Maureen O'Sullivan (Dublin Central, Independent)
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The central point of this topical issue is the human right to have access to justice and due process, which has been denied to the Craigavon two. We all understand the implications of wrongful conviction. In this case we have unsound forensic evidence as well as non-disclosure, mishandling and destruction of evidence and flawed eyewitness testimony. Mr. Brendan McConville and Mr. John Paul Wooton have been in jail for nearly ten years on the basis of that so-called evidence. We travelled to Westminster recently out of a sense of frustration at the denial of justice and due process for these two men. One can only imagine their frustration, having been in Maghaberry Prison for nearly ten years. While in Westminster, we heard an outline of the case from one of their solicitors. Reference was made to witness M, whose father signed an affidavit that his son was a fantasist and a very vulnerable person. What happened then? The father was arrested. What happened to witness M? He was looked after very well financially and the defence team was not given the opportunity to cross-examine him. It was also proven that witness M's poor eyesight could not have allowed him to make the identification.

Clare Daly (Dublin Fingal, Independent)
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I do not describe myself as a republican. I am a socialist and an internationalist. There are two men who have spent almost ten years in Maghaberry Prison. These men were known republicans and probably known dissidents and the fear of speaking out against the injustice being suffered by them is a fear of association. However, as Martin Luther King argued, it is not possible to be in favour of justice for some people and not be in favour of justice for all. The fact of the matter is that no evidence was produced against these two men. The Crown never attributed any role to either of them in the murder of PSNI officer Mr. Stephen Carroll. Myself and a number of the Deputies here attended the appeal of these men in 2013 and met Mr. Carroll's widow. We expressed our sympathy to her on her loss but that loss will not be overcome by the incarceration of people on the basis of a flawed process. This is an incredibly dangerous precedent. Mr. John Paul Wooton was only 17 years old when he was incarcerated. Mr. Brendan McConville has young children but has spent almost ten years in prison. Their case has been before the criminal case review commission for two years, which is too long. This State needs to speak out and argue for it to be dealt with forthwith.

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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Brendan McConville and John Paul Wooton were convicted of a murder under the controversial joint enterprise doctrine, which holds that a person who assists or encourages a crime can be held just as legally responsible as the perpetrator of the crime. The lack of evidence in this case is frightening. Central to the prosecution case was the evidence of a man identified only as witness M, who came forward a year after the murder of Stephen Carroll. He was drunk when he came forward. He was shortsighted but claimed that he saw the defendants from a long distance.

As Deputy O'Sullivan pointed out, his father later came forward to say no one should be in prison on the evidence of his son because he is a Walter Mitty character, who got £50,000 from The Sunand several payments from the PSNI for his efforts. This is a complete disgrace. One would struggle to find a worse case of injustice than that of the Craigavon two and one of these days it will become very obvious. In the meantime, they are having to spend many years in Maghaberry Prison, deemed last year the worst prison in Europe.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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As has been outlined by my colleagues, the case of the Craigavon two, Brendan McConville and John Paul Wootton, has been referred to the Criminal Case Review Commission and it has been there for some time. I looked up the website of the commission and part of it outlined the history of the setting up of the commission. It said: "In the 1970s there was a series of high profile cases where the convictions were later recognised as miscarriages of justice: The Guildford Four (1974); The Birmingham Six (1975); The Maguire Seven (1976) and Judith Ward (1974)." They all have the common theme that they relate to Ireland, even though this commission covers Northern Ireland, Wales and England.

The situation is that the case has been referred to the commission. It is our belief that there is substantial evidence that, in terms of proper process, this conviction should never have taken place and the appeal should have been allowed. We need the Government to press that the commission, which acts independently, and we accept that, gets on speedily with the job of reviewing this case and we would hope it would be referred back at least for a new trial.

Ciarán Cannon (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputies for the update of their meeting in Westminster yesterday. My colleague, the Tánaiste, and I are aware of the case to which the Deputies refer. Officials from within our Department, both in Dublin and in the secretariat in Belfast, monitor the case as well as other cases relating to prisoners detained in Northern Ireland.

From the outset, I would like to say that the murder of Constable Stephen Carroll was an appalling act of violence which was rightly condemned by the two Governments and by political representatives across party and community lines in Northern Ireland at the time. It was an attack on the new policing dispensation brought about by the Good Friday Agreement, it was an attack on the Police Service of Northern Ireland which has cross-community backing and serves all the people of Northern Ireland, and it was an attack aimed at discouraging young people, especially those from the nationalist community, considering a policing career.

It is imperative that we in this House continue to voice our support for the PSNI and for the young women and men from both unionist and nationalist backgrounds who join that service. It is also imperative that we, as a society, adhere to the rule of law and that we support and have confidence in the policing and justice systems. I say that without equivocation in relation to the murder of Stephen Carroll and the convictions of Brendan McConville and John Paul Wootton.

