Dáil debates

Wednesday, 16 October 2019

Ceisteanna (Atógáil) - Questions (Resumed)

Cabinet Committee Meetings

1:20 pm

Photo of Michael MoynihanMichael Moynihan (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
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3. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on national security last met. [39947/19]

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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Cabinet committee F on national security last met in April 2019. A new Cabinet committee on security has since been established that deals with matters relating to justice, defence, Garda reform and national security. This Cabinet committee was scheduled to meet on Thursday, 10 October, but the meeting was postponed as I travelled to England on that day to meet the British Prime Minister. A meeting of the Cabinet committee will be rescheduled for later this month.

The Minister for Justice and Equality recently brought the fifth report of the effectiveness and renewal group to the Government. The report outlines the extensive progress made by the Department during the period April to July 2019. This was a pivotal period in the transformation, where Department defined the detail of the new functional design, developed business planning and process maps, defined new roles and titles, and communicated new work assignments to staff. The report has been published on the Department of Justice and Equality's website.

Regarding policing reform, A Policing Service for the Future, the Government's four-year plan to implement the report of the Commission on the Future of Policing in Ireland was published in December last year. Implementation of the plan is progressing, with the building blocks phase concluding at the end of the year. Two infographics on progress to date are available on the policing reform web page on www.gov.ie.

Following on the recommendations of the report of the Commission on the Future of Policing in Ireland, the Government has established the national security analysis centre to co-ordinate across the relevant Departments and agencies in providing strategic security threat analyses to the Government. Following an open competition, the centre's director was appointed in July and the centre is bringing forward its work and establishing its business arrangements in close co-operation with the partner Departments and agencies.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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On many occasions, core emergency management structures put in place by Deputy Willie O'Dea in 2007 have proven to be highly effective.

Thankfully, however, many of the more complex scenarios that the Office of Emergency Planning was established to prepare for have not yet materialised. In 2016, a review was undertaken of the structures and a new emergency management plan was written. In early 2017, the then Taoiseach told me that publication was imminent. What has happened to that plan?

In recent months, there have been worrying reports of paramilitary groups threatening violence in the event of different Brexit outcomes. So-called republicans and loyalists have apparently raised enough concerns that Prime Minister Johnson has been discussing this with people in recent days. What exactly is the overall security assessment of these groups? By the way, I do not hold that Brexit is an excuse or materially changes the motivation of these groups. They have been engaged in murder and mayhem ever since the Good Friday Agreement, killing soldiers and police officers and were responsible for the most recent murder of Lyra McKee. They have continued to plant explosive devices and so on. I am interested in the overall assessment of their current threat to peace on the island.

1:30 pm

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I wish to ask the Taoiseach about his considerations and the committee's consideration of national security. What is the Taoiseach's current evaluation of the state of the Army and its capacity? I was disappointed that there was no more significant reference to the Army in the budget. Some improvements were cited, and they were welcome. The Army is a significant support to the civil power but its strength is significantly below the target numbers set out in evaluations of what a force such as the Army should be in the Republic of Ireland. While I realise the Taoiseach is having a busy time with Brexit, has he had time to consider establishing a commission on the future of Óglaigh na hÉireann, the Irish Army? It is a cause of considerable distress for all the families in the country whose members have given significant service to Óglaigh na hÉireann that so many people are walking away from the Army because they cannot even afford to buy a house. I put it to the Taoiseach that soldiers who serve one or two terms of duty, and certainly those who serve three terms, should be able to access a Government scheme to help them to fund the purchase of a house. Many members of my family served in the ordinary ranks of the Army. I find it shocking now to meet great-nephews and great-nieces who are interested in an Army career because there is a strong tradition of service in the family but realise they would have no chance of being able to afford a house on an Army wage.

Many members of the Naval Service are sleeping on a ship in Cork Harbour. That is not good for morale.

I realise the Taoiseach has inevitably been preoccupied with Brexit and we wish him well in that regard. However, in the context of this new security committee, does he not think it is time to have a full commission to examine the future of the armed services and the important contribution they make?

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Micheál Martin acknowledged the good groundwork done by Deputy O'Dea in his time as the Minister for Defence in putting together some of the emergency planning structures. I wish to acknowledge that too. The Defence Forces, the Garda and other support services have responded to severe weather and other emergencies very well in recent years. Much of that had to do with the work done in recent years in establishing the national emergency co-ordination centre and ensuring that it was fully up and running. I fully acknowledge the role played by the former Minister, Deputy O'Dea, and previous Governments in putting many of those foundations in place.

The emergency management plan was mentioned. I will have to check up on that because I am not familiar with that particular document, which has not crossed my desk. I get security briefings all the time but I am not familiar with that plan. I will check and revert to the Deputy.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It was in 2016. In early 2017, the Government said publication was imminent.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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Honestly, I will check up on it. It is not a document I am familiar with. Obviously, it should have happened by now, but I will come back to the Deputy on that.

The Deputy asked a question about security assessments. The current assessment of the risk of violence from dissident republicans in Northern Ireland is high. Indeed, we have seen violence in Derry and other places in recent months. The risk of violence in the Republic of Ireland is considered to be low in the most recent national risk assessment.

Everyone in the House will be aware that the Defence Forces are currently under-strength, especially the Naval Service and the Air Corps. It has been a real struggle to retain staff. Recruitment is going well, whereas retention is not going well because there is a much higher turnover than one would expect for defence forces. High turnover is a good thing because it keeps the Defence Forces young but when it is too high, we end up short-staffed, as is currently the case.

I am pleased that the Cabinet this week was able to authorise the return of two people to the Air Corps. Previously, it was not possible for people who left the Defence Forces, including the Naval Service or the Air Corps, to return to service. That is now possible and we have signed off on the return of the first two people seeking to rejoin the Air Corps. That is welcome and I hope it is a sign of things to come. People who try the private sector but miss life in the Defence Forces can now come back. I am glad that option is now in place.

The budget provides for a further increase in spending on defence pay and pensions as well as equipment. New ships have arrived and new aircraft are arriving. The Minister for State at the Department of Defence, Deputy Kehoe, will announce a five-year capital plan for investment in barracks, including accommodation, in the coming weeks. I expect that will be positively received.

Deputy Burton kindly acknowledged the fact that I am preoccupied with Brexit at the moment, but that does not prevent me from doing other things. I have spent a decent amount of time in recent months engaging with defence issues and the Defence Forces. I have been to the Department of Defence in Newbridge. I have met PDFORRA and the Representative Association of Commissioned Officers. I am pleased that RACO has approved the pay package on offer. I know it will want to build on that in the public sector pay talks next year. I am hopeful that PDFORRA will make the same decision on the pay package that has been offered when it ballots in November.

Over the summer, I spent two days with the Naval Service on patrol. I have been to the Curragh and I have also spent some time with the Army Ranger Wing. In addition, I have made various overseas visits with the Defence Forces.

Several people have suggested to me the idea of having a commission on the future of the Defence Forces similar to the Commission on the Future of Policing in Ireland. Most people would acknowledge that the latter commission, which was chaired by Kathleen O'Toole, carried out good work. The Minister of State, Deputy Kehoe, and I are giving consideration to whether we should have a commission on the future of the Defence Forces. It is easy to have a commission on something but we need to think through what the terms of reference might be, how it would work and so on. We already have a White Paper on Defence, which was put together under the Tánaiste, I believe, when he was Minister for Defence. The White Paper is still there and we would have to think through what a commission would do. Would it overturn the White Paper or build on it? To cut a long story short, it is something we are giving some thought to.