of the European Council meeting held in Brussels on 15 and 16 of October, when it discussed European Union and UK relations, climate change and external relations. It will continue to meet as appropriate, including to discuss issues on the agenda of the European Council. The date of the next meeting has not yet been set.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Yesterday, the Taoiseach spoke about the EU's co-ordination efforts in terms of Covid-19. I hope he will agree that in addition to the specific healthcare and services co-ordination in terms of data, expertise and a vaccine, the Taoiseach and his European counterparts are also discussing the wider economic and social challenges that undoubtedly will need to be addressed. These are things that play an immediate and constant role in the everyday lives of people, things that can and should ensure the common challenges facing all of the peoples of Europe can be addressed collectively by their political leaders.

Social solidarity will prove crucial if we are to overcome Covid-19 and keep down infection rates. We have been living with the pandemic for eight months and we will be living with it for some time to come. There is now a very real demand from people for domestic, European and global strategies to tackle the challenges ahead. The strategies need to put social cohesion at their core. Once agreed, leaders need to ensure the path ahead is properly and wholly communicated. Critical issues such as job insecurity and job creation must not only be dealt with but prioritised by member states. Of course, there are some areas where member states are ahead of Ireland and the provision of sick pay is just one example. We have seen throughout the pandemic those employed in precarious sectors attending work for fear of losing pay or losing their job. The absence of a mandatory sick pay scheme in Ireland lags behind other EU states and that this provision remains at an employer's discretion really makes very little sense in a modern economy and is positively dangerous in the grip of a global pandemic. Perhaps the Taoiseach will update us on the Cabinet committee's wider Covid-19 responses and strategic discussions in terms of a cohesive European response to the social challenges and the economic challenges in the months and years ahead.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The European Council discussed co-ordination in the fight against Covid-19. It should be self-evident that at European and national level we need an integrated and properly resourced approach to combat Covid-19. It is worth dwelling on the fact that countries such as Germany have managed better because they have a tremendously well resourced and well staffed integrated national health service. This contrasts with our fragmented semi-privatised understaffed and underresourced service.

The Taoiseach discussed co-ordination and contact tracing at the European Council. The debacle over contact tracing has everything to do with something I highlighted last week, namely, that the HSE is recruiting people on the worst possible temporary contracts. I fundamentally disagree with what Deputy Alan Kelly said today, that the solution to this is to separate contact tracing from the HSE, when the opposite is necessary. We need an integrated publicly run health service whereby workers in contact tracing and throughout the health service are paid properly as part of a single well-resourced health service. Does the Taoiseach agree this is the problem? The reason we do not have a contact tracing system, why hospital front-line healthcare workers are overrun and why we have high infection rates is because it is not properly staffed and we do not properly look after the health staff. We have this ridiculous situation where contact tracing, which is essential for us to be able to get on top of the disease, is outsourced on rubbishy contracts to workers in a fragmented, poorly organised system. This is the key and we should move in the direction of paying contact tracers and other front-line workers properly, giving them decent jobs, staffing things properly and resourcing the front-line services we need to challenge Covid.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The question relates to the Cabinet committee on Europe. I listened very carefully to the statement the Taoiseach made to the House yesterday on the conclusions of the European Council meeting last week. One of the things he said intrigued to me and I underlined it. It was when he said that in particular we, presumably Ireland or perhaps the Council, asked the Commission to give timely consideration to unilateral and time lined contingency measures that are in the European Union's interest. He went on to say this is an important message that is of great relevance to Ireland. I ask the Taoiseach to address my intrigue and tell us what exactly he means by this. What are the unilateral contingency measures the Taoiseach envisages will be implemented by the European Union on Brexit? Does it mean deploying additional resources? Does it mean new legislative provisions? What exactly is the Taoiseach saying on this? As he knows, money is available under the Brexit adjustment reserve fund of €5 billion. I am interested to hear in his response whether the Taoiseach has a sense of what measures will be funded from this or how the money is to be deployed. Has this been part of the discussions to date?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputies for the issues they have raised. The committee deals with Europe and we have a separate Cabinet subcommittee on Covid-19, which deals with all aspects of that. This committee meets to discuss broader European issues, specifically in preparation for European Council meetings. The most important response of the European Council and member states to Covid-19 has been the multilateral financial framework and the next generation EU funding programme, which is unprecedented in that European member states decided, on advice from the Commission, to act collectively to borrow money on the markets to support member states which are under particular pressure as a result of Covid-19 and to underpin them. This type of solidarity manifests itself in terms of giving resources to member states to enable them to deliver on social solidarity domestically. Under the EU institutional rules, of course, this has to get the approval of the European Parliament and there is ongoing trilateral dialogue between the Parliament, Council and Commission. I made the case that it needs to be accelerated.

