Marc MacSharry (Sligo-Leitrim, Fianna Fail)
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I know that events earlier today have determined that the Minister of State, Deputy Kyne, is here to take this matter. For the record, his area is natural resources, community affairs and digital development. Is that correct?

Seán Kyne (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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Yes.

Marc MacSharry (Sligo-Leitrim, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister of State for coming along. The decision to close 159 post offices was taken without consultation with this House, the people's representatives, the Seanad or even county councils throughout the country. A private trade union, the Irish Postmasters Union, IPU, and An Post, a commercial semi-State company, designed a process for the closure of post offices nationwide without any consultation with the people's representatives. I was critical of the then Minister, Deputy Naughten, and the Government generally for allowing this to take place. It is a bad precedent. The IPU did a splendid job on behalf of its members in negotiating a retirement package and it is entitled to do that. An Post is entitled to balance the books because it has a commercial mandate. However, neither of those entities speaks for communities. Neither has the authority to decide what services communities need or aspire to. That is our job, a job that the Minister of State's Government has abdicated.

The Government set up a flawed process whereby it sought to close post offices on the back of a retirement package. While people are quite entitled to apply for the package, and that is fine, a flawed process was applied subsequently. A conurbation with a population of 500 people or more was to have a post office within a radius of 15 km. The bodies I have named determined that themselves. On we went and 159 closures followed. In particular I refer to Cliffoney, Gorteen and Ballinfull, County Sligo. Cliffoney was given a reprieve, even though it falls below the criteria, because common sense prevailed and An Post realised it is a thriving and growing village with a substantial number of people living in it. We did not see that in the cases of Ballinfull or Gorteen.

Here is the most troubling aspect of this. In August, An Post informed people in Ballinfull, to take one example, that they could make submissions for a review up to and including 28 September. They did so. The submission was put together very professionally and ran to 51 pages. It was posted on 27 September. It arrived with An Post on 28 September. Saturday and Sunday passed and, most peculiarly, on the Monday morning they got an email to say they had been unsuccessful. What is more, the decision was taken on 24 September, three days before they had sent their submission and four days before it arrived at An Post. Even it if was considered over the course of the weekend, there is no question that any time was spent on a submission of that nature.

As is outlined in that submission, if anyone would only read it, 21 townlands with a total population of 1,036 are serviced by the Ballinfull post office. It is all laid out in detail, but no one in An Post or in any independent review had any interest in that. Gorteen on the other hand has 512 inhabitants. It is a small town rather than a village, yet its post office is to be closed. The process was rigged from the beginning. As to the independent reviewer, he was only allowed to adjudicate against the criteria set by the IPU, a trade union, and An Post itself.

As we have been shown by the decision on Ballinfull, taken three days before the submission even arrived, the Government is standing over a Mickey Mouse superficial process. It is sending communities to go out and act like fools, myself among them. They put together well-thought-out submissions with the facts on population and a community's commitment to its post office, and it does not matter. The recipients do not care. The IPU and An Post run the country. They decide who is going to get services. We have made fools of communities throughout the country. In the Ballinfull case I can show written proof that the community was disrespected to the degree that the decision was taken well before they even sent in their submission. That is an insult in the extreme. I look forward to hearing the Minister of State's response.

Seán Kyne (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy MacSharry for raising this Topical Issue matter. I address it on behalf of the Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment. I thank postmasters throughout the country for the dedicated service they have given to rural and urban communities over many years. As Members are aware, some postmasters have taken the difficult decision to leave the business in recent weeks. I understand the concerns of older people in the communities and that this is an anxious time for many of them. We have all watched the gradual demise of the post office network over many years. More than 500 post offices closed during the economic boom in this country between 2002 and 2007 while no action was taken and the post office network was allowed to fall into decline. No new investment or services were put into it. The Government did not want that to continue.

The postmasters in this country and the communities they serve deserve a clear future and for a plan to be put in place for the development of and investment in the post office network and its services. We have set out a clear path and future for the post office network. Almost two years ago, the then Minister, Deputy Denis Naughten, was presented with a future for An Post and the post office network that was uncertain and very bleak. There was a very real possibility that the company would go under. The potential for a complete shutdown of postal services with the loss of thousands of jobs was undeniable. Immediate action was needed to ensure the survival of An Post and the post office network. That was necessary to protect the jobs of the 9,000 people working in An Post throughout the country.

Two years later, critically important decisions have been made. An Post has been stabilised because of the actions that have been taken. The company is changing from a 19th century model to one that has relevance and can have resonance in rural and urban areas in the 21st century. While the future is not as bleak for An Post, the underlying challenges remain. Mail volumes continue to decline. E-substitution and the move to online payments and online banking continue to have an impact on the post office network. There is widespread acceptance that the post office network requires modernisation to build, maintain and protect the service that meets the needs of communities throughout the country. An Post's renewed vision for the post office network centres on the availability of new services in a modernised and revitalised network. These services must include a better range of Government, financial and e-commerce services for shoppers and small business.

Since taking office, the former Minister, Deputy Naughten, drove the offline avenue with his officials, Cabinet colleagues, the management team in An Post, the Office of Government Procurement and other agencies. Government approval was recently given to examination of an offline avenue for all Government online services. This work has started, and Deputy Naughten's successor will update the Government on progress before the end of the year.

Investment of €50 million in the network, equivalent to €45,000 per post office, is based on getting communities to use the enhanced services that their local post office will provide through a modernised network. These measures are meaningless unless the public use the services the post office provides. Key to the survival of the network is the willingness of all of us to use it.

