Dáil debates

Wednesday, 7 November 2018

Criminal Justice (Money Laundering and Terrorist Financing) (Amendment) Bill 2018: From the Seanad

 

The Dáil went into Committee to consider amendments from the Seanad.

Seanad amendment No. 1:

4:45 pm

Photo of Charles FlanaganCharles Flanagan (Laois, Fine Gael)
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I am pleased to report these final amendments to the House. I know from debates on earlier Stages that there is general support for this legislation and a common desire that we enact matters efficiently so that we can fulfil our international EU obligations. There are a small number of amendments, mainly of a technical nature, with other more substantive amendments that we can get through.

Amendment No. 1 relates to the requirement for a designated person to monitor customers with whom they have a business relationship. The words to be inserted are to make it clear that this monitoring is to be done only to the extent that it is warranted by the risk in a particular case of money laundering or terrorist financing. It is in line with the EU directive, which mandates "a risk-based approach" to due diligence with regard to relations with customers.

Seanad amendment agreed to.

Seanad amendment No. 2:

Photo of Charles FlanaganCharles Flanagan (Laois, Fine Gael)
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This measure relates to customer due diligence measures for persons who can be described as politically exposed persons. In general, these measures must be carried out before a person opens an account. However, a bank can allow an account to be opened without first carrying out the measures as long as no transactions are carried out on the account, so an account is open and there are no dealings in it. The amendment extends that exception to all financial institutions and it is in accordance with the reading of the directive.

Seanad amendment agreed to.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Amendments Nos. 3 and 4 are related and may be discussed together.

Seanad amendment No. 3:

Photo of Charles FlanaganCharles Flanagan (Laois, Fine Gael)
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These are technical amendments, which relate to the conditions under which a designated person can rely on a third party to carry out anti-money laundering measures on his or her behalf. There is currently a requirement that the person be satisfied that the third party will provide him or her with appropriate documentation and relevant information. These amendments clarify that it is not necessary if certain circumstances apply, including that the person and third party are part of the same group. I point Deputies to Article 28 of the directive, with which the proposal is in accord.

Seanad amendment agreed to.

Seanad amendment No. 4:

Seanad amendment agreed to.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Amendments Nos. 5 and 12 are related and may be taken together.

Seanad amendment No. 5:

Photo of Charles FlanaganCharles Flanagan (Laois, Fine Gael)
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The purpose of these amendments is to remove a requirement to report to An Garda Síochána and the Revenue Commissioners all transactions relating to what is known as a "high-risk third country". A high-risk third country is one which is not considered to have adequate controls for money laundering. The requirement is considered to be unnecessarily broad when combined with the European Commission's new designations of states as high risk. The view here is that this would be unduly burdensome for An Garda Síochána and the business entities involved. We discussed this at an earlier stage of proceedings but, since the Bill was published and having regard to discussions that took place both within the House and outside, I think the amendment is considered desirable. There is already something of a requirement to report any transaction that is suspicious. This is a general requirement. In that regard, almost 25,000 reports were received by An Garda Síochána under this requirement last year. The Bill also contains an obligation to apply due diligence of an enhanced nature with regard to customers from high-risk third countries. I would not like Deputies to think that we were in any way diluting or weakening the legislation and have proposed the amendment for that reason.

Seanad amendment agreed to.

Seanad amendment No. 6:

Photo of Charles FlanaganCharles Flanagan (Laois, Fine Gael)
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Amendment No. 6 relates to the power of An Garda Síochána to direct that documents and records are kept beyond the normal period of five years. This inserts a safeguard that the direction must be given in writing.

Seanad amendment agreed to.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Amendments Nos. 7, 8 and 11 are related and may be considered together.

Seanad amendment No. 7:

Photo of Charles FlanaganCharles Flanagan (Laois, Fine Gael)
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These amendments transpose part of Article 47, paragraph 2, of the fourth directive. That requires that managers as well beneficial providers of gambling services are persons who are regarded as fit or proper persons. Amendment No. 11 inserts five new sections, requiring anybody who is a person directing a private members' gambling club or who is a beneficial owner of such a club must hold certificate of fitness and, if they do not, it will be an offence for any person to engage in activities or business without holding it. The rest of the provisions set out the procedure that will be in place to apply for this certificate of fitness. The application will be made to An Garda Síochána. If the person does not live within the State, it is made to the Minister. A certificate may be refused if a person has been convicted of certain offences. The certificate will last for three years. There is a provision for an appeal to the District Court in respect of a refusal to grant a certificate.

Amendments Nos. 7 and 8 are consequential amendments to the numbering of a different section. The House will be aware of the wider work on gambling that the Government is undertaking. We have approved the setting up of an independent gambling regulator. My colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy Stanton, has chaired a working group on reforms in this area which has recently completed its work. While those broader proposals are being developed, the provisions here now will allow us to ensure that persons involved in this sector are persons who can be regarded as fit, proper and appropriate. We do that in respect of our national legislation and so that our EU obligations are complied with and met.

