Pat Deering (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Ceann Comhairle's office for selecting this issue. I recognise the fact considerable progress has been made on the Garda vetting issue in recent years and I recall raising a similar Topical Issue on the subject a number of years ago, given the difficulties at the time. Nonetheless, more progress needs to be made. The considerable duplication involved needs to be eradicated in order to make the system more efficient.

I will give an example of a case I encountered recently. Tom is a teacher who changed from one teaching post to another last September. He had to be Garda vetted in his original post and had to be vetted again to go to his new job in September. Tom also wanted to get involved in his local community. He joined the GAA club to become a coach and had to be vetted to do so. He also wanted to get involved in the local rugby club and had to be vetted again. He was a serious guy who wanted to be involved in the community so he also got involved in coaching at the local soccer club, and he had to be vetted again. Within the space of one year, he was vetted five times to do his coaching and his teaching job.

There is too much duplication in this regard, although I recognise that Garda vetting is very important. A simple response to this duplication would be if the person was Garda vetted once and then given a card which would last for, say, a two-year period. Such a process would mean that, after two years, he would be Garda vetted again, the card would be renewed and he could use that card for teaching and to go to the GAA club, soccer club or whatever organisation he wanted to go to, rather than having to go through the process time and time again.

The Minister of State might argue it is now a very easy process that can be done online, which is a fair point, but it can be very slow to go through this whole process when it is not necessary. To have the same individual Garda vetted time and again within a short space of time is inefficient. In order to make it more efficient, I believe we should introduce a card system whereby the person would be Garda vetted at the beginning of the year and this would last for a two-year period before the card was renewed. I ask the Minister to consider this option, which is reasonable and would simplify the system, not just for the Department but for everybody involved, and would avoid a lot of the duplication.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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On behalf of the Minister, Deputy Flanagan, I thank Deputy Deering for raising this important issue. As the House will be aware, Garda vetting for employment purposes is carried out by An Garda Síochána primarily in accordance with the provisions of the National Vetting Bureau (Children and Vulnerable Persons) Act 2012. In this regard, the primary focus of the Garda national vetting bureau is to seek to enhance the safety of children and vulnerable adults. This is, I am sure everyone agrees, a very important task and it must be done thoroughly and correctly.

The processing system for vetting is working well at present. The Minister is informed by the Garda authorities that the vast majority of vetting applications - in excess of 80% - are processed by the national vetting bureau in five working days or fewer. This timeframe represents a very significant improvement in turnaround times in recent years. In mid-2013 an application for Garda vetting took an average of 14 weeks. This improvement has come about as a result of an unprecedented investment by the Government and the Garda authorities in providing this service, including an increase of over 80% in staffing levels and the roll-out in 2016 of the e-vetting system. The online processing of applications has strengthened the vetting process enormously and the e-vetting service is available to all registered organisations.

In certain circumstances processing times for a given application can be longer when, for example, additional inquiries may be necessary or there are errors in the application in an individual case. Delays can also occur in other aspects of the application process which are outside of the control of the Garda authorities, for example, in the submission or return of applications by registered organisations.

I would emphasise that the vetting process demands rigorous procedures to safeguard its integrity and to maintain the highest level of confidence by the public and organisations availing of the service. We must ensure, as far as we can, the safety of children and vulnerable adults, which is paramount. I chaired the committee at the time the pre-legislative scrutiny was proceeding on the national vetting Bill. I would invite colleagues to look back at the committee report and the submissions, which make for very interesting reading. The members of the committee at the time were of the view that we needed a very rigorous process with no wriggle room at all. I am glad to say it is working well, with a turnaround time of five days. I am surprised to hear it would be onerous as it is quite a simple procedure. However, it does, as far as possible, guarantee the safety of children and vulnerable from people who are sometimes very clever indeed in manipulating and getting around systems in order to get involved with children where they should not.

Pat Deering (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister of State. I concur that the main aim is to ensure the safety of children and vulnerable adults, which nobody would deny. I made the point in my initial contribution about how quick the turnaround has become since 2013, when it was very slow and laborious. However, I repeat the point about the same person being vetted on a number of occasions during a year when doing similar jobs. I gave the example of a teacher who was doing his important day job and who also wants to get involved in the local community and sports clubs but has to get vetted again to do those jobs. I concur 110% with the importance of the safety of children and vulnerable adults, which is essential in any community.

However, the point I am making is in respect of the duplication relating to the vetting process. It is more than likely that the person involved would also be dealing with the same children. For example, a teacher could be teaching children in the morning and coaching them in the afternoon and then again at the weekend for a particular sporting organisation. My point relates to the same person being vetted three or four different times. It is irritating people, especially in schools and sporting organisations. It is essential to ensure that the people involved in working with children are held in the utmost regard across the board and that the systems are credible.

I compliment the Minister of State on the very good work he did in this regard in his previous position as Chairman of the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice and Equality. I ask him to look again at the duplication in the system in order that it might be more flexible for organisations and individuals who go about their everyday work and deal with the same people in different capacities.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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The investment in the vetting system in recent years is a clear indication that the Government is taking this matter very seriously. There has been a very significant expansion in the capacity of the vetting bureau, especially since the introduction of the e-vetting system. In 2017, the vetting bureau received 497,026 applications, that is almost half a million, which is an increase from 389,548 in 2016. The need for the allocation of resources for vetting is kept under continuous review by the garda authorities who continue to engage with registered organisations to maintain standards and promote best practice in vetting. The responsibility is with organisations to ensure that the people they engage are vetted. Each organisation is responsible.

On the question of duplication, section 12 of the 2012 Act does provide for a degree of flexibility which helps to lessen the administrative burden for relevant organisations. The Act provides for certain limited circumstances where organisations can share a single vetting disclosure where this is agreed to by the vetting applicant and also makes specific provision in respect of persons who may be employed on a recurring but non-continuous basis. Nevertheless, we must always be careful to ensure that vetting disclosures are up to date in order to take account of the most recently available information. They must be current, rigorous and certain. We cannot take any chance that somebody might slip through, and some people are very clever in trying to do that.

I will take on board what the Deputy said. It is something that has been raised before. The fact that it usually only takes five working days for the applications to be processed and returned makes it easier for everybody. It must also be borne in mind that it is the organisation that is responsible. If somebody appears with a card to an organisation, it is the organisation rather than the person with the card who is ultimately responsible. It is an important and serious topic and one about which we must be very vigilant. I thank the Deputy for his interest and for raising it this evening.