Noel Grealish (Galway West, Independent)
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46. To ask the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence the status of the actions taken by his Department to address concerns raised by the University of Limerick study, entitled Workplace Climate in the Defence Forces, specifically those related to pay and conditions and the retention of personnel in the Army, Air Corps and Naval Service, and if he will make a statement on the matter. [40265/18]

Noel Grealish (Galway West, Independent)
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Three years ago, the Minister of State received the University of Limerick climate survey of the Defence Forces. Both the qualitative and quantitative surveys showed an organisation heading towards a crisis. A total of 55% of respondents felt their pay did not reflect the work they did, 38% felt the pay was inadequate, and 23% wanted to look elsewhere for employment. I understand that while the Defence Forces has an establishment of 9,500 members, this has fallen to 8,800. This indicates a serious crisis in retention across all services. Given the serious nature of this crisis, what steps have the Minister of State and his Department taken to address these concerns, particularly the retention of personnel in the army, Air Corps and Naval Service?

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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The Defence Forces climate survey was commissioned on foot of a recommendation contained in the third report of the independent monitoring group which was established to oversee the implementation of recommendations relating to harassment, bullying, discrimination and sexual harassment within the Defence Forces. Follow-up work to the initial findings in the survey was conducted by University of Limerick researchers via use of focus groups. The resulting report, which was published in July 2017, further explored the issues raised in the original survey. The comments quoted therein cover a wide range of issues relating to human resources management. These include pay and conditions, vacancies, recruitment and retention, promotion systems, performance management, leadership, culture, morale, stress and work-life balance. The report pre-dated the significant improvements in pay that have taken place in the intervening period.

Members of the Permanent Defence Force have received the pay increases due under the Lansdowne Road agreement. In addition, in 2017, following negotiations with PDFORRA, improved pay scales for general service recruits and privates who joined the Permanent Defence Force post 1 January 2013 were implemented. The Public Service Stability Agreement 2018 to 2020 provides for further increases in pay ranging from 6.2% to 7.4% over the lifetime of the agreement. The first increase, due from 1 January 2018, has been paid to Permanent Defence Force personnel and a second increase is due to be applied from 1 October 2018. Further increases in pay are scheduled for 2019 and 2020. New entrants to the Defence Forces will also benefit from the measures that were recently announced relating to amendments to the pay scales for new entrant public servants recruited since January 2011. By the end of the current public service pay agreement, the pay of all public servants, including members of the Defence Forces, earning under €70,000 per annum will be restored to pre-financial emergency measures in the public interest, FEMPI, levels. The restoration of the 5% reduction to allowances cut under FEMPI is also scheduled in the agreement.

Additional information not given on the floor of the House

As well as pay, other issues highlighted in the survey are being addressed. Many of these are provided for in the White Paper on defence and are being progressed accordingly. A number of initiatives, including a review of the criteria governing contracts of enlisted personnel and a comprehensive skills gap analysis across the Defence Forces, are being given an increased priority. I also commissioned a review of the conciliation and arbitration scheme and I have received the report from Gerard Barry who undertook the review. I am considering the findings and recommendations.

There is ongoing recruitment to the Defence Forces and a range of initiatives are being developed, including commissioning from the ranks, criteria for the re-entry of former Permanent Defence Force personnel with specific skills, and consideration of increased use of direct entry for specialist posts. The Public Service Pay Commission is also examining recruitment and retention issues as part of its work.

With regard to other issues relating to human resource management highlighted in the climate survey, there are extensive support systems in place for members of the Defence Forces. The personnel support service is available to provide information, assistance and counselling on a range of matters, including interpersonal problems and stress. I am satisfied that the measures outlined are serving to address the issues raised in the Defence Forces climate survey.

Noel Grealish (Galway West, Independent)
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I believe the fundamental problem is that the Chief of Staff, Vice Admiral Mark Mellett, is not the Accounting Officer for the Defence Forces. He does not oversee the budget for the recruitment and, especially, retention of critical specialised members of the Defence Forces. The Accounting Officer responsible for the budget and expenditure of the Defence Forces, including recruitment and retention, is the Secretary General of the Department of Defence, Maurice Quinn, along with his assistant secretary, Robert Mooney. Mr. Mooney has day-to-day responsibility for strategic HR in the Defence Forces, a newly authorised appointment. He was promoted in 2017. Mr. Quinn and Mr. Mooney have not delivered for the Defence Forces.

Why are the Defence Forces different from An Garda Síochána where the Garda Commissioner is the Accounting Officer? The Defence Forces Chief of Staff, Mark Mellett, cannot spend without referring back to the Department and seeking approval. Surely the Chief of Staff of the Defence Forces is best placed to understand the needs of his force. We cannot have a two-tier security service where the gardaí have better pay and conditions. It was reported in The Irish Timesyesterday that retired Brigadier General Ger Aherne described the relationship between the Defence Forces and the Department as "toxic, broken, dysfunctional and dangerous". This is the reality and any of the Minister of State's words today cannot hide this fact. What is the Government doing to rectify this?

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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The Defence Forces have full control over recruitment. No civilian is involved in this. It is solely the responsibility of the Defence Forces headed by military management and the Chief of Staff who has his own people in that recruitment office. The Deputy raised a wide range of issues. I have outlined the process we are using under the public service stability programme between now and 2020. It involves pay restoration. Anyone earning under €70,000 will have their full pay restored by 2020. There has been a joint civilian and military submission to the independent pay commission. I will provide the commission with the space to do its work. I look forward to the outcome of that. I have written to PDFORRA this week asking it to come in and negotiate outstanding adjudications.

Noel Grealish (Galway West, Independent)
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I acknowledge what the Minister of State said, which is that the Chief of Staff has full control over recruitment, but I am sure his hands are tied by officials within the Department who set out the terms and conditions under which he can recruit officers. I marched with the retired soldiers and their wives and families. I listened to "Morning Ireland" yesterday and heard the young wife of a soldier say that he comes home with €400 per week. This man has three young children.

Every time there are questions to the Minister of State with responsibility for defence matters they are about the conditions of soldiers. Why is that? We are all proud of them and the duties they perform at home and abroad. Every year we discuss the pay and conditions of military personnel, but we never do so in the case of members of An Garda Síochána, for which the Garda Commissioner is now the Accounting Officer. They both practically do the same work in providing security for the State. It is time the pay and conditions of members of the Defence Forces were brought up to those of members of An Garda Síochána. Will the Minister of State give a commitment that he will try to achieve this sooner rather than later?

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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The Garda Commissioner does not set pay levels for members of An Garda Síochána.

Noel Grealish (Galway West, Independent)
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He has control of its budget.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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That does not matter because he still does not set pay levels for members of An Garda Síochána. The minimum wage level of a member of the Defence Forces is €27,000. That trained young private could be 22 or 23 years old and have one child, two children or none at all. That is the way it is, but there is support available in the form of the working family payment, if required.

Noel Grealish (Galway West, Independent)
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They do require it.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy knows how the working family payment scheme works. I do not have to explain it to him.

Noel Grealish (Galway West, Independent)
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I do know.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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He has to accept this. The payment is made in certain circumstances and supports families, if needed and required. That is why it is available. I am doing my best in advocating on behalf of the Defence Forces and have stated I live up to my responsibilities. I listen to the representative associations, be it the Permanent Defence Force Other Ranks Representative Association, PDFORRA, or the Representative Association of Commissioned Officers, RACO, and soldiers. Recruitment is a matter for the Defence Forces, not the Secretary General of the Department. It is the full responsibility of the Defence Forces.