Photo of Anne RabbitteAnne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I want to speak to the last portion of the Bill that the Minister spoke about introducing relating to the certificate of fitness. I am homing in on the Gaming and Lotteries Act 1956. Fianna Fáil brought forward a Gambling Control Bill and I feel this is diluting it. Listening to the Minister's statement, I understand what he is saying. At what stage are he and the Minister of State, Deputy Stanton, in setting up the independent regulator? I would like to hear reassurances about where we are with the setting up of the independent regulator. Why exactly would the Minister have picked out cards clubs as opposed to looking at this in its entirety?

Photo of Aengus Ó SnodaighAengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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I welcome amendment No. 11 in particular. We will support it. We have raised this issue at various stages. As the Minister said in his contribution, there are wider issues of regulation of betting, gambling industries and gambling control, but they are for another day. I acknowledge the progress that the Minister of State, Deputy Stanton, has made but I do not believe the Department has made sufficient progress on this issue. Will the Minister explain exactly when the future gambling control Bill is due before the House? I welcome the amendment because it is a step in the right direction. I hope we can build on it and see further regulation with regard to what is required to counter the use of gambling in private members' clubs and gambling activities to launder money. Why does the measure not include, for instance, bookmakers? This issue has been raised with us and we have raised it before.

I would have thought that was an obvious avenue where the practices this Bill is seeking to quell occurs. We have seen it in some court cases in the past. I also add a health warning to the effect that we could probably have done more and better as regards this issue and we will need to look again at it in the future. The Minister of State, Deputy Stanton, said in the Seanad a few weeks ago that what I am raising is covered by various betting Acts. However, this was raised as a serious issue in the debates on the ever-promised gambling control Bill, which supposedly has been coming in for the past six years but we have not seen it yet. Has gambling been left on the back-burner? I hope that is not the case and that the Minister will be able to indicate exactly when we will get to grips with an issue that has been raised here in the House. That will not take away from the specifics the Minister is trying to achieve in the legislation today, but hopefully it will add to it.

4:55 pm

Photo of Charles FlanaganCharles Flanagan (Laois, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Rabbitte because if I correctly interpret her contribution it is one of forbearance towards the Government in respect of the gambling issue. I accept that with the grace with which it was offered. I acknowledge her contribution towards that and her interest in it. I am very keen that we can progress matters here. I assure her that every effort is being made in my Department, in particular under the stewardship of the Minister of State, Deputy Stanton, in order that we can meet specific targets. I understand Deputy Rabbitte's frustration and that of a number of Deputies who have been consistent in their interest in this issue and in their cause that matters would be updated. I accept everything that has been said but I would ask that at this point my bona fides would be accepted.

On the matter of the gaming and lotteries (amendment) Bill, work is ongoing between my officials and the Office of the Attorney General. It is envisaged that the Bill will be ready for publication late this year or very early next year. It has been included on the priority list for publication for autumn 2018. We have seven weeks left and we will keep in communication with the Deputy but I would be very disappointed if we do not have the Bill ready for publication within the timeframe envisaged. I will not go into detail but I will respond to some of the questions asked. The Bill will standardise at 18 the age limit for gambling and gaming. The age limit for the tote will now be set at 18. There will be a streamlining of applications for permits and licences. We hope to be in a position to move on to the publication of the Bill very shortly.

In response to Deputy Ó Snodaigh's question, it seems that bookmakers are already in compliance with the measures I am introducing here in respect of the money laundering directive. The amendments are similar to those which already exist in respect of bookmakers. Deputy Rabbitte asked why we are singling out private members' clubs and the reason for that is it is a requirement of the EU directive. It is an interim measure pending fuller regulation.

I acknowledge the support and work of Deputy Rabbitte and others in the House on the gambling regulation Bill. It has been helpful and it has not gone unnoticed by the Government. In January the Government approved the drafting of the general scheme to update the 2013 general scheme. The working group is chaired by the Minister of State, Deputy Stanton, and it is the group's intention that it would report directly to the Government prior to Christmas. Given the complexity of the gambling regulation Bill, which Deputy Rabbitte knows as well as anyone, it will take up to 12 months to draft the Bill. We will continue to work closely with the Office of the Attorney General. I would be very happy to keep Deputy Rabbitte and any other Deputies who are specialists in the area fully informed. I thank them for their work and interest in this issue.

Seanad amendment agreed to.

Seanad amendment No. 8: Section 34:In page 36, line 1, to delete “109A.(1) Subject” and substitute “108A.(1) Subject”.

Seanad amendment agreed to.

Seanad amendment No. 9: Section 34: In page 36, line 28, after “of” where it firstly occurs to insert “paragraph (a) of”.

Seanad amendment agreed to.

Seanad amendment No. 10: Section 34: In page 36, line 29, to delete “section 24(1)(a)” and substitute “section 24(1)”.

Seanad amendment agreed to.

Seanad amendment No. 11: New Section: In page 37, between lines 17 and 18, to insert the following: “Managers and beneficial owners of private members’ clubs - certificates of fitness 35.The Act of 2010 is amended by the insertion of the following sections after section 109:

Seanad amendment agreed to.

Seanad amendment No. 12: Section 39: In page 42, line 16, after “36” to insert “, 43”.

Seanad amendment agreed to.

Seanad amendments reported.