Essential to delivering on the renewed vision for the post office network is the agreement reached with the Irish Postmasters Union, IPU. In their negotiations with An Post, postmasters and postmistresses sought the modernisation of the network and a voluntary redundancy package for those who wanted to leave the business. It is important that the decision of those who wish to leave the business is respected. The decision on whether to accept the package was one for individual postmasters.

An independent appeals process has been put in place to enable communities to have a decision relating to their local office reviewed. This is part of a protocol that the then Minister, Deputy Naughten, specifically sought. In addition, any retailer in the locations of the 159 post offices can apply to An Post to be considered to take over some or all of the services of the closing post office. If a retailer looks to avail of services, and if An Post decides, for one reason or another, not to provide them, that decision can be also submitted for review through the independent process. An Post has confirmed that it has extended the deadline for receipt of appeals under this process to Wednesday, 31 October.

I understand the Deputy has raised concerns about the outcome of a specific appeal. It is important to point out that the review process is independent and neither the Minister nor his officials have a role in it. It would, therefore, not be appropriate for me to comment on individual cases. I understand, however, that the former Minister, Deputy Naughten, raised the matter with An Post and was assured that the contents of the detailed appeal referred to by the Deputy were taken into account before the final determination issued. I will ask officials in the Department to take on board the information the Deputy has provided if it is in addition to what they were previously led to believe.

It is widely accepted that the post office network has been facing many challenges for some years, with a continuing decline in transaction numbers, primarily driven by the move to online payments and online banking as well as e-substitution. Standing still is not an option for the network. After years of drift, there is now a clear direction for An Post and the post office network.

Marc MacSharry (Sligo-Leitrim, Fianna Fail)
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I know the reply was prepared by somebody else but, quite frankly, it was shocking. It is a rigged process. The independent appeals process is totally rigged. An Post privately came up with the 500 people and 15 km criteria. I have proved to the Minister of State that Ballinfull was not remotely looked at. In fact, An Post's first response on Ocean FM, given by one of its senior representatives, was that it was a typo in the letter. An Post has come back a little from this and now states it considered everything. It did not. Ballinfull was thrown under the bus and there are 1,000 people there. An Post also will not clarify how it calculates population for a substantially rural area. Ballinfull is not a village. The post office served 21 townlands with more than 1,000 people. Gurteen is a substantial village, it is a small town really, but we are not listening to the people there either. This decision was taken by the IPU, a trade union, and An Post.

We know An Post has a commercial mandate. It has to be subvented. Every year, the 8,700 rural post offices in the UK receive a subvention of £130 million. The amount here would be only €10 million. We are talking about a very small amount of money. It is not about cost, it is about realising there is value to rural Ireland. We have a culture whereby people live in rural Ireland. The Varadkar vision for rural Ireland needs to be more than milking it for every photocall it is worth and then shutting it down. In practice, this is what is happening. We had the shameful launch of Ireland 2040 in Sligo. The Government must think the people are stupid. It sent people off to work for six weeks on putting together a detailed report, as Ballinfull and Gurteen post offices did. We have proved that Ballinfull post office was not even considered because the response was out on a Monday morning and, according to the date, the decision had been taken the previous Monday. Gurteen and other places throughout the country can reasonably assume they were going through a superficial process because the decision had been already made by somebody else.

The former Minister, Deputy Naughten, is gone but the rest of the Government is responsible now. What will they do about it? Two weeks ago, a motion was passed democratically in the House to preserve the 159 post offices and provide a subvention. What has happened to it? It probably got thrown into a room along with all of the other motions we pass in here because the Government tends to ignore the will of Parliament while stating an issue is a matter for An Post, the HSE or somebody else but not it.

The Minister of State mentioned earlier about previous Governments allowing post offices to close. He is right. They got their answer in 2011. They were nearly wiped out. Since then, we at least have been trying to learn from those lessons. What is clear from the response of the Minister of State today is the Government has not.

Seán Kyne (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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That is the first time I heard it was the closure of the post offices that almost wiped out Fianna Fáil in 2011. It is an interesting twist on the history.

Marc MacSharry (Sligo-Leitrim, Fianna Fail)
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It was in the speech of the Minister of State.

Seán Kyne (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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It is Government policy that An Post remains a strong viable company in a position to provide a high-quality nationwide postal service and that it maintains a nationwide customer-focused network of post offices in the community. The Government remains fully committed to a sustainable post office network which is a key piece of economic and social infrastructure for rural and urban areas.

The postmasters of this country and the communities they serve deserve a clear future and a plan to be put in place for the development of, and investment into, the post office network and its services. Such action was not taken by a series of Governments over many decades. We have now set out a clear path and future for the post office network. The decision on whether to accept the voluntary redundancy package was one for individual postmasters, and it is important those decisions are respected. Where a post office closes it is important to note that 70% of the business transfers to a neighbouring office. The reality is that by facilitating those who wish to exit the business neighbouring offices will be further supported, thereby ensuring a sustainable network for the future.

Innovation and change are being embraced and new services to meet new needs for the future are being developed. Politically, our responsibility is to lead that change, to strengthen An Post as a public company delivering a public service and to support the decisions required to translate that aspiration into effective action. The post offices being closed are ensuring the viability of the remaining post offices. The Deputy and others have commented that they should all be subvented now to prevent their closure but we must ask whether we should subvent all of the other post offices that closed, for example, in Sligo and Leitrim. In Sligo, there were two in 2005, one in 2006, another in 2007, two in 2008, one in 2009 and four in 2010. In Leitrim there was one in 2005, three in 2006, two in 2007, two in 2008, one in 2009 and two in 2010. Should we reopen all of these and put at risk the viability of all remaining post offices?

I will raise with my officials the issues raised by the Deputy in this specific case, and if something has gone astray we will ask officials to look at it.