The European Parliament has its demands and objectives and I say to Deputies who have party members in the European Parliament that the overriding consideration is to get this package through so the funding can start to be distributed and delivered to enable supports to be given to people. In Ireland we are borrowing at very low interest rates at present. We are not necessarily dependent on the borrowing capacity that these funds will afford us, although we will utilise the SURE fund, as the Minister for Finance has said, in respect of borrowing to support the pandemic unemployment payment and the wage subsidy scheme payments. This is the most fundamental response.

On Covid, the European response has been predominantly on the vaccine and the advance purchase agreement, which has been a good development. In previous potential pandemics, such as SARS, Europe was not co-ordinated on vaccine procurement. Developing that type of co-operation was quite embryonic. The European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control is providing much advice to Europe. Europe has developed a proposal on co-ordination on travel.

As I stated earlier when responding to Deputy Ó Murchú in respect of the testing technologies, Europe is pursuing whether we can get a co-ordinated approach to the various technologies that different member states are using for testing. Most do PCR but there are other tests such as antigen and so on. The quarantining frameworks that should apply are also being examined.

I read a very interesting article about testing in Germany. It uses a network of private laboratories for testing. The state has an overarching protocol and a network of private laboratories throughout the country has been utilised for its testing regime. The Deputy's central thesis, therefore-----

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Not in the case of tracing.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy's central thesis about the health service does not apply in that context.

As for treatments and outcomes, I ask the Deputy to defer to clinicians. The outcomes in Ireland during the first phase, in terms of hospital treatments, were quite good, which speaks well of the clinical qualities in our hospitals, such as the quality of clinicians and all our staff, including those in nursing and all involved in intensive care. An excellent programme produced by RTÉ looked at some of the metrics at St. James's Hospital, for example. The outcomes should give us some reassurance.

We can always attack our service and there is endless language of attacking, condemning and undermining it, but there are some very bright spots in our health service. The Health Act 1970 affords people access to our acute hospital system. We have many improvements to make but we have put €4 billion into the health service this year to advance State services and the health service across the board, from home care and primary care to community care and acute hospital care. My ambition on the health front is that after the pandemic, we will have embedded improvements into the health service, as a result of the additional resources, that will be long lasting and to the benefit of the citizens of the country in availing of our health service. That point has to be made.

I am absolutely assured that the contracts are not zero-hour contracts. We have made it clear they cannot be and that they must be proper contracts. Good-quality people are being recruited and it is important the job be done well. That means that people who are recruited will be looked after well, and that there will be a good human resources policy and a good HR environment for anybody who is recruited to the contact tracing or swabbing positions.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I have a copy of the contract. It is not good.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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We have been told they are not zero-hour contracts and I will further interrogate that to ensure that they are proper and to the level they should be.

We want a deal and that is still the outcome that Europe wants, that Ireland certainly wants and that the United Kingdom says it wants. Notwithstanding all the talk last week, therefore, the joint committee has remained engaged on the protocol issue. There has been some constructive engagement in that regard and I hope a deal can be arrived at. In the context of where that does not happen, Europe will have significant decisions to make about contingency planning, and we have to be alive to that too.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Will the Taoiseach share the details with the House?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am not going to go into specifics now because it could influence or have an impact on the negotiations. It might be perceived in a certain way. There are realities that Europe will have to consider, such as what will happen if we are in a no-deal scenario and what contingency plans Europe will apply and in what form.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Should we not debate that?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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We are in a negotiating process. Let us, first, work on ensuring we can bring the United Kingdom to the promised landing zone. Having been apprised by Michel Barnier, I believe the UK can get to a proper landing zone, even on the key issues of a level playing field, governance and fishing. I believe that a great deal of progress was made in earlier chapters of the negotiating process, while on four others, considerable progress was made. In my view, it is possible to get an agreement. If we start talking about what will happen in contingency, that might be seen the wrong way.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Taoiseach raised the matter.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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We have put on record that contingency has to happen.