Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
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44. To ask the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine the way in which basic payments to farmers will be affected under the new CAP arrangements in view of the fact so many farmers are working off-farm in order to sustain their livelihood. [23721/18]

Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
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This question refers to something we have heard talked about on many occasions recently, namely, the issue of farmers having to be full-time farmers, or at least to get the majority of their income from farming. On many small holdings on marginal land, it is very difficult for people to make a living. The reality is at least one person, if not two people, in the household have to work off-farm in order to be able to do that, and this is particularly so in areas of natural constraint, where it is more difficult to make a living. I question whether there is a trend coming in the new CAP arrangement towards some restrictions in this regard, which would be very worrying for the majority of farmers who find themselves in that category.

Michael Creed (Cork North West, Fine Gael)
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The CAP regulations are expected to be published by Commissioner Hogan shortly. Until the formal proposals are received, it is difficult to make any assessment regarding their effects. While I am aware of leaked drafts, I will not be commenting until my Department has had an opportunity to examine the published draft guidelines. It is also important to note that, following publication, the draft regulations will be the subject of detailed negotiations before final agreement. During these negotiations, I will continue to work with other member states to ensure that the measures proposed deliver greater added value for the Irish farming and rural community and for all European citizens.

Direct payments are a vital part of farm incomes, especially in the dry stock sector. I will continue to seek an EU budget with a robust CAP programme to include necessary support for direct payments. Proposals already published on the multi-annual financial framework provide some insight into Commission thinking, with references to capping and targeting of direct payments included. I have already indicated that I am supportive of efforts to better target direct payments and I look forward to examining the detailed proposals as they emerge.

On the question of farmers with off-farm income, this has been a significant feature of Irish rural communities for many years and will continue to be in the future. I intend to ensure that such farmers will continue to be supported under any future Common Agricultural Policy. We can also reasonably expect that the Commission proposals will involve a higher level of environmental ambition for the farm sector. We simply have to use the tools at our disposal to address climate change and other environmental imperatives, but, of course, it is also critically important to protect incomes in our vulnerable sectors.

I am currently engaged in a round of meetings with EU counterparts regarding the expected proposals on CAP and the published proposals on the multi-annual financial framework. Equally, my Department will continue to engage with its interlocutors in this regard. I can assure the Deputy that I will continue to seek a strong EU budget for CAP and a regulatory framework that protects Irish farm incomes.

Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
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I welcome the clarification. I understand it is only a draft that will be seen and that there are negotiations involved. However, we would welcome reassurance from the Minister and his Department that, in those negotiations, everything will be done to ensure that no definition of farmer is introduced which would mean many in the farming community who are on marginal land, and have to depend on off-farm income, would in some way be punished for that. The reality is that small farmers, certainly in the west and on hilly ground, cannot survive on farm income alone and very often have to have off-farm income. This is one of the things that is leading in many cases to the abandonment of the uplands, where we see farmers abandoning the land and taking other options, such as forestry or just selling the land and getting rid of it. The truth is it is bad for our community and for the whole farming sector if it goes in that direction. Every effort needs to be made in the negotiations to ensure the definition of what a farmer is, and what farming is, is that the land is being farmed. It should be based on the full utilisation of the land, which is being used to the best of its capacity and where farmers are doing their best to take as much income as possible from it, and if farmers require further income off-farm they will not be punished for that.

Michael Creed (Cork North West, Fine Gael)
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I am aware of this issue in my constituency and that it is a national issue. The question of the definition of "genuine farmers" and "active farmers" always crops up. I wish to reassure farmers who lack the capacity to generate a sufficient income from their holdings. We have recently seen the publication of figures for farm incomes which point to two Irelands. I refer, in particular, to the figures for the livestock and sheep sectors that are really challenged in terms of their lack of capacity. Like any of my predecessors and I assume any sane occupant of this office in the future, I will be motivated only by the best of intentions when it comes to dealing with that reality. I aim to ensure those farmers who are as genuine as any other farmer and as active as any other farmer, given the constraints on their holdings, will continue to be the focus of supports under the Common Agricultural Policy. They may not be able to generate a high income owing to those constraints, but they perform a host of other valuable services in the protection of the environment. They are really important players. They are both active and genuine. The fact that owing to economic necessity they may have to have an off-farm income does not in any way put them beyond supports under the Common Agricultural Policy, nor should it in the future.

Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
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The difficulty is we often hear about armchair farmers and individuals who do not engage in farming, yet receive all of the subsidies. Sometimes there is a view that to try to ensure this will not continue, we have to delineate certain categories. I fear that, with the tiny minority in that category, there is a larger group who would be affected in a negative way. I welcome the Minister's commitment to ensuring this will not happen and I am satisfied that the small family farm will be at the centre of future negotiations on the Common Agricultural Policy. The Minister mentioned sheep and cattle farming and how income levels in these sectors were so low. That is the reality for so many farmers who do the best with what they have got, yet they cannot make a proper income from it, but that is not to say they are not productive. They are highly productive for the type of land they use.

The Minister mentioned greening and the environmental impact. Yesterday evening at the committee we heard from representatives from UCD. One of the questions I forgot to ask them was about research into the level of carbon sequestration on low-impact grassland, on large areas of which farmers have very low stocking rates. That is something we have not taken into account. It is one of the good things those farmers are providing.

Michael Creed (Cork North West, Fine Gael)
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We share the same objectives. What we have to guard against are the unintended consequences. Yes, at a high level people will talk about "armchair farmers", those who gather income under the Common Agricultural Policy and who may not be considered active by other farmers. I am anxious to ensure the category about whom the Deputy spoke, those with small and marginal holdings from which because of the constraints of them they are not able to make an income, will continue to be supported. They are both active and genuine.

There is another debate taking place at a different level about those who receive extraordinarily high payments and whether they constitute genuine or active farmers. There are proposals related to capping, which I think is good in principle. There are about 1,000 farmers in the country who receive a payment of more than €60,000. When that money is redistributed between 130,000 farmers, the gain is minimal. Nonetheless, the Deputy should be reassured that we share the same ambition for those farmers who are both active and genuine.