Dáil debates

Wednesday, 5 December 2018

Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate

Language Schools

2:30 pm

Photo of Dessie EllisDessie Ellis (Dublin North West, Sinn Fein)
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The unexpected and sudden liquidation of Grafton College language school has left more than 20 members of the teaching staff in a scandalous set of circumstances. They are now without a job and uncertain about their future and have no wages. This is shameful as we approach the Christmas period. Students have been left bewildered and are worried about being able to finish the courses for which they have paid substantial fees. Four hundred students will have to wait until next month before they can continue their courses. While this is welcome, it is still very disruptive and worrying for the students. Unfortunately, this is not the first time this has happened. In 2014 and 2015 close to two dozen language schools were closed suddenly. The sudden closure of such schools without regard for the staff clearly illustrates the nature of precarious employment in and the lack of regulation of this sector. The lack of protection for staff of such colleges in a sector that has proved to be highly profitable is unacceptable. Staff are treated as expendable resources. The Qualifications and Quality Assurance (Education and Training) (Amendment) Bill which is before the Seanad today is vital legislation to give greater security and protection to both staff and students. I encourage Seanadóirí to support amendments to the Bill to strengthen employment protections in the sector. We need the Bill to be passed as quickly as possible in order that the exploitation of teachers in colleges such as Grafton College can end. The staff have requested that the Minister intervene in the debacle. I wonder whether he will meet them. This is the wrong time of the year for a closure to happen as it is coming up to Christmas. To be hit suddenly with such a closure is shameful.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I was outside Grafton College the night before last. The teachers who were gathered there were absolutely distraught, shocked and bewildered at what had happened. Without notice, the college closed. With Christmas coming, the jobs have been lost and the weeks of wages owed to the staff are not forthcoming, which is completely unacceptable.

The Government should take this issue very seriously because, proportionately, Ireland is the main destination for foreign English language students. Approximately 122,000 students of English as a foreign language come here. It is a big industry. In 2015 there were a number of collapses of schools that had not been properly regulated and that did not have proper protections for students. Some protections for students were put in place but none at all for teachers. The teachers are highly qualified and have been left absolutely high and dry. They are asking the Minister to meet them. Some of them are visiting the Seanad. Today or in the next day or two, the Minister should meet talk to them. I know one of the teachers personally. This is the third time this has happened in his career teaching English as a foreign language. He was just left high and dry by one rogue employer after another.

Marketing English in Ireland needs to make a statement on this issue. It needs to state what it intends to do in order to address this problem and ensure it will not recur. We need to know whether the Government will support the amendments suggested by Unite the Union, effectively on behalf of English foreign language teachers, that would give some protection to teachers in the circumstances. To cut a long story short, there is a fund that gives some protection to students. It needs to be expanded to give protection to teachers in order they will not lose their wages if a company disappears in a puff of smoke.

We need proper regulation of this industry to prevent rogue employers behaving like this because it keeps happening. There are very serious questions as to what was going on financially in this company. The signs in this regard are certainly not good because there is not enough regulation of the sector or protection for teachers.

It would be good if the Minister could respond to the following questions. Will he meet the representatives of the teachers? Will he agree to support the amendments that are now before the Seanad and which, it is hoped, will come before the Dáil? Will he get Marketing English in Ireland to make a statement as to what it intends to do about this? Will he ensure that proper protection for teachers is put in place in order that teachers do not lose their earnings in cases such as this?

2:40 pm

Photo of Joe McHughJoe McHugh (Donegal, Fine Gael)
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Go raibh maith agat, a Chathaoirligh, fá choinne an seans labhairt inniu faoin ábhar iontach tábhachtach seo. I thank the Deputies for raising this matter. I regret that this situation has arisen for the students and staff of Grafton College. The fact that we are coming into Christmas lends added significance to the matter.

It is important to note that the majority of English language schools in Ireland are privately run. The relationship between teachers and private providers of education is based on a private contract, and issues relating to working conditions, including payment of wages, are matters between the two parties and do not come under the remit of the Department of Education and Skills. That said, I know there has been a public request in this regard, which the Deputies have repeated. I would be happy to meet the delegation. I can try to juggle and rejig my timetable this evening. If a delegation is in the House today, I would be happy to meet it in my office. I will stay in touch with the Deputies in this regard. I am, however, also conscious of expectations, which is why I put on record my role in such matters. From a human point of view, I would like to meet the delegation.

Quality and Qualifications Ireland, QQI, is closely monitoring the situation arising from the Grafton College closure and is engaging with all relevant stakeholders to ensure the closure will be as orderly as possible. Grafton College is a member of Marketing English in Ireland, MEI, an association of English language schools. I understand that students from Grafton College will be able to complete their studies in another MEI member school. Employees affected by the closure of a business may be entitled to apply, through the liquidator, to the insolvency payments scheme, which is administered by the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection. I have spoken to my colleague, the Minister, Deputy Regina Doherty, in this regard.

The Minister of State with responsibility for higher education, Deputy Mitchell O'Connor, is progressing legislation through the Oireachtas which is intended to strengthen substantially regulation and quality in the English language education sector. The Qualifications and Quality Assurance (Education and Training) (Amendment) Bill is scheduled for Committee Stage in the Seanad today, 5 December. The new Bill will establish the international education mark and a learner protection fund. The international education mark, IEM, is a core component of the Government's policy for the English language sector. Only those providers that meet the robust quality assurance procedures of Quality and Qualifications Ireland will be allowed to carry the mark and recruit international students. The IEM will provide learners, or potential learners, with the necessary confidence that providers with the IEM have been quality-assured by QQI. Upon enactment, the Bill will also empower QQI to establish a learner protection fund which will be resourced by an annual charge from those providers covered by it. The fund will be used to "teach out" a programme in the event that a provider fails to provide a programme. Should this not be possible, the fund will be used to reimburse students for the most recent fees that have been paid.

