Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

4. To ask the Minister for Culture, Heritage and the Gaeltacht if she will initiate a dialogue with the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine in order to make available or release, or both, Land Commission records in the context of the decade of the centenaries events and themes for the period 2019 to 2023; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [8923/19]

Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

My question is on the same theme. I have written to the Minister about the Land Commission records, which were an all-Ireland set of records. They are publicly available in Northern Ireland but completely private in the Republic. They date back to approximately 1892. The critical issue is that a new arrangement came into place in 1922 across all Departments. This is an example of something that could give some sort of lasting legacy in the same way as the military pension records resulted in a lasting archive in regard to the 1916 commemorations.

Josepha Madigan (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Deputy for her question. I received her letter and I understand an acknowledgement was issued.

All matters concerning records of the Irish Land Commission are a matter for the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine and I have no function in this regard. As the Deputy will be aware, this is a very complex and sensitive area. I have had initial inquiries made of the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine and it has no immediate plans to make the estimated 8 million former Irish land Commission records, located at the record storage facility in Portlaoise, generally available to the public for research purposes or otherwise as these are, in its view, still working documents. Officials of the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine regularly access these records to service queries from the public relating to current and past transactions and for the full completion of the work of the former Irish Land Commission.

Owners and purchasers of land and their personal or legal representatives are allowed access to and copies of relevant documents and maps. The records storage facility in Portlaoise is not in a position to provide a research facility, as the provision of such a service would require much greater resources than those currently available. I am advised that many of these files contain private and personal information and, as such, are subject to data protection, including estates' title deeds lodged in the former Irish Land Commission by landed families when the land was being transferred. I am conscious of the enthusiastic public interest in obtaining access to the vast repository of former Irish Land Commission documents held. However, wider access will be a matter for consideration when the completion of the work of the former Irish Land Commission is at a more advanced stage. Furthermore, the records that are available in paper format are fragile, some of them dating back as far as the early 1800s and this resource is irreplaceable in the event of loss or damage. To maintain the records, it is essential they are handled and stored appropriately. I am advised that opening up access to these files cannot be considered until appropriate measures are undertaken to minimise potential damage from routine handling.

Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

They are a treasure trove. The corresponding records up to the foundation of our State are publicly available in the Public Record Office of Northern Ireland so it is difficult to understand why they are not publicly available here. I accept these are paper records and that they are fragile and need to be handled and digitised to enable access without compromising the data source. The type of information available in some of these records is of enormous genealogical value. They include tenant books and other means of establishing title that will be a very valuable resource. It is entirely appropriate to consider these in the context of the decade of centenaries because land played such an important part in our history. It would be a legacy for the future if the records up to 1922 were made available. I would argue that publication of records dating further back would be appropriate.

Josepha Madigan (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Following Independence the commission's records were divided between the jurisdictions. In 1923, the Land Commission was reconstituted to recognise the Free State. The Land Commission archive has two main components, the records branch and the administration branch. The Deputy mentioned these records are publicly available in Northern Ireland. We do not hold the records in question in the same way as the corresponding records are held by the Public Record Office of Northern Ireland. We cannot, therefore, make them available for public scrutiny.

As I said, these documents remain, in part, working records of the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine and any proposals for public access would, therefore, require careful consideration. The commission's work obliged it to establish who had legal title to the properties, which is a hugely complex task and so it began to collect wills, correspondence, State records, family tree records, lease books, tenants' lists, maps, deeds and more.

Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Some of the documents about which the Minister speaks are wills and so on and they are publicly available in the National Archives. We are discussing historical documents. While our lifespan is pretty good I do not think it stretches back to the early 1880s or, for most people, the early 1920s. What I am hearing is the Minister's refusal, put in a nice way. This is a missed opportunity. I ask that the commission be specifically asked about these records.

Josepha Madigan (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We have to understand the constraints involved in regard to the endeavour which the Deputy mentions. As of 1 February 2019 the National Archives has received transfers of 154,579 files in archival boxes, relating to the termination of fair rents by the former Irish Land Commission, which the Deputy mentioned in her letter. Unfortunately, the National Archives are currently unable to make these publicly available owing to a lack of suitable storage space from which they could be retrieved for public consultation in its reading room. This situation is likely to continue until such time as the archives repository project is completed. In addition, the National Archives does not have sufficient archival staff to carry out the processing and checking work necessary before the records can be released to the public.

I am advised that as these archives are still required by the Irish Land Commission for the purpose of the discharge of its ongoing statutory functions it is not possible to transfer the fair rent order files to the National Archives.