Brendan McConville and his co-accused, John Paul Wootton, were convicted of murder by joint enterprise at their trial in 2012. Their appeal against the convictions failed at the High Court in Belfast in 2014 and the Supreme Court in London later refused them permission to mount a further appeal in 2015. As the Deputies are aware, at this stage the Criminal Cases Review Commission is looking at the case. The Criminal Cases Review Commission is an independent public body which is responsible for reviewing possible miscarriages of justice in England, Wales and Northern Ireland. Darragh Mackin, solicitor for Brendan McConville, spoke about his "real serious concerns as to the safety of the conviction" and that he believes " there are a number of issues that remain effectively unaddressed".

It is entirely appropriate and correct that these men are now pursuing this channel in the present circumstances. As I understand it, the solicitors of Brendan McConville have had significant engagement with the Criminal Cases Review Commission and have provided it with a substantial amount of evidence relating to the case. At this stage in proceedings, it would not be appropriate for me to comment any further. It is important that we respect the legal process and that we allow time for that to conclude.

That is not to say, however, that we should be unquestioning with regard to the judicial system. Officials from my Department who are based in Belfast regularly engage with the Northern Ireland Department of Justice, the Northern Ireland Office, the Northern Ireland Prison Service, the Criminal Justice Inspectorate, and the police and prisoner ombudsmen.

In addition, at the recent British-Irish Intergovernmental Conference, both the Tánaiste and the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Flanagan, engaged with David Lidington and the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland on matters related to security co-operation. In these discussions and engagements, the two Governments are able to discuss matters of mutual interest or concern.

Officials will continue to monitor developments in this particular case. In the absence of a devolved Assembly, it is regrettable that we do not have a locally elected and accountable justice minister with whom we can engage on matters such as this, but we will continue efforts in this regard.

Maureen O'Sullivan (Dublin Central, Independent)
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Two people in prison based on conjecture, circumstantial evidence, contradictory evidence and inconsistencies is not justice for the very regrettable murder of Stephen Carroll. This is all part of a bigger, unjust system in the North, with revocation of licences, evidence being withheld, legal teams not being able to defend their clients when they do not know what the evidence is. We have a parole commission hearing, which is incredible in a so-called democracy. I want to believe in a fair justice system but I do not see it at the moment when I look at all of those examples in Northern Ireland.

Clare Daly (Dublin Fingal, Independent)
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These men were given, respectively, sentences of 25 and 18 years on the basis of no evidence being produced of any role attributed directly to them in the appalling murder of Stephen Carroll. The key point here is that many jurisdictions have proven there can be "No justice, no peace", to use the slogan of the ANC. It is the same here. This is an injustice that needs to be examined. It was a political decision because it was the first killing of a PSNI officer and any old republican would do. Sadly, the evidence and process do not back up the conviction. Anybody who believes in the rule of law has to oppose this judgment and call for an immediate review of the case.

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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The defence team could not cross-examine witness M. If that happened down here, we would be shouting from the rooftops about it. PSNI Constable Stephen Carroll was murdered and we entirely condemn those who did it, but it is no justice for that family that the wrong people could be in jail for it.

It was highlighted at the Commons committee that Amnesty International has not got involved in this case, which we are a bit concerned about, and I would remind Amnesty International of the saying of Malcolm X:

I am for truth, no matter who tells it. I am for justice, no matter who it is for or against.

I suggest Amnesty International takes that on board.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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I think society now accepts that the convictions of the Guildford Four, Birmingham Six, Maguire Seven and Judith Ward were incorrect. That does not mean that the atrocities did not take place. It means that the convictions were not correct.

As the Minister of State said, the solicitor for Brendan McConville and the solicitor for John Paul Wootton have said they have real concerns for the safety of the conviction. That is what we are concerned about. Convictions can only happen in accordance with law and, if we want people to have confidence in the rule of law, we have to have people who believe there is justice before the law for all in an equal way. As I pointed out, it is interesting that this commission was set up primarily because of concern about Irish cases. Therefore, what we are looking for is not to influence the commission, but that it would deal with this matter expeditiously.

Ciarán Cannon (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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I fully understand the level of concern expressed by all of the Deputies about this issue. It is an emotive issue. On the one hand, we have the Carroll family grieving the loss of their husband and father and we also have the Wootton and McConville families who have concerns about the processes by which these convictions were made. The only way to ensure these concerns are considered and addressed is to follow the judicial process to its conclusion. Officials in my Department will continue to monitor developments in this case, ensure that the Government remains informed about the developments and, in that context, we will continue our work in supporting the peace process in Northern Ireland to ensure there are no more families grieving for the loss of their loved ones, no matter the context of that loss.