The Bill also contains provisions to provide QQI with additional statutory powers to examine the bona fides of a provider. Providers will have to satisfy QQI in respect of issues such as their legal personality, ownership and corporate governance arrangements in addition to ensuring that adequate financial resources are in place to ensure the viability of these businesses. This will mean that only providers that satisfy QQI in these areas will have their quality assurance procedures approved by QQI and be eligible for the international education mark and to recruit international students. These measures will militate against the prospect of further college closures.

The issue of employment rights for English teachers has also been raised in the context of the qualifications and quality assurance Bill. I understand that the Minister of State, Deputy Mitchell O'Connor, will respond to issues raised by Senators during Committee Stage of that Bill this afternoon. As in the case of any Bill going through the Houses, the Minister of State will consider any amendments and they will be subject to her decisions as they are dealt with. A number of amendments have been tabled.

Photo of Dessie EllisDessie Ellis (Dublin North West, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Minister. I am glad to hear he will meet the teachers, have a word with them and find out what their feelings are. There needs to be some form of oversight of this industry. The Bill going through the Houses will help us in this regard, but we must stop this from happening in the future. This is not the first time this has happened. In recent years, we have had several cases of colleges closing down at short notice. I am sure reputational damage must be done to our image in other countries because these cases involve overseas students. It is incumbent on us all to sort this out and prevent it from happening again. Help is needed for the teachers, whether by way of social protection or some form of compensation to tie them over the Christmas period. The Minister said there is a fund, but these issues need to be addressed over the Christmas period. Everyone knows that this is one of the worst times of the year to be caught in a situation such as this. It is a horrible thing to happen to anyone no matter when it happens, but particularly at this time of year when there are huge expectations on people who have families, friends and children to deal with.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I welcome the Minister's willingness to meet the delegation who are sitting in the Gallery. Perhaps he could indicate how we might arrange this meeting. I think they are delighted he is willing to meet them, and fair play to him. Could he tell me - or tell them - how we might arrange that this afternoon?

Beyond that, the Government needs to put its eye on this issue. Two years ago, there were 122,000 students in this sector, which is a huge number, and it is probably higher now. We are talking about an industry worth between €700 million and €1 billion. It is too big to take the attitude that this company is a private business and not an issue for the Department. I would like to see the whole sector nationalised, but if the Government will not do that, it must regulate it properly. In addition, these teachers are paid very badly, are often disgracefully laid off for the whole of Christmas in any case, even though they are taken back on in January by the same employer, receive very low levels of pay and do not get proper entitlements. It is not right for such highly qualified people to be treated this way and then to be landed in this situation. We need protections for teachers. We need to take this industry seriously and we need proper monitoring and regulation of the many fly-by-nights in the sector who are in for the quick kill and then disappear off into the night. God knows some of them will end up coming back and setting up other schools in a few years' time, having left a great many people high and dry. While things have improved slightly for the protection of pupils, we have a hell of a long way to go in taking this industry seriously and protecting the teachers.

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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Given the seriousness of this issue, I allowed the Deputies a little extra time.

Photo of Dessie EllisDessie Ellis (Dublin North West, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Acting Chairman.

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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I apologise for interrupting them, but we must stick to the guidelines.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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That is fine.

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister has two minutes to respond. Perhaps he will meet the Deputies after the debate-----

Photo of Joe McHughJoe McHugh (Donegal, Fine Gael)
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Absolutely.

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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-----or arrange to meet them.

Photo of Joe McHughJoe McHugh (Donegal, Fine Gael)
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Yes. We will work out the logistics afterwards. I thank the Deputies again. We are talking about the current human problem we have so close to Christmas and the disruption and difficulties it is causing. We are also talking about how we will prevent this from happening again. The QQI legislation is integral to this, as is the Employment (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2017. I know all Deputies of all parties and none have been working and pushing that agenda very hard. We must look at employment rights. I have been speaking to my colleague, the Minister, Deputy Regina Doherty. We will continue to ensure that the Bill passes all Stages in the Dáil. It is progressing through the Seanad. The Deputies will be aware of its key provisions, which relate to zero-hour contracts in certain circumstances and the introduction of banded-hour contracts. That second element is really important.

I have come across this issue so many times in my time in politics. In Gweedore, in my county, we had to deal with the heartbreak and difficulty of a company that went belly up on the eve of Christmas.

One of the big issues at the time was that employees wanted to find out what was available to them, how could they pay for the important stuff over Christmas and how could they get through it. They were the questions. What we did, collectively, in County Donegal on a joint Oireachtas basis, was to ensure the people with the answers, that is, representatives from the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection, were available. When we are thinking about how we are going to organise the meeting, I want to ensure the people with the answers will be there also. I will try to organise for somebody from the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection to attend the meeting. I would meet a delegation in my office, but as everybody wants to have a say, let us try to figure out some way to do it. We can have a chat about it straightaway afterwards, if the Deputies are agreeable. Across the spectrum, we have all know of recent examples of subbie busters, where people have not been getting paid and companies have gone into liquidation, etc. There is nothing more heartbreaking, difficult or disruptive to family life. I understand that and I am happy to meet the people who have come here today and not just out of courtesy. I am here as a representative of the Government to see how we can organise a pathway to deal with this problem. If it is a case of looking at long-term progression such as extra training or employment prospects in the sector, let us look at all of the options. I am happy to do so, but I would like to have the right people in the room to give the right advice, especially this close to Christmas.